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Topic: Hydrus versus Goretex?  (Read 8461 times)

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pmmpete

  • Sturgeon
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  • Location: Missoula, Montana
  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 1989
How does the durability, waterproofness, and breathability of Kokatat's Hydrus fabric compare to Goretex?  I've always used Goretex, but am wondering if the Hydrus fabric is worth considering.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:34:24 PM by pmmpete »


RoxnDox

  • Salmon
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  • Location: Gig Harbor, WA
  • Date Registered: Sep 2013
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Pete, these guys rent, sell, and use a pretty good variety of suits, and they've got quite a FAQ list on it:

https://www.kayakacademy.com/pages/dry-suit-faq-frequently-asked-questions-about-drysuits#ten

Last paragraph answers you I'd say

"There's only a few non-Gore-Tex dry suits that we've found that worked nearly as well as a Gore-tex dry suit. They include the new Hydrus 3L fabric dry suits by Kokatat and the latest Stohlquist and IR's suits. Hydrus 3L is a new waterproof/breathable fabric that Kokatat developed and tested. Kokatat introduced these suits in 2006. With these suits you can paddle all day and only have a little bit of dampness from perspiration inside the suit and swim and not get soaked. There're not as durable or breathable as Gore-Tex, but for people who don't sweat a lot and aren't wearing their suit than often they do the job. We've field tested these Hydrus 3L suits a long time now and can testify that they live up to Kokatat's high standards for waterproof integrity and are second only to Gore-tex (in our experience) for breathability. And Kokatat leak tests every one of these suits before they leave the factory. Maybe you'll never swim in your dry suit, maybe you'll never need to bivouac in it, maybe you'll never wear it as rain gear at camp, but isn't it nice to know you could? And now you don't have to sacrifice quality to save money on a non-Gore-Tex waterproof/breathable dry suit, check out the Kokatat Hydrus 3L dry suits available from the Kayak Academy."


Jim
Junk Jigs "BEST USE OF ACTUAL JUNK" category - "That tape should have been a prized possession and not junk. That will be a collectors item in 30 years!” & “There sure is a lot of junk in there.”


JasonM

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That last paragraph is also me. I'm hoping to head down to Kayak Academy sometime next week to check out the drysuits and get measured. I'm 6' tall and 155lbs, with a short torso and long arms/legs. I'm fairly certain that no standard sizes will fit, so I want to get measured by an expert before I drop $600+ on a drysuit. I also want to see the different suits in person, and I think Kayak Academy is the only place within driving distance that I can do that.


Tinker

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The tests for how waterproof and breathable any fabric may be are not standardized and are done either by the manufacturer or an independent lab, so finding out, quantitatively, how breathable a fabric is and how waterproof it may be compared to other fabrics is difficult.

"Hydrostatic head" indicates a material’s waterproofness by measuring how tall a 1-inch square column of water must be, in millimeters, before the fabric leaks.  The higher the number, the more water resistant the fabric.

"Moisture Vapor Transmission Rate" (MVTR) is one indication of breathability.  It's a measurement of the rate at which water vapor moves through a fabric in grams per 24-hours.  The higher the number, the more water vapor is transferred.

"Resistance to Evaporative Heat Transfer" (RET) is another indication of how breathable the fabric is.  The lower the number, the more breathable the fabric will be during strenuous activities.

"Durability" can either be how well the fabric layers resist wear, or it can mean how well the membrane itself resists oils and perspiration.  Oils and perspiration clog the micro-porous surface and reduce both water resistance and breathability. PTFE membranes are more resistant to oils and clean more thoroughly than the polyurethane membranes. 

Testing by independent labs, Gore-Tex 3-layer fabrics have a hydrostatic head rating >28,000, an MVTR rating >24,000, and a RET rating <6 before and after one cleaning.  I can't find any published numbers for Hydrus 3L.

Kokatat's Hydrus 3L products are extremely well made and mine have never leaked at the seams.  I have noticed my butt gets damp (almost wet) after sitting on a hard, wet surface - an unpadded drift boat seat - for six hours when wearing Hydrus 3L paddling pants.  YMMV.

