NorthWest Kayak Anglers

Kayak Fishing => Drillin' & Cuttin' => Topic started by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 08:01:23 AM

Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 08:01:23 AM
How to make a watertight battery box

Step 1, collect all the parts you'll need:

Watertight box
Di-electric grease
Marine Goop
Marine Plug
Female slide connectors
In-line fuse (3 amp)
Negative wire
Battery
Liquid electrical tape (might be needed depending on your setup)
Gardening Pad (you can also use this for your transducer mount)

(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154509.jpeg)


Step 2:

Put your battery in the box and figure out how best to fit things.  Don't start cutting right away, or you risk not having room.
Drill a hole that will fit your plug.  I recommend a smaller plug, but this is all I could find at a decent price (trolling motor plug
Once your hole is drilled, attach the wires to plug and add female connectors
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154616-3488901.jpeg)

Step 3:

Connect your fishfinder to the male side of the plug.  Connect your battery and the fishfinder, and make sure they work.  Once you're sure you've got a good connection, put Marine goop around the plug and fasten it down.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154627-34902295.jpeg)

Step 4:

Cut foam to fit in and keep the battery snug.  You don't want it slamming around inside the box.  It could knock your plug loose or even break your box.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154639-34911614.jpeg)

Finished Product:

(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154701-34931701.jpeg)

(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/690-290212154650-34921671.jpeg)

I highly recommend coating ALL exposed electrical connections with dielectric grease.  If you get the small tube, you can fit the prongs of your fishfinder connections inside the tube and get a complete coating.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on February 29, 2012, 08:20:14 AM
Very nice.

Or, for your new Revo you could use the rear hatch bucket.

http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Battery.Transducer.Hull/HMR.Battery.Transducer.html (http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Battery.Transducer.Hull/HMR.Battery.Transducer.html)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Ling Banger on February 29, 2012, 09:11:03 AM
After I got mine done, I wish I would have left the lead from the box a little longer. Where I have it mounted on my T-13, I have to reach way in the front hatch to get access the plug.

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: OlySpec on February 29, 2012, 09:13:21 AM
Way cool.  I plan to do the same on my PA.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: firebunkers23 on February 29, 2012, 09:18:13 AM
How to make a watertight battery box

Step 1, collect all the parts you'll need:

Watertight box
 Lee what brand box did you buy and what size is it how much did it cost and were did you pick it up at? I tried to read it from your picture but I cant quite see it.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on February 29, 2012, 09:19:39 AM
... Where I have it mounted on my T-13, I have to reach way in the front hatch to get access the plug.

Did you get a battery bag with your T13?  It hangs in the bow, and should have come with the boat. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Ling Banger on February 29, 2012, 09:33:26 AM
... Where I have it mounted on my T-13, I have to reach way in the front hatch to get access the plug.

Did you get a battery bag with your T13?  It hangs in the bow, and should have come with the boat. 

The T-13 submarines through rough water, so I thought I'd move the weight mid yak. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 09:34:39 AM

 Lee what brand box did you buy and what size is it how much did it cost and were did you pick it up at? I tried to read it from your picture but I cant quite see it.

It's just the ghetto brand they sell at WalMart.  $8 or $9 bucks.  You can use any waterproof box, just make sure your battery and plug will fit inside.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ndogg on February 29, 2012, 09:56:47 AM
I did something very similar except that I used a water tight fitting through my dry box, and a 2 prong trailer harness to connect my battery to the fish finder. 
I also keep a few spare fuses and a small tube of dielectric grease in the batter box, just in case I need it. 

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 10:52:58 AM
The plug shown is watertight.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on February 29, 2012, 10:56:28 AM
I've always wondered why you need a waterproof box for a SEALED Lead Acid battery.   ???

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: bsteves on February 29, 2012, 10:58:17 AM
I've always wondered why you need a waterproof box for a SEALED Lead Acid battery.   ???

-Allen

I think the intention is to protect the otherwise exposed connections.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 11:00:10 AM
1.  Protect the battery and connections from exposure or damage
2.  You don't need to use dielectric grease inside the box, and that crap gets messy on female slide connectors
3.  Easy, quick-connect, for rigging prior to launch and putting things away after fishing
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on February 29, 2012, 11:08:01 AM
I used to use a drybag for the battery.  Never had any issue with it needing physical protection.

Nowadays, depending on what kayak I'm in, the battery just lies on the floor of the kayak, no protection whatsoever.  Or it is in am OK battery bag hanging in the nose, which is definitely not waterproof although it is up and off the floor.  The batter is no worse for the wear.  I haven't seen any corrosion on the terminals that I'm aware of.  The only place I see a problem is that I do get corrosion that creeps up the wire.  Every year or year and a half, I need to trim back ~2 inches of wire otherwise the corrosion results in too much resistance to the point that the FF doesn't run.

I don't use dielectric grease on the battery side, hmmm, perhaps I should.  I only use dielectric grease on the FF connections. because it's a PITA to have to change the pins in a FF if they corrode.

It's pretty easy to connect/disconnect to the 2 terminals directly.

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: goldendog on February 29, 2012, 11:48:46 AM
Since the battery is already sealed, I saw no reason to do anything other than seal up the connections with marine goop. Going on 4 years now without any problems! I did at one time have a fuse in line. I ended up removing it because it wasn't really needed, and could present a corrosion problem.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on February 29, 2012, 12:08:52 PM
Where do you have your fuse?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: fishnut on February 29, 2012, 02:47:40 PM
My syst is almost exactly like Lee's. Wallyworld waterproof box(cheap)with a hole to accomodate the plug in(sealed) and the in-line fuse is in the box with the battery.
Extra foam pieces to keep the battery secure in the box and also spare fuses and dialectic grease housed in there also. Works great. Too lazy to take a pic. Thanks Lee. I see you all have Cabelas 12 volt batteries. I have both a Powersonic and a Cabelas in case I need to trade out batteries on an extended trip with no way of recharging. Glad to see Cabelas is popular as I start working for them this Friday at the new store opening up in Tulalip. Drop by and see me if in the area.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: [WR] on February 29, 2012, 05:17:04 PM
pretty much the same thing i did except for the pass thru on the box. there i used the old waterproof trailer connector trick. mostly the same parts to assemble it tho....

BTW, Freddie's has a nice waterproof Lexan box that works well for this, usu. listed @ $18.00 i've caught them on sale for $9-10.00

If you go the trailer connector route and use a Lexan box instead of ABS plastic, drill a 9/64th hole in the side of the box to allow wire sizes up to 10 guage., Use water to lubricate the side of the box while drilling s-l-o-w-l-y.. this is information i'm passing on from our resident fabricator after talking to him via PM.

Defnitely use the liquid electrical tape., it provides and added measure of sealant that you otherwise wont have . 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: INSAYN on March 01, 2012, 09:38:29 AM
My battery hides in my Hobie dry bag and that clips to the mast so it doesn't go anywhere during fishing.  While in my T-13, I just use the provided battery bag and haven't had any corrosion issue since day one in 2008 when I purchased it.
I do use dielectric grease religiously. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 01, 2012, 10:08:08 AM
Since the battery is already sealed, I saw no reason to do anything other than seal up the connections with marine goop. Going on 4 years now without any problems! I did at one time have a fuse in line. I ended up removing it because it wasn't really needed, and could present a corrosion problem.

Love this Dave!  What connector are you using there.  It's surely better than the eartabs.

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 01, 2012, 10:23:31 AM
I do really like the simplistic approach that Dave's solution takes, but I can't personally hook up a $300 electronic gadget without the fuse, which is recommended by the manufacturer.  A fuse might never be needed, but when it is, it's really nice to have it.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: INSAYN on March 01, 2012, 10:29:53 AM
I do really like the simplistic approach that Dave's solution takes, but I can't personally hook up a $300 electronic gadget without the fuse, which is recommended by the manufacturer.  A fuse might never be needed, but when it is, it's really nice to have it.

So, put a fuse inline and then completely encase it and all connections in Goop. 
You get your security with the fuse, and don't have to worry about corrosion. 

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: goldendog on March 01, 2012, 11:33:46 AM
The fuse I was using was encased in a water resistant rubber holder. I guess if the battery somehow shorted out there could be a problem, but it hasn't happened so far. The connector that I use is a standard automotive type like you would use on a trailer connection, except it only has two prongs. I suppose if one did want to have a fuse inline, it should be on the FF side of your connections.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 15, 2012, 08:14:00 AM
I just recreated Lee's setup but they were fresh out of 3a fuses at AutoZone so I bought 4a. Does anyone forsee a problem with using a slightly larger amp size? I'm running an Elite 4 gps/fishfinder off a 12v battery.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: rawkfish on March 15, 2012, 08:36:07 AM
For future reference, I would suggest going under rather than over.  I'd rather blow more fuses than let more than three amps of current flow to the device.  I don't really think you'll have a problem though.  If you ever come across some fuses rated for 3 or less though I'd pick them up and swap them out. 

