NorthWest Kayak Anglers

Not Necessarily Kayak Fishing => Recipes => Topic started by: browneyesvictim on February 28, 2011, 04:33:19 PM

Title: Fish and Parasites
Post by: browneyesvictim on February 28, 2011, 04:33:19 PM
While cleaning my catch out of the salt recently, I came upon an issue I felt that needs brought up here since we are all (at least most all of us anyway) handling, cleaning, preparing, and eating the fish we catch . I have found- and have come to educate myself- that it is common for many of our prized catch to contain codworms or "roundworms". :o What to my surprise when I found several of these critters crawling out of the meat of freshly caught Greenling- Live ones- as well as dead ones- embedded within the flesh!

One of my biggest pet-peeves when eating fish is that it is overcooked. To me its abomination to have dried out fish! If you are like me, and prefer fish on the "slightly opaque" side, or in some circumstances- RAW, there are risks and precautions one must take to prevent the transfer of parasites that are a normal occurrence in some fish. Even if you cook your fish to "Well- done-ness", anybody that is cleaning and preparing fish should be aware of what to look for. I  for one, have thrown out many "questionable" fish. But what I have learned is, what the dirty little secret of the fish market community has been doing, and its usually not throwing out fish that have worms.

I make no claim about being an expert on the matter, but felt it is worth bringing up on this forum for awareness. There are plenty of painfully heated discussions about safety in the water (cringe!), so I offer this new topic here about food safety. I found a very informative article on the net about the matter.  There's actually a lot of other good information on other topics related to cleaning and preparing fish as well.
http://www.beyondsalmon.com/2006/09/parasites-in-fish-part-1-cod-worm.html (http://www.beyondsalmon.com/2006/09/parasites-in-fish-part-1-cod-worm.html)

After my latest experience with the creepy crawlies, and what I got most out of this article is that I will -from now on- use judiciously the "candling" inspection method for all the fish I catch for home consumption as well as any store bought fish I bring home.

Erik
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Spot on February 28, 2011, 04:53:45 PM
I candle all my bottom fish after cleaning and skinning.  The worms are easy to see and easy to remove.   Occasionally you get a fish with a bunch of "flavor nodules" (round, pussy looking pockets).  These tend to be much harder to remove with any consistency.  Doesn't seem to negatively affect the remaining meat though.

Mmmmmm Flavor Nodules!

-Spot-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: steelheadr on February 28, 2011, 04:55:15 PM
If you've eaten rock fish around here, you've probably eaten a few dead worms (assuming you've cooked the fish). Since I've used local rock fish and ling cod for ceviche a number of times and lived to tell the tell, my cursory inspections of the flesh seems to be adequate. If I'm freezing the filets for later, I always looke them over and pull the visible buggers out with a pair of tweezers.

Bon Apetit...
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: steelheadr on February 28, 2011, 04:56:14 PM
I candle all my bottom fish after cleaning and skinning.  The worms are easy to see and easy to remove.   Occasionally you get a fish with a bunch of "flavor nodules" (round, pussy looking pockets).  These tend to be much harder to remove with any consistency.  Doesn't seem to negatively affect the remaining meat though.

Mmmmmm Flavor Nodules!

-Spot-

did you really think you could slip this one past...
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on February 28, 2011, 05:03:04 PM
Yup fish have worms ...... Especially bottom fish.

I have sold fresh seafood in the Seattle area for the last ten years. Picked out tons of worms.

The important part to take away from that blog is that you have to ingest a whole live work for them to affect you. That would have to be a pretty massive chunk of sashimi and if you talk to any sushi chef worth his salt he will advise you not to eat bottom fish raw.

Don't worry about them at all. If you see one in your fillet, the tell tale dark spot is a give away for those hiding a little deeper in the meat, just put the tip of your knife in the middle of their little circle and use the side of the blade to pop the little bugger out. The lively ones will curl and twist on the cutting board. Hold the fillet up to a bright light to inspect further if you like.

Then just enjoy.

