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Topic: About to pull the trigger on Pescador Pilot. Any reason not to?  (Read 3719 times)

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JasonM

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  • Date Registered: Jun 2017
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Even though I've just gotten started into kayak fishing compared to many on this forum, I'm starting to believe that it's better to go ahead and upgrade kayaks now instead of putting more time and money into my current kayak, a Third Coast Avalon 120. It's similar to the older Tarpon 120 design, and actually may be made from the old Tarpon 120 molds.  Here's a brief list of requirements.
  • The biggest upgrade that I want is a pedal drive, and it has to go in reverse. If not for that, I'd probably keep the kayak that I have now.
  • I want to continue to cartop whatever I buy, which means that I need to keep the weight down. My current kayak is 68lbs with nothing extra on it, and I'd like to stay relatively close to the same weight, not counting the pedal drive mechanism. The Pescador Pilot is supposedly 74lbs without the drive and 85lbs with it, which is acceptable.
  • I want to be able to easily use my fish finder (Lowrance Hook 4) without having the transducer on an arm sticking over the side of the kayak or needing to be installed and removed every time I use the kayak, and I want the wires and battery to be easily accessed while on the water but covered and out of the way unless I want to get to them.
  • I want a raised seat that's much more comfortable for multiple hours of fishing than the one that I have now that is sitting on the plastic of the kayak.
  • I'd like for the kayak to be stable enough to stand up in occasionally, but don't know how often I'll stand and fish since I have only had my current kayak that is a narrower/faster design.
  • It has to have a rudder that can easily retract up and out of the way. The way that I currently load my kayak and in lots of other situations results in the keel being a pivot point with the bow of the kayak is lifted up.
  • I also don't want to spend $2500+ on a kayak that I'll have to invest a lot more money into to make it fishing ready.
All of that is leading me to the Pescador Pilot 12.0 kayak, which seems to fit the bill on all of that with an MSRP of $1799 and deals to be had near the end of the season here for a couple hundred less. That kayak hasn't been without its problems, though.
  • There have been problems with the prop slipping on the shaft, the drive popping up over the pin that holds it down, and the drive making noise in the early production kayaks. All reports that I can find online say that Perception fixed the prop and pin issues, and anyone who still has drive noise issues that has tried just adding more fluid to the drive made the drive noise issue go away.
  • The rudder cables have also often needed adjustment, and some have even replaced them with different cables altogether. That's not unique to that kayak, though, and is the same on most other mechanisms where cables like that are utilized, including even high-end bicycles where I'm accustomed to them.
  • The "rod holders" are effectively useless and I consider them places to install these flush mount rod holders instead.
  • There's currently no easy way to replace the pedal drive with a trolling motor like there is with some other brands. I don't currently have any desire to buy a trolling motor and larger battery, but a few months ago I thought I'd be fine without a pedal drive.
  • The seat on the Pescador Pilot adjusts forward and backward to get the right distance from the pedals, but only has one height where many other higher-end kayaks have seats with adjustable heights. The seat will be a nice upgrade from what I have now, but how much am I going to hate not having multiple heights later?
Has anyone else heard of anything else I should be concerned about with that kayak, or know of a reason I should hold off on buying? I know it's the end of the kayaking season for most people and the new models will be coming out soon. I called Perception and asked them about any improvements coming in 2018. The customer service person said that they wouldn't be announcing any new models for another few weeks, but he wasn't aware of any changes to the Pescador Pilot kayak for the 2018 model year. I also scoured YouTube and most of the major kayak fishing sites/forums for content from ICAST 2017 and don't see any companies showing off prototypes of new models for 2018 that fit my requirements.

If I don't buy a new kayak within the next few weeks, I'll probably hold off until January when I can get work to reimburse me part of the cost of the kayak as "fitness equipment" instead of having a gym membership. That will be a long time to wait, having to fight wind/current with both hands (less efficient than my legs) instead of fishing, though...  ::)

Thanks in advance for any guidance you might be able to share here.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 10:36:56 PM by JasonM »


DWB123

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Haha. LOVE the timing. It's like you wrote the ad for the new hobie yourself, just announced today:

https://www.hobie.com/kayaks/mirage-compass/

and

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=19778.msg210421;topicseen#new


JasonM

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Nope. I have already considered the Compass. It's a cheaper version of a Hobie, but still way too expensive for what it is. The Mirage Drive in that one is the older non-180 drive. It won't go in reverse. It fails the first, and most important, requirement. It basically doesn't have any covered storage for battery/wires. The rudder looks to not be easily lowered/raised, only that it "automatically kicks up" if you hit something. I would rather be able to raise it before I hit something. :)


gnomodom

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The closest pedal craft that has a similar hull design and size would be a revo 13. I went from a Thresher 140 to a Revo 13, and I'm really happy. It doesn't have the built-in rigging that the Radar and Pescador Pilot have, but it is a faster hull, and a quality hobie product. I did have a really close look at the Pilot at a West Marine, and it looked fine, but it isn't a comparably sleek craft to a Tarpon.