Let's just do a little number work for the halibut... err... helluvit.  These devices are usually rated to operate between 8 to 18 volts.  If you have 3 amps flowing through for some weird reason and are using a battery that can supply 18 volts(I don't know anyone that does this), that's a worst-case of (3*18) 54 watts.  I really doubt they used electrical components that are rated past 50 watts in these devices since those are pretty pricey and bulky. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2012, 08:54:15 AM
Fuses are super cheap too.  I got a box of mini bus 3amp fuses for under $2. 

Just stop into another auto parts store when you see one, and grab a box of 3amp.  Your FF is worth it IMO.

Pretty sure warranty wouldn't cover it if they figure out your device blew due to overload.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 15, 2012, 09:20:56 AM
Your FF is worth it IMO.

I always wonder about this.  Here's my thought process.  You'd need a decent short somewhere to trip the fuse.  One likely cause for a short is physical damage to the wiring.  But really, what is that going to do to your FF?  Likely nothing except cut the power to it.  The other likely cause is a fault in the FF itself.  If it is bad enough to trip the fuse, you're FF is likely hosed anyways.

The more important aspect of a fuse is that if you have that short, what happens next?  I believe gel cell battery can source enough current to heat up the wires and potentially cause a fire or melt a hole through your kayak.

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: rawkfish on March 15, 2012, 09:36:58 AM
The more important aspect of a fuse is that if you have that short, what happens next?  I believe gel cell battery cause source enough current to heat up the wires and potentially cause a fire or melt a hole through your kayak.

That sounds like the more important reason to have a fuse.  I've seen people use a lead acid gel cell without a case or a fuse.  Just some wires and a battery hanging out in the bottom of the kayak.   :o
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2012, 09:43:20 AM
The more important aspect of a fuse is that if you have that short, what happens next?  I believe gel cell battery cause source enough current to heat up the wires and potentially cause a fire or melt a hole through your kayak.

-Allen

That's what I was talking about when I said "A fuse might never be needed, but when it is, it's really nice to have it."  But for clarity's sake, the 4amp fuse would stop hot wires / fire / melting hull, but it isn't enough to protect your head unit. 

Having a fuse is essential IMO, whether it's to protect your head unit, or to keep you from sinking.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 15, 2012, 09:53:12 AM
I've seen people use a lead acid gel cell without a case or a fuse.

I didn't use a fuse for years before "waking up".  You'd think the electrical engineer in me would have known this from day 1.   :-[

-Allen
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 15, 2012, 10:07:44 AM
Could I get away with a 2a? Just curios.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 15, 2012, 10:19:24 AM
According to the manual, the device draws 250 mA, so 2-amp fuse should work.

Just underneath that notation it recommends a 3-amp

Quote
Current drain at 13.5V (250mA)
Fuse type 3-amp Automotive (not supplied)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 15, 2012, 10:21:01 AM
Could I get away with a 2a? Just curios.

Depends on the current draw of your FF.  If your typical current draw is 200 mA, than 2A is likely fine.  If your typical current draw is 1A, then you might find 2A tripping every now and then on current spikes.

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sherminator on March 15, 2012, 12:54:14 PM
The fuse is not really for protection of your electronics, it is to limit damage caused by excessive current draw, i.e. stop the melting of wire insulation and kayak hulls. The only way to draw excessive current is for the electronics to be in some type of failure already, or for your wiring to be in some type of failure mode, i.e. corroded contacts or cut insulation. Wiring failure typically won't blow your electronics. The fuse limits damage that has already occurred, it doesn't prevent damage from happening.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 15, 2012, 06:48:11 PM
Bought some 3a. Now I feel better :p
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 15, 2012, 06:50:20 PM
The fuse is not really for protection of your electronics, it is to limit damage caused by excessive current draw, i.e. stop the melting of wire insulation and kayak hulls. The only way to draw excessive current is for the electronics to be in some type of failure already, or for your wiring to be in some type of failure mode, i.e. corroded contacts or cut insulation. Wiring failure typically won't blow your electronics. The fuse limits damage that has already occurred, it doesn't prevent damage from happening.

That's exactly what I was thinking and trying to say.  Thanks for the reenforcement.   ;)

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sherminator on March 15, 2012, 07:35:51 PM
Allen - you did say it pretty clearly. I just like being redundant  :)

Also, as I have caused dozens of fuses to blow and circuit breakers to trip, and found the causes of many more, I have a pretty thorough understanding of fuses and what they will and will not do. The belief that fuses will prevent electronics from frying is both common and false, so I just jump to that explanation any time someone brings up the subject of fuses.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on March 18, 2012, 01:41:05 PM
This is my version of Battery Box LITE

Granted,  I could easily afford to shed a few extra pounds by going to the gym,  I like the idea of eliminating any weight that I can on the Kayak.   
Instead of going with a conventional sealed 12 volt battery,  I want to utilize a Li-ion or Li-po battery for the weight savings.    I have experimented and found when fully charged at 12.45 volts,  I can run my Cuda 350 for 10 hours  with the voltage dropping to 11.5 volts.  It should easily cover me for up to a 2 day trip without needing to be charged
 The protective circuit in the battery will turn off when the battery drops to 10.4 volts to protect the cells as well as protecting from over charging.   It also has a built in On / Off Switch with a bright LED indicator.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/CraigVM62/batteryboxLITE.jpg)
 
The entire battery and box weighs about 1/10th that of the 4 Ah battery "shown on the left"  that I was going to use.  The extra room I now have in the box can be used for keeping things like my cell phone, wallet or anything else that must stay dry.

I used easy to disconnect water proof connectors with a matching connector on the end of my charger lead so I can easily charge while sitting in the Kayak. 

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/CraigVM62/connectors.jpg)

I used easy to disconnect water proof connectors with a matching connector on the end of my charger lead so I can easily charge while sitting in the Kayak.
With the light weight,  the box can easily be attached inside the kayak with Velcro or even suction cups and stored inverted.

Total cost for Battery, Box, Connectors and Fuse was under $30   
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 18, 2012, 01:55:27 PM
I would love a lithium battery.  Where did you find that one?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on March 18, 2012, 02:26:20 PM
I get them through a domestic distributor / importer  as we use them to power wireless covert cameras.   They can be found on Fleabay with 6800 mAh versions "as I have shown" running around $25 or less shipped with a "slow boat from China" wait on shipping
For someone wanting much longer run times between charges,  9800 mAh run around $35, with up to
30000 mAh running close to $200    In that price range you can even find Li-ion motorcycle batteries for mega run times of electronics.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: polepole on March 18, 2012, 03:38:24 PM
And where do you get those water proof connectors?  Digging those!

-Allen
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 18, 2012, 04:25:06 PM

I would be interested in where you got them too. I'm recreating Lee's setup and the only connectors I've been able to find are big and bulky. These would help me complete my box perfectly.

And where do you get those water proof connectors?  Digging those!

-Allen
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on March 18, 2012, 09:42:02 PM
Another one of my fleabay experimental purchases.     Just search "waterproof 2 pin connector" and a number of auctions will come up.   Around 4 bucks or less with shipping depending on quantities purchased.   Pretty well constructed for the low price.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on March 19, 2012, 09:41:39 AM
The 9800 mA Li-ion weigh only 1.2 lbs !  I'm in.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 19, 2012, 10:13:15 AM
Seriously thinking about buying one of these.  Demonick, let me know which seller you picked and why.

Kinda torn over $30 for 6800 or $40 for the 9800. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: rawkfish on March 19, 2012, 10:19:00 AM
I'll probably end up going with this setup when I need a new battery.  A lightweight battery AND a battery management system at that price is tough to pass up.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 19, 2012, 12:04:58 PM
Craig what did you use to seal make the point where the wire enters the box waterproof? Looks from the pic that it's zip ties?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on March 19, 2012, 12:07:25 PM
Seriously thinking about buying one of these.  Demonick, let me know which seller you picked and why.

I got the 9.8Ah because my current SLA is 7Ah.  I chose the vendor below because the price was one of the lowest, had a lot of customers, showed the label on the product, said it was NEW, and had high enough positive feedback.  Free shipping 3-4 weeks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716)

I also ordered 5 of the 2-pin waterproof connectors for $10.  Free 3-4 week shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on March 19, 2012, 07:22:01 PM
Craig what did you use to seal make the point where the wire enters the box waterproof? Looks from the pic that it's zip ties?