If you want something that will curl your toes look up Kudoa ;)
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: INSAYN on February 28, 2011, 05:31:11 PM
And for the wormies that get overlooked in the thicker part of the fillet, one can just lay the fillet out in a flat bowl in the fridge. 
The live ones will work their way out on their own looking for a new warm host to slip into.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Pelagic on February 28, 2011, 05:46:18 PM
I hold each fillet up to the light as they come off the fish, anything that stands out gets removed,  I just roll with what I may have missed.  I don't eat rockfish/lings raw, but I often eat raw steelhead and salmon right out of the water (can you say on the water Springer belly Sashimi 8)), bottom fish seem to be way more wormy.  I have had to toss a handful of Salmon (never a Steelhead), mostly coastal fall fish, that have had the pus pocket "flavor nodules" Spot speaks of.  You can cut them out, which mangles the fillet as they are generally deep in the tissue or cook them intact, but they liquefy and are just plain unappetizing and seem to turn the flesh around them to mush.   I hear its on the rise due to BC fish farms??
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Spot on February 28, 2011, 07:07:51 PM
I had a couple of lings this year with the pus pockets.  Never seen it in bottom fish before.

-Spot-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on February 28, 2011, 07:43:28 PM
There are more than one type of "puss pockets" the type PP found in ling is pretty uncommon. The Salmon version is call Kudoa. It is more common on Coho and if it is really bad you can feel it through the skin. I have never caught a salmon with kudoa but I have cut many. It the really bad case I call it apple sauce disease because the meat can turn to liquid.
It is even more prevalent in BC farmed fish.

I've also see small hard knots on the skin side of some rock fish. Not sure what they are, easy to cut out.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: kallitype on February 28, 2011, 10:17:24 PM
I'm eating chicken tonight.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on March 01, 2011, 08:05:00 AM
I'm eating chicken tonight.

Chicken is an option .......

(http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/wp-content/uploads/chickens.jpg)
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: amb on March 01, 2011, 05:15:27 PM
This came up during the ORC 2008, and I believe it was Zee that said there were much worse things allowed in hot dogs by the USDA than the worm protein found in rockfish.  I still don't like it and check over my fillets before finishing my cleaning, and remove any I find.  I also prefer my fish well cooked. Just a personal preference.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: rawkfish on March 01, 2011, 05:49:28 PM
Sometimes it's tough to swallow when you take a bite into a chunk of battered and fried rockfish or ling, then look down and see a little fried critter in the meat.  I just figure they've got to be rich in protein or something right?  ;D I mainly pick them out because I don't want to have to provide an explanation to the wife.  I'm not incredibly thorough though.  I do, however, make damn sure the meat is well cooked.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: browneyesvictim on March 01, 2011, 09:13:00 PM
Did anyone else catch who the responsible carrier of the worms is?

 
Dang FURBAGS! AKA "seal worms"!
 :angry4:

Erik
Title: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fisherman X on March 01, 2011, 09:41:29 PM
I'm eating chicken tonight.

Chicken is an option .......

(http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/wp-content/uploads/chickens.jpg)

Not any more
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: craig on March 01, 2011, 10:44:09 PM
Quote
Dang FURBAGS! AKA "seal worms"!

I'm not trying to defend the seals or sea lions by any means, but it is also known as the cod worm.  The beauty (if you can call it that) about parasitology is the circular nature of the life cycle.  Fish has worms, seal eats it, worm lives and matures in seal's gut and uses seal host to produce many offspring which are shed out the back door of the seal to find their new fishy host. Worm babies end up in fish, juvenile worms migrate into the flesh to await ingestion by seal. Repeat as necessary.  It is very common for parasites to require more than one host in its life cycle. Apparently, you can be a substitute for the seal.

I had a zoology professor in college that had a few too many beers with an under cooked walleye. Several months later, he dropped a rather long tapeworm in the toilet.  Being the scientist he was, he collected it and preserved it for all to see. :P
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: craig on March 01, 2011, 10:58:21 PM
I felt I was missing something in the 'how do they get in the fish' part.  Spontaneous generation was disproved over 100 years ago, so I had to look it up.  It seems that crustaceans were the missing step.  They eat the larvae released by the mammal, and the fish eat the crustaceans. So in this case, there are 3 hosts.