I do still wonder if I would've liked a Radar, but I think the closest Wildy dealer to demo is Next Adventure in Portland.

I can't stress this enough, go try out the boat you're thinking of getting, it is an investment in your time. I would also look at the Native Slayer Propel as possibly a higher quality option. Gig Harbor has Native and Hobies to try out as well. If your budget is basically Pilot or nothing, maybe you can do something like look at a Radar, and then upgrade it to the wildy pedals next. It still isn't as fast of a hull as a Tarpon / Thresher, or Revo, but you probably will have better quality in the geared parts.


JasonM

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Thanks, Gnomodon.

I generally really like the Wilderness Systems products and I like the ability to add a pedal drive or motor to the kayak, but the Radar 115 is 85 lbs without a drive unit. I do like their pedal drive unit, possibly better than the Perception Pilot drive unit, but adding 12 lbs for the drive on top of the 85 lbs for the kayak would have a total weight of 97 lbs. I might be able to deal with the price increase if not for the much heavier weight, but both together effectively ruled that one out. I like the ATAK 120 better than the Radar. It's effectively the same weight and not that much more expensive. It's just heavier than I want, though, in addition to being expensive.

The Native Slayer Propel 10 is a little too short for my liking and the 13 is about 20 lbs too heavy, and both have the rudder that doesn't retract so would be subject to damage. I also looked them over at Cabelas and they definitely weren't for me.

I have a kayak now that has a sleek Tarpon-esque hull design and it does move through the water well, but I want a pedal drive and more stability. I considered trying to track down a used Revo or Outback. I really like that Vantage seat. The Revo is a bit narrower/less stable that I'd like. If Hobie could make the Outback about 10 lbs lighter, it would be on the short list also. Even without tracks, it has flat surfaces in most of the right places and even a recess where I'd put tracks on the sides. That Outback price tag is just crazy, though, and any used ones available now are either pre-MirageDrive 180 or are very close to the price of new.

<warning: slight detour from the main topic coming>
I think the other brands having pedal drives with reverse at much lower prices than Hobie are going to help convince Hobie to lower their prices. The Compass is a step in the right direction, but only a tiny one. If they had brought out the Compass with the MirageDrive 180 instead of the old design, I think it would be a top seller regardless of the lack of some other key fishing kayak features. It has the Hobie brand on it, which can make up for a lot. It's like the Sportster from Harley-Davidson. It lets people who want to own the Hobie brand do so for a lower price. The lack of reverse, though, is a complete deal-breaker for me and I suspect it will be for most who fish primarily in lakes and rivers.

For all of the pedal/motor drive kayaks, a lot of the expense in R&D/manufacturing and therefore the price, is the drive unit. That's clear due to some of the kayaks themselves being cheaper than drive units. They probably should be, since the kayaks themselves are just big pieces of plastic. I think Hobie basically defined the pedal drive kayak market and had it cornered until recently, so they could do incremental changes (commonly referred to as "bold new graphics" in some industries) and still sell tons of kayaks. Unfortunately, the industry has caught up and passed them in some ways, and they responded with the MirageDrive 180. I'm a fan of it and the price (just over $800 for the drive alone) is cheaper than some of the other brand pedal drive units. I'm really hoping that Hobie gets back in the game on the kayaks themselves, though. Technology has changed dramatically, and kayaks can now be made more efficiently, with more precise molding and less expense.

I freely admit that I'd pay at least a couple hundred more bucks for a kayak exactly like the Pescador Pilot with the Hobie name on it and a MirageDrive 180 in it. I'm not sure how long that perception in the market will last, though. Hobie reminds me of Apple and the iPhone. There are going to be fans of the brand that will buy only products from both Hobie and Apple for years to come. The challengers are coming, though, and they're innovating faster than the historic market leaders. Some of those challengers are brands with decades of quality products, but they're just now venturing into pedal and power drive kayaks. Hobie needs to get it in gear, and seeing them win an ICAST best product award or two in the next couple of years would be great. They have the experience. Hopefully the industry is giving them the motivation.
<end detour>

Thanks again for the feedback on this. Please keep it coming. :)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 07:07:34 PM by JasonM »


gnomodom

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I agree about comparing Hobie and iPhones, never thought about it, but definitely true. To be perfectly honest, if my Revo had a slightly deeper rear tankwell, and built in tracks in front of the rod holders, as well as along the footwells, it would be basically perfect.

I added tracks along the gunwales by the foot holds, and one at the far back. I'll add two more 8" in front of the rod holders to just get some flexibility depending on the type of fishing I'm doing.