I used a pass through rubber grommet.   Grooved so it provides a good seal with the container.  I takes a  bit of effort to then slide the cable through, so a good seal there as well.   The zip tie on the back side is just a strain relief should the cable get tugged on.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/CraigVM62/IMG_0001.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y30/CraigVM62/IMG_0002.jpg)

The cheapest ebay sources I could find is $22.50 w/ free shipping for the 6800 mAh version from here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-12V-6800mAh-Li-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-/200718455062?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item2ebbc09116#ht_3730wt_931 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-12V-6800mAh-Li-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-/200718455062?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item2ebbc09116#ht_3730wt_931)

Lowest I could find for the 9800 mAh version is $32.99 w/ free shipping from here
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC-12V-Portable-9800mAh-Li-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-2-/170794794136?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item27c429bc98#ht_3412wt_1103 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC-12V-Portable-9800mAh-Li-ion-Super-Rechargeable-Battery-Pack-2-/170794794136?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item27c429bc98#ht_3412wt_1103)

I have looked over a good number of different ebay auctions for these "Blue Brick" batteries.  From the labeling they all look to be from the same manufacturer as those I buy.   So far I have had good results with them with no failures or DOA  which is surprising considering the low cost.

They all come with 2 leads, one has a Male and the other a  Female 5.5mm x 2.1mm connector.  If needed,  you can find easy to connect versions of these by searching "CCTV Power Connector" on Fleabay for around a $1 ea. with free shipping.   I would suggest a Female to tie in your Yaks electronics to the batteries Male lead.  That leaves the Female lead free to accept the Male Connector of the supplied charger.

(http://image.pushauction.com/ViewPicture.aspx?Key=6f7a1eb9-5793-4eba-9900-08c3174ff5d4_6ea2e6c8-56be-44b6-8844-b1917e691ea4&H=300&W=400)




 
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 19, 2012, 08:34:27 PM
^ Great idea. Do you mind if I steal it? :) I ordered a 2 pin connector like yours and plan on recreating the grommet seal. This is a great thread. Thanks for all the good ideas everyone.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on March 19, 2012, 08:51:09 PM
^ Great idea. Do you mind if I steal it? :) I ordered a 2 pin connector like yours and plan on recreating the grommet seal. This is a great thread. Thanks for all the good ideas everyone.

I wish I knew earlier.....    I have a couple extra pairs of water proof connectors as well as grommets and female power connectors.   Drop me a PM and I can send you what ever you still need.   
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on March 20, 2012, 07:04:54 AM
I ordered the same battery Demonick ordered.  Guess I need to order the female adapter too.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ConeHeadMuddler on March 20, 2012, 08:51:09 AM
Ha. too late now for me to go to lithium ion. I already spent my $$ on the "old" sealed lead-acid system and some valuable time building it. I'm done!  There just ain't any extra time or $$ budgeted for any more batteries in my near future.
I still have to test mine out.

When making my box, I carefully cut my own grommets from 1/4" neoprene from an old diving wetsuit (the "old" denser neoprene that isn't used any more, since the new stuff is so much better).
I was able to cut a nice groove around the outer circumference using my fly tying scissors. Once my leads were installed with connectors on both ends, I sealed the grommets with goop.

Due to the weight savings, I would seriously consider lithium ion, if I hadn't already gone ahead and made mine. but I'm done messing with it. I know the one I made will work fine. I'm good with it. I will always be removing it before loading/unloading my yak from my trailer, and I use a beach cart, so the weight will not be a problem.

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: INSAYN on March 20, 2012, 09:07:10 AM
Be sure to check your local hobby shops that sell RC cars, boats and planes.  They should have a good variety of Lithium-Ion and Lipo batteries to choose from.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on March 20, 2012, 09:45:42 AM
Just ordered 5 male-female pairs of the CCTV connectors - total $5.83
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220920657293 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220920657293)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320819287738 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320819287738)

PS: 21 June - I have NOT yet received these connectors.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Romanian Redneck on March 31, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
Finally finished my battery box. Big thanks to Lee for sharing his design and everyone who contributed their ideas along the way.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/32891e31-9ba5-405d.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/32891e31-9bb5-26e7.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/32891e31-9bc7-fac7.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/32891e31-9bdc-9a07.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/32891e31-9bf1-a653.jpg)

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ConeHeadMuddler on April 01, 2012, 11:08:39 AM
Lookin' good. Mine is very similar to yours and Lee's.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Dray on April 02, 2012, 02:55:42 PM
Quote
I got the 9.8Ah because my current SLA is 7Ah.  I chose the vendor below because the price was one of the lowest, had a lot of customers, showed the label on the product, said it was NEW, and had high enough positive feedback.  Free shipping 3-4 weeks.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716)

I also ordered 5 of the 2-pin waterproof connectors for $10.  Free 3-4 week shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683)

demonick, you get the battery yet...how's it work?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 03, 2012, 08:46:16 AM
demonick, you get the battery yet...how's it work?

Not yet.  I got a shipping notification the day after making the order.  Much that is shipped free from China comes by boat.  I did receive the 5 sets of 2-pin waterproof connectors.  Nice product.  I think they may make a better power/charging solution than the marine grade power plugs I have used on my Revo and T13.  They require a much smaller hole and seem like they would seal better with less effort than the marine grade power plug. 

Still waiting on the battery and the CCTV connectors.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 03, 2012, 08:52:05 AM
I had a missed delivery notice yesterday as well, so it's either the female adapters or the battery.  Hopefully I'll have it all good to go by Sunday.  This weekend looks pretty good for fishing.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Dray on April 05, 2012, 02:21:07 PM
That is a great find...hope it's as good as it seems.  I'm ready to order on myself, but figured I would wait and see if you guys think the quality is up to par.

From the description is seems that the battery has a built in charging circuit and comes with an AC adapter for charging.  Is that correct?

When I make my battery box I am planning on incorporating a small low power LCD display that will show battery voltage.  Not sure if anyone else is interested in this...if so let me know and I will see about making more.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 05, 2012, 02:28:49 PM
From the description is seems that the battery has a built in charging circuit and comes with an AC adapter for charging.  Is that correct?

That's what it sounded like to me.  I'll let you know Saturday morning.

When I make my battery box I am planning on incorporating a small low power LCD display that will show battery voltage.  Not sure if anyone else is interested in this...if so let me know and I will see about making more.

Nah, fishfinder has that on it
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: WayneWhit on April 05, 2012, 07:46:32 PM
Hey guys.  As a retired electrical engineer who worked with a lot of batteries, I would like to caution you against sealing them in a watertight box.  "Sealed" batteries are actually not sealed.  They are standard lead-acid batteries with gelled or absorbed electrolyte.  The gasses produced while charging or dischargine typically recombine in the battery but under severe charging and dischargine modes, they can release some hydrogen gas which is highly flamable.  It might be very rare, but I sure wouldn't want all that plastic shrapnell rattling around in my boat.
I would also caution against leaving out the fuse since a shorted wire can draw a lot of current from the battery.  Not only could this cause a fire, but it could cause a battery explosion.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 05, 2012, 07:59:10 PM
They are typically only 'sealed' in the watertight box for a few hours.  You gotta open it up to recharge.  Still see a danger there?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on April 05, 2012, 08:00:04 PM
The "blue brick" Li-ion batters do have a charge / discharge regulator built in to prevent damage to the cells.
This is nice as it gives you greater options regarding charging sources "transformers" .   Many common rechargeable Li-ion batteries depend on that regulator to be built into the charger. 

I had thought of using a LED voltage display as they can be found cheap for RC hobby use.  Problem is I could not find any that are designed for the voltage range of these batteries.   

Lee,   which FF do you have ?    I know there are screens I still have yet to see on my Lowrance and would tickled if it can give input voltage readings.   



 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: WayneWhit on April 05, 2012, 08:15:12 PM
Lee,  opening the case for recharging would be fine.  The most serious gassing happens when the battery is overcharged or equalized with a higher than recommended voltage
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 05, 2012, 09:02:05 PM

Lee,   which FF do you have ?    I know there are screens I still have yet to see on my Lowrance and would tickled if it can give input voltage readings.   

Humminbird 365i I think
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 06, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
I believe some of the Hummers have a low voltage warning and user adjustable set point.

The blue-brick Li-ion battery and charger showed up yesterday.  It came in charged to 11.9v and a few hours on the charger has brought it up to 12.2V.  I believe the maximum these batteries should be taken to is 12.6v (three 4.2v cells in series).  The battery has an on/off switch and a red LED.  The charger has two LEDs a red and a green.  No instructions were included.  The red LED on the battery goes on when the switch is on or when the charger is plugged in.  The red LED on the charger goes on when the charger is plugged into the wall.  The green LED on the charger goes on when the charger is connected to the battery AND the battery switch is ON. 

