To use a rudder not?

Rudder or no rudder? Seems to be a popular question so let's see what we can come up with.

For me, I like 'em! I have a rudder with a lot of surface area and when trolling I can go straight whether pedaling or paddling with very little effort. Sure you could paddle to one side or use techniques like edging but for either they are too much attention paddling and less fishing. I'd rather spend more time fishing. Maybe I am a crappy paddler and I do need to spend more time doing it but there's always something I never get to. Another great aspect about rudders is the control you can get in a drift. Most of the time I'm able to point my bow in the direction I want which can make drifts totally stress free and I'm spending more time fishing. Good in my book.

So what's your take?

Z

I've used a couple of kayaks with rudders on them now and found that on the two I've tried, they take on a lot of water thru the cable channel.  Is this common or just a bad installation?

-Spot-

Sounds like a bad install to me. I've never really had any trouble w/ water getting in and I've always had rudder lines in all my yaks.

Z

Going with bad install on that too.  I get more water from rain/splash with a hatch open, and putting water into my transducer puck.

As previously stated, when trolling for a long time, or using a downrigger, a rudder makes life much easier.  Lifting my thigh for 3-4 continuous hours just isn't an option, or something I want to even attempt.  I'm out there to relax, not give myself uncomfortable conditions.

Depending on your hull shape, edging isn't even a real option when using a downrigger.

Another vote for install issues.  No water in my hull through the cable openings.

Outside of initial cost, are there any negatives to rudder use?

Other negatives include drag, and something else that can break. 

Edging instead of rudder use was brought up in the install thread. 

I have no SIK experience.  How well does a SOT edge compared to a touring SIK?  Hull shape is quite different. 

i have Wilderness System Pamlico 145 and a Pungo 120- the Pamlico has a rudder, which makes the boat usable in almost any condition, in windy situations without the rudder the boat weather cocks so bad there is no point in going out, the rudder really improves the tracking.  Ive used it when trollling and it does help reduce the double paddle on one side.  The Pungo does not have a rudder, but the hull design makes this boat track much better in windy situations, but i wish i could install a rudder for when im trolling because it can get old paddling on only one side, and i like the idea of being able to control the boat a little better when im fighting the big one. 

Edging instead of rudder use was brought up in the install thread. 

I have no SIK experience.  How well does a SOT edge compared to a touring SIK?  Hull shape is quite different. 

it's the same. all boats, sail boats, power boats, kayaks etc. are responsove to trim control.

I never had a rudder till I got the Adventure.  Now I know I would not want to fish without it.  I use is a ton to control my boat position relative to where my line is when drifting for bottom fish.  Being able to move the bow of the yak (into the wind or current) by just adjusting the rudder without paddling etc is awesome and makes you a more effective fishermen.  I also can't see the point of bracing while trolling for hours on end, the rudder uses so little effort and allows pinpoint control of your yak at any speed.  But this of course is coming from a fishermens perspective not a paddlers

But this of course is coming from a fishermens perspective not a paddlers

I think that's the key.  If your goal is to optimize your fishing, any aid good.

-Spot-

different strokes for different folks really. just preference.

The problem I have with rudders in sea kayaks is that they make the foot pegs "soft". In rough water, solid foot contact is a big part of stability. If my footpegs slide forward and back a foot, they don't give the support I need. In rough water, the rudder comes out of the water half the time anyways and is ineffective. Also, you end up dragging the entire kelp forest with you.

Can it help with mild-medium water trolling? yes.
Is it more effective than edging? just depends on what you are doing I guess. It's just another way to do the same thing really.

I will say that if you learn boat control with a rudder, you are worse off than learning without. You get used to steering with the rudder, and *when* it brakes, you are SOL, rather than having the rudder as an added bonus to help overcome challenging conditions.

Is one way right and one wrong? no.

Just my 2 cents.

On my T-13 I wouldn't ever bother installing a rudder on it.  
It seems to track nice and straight for me unless I am in the wind, and then it gets a mind of it's own.  
I don't like "paddling" in the wind, so I'd prolly pack it in and call it a day at this point anyway.  
If I'm trolling with it, I find that reverse is the easiest method for me, but I also just dop a leg over the opposite side than the rod,
and cause enough drag to complete my "S" in the trolling pattern.

On my Revo, it absolutely needs a rudder for "pedaling" regardless of wind or not, and excels at holding direction very nicely with it.
For "paddling" it,  it doesn't track worth a crap without the rudder down on a dead calm lake, let alone in the wind.
I don't even think it would "edge" as NANOOK refer's.  The hull just doesn't have much of a keel.  

 

All kayaks weather cock. The stern is loose and always blows down wind. Kayaks are designed on this principal. If you edge down towards the wind, the boat will hold it's line, if you edge away, the stern blows down wind and the bow up wind. It's an easy way to turn in the wind, and it's how kayaks work.....all kayaks.

also what skegs are for. heading into the wind you don't need one, crossing the wind you deploy the skeg half way, heading down wind you deploy it all the way. you are essentially adjusting the pressure between bow and stern to keep your line.

boat into the wind gives high pressure at the bow, low at stern. cross wind you need to equalize pressure, tail wind you need high pressure at the stern and low at the bow.

The problem I have with rudders in sea kayaks is that they make the foot pegs "soft". In rough water, solid foot contact is a big part of stability. If my footpegs slide forward and back a foot, they don't give the support I need. In rough water, the rudder comes out of the water half the time anyways and is ineffective. Also, you end up dragging the entire kelp forest with you.

Well, at least now I know.  I borrowed a SINK for this coming weekend, and it has a rudder installed.  I spent 30min with my head stuck in a yak trying to figure out how to stop the foot rests from moving.