(http://www.phsource.us/PH/PARA/Chapter_7_files/image008.jpg)

Ever been to a chicken slaughter house? I had to collect samples from slaughterhouses for a research project in graduate school.  There is a reason there are chicken patties and nuggets.  Hard to sell a hole (pun intended) bird that has had parts removed due to cysts.

Yummy!

-Craig
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: rawkfish on March 01, 2011, 11:00:54 PM
Being the scientist he was, he collected it and preserved it for all to see. :P

 :puke:

Woah... Didn't need to know that.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: coosbayyaker on March 01, 2011, 11:09:33 PM
Beef..It's what's for dinner..especially after this thread!

Makes me glad I've been a well done kinda person my whole life.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: kallitype on March 02, 2011, 08:38:57 AM
We only eat free-run non-caged chickens from Kurt Timmermeister's farm on Vashon....and never eat chicken away from home. for red meat  we eat bison from a friend's ranch in Ellenburg, quit eating beef after seeing the horrid conditions in feedlots.  "Downer cows"?  No way!  Downside of the quality chicken is the cost.   Our bison costs 5.50 lb, see Swauk Prairie bison (and that includes steaks and roasts)  We buy 1/2 a bison in the fall and divvy it with a couple other families, lasts all year, as we eat mostly salmon in the summer and fall.
   I used to eat sushi, but got a tapeworm 8 years ago, it was a nasty experience I won't relate here.... :puke:


 http://www.spbison.com/ (http://www.spbison.com/)

Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Lee on March 02, 2011, 08:43:46 AM
And bison tastes a LOT better than beef imo.  I'm not able to buy bulk though, and the price has gone from 5.99 to 7.99 at Fred Meyer in the past couple months.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: cjb on March 02, 2011, 09:47:22 AM
we eat bison from a friend's ranch in Ellenburg, quit eating beef after seeing the horrid conditions in feedlots.  "Downer cows"?  No way!  Downside of the quality chicken is the cost.   

I wish that quality, smaller scale production chicken wasn't so damn expensive--it's really the last large scale commercial meat I've been buying regularly.  Back when I was growing up I remember my family would all get together and buy a lot of whole chickens from a Mennonite colony and they remain the best chickens I've ever had.

Growing up with a lot of farmers in the family made it pretty natural for me to get a big freezer and buy meat in bulk, but finding a satisfying source of beef has been difficult, since I want affordable grass fed and don't care about organic certification and whatnot.  Going from corn fed to grass fed has also been a bit challenging, since I find there's a distinct difference in the taste of the fat (one quarter I purchased I could barely stomach--that was a long year), but it's better for the animal and healthier to eat.

I'm curious if you bison eaters have done a side by side comparison of grass fed beef with bison.  I've heard that they're pretty similar nutritionally and that a lot of the large scale commercial bison ends up getting corn fed so it isn't as healthy as it ought to be.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Lee on March 02, 2011, 10:12:50 AM
The Bison I buy always says it's open range and not fed corn or given injections of anything.  I know that the source KT is talking about is, or was open range last time I researched them.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Pelagic on March 02, 2011, 10:35:30 AM
I know its a bigger commitment and not for everyone but I hunt all the meat we eat. I personally feel it may be the most humane/sustainable way to source meat.   A Deer and an Elk a year gives us more than enough free range, organic meat/sausage/burger for both my wife and I and my parents etc.  I just made a batch of elk sausage last week and if I only count the ingredients spices/casings/high quality pork raised by a friend, it came out to $1.12 a pound.  Not bad, and its guaranteed to be free of lips and assholes
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on March 02, 2011, 10:41:21 AM
I worked for Whole Foods for 3 years and yes they are higher priced on a lot of things but ALL of the meat is cage free hormone free and antibiotic free. On top of that all the fresh ground meat in the case is ground in house from quality cuts. No lips and assholes and no contamination. All of the sausage in the case is made in house in natural casings. Definitely worth the extra money.
Not all of us can hunt our food but we can all take the extra time to find our where our food is coming from.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Lee on March 02, 2011, 10:48:47 AM
I know its a bigger commitment and not for everyone but I hunt all the meat we eat.