From what Craig posted and from what I have read online I am also assuming that I can leave the battery and charger plugged in for extended periods, such as overnight, without harm.  This is the same technology as used on most cell/smart/laptop batteries.

Li-ion batteries are NOT like lead-acid batteries and have many advantages and a few gotchas.  See Battery University:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries)
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries)

Still waiting on the CCTV connectors.

Question for the electricians and/or engineers: If it takes 4 hours to charge one cell of a battery, does it take 12 hours to charge 3 cells in series?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: WayneWhit on April 06, 2012, 09:26:20 PM
Demonick, Since the batteries are in series, the exact same amount of current will flow through each of them.  Charging time is related to the charging current (the higher the current, the shorter the charging time).   Battery chargers are typically designed for a certain voltage per cell (or maximum current) so all else being equal, three batteries in series will take the same amount of time to charge as one battery.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 07, 2012, 08:30:07 AM
Thanks.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 09, 2012, 07:42:28 AM
Demonick, did you ever get your female adapters in?  My battery showed up almost a week ago, and still no female adapters.

Argh, I gotta build a new battery box, the one I made got um... ruined.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 09, 2012, 08:48:53 AM
Lee, still no CCTV connectors.  I'm thinking of cutting the male plug (power out) off the battery and using the waterproof 2-pin connectors.  A little shrink wrap and some sealant and the splices will be waterproof.  After looking at the female CCTV connector, it looks like waterproofing the connections will be messy.  Also I'll need a waterproof "cap" for the female plug (charge in). 

As I've mentioned before I am also likely to replace the marine power plug with a waterproof 2-pin connector.  While the marine power plug may be waterproof in the cockpit of a boat, not so much on a kayak.  On occasion I've not pushed the plug all the way into the receptacle, or like the other day, the wind paddle sail banged against it and loosened it.  The result is serious corrosion in very short order. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on April 09, 2012, 04:43:06 PM
For me, the use of the CCTV Female Power Connector was just for convenience should I want to replace the battery.  I have the battery attached to thein side of the box via velcro for this reason.  If I should somehow run a battery low and do not have time to charge, I can grab one I have that is charged and it is a Plug-n-Play process.    I had no concerns of making that connection water tight since the battery itself can not be made water tight.  I am counting on the water proof box to keep all within dry.  I did brush on a light coating of dielectric grease on all exposed metal of the connectors to be on the safe side.   Seems like anything I get near salt water pays the price over time.

Demonick,  I am curious as to the output of the transformer that came with yours.   Those I purchased for work did not come with one, so I have charged them with a low amperage variable power supply dialed in around 12.75 volts.   I just received a 6800 mAh version that I purchased on ebay which came with a transformer labeled as 12.6 V and 350 mA output though it meters just under 13 volts on it's own.   Wondering what they provide for the larger battery such as yours.

Something else that I found out "by accident" is if you completely short these,  the circuitry within shuts off the output.  Turn off, then back on with the short removed and it's good to go.   I don't know if this could be counted on as sort of a built in breaker as I don't want to push my luck repeating the experiment.

Kinda of disappointed that the Eagle Cuda 350s Map I have does not provide a power voltage reading like it's Lowrance brother model.   Wondering if anyone knows if the new Lowrance Mark 4 has that feature as it was next on my "To ME, From ME" present list.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 09, 2012, 06:55:39 PM
Quote from: CraigVM62
... Demonick,  I am curious as to the output of the transformer that came with yours.    ...   Wondering what they provide for the larger battery such as yours.

My transformer is 12.6 VDC and 350mA - just like yours - it'll just take a little longer to charge.  The integral breaker is cool.

The 9.8 Ah Li-ion is going to replace the 7 Ah SLA in the Revo's rear hatch gear bucket.  The SLA has never gotten wet, but I am still a little worried, so I'm thinking of vacuum sealing the battery.  Poke holes for the wires, seal wire holes with Goop, let dry, then vacuum seal. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: threecreeks on April 09, 2012, 08:04:43 PM
I've been intently following this thread and am thankful for all the input and options. I've opted away from boxing my 12v lead sealed battery. I have a small hatch on the front of my Cobra F-n-D that goes unused and is in close proximity to the mounting point of my fish finder making it the natural spot to keep the battery. I'll probably dry bag it for surf launches.

Great ideas here and I appreciate all the spins on the subject!
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 10, 2012, 09:49:21 AM
The SLA has never gotten wet, but I am still a little worried, so I'm thinking of vacuum sealing the battery.  Poke holes for the wires, seal wire holes with Goop, let dry, then vacuum seal. 

You could save some time and effort if you just threw it into a dry-bag.  But tinkering is fun.

I managed to ruin the marine plug on my current battery box, so I'm likely going to run with a drybag setup til I get down time to make a new box. 

I wanted the female adapters for easy connect/disconnect inside the box, but after still waiting on them for over 3 weeks, I think I'm just gonna skip it, at least for today and tommorrow when I need the battery.  Unfortunately, that means cutting off the male adapter.

Edit:  I'll just use the lead acid brick until I get all the parts I need.    ;D
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 10, 2012, 11:08:22 AM
I just weighed the 7aH SLA and the 9.8aH Li-ion Blue Brick.

SLA:     4.96 lbs
Li-ion:   0.93 lb

My kayak just lost 4 lbs!  That's about 6%. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 14, 2012, 11:05:09 AM
Still no cctv connectors (female adapter) but the 2 prong  waterproof connecter, ordered two weeks after the adapter, has arrived.  Grrrr

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Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 25, 2012, 09:21:50 AM
34 days later, the cctv female adapters showed up.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 26, 2012, 08:51:42 AM
I mentioned this in another thread, but here it is more appropriate. 

I was worried that the new "blue brick" Li-ion battery was not particularly water resistant/proof.  The switch, the cable entry point, and the shrink wrap were all points of entry.  My original SLA was held in the rear gear bucket of the Revo and never showed a sign of getting wet, but the SLA is "sealed" by definition and in reality. 

I vacuum sealed the blue brick.  Punched a small hole in the bottom of the bag and threaded the cables through the hole.  Then a copious amount of silicon seal was used to seal the hole and cables.  The seal was allowed to dry for a few days then I vacuum sealed the battery.  The switch can still be used.  The last thing I need to do is find some sort of water proof cap for the charging cable connector.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ZeeHawk on April 26, 2012, 07:28:27 PM
Ordered a blue brick as a back up so I guess I'll be ready to pimp it in a month. :P Nice find Craig!
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on April 26, 2012, 07:40:09 PM
The brick will show up in 2 weeks or less.   :)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on April 29, 2012, 10:09:55 AM
I have got to say, "THANK YOU!" to CraigVM62 for the blue-brick battery and 2-pin waterproof connector ideas.

I've completely rewired the Revo using both and abandoned the so-called Marine Grade Power Plug.  Since the blue-brick has an integral on-off switch I just wired the battery direct to the power on the FF connector with a couple of those 2-pin connectors.  Shrink-wrapped with Goop at the ends of the shrink-wrap and I am waterproof.  Lightened the rear of the boat, the end I have to lift, by 4 pounds.  This may not sound like much but it is 6% of the hull weight.  Life is good.

Thanks, Craig!

I also remounted the transducer with a DuctSeal ring and water.  Looks very promising, no seepage under the ring for over a week.  Transducer is held in place by carefully compressing the putty onto the transducer.  Ring is filled with fresh water from a 25ml syringe sans needle.  Will report on performance Tuesday or Wednesday. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on May 09, 2012, 09:39:47 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220857050716)

FYI, ordered one for Linglady today, and current prices is $35.99 with free shipping.  9800 mah lithium battery with charger. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on May 10, 2012, 04:30:55 PM
Having used the blue-brick as power for my FF/GPS on 4 trips, I have an observation.  My previous SLA required about the same amount of time to charge as to discharge, so it I ran it for 6 hours it took about 6 hours to charge it back up.  Not so with the blue-brick and charger I have.

I got the 9.8Ah unit which came with a 350mA (max current) charger.  I charged the battery after each trip, yet after just 3 hours on the last trip I got a low voltage warning from my FF/GPS at 9V.  This was about 15 hours of total run time with charging in-between. 

After thinking about it and reviewing the charging characteristics of Li-ion batteries, I realized it takes A LONG time to charge the battery with the supplied charger.

