Question on Ocean Salmon terms

quick terminology question-  Oregon ocean salmon regs set the minimum size for Chinook at 24" and Coho at 16".   No 'jacks' in the ocean, so I am familiar with people calling undersized ocean salmon 'shakers', which I always took to mean you "shake them off the hook to release them".

is the term "jack chinook' or 'jack coho', as related to ocean salmon fishing, just used by some people to indicate an undersized fish?

cheers, roger

quick terminology question-  Oregon ocean salmon regs set the minimum size for Chinook at 24" and Coho at 16".   No 'jacks' in the ocean, so I am familiar with people calling undersized ocean salmon 'shakers', which I always took to mean you "shake them off the hook to release them".

is the term "jack chinook' or 'jack coho', as related to ocean salmon fishing, just used by some people to indicate an undersized fish?

cheers, roger

Presumably.  I've never heard "jack" used for anything other than an immature king.  Who calls small coho "jacks'?  I sometimes hear them euphemistically called "trout", but never jacks.

The term is used because in some specific areas you can keep under size salmon or “jacks” I’m a bit busy today but if anyone wants a more clear definition I’ll hit my buddy Steve up and will get a “Pmmpete” sized paragraph as a text reply that I can copy and paste here. That should go into great detail as only Pete can and a few others can.

I would think bay or river would be a more appropriate place to use the term jack chinook.  In the ocean, I guess you don’t know if they are returning even if it’s near shore.  I’ll use I undersize going forward,

I'd always heard them called shakers, too, roger, and for the same reason you gave.

Don't they have to hit the rivers on a spawning run to be jacks?  I thought jacks were, by definition, an immature male coming in to spawn.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Oh, Google!  Google!  Why yes, I was right.

So yes, it seems to me that a bunch of landlubbers are confused when they catch a shaker and call it a jack.

I've heard of jack and mini jack coho re. fish in rivers. Also, I've heard small coho referred to as "feeders" in the ocean. Not sure how universal that is.

Does anyone call a big Chinook a "splitter"? The commercial guys in my hometown used that term.

I'd always heard them called shakers, too, roger, and for the same reason you gave.

Don't they have to hit the rivers on a spawning run to be jacks?  I thought jacks were, by definition, and immature male coming in to spawn.

that is my understanding of the salmon life cycle terminology, a 'jack' is a salmon that leaves the ocean a year early (or more in the case of some chinook runs) as it matures and participates in spawning.  while in the ocean, I do not believe the term "jack" is applicable.  but I have seen "jack chinook" used enough with regard to ocean chinook that I wondered if I had missed something.

cheers, roger

A jack is a precocious male salmon that returns to spawn after living in the ocean for less than a year.  It applies to both Chinook and coho (coho jacks are anywhere from 12 to 20 inches).  Unless the fish is already coloring up, an 18 inch feeder Chinook caught in the ocean could be anything: a future jack/jill, or a fish in its first year of a 5-salt cycle.

So yeah, correct terms for ocean-caught salmon that are sub-legal would be "undersized" or "shaker".  Jacks/jills only comes into play when they enter the rivers.

Almost, but not quite.  A jack Chinook typically returns one year earlier than the females of the same spawn year.  A jack Coho typically returns after a single year at sea.

I don't think there's a term "jill" salmon.  Never heard of it and I can't find it trolling through Google.  A Chinook or Coho shorter than 15 inches is called a trout in bays and estuaries in the regulations, but the regulations aren't terribly clear on what the minimum size is for a "trout" in the marine zone...  8 inches, I'm guessing.

Almost, but not quite.  A jack Chinook typically returns one year earlier than the females of the same spawn year.  A jack Coho typically returns after a single year at sea.

I don't think there's a term "jill" salmon.  Never heard of it and I can't find it trolling through Google.  A Chinook or Coho shorter than 15 inches is called a trout in bays and estuaries in the regulations, but the regulations aren't terribly clear on what the minimum size is for a "trout" in the marine zone...  8 inches, I'm guessing.

Okay.  If we're going to get technical about this, we need to clean up your definition of the term "jack".

Jacks are sexually mature male salmon representing an age group younger than the youngest females in the population.  Your definition insinuates that a jack could be a 4-year-old fish from a 5-year-old cohort, which is misleading.  Jacks (and mature parr) reflect the alternative pathways to reproductive success in males: aggressive competition and sneaking.

Yes, jills is an actual term and it's used in fisheries science.  Just replace "male" with "female" in the above definition and you have a jill.  But they're much more rare than jacks.  This is because the reasons behind a male returning as a jack (competition and sneaking) do not apply to a female salmon.  To maximize spawning success, a female wants to maximize its chances for egg production and improve its potential for nest defense (ie, be large).  Thus, there is little incentive for a female salmon to return to the river at a smaller size.

I've seen jills first-hand: friend of mine caught one on the lower Klamath River back in 2011.  Looked exactly like the mess of jacks we were cleaning, except she had the cutest little mature roe skeins.


Quinn, T.P. 2005.  The Behavior and Ecology of Pacific Salmon and Trout.  American Fisheries Society, University of Washington Press.  378 pp.
Moyle, P.B.  2002.  Inland Fishes of California.  University of California Press.  517 pp.

How about Huge, Eatable and Tossembacker?

Minnowmagnet and Mursestrong can use "GBFS" for their pigs!

Almost, but not quite.  A jack Chinook typically returns one year earlier than the females of the same spawn year.  A jack Coho typically returns after a single year at sea.

I don't think there's a term "jill" salmon.  Never heard of it and I can't find it trolling through Google.  A Chinook or Coho shorter than 15 inches is called a trout in bays and estuaries in the regulations, but the regulations aren't terribly clear on what the minimum size is for a "trout" in the marine zone...  8 inches, I'm guessing.

Okay.  If we're going to get technical about this, we need to clean up your definition of the term "jack".

Jacks are sexually mature male salmon representing an age group younger than the youngest females in the population.  Your definition insinuates that a jack could be a 4-year-old fish from a 5-year-old cohort, which is misleading.  Jacks (and mature parr) reflect the alternative pathways to reproductive success in males: aggressive competition and sneaking.

Yes, jills is an actual term and it's used in fisheries science.  Just replace "male" with "female" in the above definition and you have a jill.  But they're much more rare than jacks.  This is because the reasons behind a male returning as a jack (competition and sneaking) do not apply to a female salmon.  To maximize spawning success, a female wants to maximize its chances for egg production and improve its potential for nest defense (ie, be large).  Thus, there is little incentive for a female salmon to return to the river at a smaller size.

I've seen jills first-hand: friend of mine caught one on the lower Klamath River back in 2011.  Looked exactly like the mess of jacks we were cleaning, except she had the cutest little mature roe skeins.


Quinn, T.P. 2005.  The Behavior and Ecology of Pacific Salmon and Trout.  American Fisheries Society, University of Washington Press.  378 pp.
Moyle, P.B.  2002.  Inland Fishes of California.  University of California Press.  517 pp.

I caught what I called a "jane" coho on Tahkenitch last November, 19.5" long, didn't realize it was a female until I cut in to return the entrails to the lake and there were small egg skeins developing.