I plan to start doing that this year.  Ravdakot got me into bowhunting back in November/December and we'll likely be starting with turkey in April.  (well I'll be 'starting', he's been bow hunting for a long time)
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: kallitype on March 02, 2011, 04:21:44 PM
oooooohhh---me too me too for turkey!!!   Last 3 deer I've killed have been with the recurve or longbow, with homemade cedar arrows.  Have'nt hunted since we started buying bison, but wild turkey-----yum!!!
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fishman James on March 02, 2011, 04:31:50 PM
I don't think its technicaly a parasite, but when I did an internship with the forest service we would routinely catch lampreys in the screw traps. I've always wondered how often they are encountered attached to your catch??? 
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: craig on March 02, 2011, 05:04:31 PM
I know its a bigger commitment and not for everyone but I hunt all the meat we eat. I personally feel it may be the most humane/sustainable way to source meat.   A Deer and an Elk a year gives us more than enough free range, organic meat/sausage/burger for both my wife and I and my parents etc.  I just made a batch of elk sausage last week and if I only count the ingredients spices/casings/high quality pork raised by a friend, it came out to $1.12 a pound.  Not bad, and its guaranteed to be free of lips and assholes

Mmmmmmm! Homeade sausage!  I love making sausage.  The best weiner's I have had I made myself.  When they are made the real way, rather than the massed produced way, they are a million times better. I used to work in a small meat packing plant when I was in High School through my freshman year in college.  I loved making sausage.  The best I have had is Alligator sausage my wife's grandfather made.  He was from Louisiana.  The Nutria sausage we got from him was not quite as good. 

I like hunting my own food as well.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to the last few years.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: [WR] on March 02, 2011, 06:20:29 PM
The Bison I buy always says it's open range and not fed corn or given injections of anything.  I know that the source KT is talking about is, or was open range last time I researched them.

Out past where Rav lives, on Rich Road, [ used to live in the Vineyards til it went condo] is Johnsons Smokehouse. They specialize, or did 5 years ago, in wild game, and alternative meats like the Bison you talk about. Might be a good place to look.  
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: [WR] on March 02, 2011, 06:23:22 PM
Beef..It's what's for dinner..especially after this thread!

Makes me glad I've been a well done kinda person my whole life.

Mee too Roy.

btw, there's reasons certain religions forbid shellfish and have slaughter standards such as Koasher/ Kasher and Halal. you guys have pretty much hit on the reasons why.
 
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: kiawanda jr on March 02, 2011, 06:50:23 PM
OMG! i think this must be the big one, I've been eating rockfish, lingcod and store bot chicken and beef. how did i ever make this far. Ur killing me.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: [WR] on March 02, 2011, 07:07:40 PM
  >:D hey, don't sweat it, modern medicine has great cures for most of those problems.......
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: kiawanda jr on March 02, 2011, 07:30:53 PM
what? you dont trust the FDA
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Lee on March 02, 2011, 08:00:24 PM
oooooohhh---me too me too for turkey!!!   Last 3 deer I've killed have been with the recurve or longbow, with homemade cedar arrows.  Have'nt hunted since we started buying bison, but wild turkey-----yum!!!

I'll PM you in a bit after I get the kiddos off to bed.

Oh and I absolutely will not touch shellfish.  I was the only one at the crab tourney that didn't eat crab lol.  The ex gf sure enjoyed it though.

I do eat plenty of store bought chicken, and yep, tubes of hamburger too, I just prefer bison - tastes better with lower fat and better cholesterol.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: [WR] on March 02, 2011, 08:43:11 PM
what? you dont trust the FDA

never, ever, trust your health to your goverment
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Sharkbait! HooHaHa on May 05, 2012, 10:11:42 AM
I was told by an old-timer that if you gut the fish before they die, you by-pass the worm issue...he swore by it...
To me, the worms look like they are burrowed into the tissue of the muscle, not the guts...
Any thoughts??
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 05, 2012, 10:37:31 AM
I was told by an old-timer that if you gut the fish before they die, you bypass the worm issue...he swore by it...
To me, the worms look like they are burrowed into the tissue of the muscle, not the guts...
Any thoughts??