I really can't recommend trying out a revo 13 out at Gig Harbor watersports. They're great folks, and have demo days. As far as necessary upgrades, if you already have gear track mounts, just get a few of those and the turbo fins, and you'll fly. The boat is already quite fast with the stock fins. I also have the upgraded rudder as well, but I don't think it is as important as the turbo fins. I'm also a big guy, 6'2" and around 250lbs. I often will load up another 20-30 lbs of crap into the boat and it has been great for me. I think the Pilot would be a great flatwater boat. The revo is a little tippy, but it is a lot more stable than people give it credit. Just gotta trust the boat and your understanding of it.  It is really great at punching through waves with its sharp hull.


Mojo Jojo

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I love my iPhone hade it over two years and haven't broke it yet..... kinda like my two Native Propels one Slayer 13and one Mariner 12.5 had the Mariner for a few years and the Slayer this year both used hard before i got them and still going strong, rudder damage is only going to happen if you try to drag one bye the bow or just plain abuse it, cables now that's another story all together  ::)   But I wouldn't rule out a Mariner on the rudder not folding up. I can car top one as well.



Shannon
2013 Jackson Big Tuna "Aircraft Carrier"
2011 Native Mariner Propel "My pickup truck"
2015 Native Slayer Propel "TLW's ride"
20?? Cobra Fish-N-Dive “10yo grandson’s”
20?? Emotion Sparky “5 yr old granddaughter’s”


JasonM

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Thanks again to everyone who replied on this thread and who has helped with all of my other newbie questions so far. I'm enjoying kayak fishing enough to spend a bit more money on it than I spent on my intro kayak a few months ago.

West Marine had the Pescador Pilot on sale for $1529 online and I decided to go ahead and grab one there. It should be delivered to the local West Marine store next week, and I am going to inspect it thoroughly before I take it home. I could have gotten it for a bit cheaper online delivered to my house, but I decided to get it from West Marine since I can inspect it before I leave with it and I can return it if I'm not happy with it.

I wish Perception made the Pescador Pilot with the blue body and orange trim instead of yellow, as I really like the blue/orange combo and I also went to Auburn University in Alabama. Unfortunately, they make it with the green camo kayak body and orange trim or the blue camo kayak body and yellow trim, but not blue with orange. Thankfully, it looks like swapping yellow to orange will take four pieces of rail and a bit of bungee cord, so I'll add that to my "to do" list along with adding the flush mount rod holders and a few other things. I might actually replace the plastic rails with aluminum rails instead of just plastic rails of a different color. I'm much more of a "function over form" person, which I guess is typical of engineers.


JasonM

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I have to say that I've done a fair amount of tweaking on the new Pescador Pilot. I'm loving the design, especially for the price, even if the assembly of it was done terribly. Here are a couple pictures from tonight, with me playing fishing guide for my 13 and 11-year-old daughters. I had the 13-year-old in the rear tankwell and the 11-year-old in the front. They both caught multiple trout and had a great time. They keep asking when we can all go again.  ;D





xiaolu

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I have to say that I've done a fair amount of tweaking on the new Pescador Pilot. I'm loving the design, especially for the price, even if the assembly of it was done terribly. Here are a couple pictures from tonight, with me playing fishing guide for my 13 and 11-year-old daughters. I had the 13-year-old in the rear tankwell and the 11-year-old in the front. They both caught multiple trout and had a great time. They keep asking when we can all go again.  ;D




Very nice, and congrats to you getting this new kayak, and I am sure you and your daughters will enjoy fishing on this new 'toy' for years to come!


Mark Collett

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   I strongly suggest you nurture those girls wanting to go fishing with you. They will love it and you will all be making memories for life. Make it happen--- for all of you.
Life is short---live it tall.

Be kinder than necessary--- everyone is fighting some kind of battle.

Sailors may be struck down at any time, in calm or in storm, but the sea does not do it for hate or spite.
She has no wrath to vent. Nor does she have a hand in kindness to extend.
She is merely there, immense, powerful, and indifferent


gnomodom

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Big smiling faces. I predict future kayak purchases. Congrats on the successful family trip. Like I said, I was strongly considering this kayak. I still might (try) swap my wife's paddle Jackson for one of these some time in the future. If anything so I can take it out on flat, freshwater trips. :D

The wife doesn't fish, and likes paddling though. That may change since she is interested in crabbing and crawfish tho.

Congrats again. I wouldn't have gotten into the sport if my father didn't take me on handlining bottom fish, and being a passenger on deep sea fishing trips when I was tiny.


JasonM

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Big smiling faces. I predict future kayak purchases. Congrats on the successful family trip. Like I said, I was strongly considering this kayak. I still might (try) swap my wife's paddle Jackson for one of these some time in the future. If anything so I can take it out on flat, freshwater trips. :D
The Pescador Pilots are really hard to find in stock in western Washington, so let me know if you want to check it out and try it out sometime. I have had to tweak a LOT of things on this kayak to make it work really well, or more specifically in a few cases, how I want it to work. I'm still in test-and-tweak mode, where I make a list of things I want to tweak/change every trip out and then work through them later. I still think the design is really great, and most of the issues that I have found are issues with assembly, not manufacturing.


 

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