Let's say I have drawn the battery down by 70%, that is, I've pulled 6.8 Ah out of it.  If the charging efficiency is 100%, then using the supplied 350mA charger will take about 19 hours!  However looking at the charge curve it looks like overall the charging cycle is about 63% efficient.  That means about 30.5 hours to charge. 

A 100% draw down would take about 45 hours.  In reality it seems to be taking longer.

I've ordered a 1500 mA intelligent charger. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on May 10, 2012, 04:45:47 PM
How much?

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Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sherminator on May 10, 2012, 06:22:54 PM
Thanks for the feedback Demonick - your reports on gear are really worthwhile.

Li-ion batteries have a lot of good properties to recommend them, but being foolproof is not one of them. Charging requires a level of care that almost demands smart charger. SLA's are much easier for the average Joe to use. I have a 9AH that was salvaged out of a computer UPS about 8 years ago, and have used it as bicycle lighting system battery since then. It charges with a cheap 1A trickle charger, using the 1:1 discharge to charge ratio, and it is still going strong. It is way heavy, and I should get a 4AH SLA to replace it, but it was free, so I have been using it for my FF too. I am tempted by the sexiness of the the Li-ion, but I like the ruggedness of the SLA. (I also have my SLA in a drybag on deck, so I don't have to lift it with the yak.) Keep us posted on further developments.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on May 11, 2012, 08:57:10 AM
How much?

$18/free shipping.  I hesitate to publicly post a link as I have not received and tested the unit. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on May 11, 2012, 10:27:13 AM
I have yet to experiment using the charger that came with the battery I picked up off ebay.  At work I charge them with a 4 output variable DC power supply with voltage dialed to 12.75 volts and amperage around 700 to 800 ma.   Because of enclosure size restrictions, I have only worked with the 6800 and 9800 mAh versions of these batteries at work.   I keep a meter on each and pull them when balanced voltage reaches around 12.60 volts.   When pulled from operations,  they are typically drained down to around 10.5 - 11 volts and take around 8 hours to charge back up.

Demonick
 I believe I am getting these charge times because of the higher amperage that I am charging them at.  Could you post the specs of the charger you ordered.   It has been years since I seriously dealt with batteries and charging techniques, back when I was into RC racing.   We are talking NiCad days so my knowledge is likely way outdated.

I will experiment by draining one of these batteries to the point that the built in regulator releases / shuts it down.  I will then charge it with a 1000ma / 1A standard transformer and monitor the charge rate / time until the built in regulator disconnects again.    I also have access to so real hardcore bench techs and will see if they can help bring me up to speed.

         
   
 


Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ZeeHawk on May 11, 2012, 05:03:11 PM
Got my blue brick pimped and ready to give it the test run tomorrow. Thanks for the tips DN. looking forward to the charger specs.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on May 11, 2012, 05:28:11 PM
... At work I charge them with a 4 output variable DC power supply with voltage dialed to 12.75 volts and amperage around 700 to 800 ma.   Because of enclosure size restrictions, I have only worked with the 6800 and 9800 mAh versions of these batteries at work.   I keep a meter on each and pull them when balanced voltage reaches around 12.60 volts.   When pulled from operations,  they are typically drained down to around 10.5 - 11 volts and take around 8 hours to charge back up.

A 12.6V Li-ion battery is composed of 3 cells in series.

Check the links I posted in #67 above.  The charging plot for Li-ion is not linear and shows that capacity trails voltage by quite a lot.  Full charge is attained in about 3 times the time it takes to get to 12.6V.  So to get your batteries to a full charge at 700-800mA maximum current would take about 24 hours.  Two conditions determine when the Li-ion battery is charged, the voltage hits 12.6V AND the charging current drops to 3% of the maximum, and I have been monitoring both parameters manually.  Most "Smart" chargers stop charging when the voltage attains 12.6V AND the charging current drops to 10% of maximum.

Quote
I believe I am getting these charge times because of the higher amperage that I am charging them at.  Could you post the specs of the charger you ordered. 

1500mA maximum current, stops charging when battery voltage attains 12.6V AND charging current drops to 10% of maximum.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on May 11, 2012, 07:33:46 PM
I am familiar with how these and other similar Li-ion batteries obtain their voltages via combining 3.7 cells.    I can also only post what has provided very good results with several dozen of these battery packs with 14 or so discharge / recharge cycles each at this point.

Are you going with a smart charger as a redundant safety backup should the battery packs PCB fail vs. just a standard 1.5 amp transformer?

I am going to experiment with some cheap1 amp transformers I have .  I have one battery that I have drained down to where it's PCB kicked off at 8,5 V.   I will see how long it takes before the PCB's overcharge protection disconnects. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on May 14, 2012, 08:11:30 AM
I'm going with a smart charger because I need a higher charge current, I am unsure of the electronics in the blue-brick itself, and it was cheap and easy - $18
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on May 25, 2012, 09:37:57 PM
I received the Li-ion "smart charger" and tested it.  From a charged battery I used it for about 5.5 hours with a draw of about 650mA.

I plotted the battery voltage and charging current over the length of the 6 hour charge.  The voltage and current plotted a graph very similar to the one in the previous links.  The battery started at 11.58V with charging current of 1.17 A.  After 6 hours the voltage was 12.61 with a charging current of 0.119A.  I stopped it then since the charging voltage had reached 10% of the initial value. 

The charger has a dual color LED.  It started red and sometime in 4-5 hour time range it changed to green.  At 5 hours, when green, the voltage was 12.48V and the charging current 0.214A.

For my FF/GPS (650mA draw) it looks like I should charge for about the same amount of time as used on the battery.  YMMV.  Also the charger is behaving properly, so leaving it on longer (within reason) will likely not hurt the battery. 

Here's the link to the "smart charger" I got. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320879811549 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320879811549)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on June 07, 2012, 10:04:43 PM
Version 2.0 x 2

(http://img.tapatalk.com/181196c5-87fc-b15b.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/181196c5-8815-1bac.jpg)

If you're wondering about the extra wires  inside, it's so I can still plug in a lead acid battery.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: [WR] on June 08, 2012, 04:15:38 AM
Wow, Lee, those are really nice. Pack foam inside to keep things in place when in use?  
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on June 08, 2012, 07:15:10 AM
Not really necessary.  The batteries are light, and won't damage anything if they move around a bit.  I put foam in with the lead acid battery because it was so dense I could see it potentially doing damage.  Maybe I'll put wallet, keys and sidearm in there.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 08, 2012, 09:19:54 AM
Use the foam.  When the wind waves are breaking over the bow and your hull is slapping down into the wave troughs, letting everything bounce/slide around will stress the connectors, pass-through points, and waterproofing. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: [WR] on June 08, 2012, 09:32:35 AM
  Maybe I'll put wallet, keys and sidearm in there.

I'd advise against that.. may sound strange but you may run a risk of demagnetising any swipe cards you have in the wallet, plus it might affect the chip in your key fob if your car uses one of those types. We've found in our Tallahassee test lab when doing isolation testing, that even the button cell or coin type batteries will produce an Em or RF field while in use that can disrupt things like that.

who woulda thought that just two hearing aid batteries could cause so much trouble?

Am not at all sure if this would be true with LiOns but after what i've seen , wouldnt want to  chance it.   
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on June 08, 2012, 09:44:27 AM
Last thing I want to deal with is calling for new cards.  Blech.

I hear ya Demonick, but I'm gonna live dangerously!   >:D

Kidding aside, I pulled the cable all the way to the connection, and backed it with a zip tie and copious amounts of Goop.  Should be fine.  The only turbulence it will see is my Huli's.  Maybe I'll add a piece of spare pipe insulation after I re-do my car racks.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Akfishin on June 08, 2012, 11:28:54 AM
What kind of run time are you getting out of one of these puppies with like a lowrance elite ff?


---
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Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: browneyesvictim on June 08, 2012, 12:51:09 PM
Take a look at these weatherpack (Packard) connectors... I'm ordering a handfull of these and will have some extras at ORC if anyone wants one....

Erik
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: bigdood on June 08, 2012, 01:08:56 PM
^^ Those look nice, what do they run $$
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: browneyesvictim on June 08, 2012, 01:22:33 PM
My cost is about $3.50 for a set plus shipping.

The thing is, to do this right, you need the special crimpers tools (which I already have).

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: rawkfish on June 08, 2012, 01:26:22 PM
Those are what Hobie uses for the Hobie Livewell.  They're nice!
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 09, 2012, 08:15:17 AM
What kind of run time are you getting out of one of these puppies with like a lowrance elite ff?

What is the current draw for your Lowrance Elite?  There are a number of different models. 