Mostly true from what I know. The worms live in the guts and when the fish dies the defences are down and the worms start making their way into the flesh. When filleting FAS cod vs shore processed fish we find 10 - 40 times more worms in the shore processed fish.

The other factor is that the fish closer to shore will also have a larger number of parasites.

I find very few worms in fish I catch off the coast. Holding the fillet to a light source makes it easy to see them and pick them out if there are any.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: sherminator on May 05, 2012, 03:49:21 PM
For those of you concerned about the origins of meat served in restaurants, you need to come to Portland to dine - the wait staff here are used to handling those concerns:

http://youtu.be/l2LBICPEK6w (http://youtu.be/l2LBICPEK6w)
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: INSAYN on May 05, 2012, 06:30:01 PM
Organic....duh!  The damn chicken is not made of plastic.  :happy10:
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: micahgee on May 05, 2012, 07:47:18 PM
Quote
What are parasites?

Animal parasites live in or on other animals from which they obtain at least some of their vital requirements, particularly nourishment. In general each kind of parasite confines itself to one kind of animal or group of animals, known as the host. Some parasites need more than one host at different stages in their development, the adult parasite living off one animal and the young or larval forms living off other animals.

Some fish parasites live on the outside of fish, others within the body; most are removed during gutting and washing. The kinds most frequently met with during subsequent handling and distribution are worms.

Round worms, or nematodes, in larval form are found in the guts and in the flesh of many fish marketed in the United Kingdom; two kinds predominate, the 'cod worm' and the 'herring worm'.

The 'cod worm', which is often found in cod, is also found in many other species. Its scientific name is Phocanema decipiens; other outdated scientific names are Porrocaecum decipiens or Terranova decipiens. It grows up to 4 cm long in fish, and varies in colour from creamy white to dark brown. It is frequently found in the flesh of fish, particularly in the belly flaps, where it often remains for long periods curled up and encased in a sac-like membrane produced by the fish tissue.

The 'herring worm' is often found in herring, mackerel, whiting and blue whiting, but it also occurs in many other species. Its scientific name is Anisakis simplex. It grows up to 2 cm long in fish, is almost colourless, and is found tightly coiled and encased in the guts and flesh, sometimes in considerable numbers, particularly in the belly flaps. Anisakis can migrate from guts to flesh in fish left ungutted after capture (yikes!) , notably in herring, mackerel and blue whiting.

How do round worms get into fish?

The life history of a parasitic round worm is complex. The adult lives in the stomach of a marine mammal, Phocanema in the grey seal and Anisakis mainly in dolphins, porpoises and whales. Eggs of the parasite pass into the sea with the mammal's excreta, and when the eggs hatch the microscopic larvae must invade a new host in order to develop. The larval worms of Anisakis are eaten by a small shrimplike crustacean, a euphausiid; the first host of Phocanema is a small isopod crustacean that lives on the sea bed.

When crustaceans infested with Anisakis or Phocanema are eaten by a fish the larval worms are released into its stomach. They then bore through the stomach wall and eventually become encased in the guts or in the flesh of the host fish. The life cycle of the parasite is completed when an infested fish is eaten by a suitable marine mammal.

Large fish tend to be more heavily infested by round worms than small fish of the same species. This is because large fish eat more, and therefore ingest greater numbers of parasites, and also because the larval worms, although inactive, can survive for a long time in fish, and therefore their numbers accumulate as the fish grows older.



http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5951e/x5951e01.htm (http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5951e/x5951e01.htm)
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 05, 2012, 08:55:13 PM
Quote
It is frequently found in the flesh of fish, particularly in the belly flaps, where it often remains for long periods curled up and encased in a sac-like membrane produced by the fish tissue.

http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5951e/x5951e01.htm (http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5951e/x5951e01.htm)