A lot of information without being much help...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 03:26:12 AM by Tinker »
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


pmmpete

  • Sturgeon
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  • Location: Missoula, Montana
  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
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Kokatat's Hydrus 3L products are extremely well made and mine have never leaked at the seams.  I have noticed my butt gets damp (almost wet) after sitting on a hard, wet surface - an unpadded drift boat seat - for six hours when wearing Hydrus 3L paddling pants.  YMMV.

A lot of information without being much help...
Tinker, your post was all informative, but its next-to-last paragraph contains exactly the kind of user experience I was looking for.  I have spent many six hour days sitting on a hard, wet surface - my kayak seat -  for six or more hours while wearing my very-high-mileage Kokotat Meridian Goretex dry suit, and my butt doesn't get wet.


Tinker

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I'm glad I said anything useful, Peter.
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


RoxnDox

  • Salmon
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  • Location: Gig Harbor, WA
  • Date Registered: Sep 2013
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It was nice to have this discussion come up now.  I got the ok from SWMBO to spend what I needed to spend on a dry suit if that was what I wanted.  While she was at a conference in Seattle today, I went over to Northwest Outdoor Center on Lake Union and tried on a couple of Kokatats (Goretex Meridian and Front-entry models) to see if the standard sizing would work.  Turns out the XL is just about perfect, except it needs the Large socks instead of the Medium standard with an XL suit.  Ties in the other thread about cold feet, too 😄. Mine get cold easy and require more sock space!

So it’s on order and will be sent in maybe 5 wks.  Looking forward to finally having complete protection.  I like supporting an actual store where I can go try things on talk to folks who have used the stuff themselves...

Jim
Junk Jigs "BEST USE OF ACTUAL JUNK" category - "That tape should have been a prized possession and not junk. That will be a collectors item in 30 years!” & “There sure is a lot of junk in there.”


craig

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Another thing to consider is the lifetime warranty on Kokatat's Goretex suits.  I bought one in February 2008.  I sent it in twice for hole patching and pressure testing. That second time was in June 2016.  Kokatat said it had delaminated and told me to pick out a new one for free.  So technically, I have gotten two Goretex suits for $500 each if you look at 8 years of hard use fishing as being a reasonable amount of time for a suit to last. I felt it was reasonable.  I recently picked up a pretty much "like new" Kokatat Goretex Meridian off Craig's list for $290 in XL.  It is my winter drysuit.  I can wear a nice thick fleece parka under it and it still has that same warranty!


Jrob

  • Herring
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  • Date Registered: Aug 2016
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I second the Kokatat experience!  I bought a hydrus supernova paddling suit, and loved it (I am 6'3", 300 lb, and the XXL fit very well).  It was comfortable, waterproof, and pretty breathable.  I love the zipper in the front for nature calls or to retrieve the car keys I left in my pocket on accident while suiting up.
Unfortunately I put some holes in the foot portion (tripped while suiting up in sharp gravel- my fault).  I sent the suit in for servicing to kokotat ($35).  They said there was a warranty issue,  offered me a new suit or credit the value of the suit for an upgrade.  I paid $250 and got a brand new goretex supernova angler.  I love it even more.  It is somehow more comfortable (I think due to less thick of layers vs the hydrus), more breathable, and of course completely waterproof 

Definitely go with Kokatat, you will get high quality and amazing customer service.
I recommend just getting the goretex version.  You will never regret the $250 after you buy it.
I recommend the paddling suit version with the neoprene neck gasket.  But I don't go very far offshore.  Neoprene is much more comfortable.
If you settle with the Hydrus, you will still love it, as I loved mine.


Zach.Dennis

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I recently picked up a pretty much "like new" Kokatat Goretex Meridian off Craig's list for $290 in XL.  It is my winter drysuit.  I can wear a nice thick fleece parka under it and it still has that same warranty!