My H'bird draws 650mA and so far the 9Ah blue brick has powered it for 8 hours continuously.  It will go longer. 
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: ZeeHawk on June 09, 2012, 12:32:05 PM
My blue brick is awesome. Really like that's it's so little and light. I do have to add that splicing the wires is pretty hard.  The wires are super thin.
Title: Re: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on June 09, 2012, 01:39:11 PM
My blue brick is awesome. Really like that's it's so little and light. I do have to add that splicing the wires is pretty hard.  The wires are super thin.

You need one of these  (http://img.tapatalk.com/181196c5-b4e5-569a.jpg)


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Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: DanWulf on June 16, 2012, 07:42:24 AM
A somehow alternative approach to a DIY battery box:

-   PELI 1300 case
-   12V 16ah or 24ah sealed battery (capacity of battery depends whether I use it for one-day trips or longer trips in areas without access to electricity)
-   6 amp Solar charger regulator
-   Flexi PV Solar panel (Output: 20W, 17.5V at max, 1.15A at max)
-   Various plugs and wire pieces

The battery box and panel is used with a Garmin 526S compo (plotter and FF) on my Hobie Revolution. The Garmin is a thirsty beast and has a max consumption of 15W. Without charging between fishing days it is not possible to use the Garmin during trips to e.g. Sweden where we camp and fish from small islands without access to electricity. The solar panel will allow me to camp and fish for weeks without conventional charging.  In addition, the solar powered battery is used to charge various video cams and still cameras.

For kayak fishing, an obvious disadvantage is the weight of the battery box. Approximately 8lbs and 16lbs for the 16ah and 24ah set-up, respectively. In addition, I need to find a way of preventing the box from knocking a hole in the kayak when the kayak eventually will flip.

The box-solar panel combo was originally developed as an experimental set-up in relation to use of Mobile Health (“M-Health”) services in Sub-Saharan rural communities. In many African countries there is an extensive coverage of mobile phone networks and mobile phones are commonly used in rural communities without access to electricity. Though, charging the cellular phones in these areas is always an issue. The combination of a 24ah old-school 12V sealed battery and a 20W solar panel makes it possible to allow continues charging of numerous cellular phones. Hence, the aim of this small project was to make a low-cost, solid, maintenance free and (almost) waterproof battery box, which easily can be moved from place to place.  By using stainless connectors it’s possible to use the set-up in coastal rural communities where metal corrosion normally kills electrical connectors after a few weeks. One may argue that there are cheaper solutions out there - but at least the box seems rock-solid and can take loads of beating and drops.

Please notice that the measurement (ruler) uses the metric system - scale is in centimeter. 1 inch = 2.54 centimeter.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 16, 2012, 08:10:23 AM
Nicely designed and engineered.  It's beautiful.  How does the solar charging work when overcast?

You may be interested in seeing how I installed bungie lacing across the bow and front hatch of my Revo13.
http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Bow.Bungee.Lacing/HMR.Bow.Bungee.Lacing.html (http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Bow.Bungee.Lacing/HMR.Bow.Bungee.Lacing.html)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: DanWulf on June 16, 2012, 02:10:10 PM
Thanks for the kind words, demonick!

Well - I have not made attempts to keep track of the battery voltage during longer periods with cloudy weather. I have made direct measurements of the voltage output of the panel under overcast conditions.  Here, it seems to produce 11-12V or more and the output will increase to 17V or higher when the panel is exposed to direct sunlight. These measurements were done directly from the output of the panel – not from the regulator’s outputs. Although the charging capacity is reduced when the panel is not directly exposed to sunlight - I assume it will still charge the battery – although at a lower rate.  So in cloudy weather it will take longer time to reach the point of a fully charged battery. But it works.

While charging and using the battery the regulator will prevent deep charge as well as prevent overloading the battery. BTW – generally it is not recommended to place the regulator in an airtight space with little or no cooling. I was therefore worried that the regulator will heat up and eventually melt down during use. But during +20 days of testing I have not noticed any heating or raised temperatures in the box or around the regulator. 

Thanks for the link to your site! As you may be able to see, the bungee holding the solar panel in place is connected to the kayak at 3 points. One point just below the panel and two points at the front handle site. This seems to do the job and I have not noticed any flapping or movements – even in heavy wind or as a result of waves hitting the panel.  Since the panel is somehow flexible it will not be an advantage to fix it with several straps across the surface. This may result in a bended or broken panel.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sumpNZ on June 20, 2012, 10:36:26 PM
Demonick - Would you mind posting pics of your blue-brick set up?  I just placed my order for one (hoping to have the fish finder on order soon too - just looking for a good sale price).  I find it easier to follow what folks are doing with a couple pictures.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 21, 2012, 11:50:58 AM
As the photos show, it's pretty simple.  I cutoff the output lead and soldered, shrink-wrapped, and gooped one of the waterproof connectors from post #37 of this thread. 

The first photo shows the finished Hobie Gear Bucket with the blue brick, foam padding and the output and charging leads.  Note the goop sealant in the notch for the output lead.  Some forethought would have allowed me to drill a small hole below the top edge, slip the lead through it and then solder.   It turns out a .380ACP case slightly belled fit perfectly over the charging lead.  When installed in the kayak the lead gets pushed down in between the foam pieces, and the lid of the bucket snapped down. 

The second photo shows it without the foam padding.  The internal partition of the bucket was removed to fit the much larger SLA which I was previously using.   The internal partition does not need to be removed to fit the blue brick.  The blue brick was vacuumed sealed in a bag with the corner cutoff and sealed with silicone seal to allow the leads to exit.  In the photo the battery has been flipped - the leads exit at the bottom of the bucket.  The on/off switch is easily accessible past the foam.

I remove the entire bucket to charge. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sumpNZ on June 21, 2012, 12:06:15 PM
Do you have any spare water-proof connectors I can buy?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 21, 2012, 12:10:38 PM
Do you have any spare water-proof connectors I can buy?

Sorry, no.  I like them so much I keep finding other uses for them.  Here's the link I used to order:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320854063683)

By the way, I NEVER received the CC-TV connectors I ordered, but then, I didn't need them either.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sumpNZ on June 21, 2012, 12:23:37 PM
I had remembered the looong lead time on those CCTV connectors.  I didn't realize these were different.  Will order some tonight.

Just need to decide where to buy the fish finder now and place that order too.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sumpNZ on June 22, 2012, 08:39:48 AM
Just ordered the connectors.  About how long did it take for you to get them?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on June 22, 2012, 09:28:51 AM
Just ordered the connectors.  About how long did it take for you to get them?

About 10 days.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: mxrooster on July 14, 2012, 08:24:22 PM
My dilemma with the battery box was I really wanted to use aa's strictly for weight and for the fact that the aa can be found at just about every quick mart. I was mainly going to reuse rechargeable's but also wanted the option of just using regular aa's if i had to. So 8,10,or12 aa's? I picked all three.  With a couple of PDT switches i am able to choose to run off of 8,10 or even 12 batteries. I'm waiting on my rubber covers for the switches then she'll be water tight. ;D

12 rechargeable=14.4 v   12 standard=18v
10 rechargeable=12 v      10 standard=15v
 8 rechargeable=10 v        8 standard=12v

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Nick on July 14, 2012, 08:48:42 PM
How many amp hours can you get with 12?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: mxrooster on July 14, 2012, 09:20:47 PM
Well some of the rechargeable batteries advertise a 2700 mah rating. Which should give me about 14 hours. Which is plenty for what i do.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Nick on July 14, 2012, 11:21:05 PM
I'm starting to do the research on the ff/battery box combo for the future of my outback. I've read quite alot about the blue box, or the cabelas battery. I think I could churn out the cabelas bat box and rig in a couple days, buy everything local. The blue box might take awhile, due to shipping and a little more work cutting/splicing. Have you guys that have switched found it that much better than the larger heavier batteries? Is it worth it for someone to start off with the blue brick ya think?

 I had my wife look up that blue box on Chinese websites, since that is where its made. She said the cost in china is just under 20 bucks with current exchange. so, not to much of an up-charge considering shipping. She goes back end of the year for abit so if people are interested then, can make her lug some back for me  >:D Just hope she don't find this post.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on July 15, 2012, 08:45:56 AM
It is a pretty project, and I hesitate to point this out, but ...

An AA battery weighs about 24.5g and 12 of them, 294g.  I have an similar otter box so I estimate your weighs about 350g.  That puts your design weight at 644g (1.42 lbs) without considering the breadboard, switches, wires, holders, and connectors. 

The entire blue brick design above including the Hobie gearbox, lid, foam, and connectors totals 727g (1.6 lbs). 