I have never seen a "sac-like membrane" around worms in cod ... usually just coiled up or sometimes not coiled. This is just my opservations from cutting a couple hundred thousand pounds of cod. Your results may vary.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: boxofrain on May 29, 2012, 07:01:20 AM
Yup, I recently saw an episode of "monsters inside me", the govt studies of pacific rockfish found that over 70% of all species caught had the bad parasite present in the meat. Just be sure to cook the fish well and the worms taste great!
 You can also entice the worms to leave the meat by covering the fillet with lemon/lime juice and let it sit out for 1/2 hour before cooking, they stand right up out of the meat and give you a dirty look!
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: bigdood on May 29, 2012, 10:28:07 AM
*google image search for cod worms*
*quits eating fish*
Title: Fish and Parasites
Post by: IslandHoppa on May 29, 2012, 01:04:09 PM
Colin the Lincoln City Lingcod should be the sequel.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: bigdood on May 13, 2013, 12:58:43 PM
Bumping this old guy up again.  I've heard various ways to supposedly keep the worms from moving into the flesh - gutting at sea, putting on ice immediately (whole), etc.  Does anybody gut their halibut/ling cod at sea to (supposedly) keep the worms from moving into the flesh?  I typically just catch and throw in a burlap sack and occasionally dip back into the ocean to keep cool but am all ears for suggestions
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: browneyesvictim on May 13, 2013, 01:51:48 PM
Resurection of the dead and ugly! I love it!

I dont know of anybody wasting fishing time immediately gutting their fish out on a kayak.

I am a beliver in bleeding out the fish though.  By my observation, that has a very noticeable effect of the meat quality, and that makes seeing and picking out the reddish color of the worms a whole lot easier when the meat is opaque white vs. pinkish-red bloody. This is what I a have found that works for me since I started this post.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 13, 2013, 07:33:13 PM
Bleed out and field dress all animals one intends to keep. Drastically effects the quality of the meat and ultimately slows decay.


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 13, 2013, 08:42:30 PM
Bleed out and field dress all animals one intends to keep. Drastically effects the quality of the meat and ultimately slows decay.


-Rodney-

While that sounds great you are making some very sweeping generalizations there...
I would agree that bleeding all fish is necessary abut I would not agree that it is necessary to dress all fish. Some fish respond differently to being left in the round.
Some species you can leave in the round for a week and still have good fillets. Some you shouldn't leave 24 hours. 
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 14, 2013, 10:38:54 PM
Bleed out and field dress all animals one intends to keep. Drastically effects the quality of the meat and ultimately slows decay.


-Rodney-

While that sounds great you are making some very sweeping generalizations there...
I would agree that bleeding all fish is necessary abut I would not agree that it is necessary to dress all fish. Some fish respond differently to being left in the round.
Some species you can leave in the round for a week and still have good fillets. Some you shouldn't leave 24 hours.
pls elaborate as growing up with a hunting and fishing background I have always dressed any animal no mater what its make up, as to avoid spoilage. Gutting an animal helps bring its tissue temperature down while removing potentially dangerous bacteria, keeping the meat fresh. I can't disagree with you completely Gunnin as I absolutely do not know everything and if there is a species better left in the round I would be happy to learn what species and perhaps why?


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 04:59:33 AM
There aren't species that keep better in the round. Just some that it is unnecessary to gut.
Namely rockfish. Their guts will not eat through the belly lining like salmon or cod will. Simply bleeding and chilling is plenty of prep.
If you want to gut your rockfish on the water go for it but you are asking to cut, spine or otherwise hurt yourself for no marked benefit. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: polepole on May 15, 2013, 08:11:40 AM
There aren't species that keep better in the round. Just some that it is unnecessary to gut.
Namely rockfish. Their guts will not eat through the belly lining like salmon or cod will. Simply bleeding and chilling is plenty of prep.
If you want to gut your rockfish on the water go for it but you are asking to cut, spine or otherwise hurt yourself for no marked benefit. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I dunno.  If you eat your rockfish whole, it will benefit from a quick gutting.  Rockfish can get a slight, unpleasant "belly flavor" if left in the round too long.  If you filet them and toss the carcs, then yeah, just bleed.