Hey Craig,

Was there any stipulations for the Craigslist warrant?  I am looking to get a used suit in the future but was worried about the warranty.  I don't expect to buy one that has been altered but i am surprised that Kokatat honors a warranty if you were not the registered owner on the warranty card.
2021 1st Place ORC
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Captain Redbeard

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I have no doubt that the Goretex suits are nicer than the Hydrus suits. But I've had zero materials problems with my Hydrus suit. I've never had "wet butt" or any delamination.


ballardbrad

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  • Kayak Fishing Washington
  • Location: Ballard, WA
  • Date Registered: Aug 2010
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I own both.  I got the Kokatat Hydrus Angler Suit when it first came out.  Very comfortable, easy to get in and out of and for the most part it kept me warm and dry.  After 5 years of continuous wear (fishing 3 to 5 days a week), I have yet to find a hole or leak.  I've washed it in Tech Wash a handful of times for cleaning.  I do find that in our Seattle winters the material will let some water in during constant down pours. 

I have had the Goretex Angler for almost a year now. If you can afford a couple hundred bucks more, it's well worth it.  Very much like the Hydrus but keeps you warm and comfortable.  My biggest struggle with the Hydrus is I always have cold feet .  Even with layered socks and trying out several different booties by different manufacturers.  Love the Goretex for foot warmth.  Kokatat makes great products and stands behind them 100%.

As for boots, I love the NRS Boundary Shoe/Boot.  By far the warmest and most comfortable boot I've tried.


Trident 13

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I mentioned this in another post, and have no affiliation, but these pants are REALLY warm and kept me comfortable wading off Golden Garden casting when the wind/current was a bit stout recently.  I'm going to pick up a pair of fleece socks, but these pants (run small) were really comfortable.  I wear a 36/30 and the XXL was just right (ok, snug) but stretched well and I am sure I can wear them under the Gortex kokatak while paddling.  Warm legs equaled warm feet at least for me even will mostly standing. 
Not getting any water in was a tribute to Kokatak paddle pants value (wearing tennis shoes) but how warm my legs stayed was really impressive.  Pockets could be bigger but held zip locked bags with my phone, keys and billfold.  I've ordered a second pair to slide into after a paddle for the drive home, but after wading for several hours, I pulled the paddle pants off, feet were dry as were the fleece pants and I drove home in them.  $30 was well spent and I'll be testing them over T-day weekend at Silver Lake Friday and then surf-perch fishing off Ocean Park Saturday if the waves let up just a bit. I was really pleasantly surprised after that outing.


pmmpete

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  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 1989
I mentioned this in another post, and have no affiliation, but these pants are REALLY warm and kept me comfortable wading off Golden Garden casting when the wind/current was a bit stout recently.  I'm going to pick up a pair of fleece socks, but these pants (run small) were really comfortable.  I wear a 36/30 and the XXL was just right (ok, snug) but stretched well and I am sure I can wear them under the Gortex kokatak while paddling.  Warm legs equaled warm feet at least for me even will mostly standing. 
Not getting any water in was a tribute to Kokatak paddle pants value (wearing tennis shoes) but how warm my legs stayed was really impressive.  Pockets could be bigger but held zip locked bags with my phone, keys and billfold.  I've ordered a second pair to slide into after a paddle for the drive home, but after wading for several hours, I pulled the paddle pants off, feet were dry as were the fleece pants and I drove home in them.  $30 was well spent and I'll be testing them over T-day weekend at Silver Lake Friday and then surf-perch fishing off Ocean Park Saturday if the waves let up just a bit. I was really pleasantly surprised after that outing.

I have three pairs of pile pants which I use to layer up under my drysuits when kayak fishing or snorkeling and spearfishing, and for layering up under my ski bibs when ice fishing.  But I can see advantages to having a shell over the pile.  For $35, I think I'll pick up a pair.  Thanks for the tip that they run small.  I wear 38/30 pants, and it sounds like I need the XXL size.  Were it not for your tip, it sounds like I would have ordered a smaller size, and found them to be way too tight.


pmmpete

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After considering the helpful advice provided by various people, I decided to stick with Goretex.  I just ordered a Kokatat Meridian Goretex dry suit.