So if your primary design goal was to save weight ...
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: maverick on July 15, 2012, 09:55:59 AM


The entire blue brick design above including the Hobie gearbox, lid, foam, and connectors totals 727g (1.6 lbs). 

So if your primary design goal was to save weight ...

+1
I bought the blue brick after reading "some" of this thread, goin to cabelas and checking out other options and it seamed the most reasonable outside of the three weeks it took to arrive.. I was lazy to rig a water tight box so i just stuffed it in a dry bag for now... the whole setup, FF, battery, transducer & the well I made for it is still +\-  5lbs
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: mxrooster on July 15, 2012, 10:25:22 AM
I wanted to save weight and wanted a power supply that was readily available. So i settled on the aa "a fair compromise of both worlds"that gave me both a light weight power source and something i can get literally anywhere. If you go out fishing and your blue brick happens to loose its charge and you didnt bring your back up your screwed. Now i could have bought a couple of the "blue bricks" and waited for them to arrive however if something were to happen to them it would be another month without a fish finder or have to rig up something temporary until they arrived.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: craig on July 15, 2012, 10:53:38 AM
I use a tupperware container with 8 rechargeable AAs.  It works all day for me.  I used to have it set up where two more rechargeables would attach in series so I could run 8 regular or 10 rechargeables.   I found that unnecessary one day when I could not find the two battery holder. I don't know how long one set-up of 8 2300 mah batteries run, but it lasts longer than I do.  I have used it for as long as 8 hours, but my FF is nothing fancy.  It is black and white with no gps function.   If I do run out of charge, it was so cheap I have a spare. 
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Noah on July 21, 2012, 01:35:57 PM
Can someone explain how to charge the blue brick? I got the one with the charger but misplaced the directions (if there were ones). The charger has a red and green light. Do I need to switch the brick's power button on to charge it? It seems the red light is always on, when I plug the brick in to charge it and turn it on both lights come on. I charged it over night and the voltage increased but the red light is still on? Does the green light only show once it's charged? Does it take more than 12 hours to fully charge? What should the final voltage read when fully charged? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on July 21, 2012, 02:46:24 PM
plug it in, turn the battery switch to on.  When it's done, charger light will show green.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Noah on July 21, 2012, 04:05:09 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on July 22, 2012, 10:36:45 AM
I had slow charging issues with the charger that came with my blue brick.  Start reading at post #84 for the details.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Noah on July 22, 2012, 11:32:36 AM
Thanks for the help, Demonick. A few more dumb questions,

What exactly is a "smart charger"? I assume its a charger that shuts down when fully charged? I have a motorcycle trickle charger I use for my other batteries, is this the same thing?  Will this work for the brick? If I were to plug the trickle charger into the output leads on the brick, would it work? Is over charging a concern with either the standard charger or a trickle charger?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Ed Call on July 22, 2012, 10:08:27 PM
Fascinated with the blue brick design, but I don't paddle a peddle craft.  Right now I've got a waterproof box and a small lawnmower battery.  This kit serves me on my inflatable river boats as the source of power for inflation.  Since I have it and wanted to save $$ I added some bolts to allow pretty quick connection to my electronics and cam strapped the whole mess inside my boat to the two forward most scuppers.  Seems to be good for now.  I'm sure it is heavier than the blue brick.  No idea of the weight.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on July 23, 2012, 08:49:45 AM
What exactly is a "smart charger"? I assume its a charger that shuts down when fully charged? I have a motorcycle trickle charger I use for my other batteries, is this the same thing?  Will this work for the brick? If I were to plug the trickle charger into the output leads on the brick, would it work? Is over charging a concern with either the standard charger or a trickle charger?

Li-ion batteries are not like Lead-Acid batteries.  While Li-ion have many advantages they are more sensitive to over-charging.   Li-ion batteries have a particular charging profile and require their own type of "smart charger".  Start reading at post #67. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on July 23, 2012, 08:57:13 AM
The blue bricks have built in over-charge protection.  But it doesn't hurt to have double safety.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Skidplate on July 23, 2012, 04:30:46 PM
Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but is there a low voltage cut off anywhere in the system?

The easiest way to hurt Lipo cells is running them too low. If that happens they lose their stated capacity and may even puff and ooze. (btdt)

I use these cells a lot in my RC toys and they are awesome, just need to keep some things in mind for maintenance:

Do check out some of the online RC websites as these batteries can be found ridiculously cheap online. (same or better quality for a fraction of the price)

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on July 24, 2012, 08:56:21 AM
My Humminbird has a low voltage warning set at 9V, then, shortly thereafter the unit turns off.  If I recall correctly, the charts I've seen on voltage versus charge capacity indicate an 80% charge when the cell voltage first hits 3.2V (12.6V for our blue bricks).  This is generally when the charger indicates a full charge, so unless you go beyond the charger "full-charge" indication you should be good for storage.  I've been going 30 minutes past the "full-charge" indication and the charging current drops substantially from 10% to less than 5% over that time.  Perhaps I'll stop doing that.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 10, 2012, 01:23:39 AM
sorry if these questions were answered already...

Can either the male or female connections be used for charging?

Also, what is the danger of having the li-ion's battery switch "on" all the time?

what I'm getting at is...it would be nice to create a little waterproof unit that doesn't need to be opened (often).  I'm thinking a small pelican case containing a blue brick, fuse and a waterproof connector leading to the outside of the case.  So, the case remains closed and you interact with the battery (draw from it or charge it) only thru the single waterproof connector.  I am new to electrical stuff.  As you can tell.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on August 10, 2012, 09:20:04 AM
I believe you must charge it through the charging connector. 

Typical indicator LEDs consume about 20mA of power.  In 50 hours such an LED will consume 1 Ah - that's every 2 days.  If you have a 9aH blue brick in a week you will have drained about half the charge. 

Mini LEDs can have power draws as low as about 2mA.  This would lower your power drain by a factor of 10. 

I turn mine on and off. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 10, 2012, 11:20:03 AM
Just to be clear, the charging connector is the FEMALE connector on the battery itself, yes?  I've been trying to charge my battery with the "smart charger" and all I get is red.  The first time it was charging for a week, then zee told me the battery switch has to be on for it to charge.  So now it's on and has been charging for three full days and it's still red.  Am I somehow using the wrong connector?  the smart charger connector is male....

(http://www.thewhiteroom.com/graphics/blog/fishing/brick1.jpg)
smart charger connector (male at the bottom), connecting to the female connector on the battery.  Correct for charging?

(http://www.thewhiteroom.com/graphics/blog/fishing/brick2.jpg)
what I assume is the "on" position.  Tried charging in the other position for a week and never got green.

WTF is up?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on August 10, 2012, 11:23:02 AM
The light on the battery is still red, or the light on the charger is still red?  The charger light should change, the battery will always be red light.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: sumpNZ on August 10, 2012, 11:25:09 AM
On my charger there's 2 lights.  One that's green when the battery is plugged in and turned on.  The other is red.  Does the red one eventually turn green when the battery is charged?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: JamesC on August 10, 2012, 11:27:15 AM
Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but li-ion batteries should be charged in an open area right? My battery experience comes from RC cars and we have "charging" bags you put batteries in to charge them in incase something happens to them. I've been told to never charge my batteries in the car or an otherwise "closed" enviroment.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Pixster on August 10, 2012, 11:42:28 AM
I had similar charging questions when I received mine. Responses I received from the  people that sold the battery on ebay:

Quote
This product is a green light, the charge must be 12 hours at the first time ,followed by charging at any time, switch to control charging time can be opened or can not open, off when the lights are not bright, open red ,fully charged when the green .please try it again

If still not work ,please check if the charger is not work or the battery does not charge storage , if the charger is not work ,you can buy it in the local ,if not cost too mouch ,we can cover the fee .
please don't warry ,We will take the responsibility if you still can't make it work

Quote
Please keep "on" when you charge for it,
the charger has two ligths , when the battery charge enough , only red light .
we wonder whether the battery has a problem? or the charger.

I gave up and used my 800mA charger, then later bought the 1.5A charger that demonick referenced earlier.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 10, 2012, 11:55:55 AM
hahahaha...those instructions are hilarious.  OK, I finally figured it out.  I was thinking the light on the battery itself would change to green but that's not the case.  I didn't notice this before, but there is a light on the smart charger itself that goes from red to green (note this is not the stock charger).

Someone should do a definitive "blue brick" setup guide.  The info in this thread is AWESOME but there's alot of tech-speak that is pretty incomprehensible to a knucklehead like me!
I'd buy that person a box of donuts or something.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on August 10, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
It really boils down to two simple things:

Switch battery to "on" to charge
Light on the charger will turn GREEN when it's done

*Don't make weird modifications - lithium batteries can kill you.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 10, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
well, got it all together.  Along with a new finder.  Interested to see how this system does on a fishing day.  Wee bit of a hackjob, but that's my trademark. 

"There's no waterproofing task that half a tube of marine goop can't solve"

I think it achieves the overall goal of reducing weight and simplifying the electronics BS. 

(http://www.thewhiteroom.com/graphics/blog/fishing/ff1.jpg)

(http://www.thewhiteroom.com/graphics/blog/fishing/ff2.jpg)

(http://www.thewhiteroom.com/graphics/blog/fishing/ff3.jpg)

Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 15, 2012, 11:31:43 PM
I did a test and found that the blue brick powers my humminbird 587ci HD for 10 hours before dropping below 9V.  Could do probably do longer if I dimmed the screen.

The old 12v SLA generally lasted about 7-8 hours with the screen dimmed.

UPDATE: with the smart charger, it charges full overnight (about 9 hours)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Nick on August 15, 2012, 11:35:18 PM
Sweet dude. Is that a rubber grommet in there? If so where did you find it? Might copy this, looks easier than using the mast mount.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 16, 2012, 07:05:37 AM
Yeah. The guy at the hardware store found it pawing thru some random drawers. I showed him some of the pics posted in the "waterproofing FF cables" thread.
Title: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Ling Banger on August 16, 2012, 08:26:28 AM
You're going to like that 597 Rory. The lings have no where to run, nowhere to hide. Nice install.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on August 16, 2012, 11:10:42 AM
Actually, it's a 587ci.  Is there a big difference between the 587 and 597?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: SeattleYakker on November 20, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Thanks for the great thread and ideas guys!!!   :o

I thought I would post up for what I did on my setup.
I am going to use the screw and strap on my adventure lid and fabricate velcro to hold the case to the lid.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on November 20, 2012, 09:08:17 PM
AWESOME!  That's actually exactly how I have mine set up - same case and everything.  You'll be very happy.  Frickin love the blue brick.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: SeattleYakker on November 20, 2012, 10:26:08 PM
yep its pretty schweet, only problem I had was finding all the damn parts. The 17 year old holiday helper at fry's electronics must have been using legalized marijuana before December 6th :P

Also if anyone is wondering about car chargers, I found one that is a 1200ma charger that is cigarette lighter powered.
Ill post up the info once i get it tested and it doesn't catch on fire....

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on September 03, 2013, 09:26:24 AM
I have a few "blue brick" setups and a couple times recently I've been out and had a fully-charged battery last only about 4 hours on me.  Originally, it lasted over 10 (tested using hour meter on finder).  Is this battery defective or do they lose their ability to hold a charge?  I only bought it late last year.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on September 03, 2013, 09:52:14 AM
I'm not sure what the problem is, but Li-ion batteries are sensitive to overcharging.  Better to undercharge than overcharge and an "intelligent charger" is highly recommended.  My 9.8 Ah has been preforming well since installed about 18 months ago.  Probably 60 charging cycles since then, maybe more.  I set a kitchen timer for an hour less than the time it was running, then one hour at a time until the charger light changes from red to green.  I suppose an indoor light timer would work also. 
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on September 03, 2013, 10:09:27 AM
I'm not sure what the problem is, but Li-ion batteries are sensitive to overcharging.  Better to undercharge than overcharge and an "intelligent charger" is highly recommended.  My 9.8 Ah has been preforming well since installed about 18 months ago.  Probably 60 charging cycles since then, maybe more.  I set a kitchen timer for an hour less than the time it was running, then one hour at a time until the charger light changes from red to green.  I suppose an indoor light timer would work also. 

Hmmm...I charge with the intelligent charger:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intelligent-Smart-Charger-DC12-6V-1-5A-for-11-1V-LiIon-LiPo-Battery-pack-US-plug-/320879811549?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

So you think it might be overcharging it?  Is there a "meter" I can get ?
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: demonick on September 03, 2013, 11:56:54 AM
Craig is the real expert with these things.

I used to check the state of the charge based on the current draw. When it had dropped to just under 1/10 the the starting current I would stop charging. (starting was about 1.2A, and i stopped at 0.1A). It turned out, this was just about the same time the LED went from red to green, so I stopped monitoring the current. 

I think the battery must be on for it to accept a charge.  I always plug in the charger with the battery off.  In this state the charger shows green.  When the battery is turned on the charger LED goes to red.

I do this because I found that when you plug in the charger the LED on the battery lights up, so once the charger is attached it is hard to tell if the battery is on or off.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on September 07, 2013, 05:05:03 PM
Rory,
I would hook up a digital multi meter first to confirm what voltage your charger is putting out when not connected to your battery.   Then use it to see what the battery is reading when you see the LED on your charger indicate the battery is fully charged.

You can pick up a cheap DMM  from harbor freight for 6 bucks.   Granted I would check it on some power sources with a known voltage "new 1.5 and 9 volt batteries" just to  or compare it to readings from a quality unit if you can to confirm it is fairly accurate. 

Lastly,  I would set the problem battery up to run a couple  complete discharge / recharge cycle to "condition" it sort of speak.   Drain the battery to the point where it's built in Battery Protection Circuit Board breaks the circuit.   Then Charge the battery up completely.  I would meter to see what voltage it charges up to each time and compare.  A small incandescent 12 volt lamp such as a automotive dome light bulb works well to drain down the battery.



Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on September 08, 2013, 08:20:21 PM
will do, thanks man!
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Skidplate on September 09, 2013, 08:46:32 AM
Lastly,  I would set the problem battery up to run a couple  complete discharge / recharge cycle to "condition" it sort of speak.   Drain the battery to the point where it's built in Battery Protection Circuit Board breaks the circuit.   Then Charge the battery up completely.  I would meter to see what voltage it charges up to each time and compare.  A small incandescent 12 volt lamp such as a automotive dome light bulb works well to drain down the battery.

In my opinion, while the above steps are good for most nickel metal or lead based batteries, I don't think it is recommend for lithium. These packs state that there is a protective cutoff, but I personally wouldn't trust it. I wouldn't take it below 3v per cell; or 9 volts for the pack. LiPo batteries do not like to be completely discharged and will lose capacity if done so, and may even die completely. If you don't have a voltage cutoff on your FF, this may even be the root cause. Cheap LiPo batteries will lose capacity over time as well; so what you described could result from normal use as well.

One physical way to tell if the pack has vented is to squeeze the sides with your fingers, does it feel slightly soft, or hard like a brick? If a little soft, it has vented a bit and won't usually have full capacity. It will still work just fine, you just have to remember that you don't have the same duration.

If you take it into a hobby shop, they could hook it up to one of their chargers and tell you how much juice it's able to hold. You can compare that to the stated Ah and know a little more.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on September 09, 2013, 08:54:41 AM
Interesting. Yeah I have been running it completely out with the FF. that could be the root cause.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Lee on September 09, 2013, 09:24:47 AM
Love all the interesting tid bits you can learn on this site.
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: CraigVM62 on September 19, 2013, 10:24:00 AM
The reason I suggested the cycling while monitoring the charge and discharge cut off points is to confirm the BPCB is opening at a fairly constant point.  That and to see that the drain time is roughly the same also.   The real battery guru's also toy around with the process, calling it "Batter Calibration".

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_calibration (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_calibration)


  If I trust that the BPCB will open to prevent overcharging with the stock charging transformer, then for me, it is no giant leap of faith to count on them functioning to prevent over draining.   
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: pmmpete on September 27, 2013, 06:53:51 AM
Here are pictures of a battery box I have been using for about four years.  I use male and female banana plugs I bought at Radio Shack to provide a waterproof connection through the wall of the box.  I chose banana plugs because they are big and rugged, should resist the ravages of water and sand pretty well, and they can be cleaned in the field.  I haven’t had any corrosion problems, but I haven’t been paddling in salt water.  I’m going to pick up some dialectric grease for the plugs.

The male plugs are soldered on, and I have a pair of spare male plugs with screw-on connections stashed inside the box, so if I manage to break a wire or rip a plug off the end of a wire I can replace the plug in the field.  That could save a fishing trip.  I also keep spare fuses in the box.

(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i444/pmmpete/P5310515a_zps8526c6a0.jpg) (http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/pmmpete/media/P5310515a_zps8526c6a0.jpg.html)

(http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i444/pmmpete/P5310513a_zpsaacd009e.jpg) (http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/pmmpete/media/P5310513a_zpsaacd009e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: DIY Battery Box
Post by: Rory on September 27, 2013, 10:36:39 AM
Looks like a really cool system!