-Allen
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Romanian Redneck on May 15, 2013, 08:38:33 AM

There aren't species that keep better in the round. Just some that it is unnecessary to gut.
Namely rockfish. Their guts will not eat through the belly lining like salmon or cod will. Simply bleeding and chilling is plenty of prep.
If you want to gut your rockfish on the water go for it but you are asking to cut, spine or otherwise hurt yourself for no marked benefit. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Fungunnin, could you expand a bit on gutting salmanoid species? By that I mean, say you're fishing kokanee, trout, or steelhead all day and you've got a couple in the fish bag on ice. It's going to be another 7-8 hrs before you get home to fillet them. Assuming the fish stay cool till then is there a drastic difference in the meat quality between a fish that was bled, gutted, and stuck on ice as opposed to one that was just bled and iced?
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 15, 2013, 08:59:29 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: polepole on May 15, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Ummm ... lots of Asian food markets carry fish in the round.

-Allen
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 15, 2013, 09:12:29 AM
You can find out yourself next time your out catch two fish of the same species, area and size. Gut the first immediately and leave the second round. Store both fish in the same fashion. Once home prepare some of each fish in the same manor and you will defiantly taste a differance.


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 09:14:17 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Don't make statements you know nothing about. Any decent fish market will have some fish left in the round.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 15, 2013, 09:19:20 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Ummm ... lots of Asian food markets carry fish in the round.

-Allen
lol I realize there are accept ions to every rule. By market I meant modern north american markets ie Safeway,wallmart ect. not all markets will practice the same preparation methods. Traditional preparation methods will vary by culture. None the less all persons grow up consuming different flavours and as I have noted above the only way to tell is to compare finished flavours between alternate methods of preparation.


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 09:33:18 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Ummm ... lots of Asian food markets carry fish in the round.

-Allen
lol I realize there are accept ions to every rule. By market I meant modern north american markets ie Safeway,wallmart ect. not all markets will practice the same preparation methods. Traditional preparation methods will vary by culture. None the less all persons grow up consuming different flavours and as I have noted above the only way to tell is to compare finished flavours between alternate methods of preparation.


-Rodney-

I'm sorry you consider Safeway and Walmart your fish stores of choice. Though that does speak directly to your general lack of understanding about seafood handling.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 15, 2013, 09:37:42 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Don't make statements you know nothing about. Any decent fish market will have some fish left in the round.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
correction in my experience I have not found any edible game fish kept in the round. My apologies :)


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: SturgeonRod on May 15, 2013, 09:42:52 AM
You will never find a fish in market left in round as it is unsanitary an fish meat will take on the flavour of its stomach and contents.


-Rodney-

Ummm ... lots of Asian food markets carry fish in the round.

-Allen
lol I realize there are accept ions to every rule. By market I meant modern north american markets ie Safeway,wallmart ect. not all markets will practice the same preparation methods. Traditional preparation methods will vary by culture. None the less all persons grow up consuming different flavours and as I have noted above the only way to tell is to compare finished flavours between alternate methods of preparation.


-Rodney-

I'm sorry you consider Safeway and Walmart your fish stores of choice. Though that does speak directly to your general lack of understanding about seafood handling.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
i do not buy of of the shelf fish. I prefer to catch and eat my own fish because I have no faith in the way others may handle such a sensitive staple food. For best quality product I suggest to all to dress the fish as soon as possible.


-Rodney-
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 09:43:42 AM
If you have bought fish from Safeway and Walmart you have.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 09:46:26 AM

There aren't species that keep better in the round. Just some that it is unnecessary to gut.
Namely rockfish. Their guts will not eat through the belly lining like salmon or cod will. Simply bleeding and chilling is plenty of prep.
If you want to gut your rockfish on the water go for it but you are asking to cut, spine or otherwise hurt yourself for no marked benefit. 

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Fungunnin, could you expand a bit on gutting salmanoid species? By that I mean, say you're fishing kokanee, trout, or steelhead all day and you've got a couple in the fish bag on ice. It's going to be another 7-8 hrs before you get home to fillet them. Assuming the fish stay cool till then is there a drastic difference in the meat quality between a fish that was bled, gutted, and stuck on ice as opposed to one that was just bled and iced?

7-8 hours isn't going to change much as long as you get the fish cold.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Romanian Redneck on May 15, 2013, 11:50:53 AM


There aren't species that keep better in the round. Just some that it is unnecessary to gut.
Namely rockfish. Their guts will not eat through the belly lining like salmon or cod will. Simply bleeding and chilling is plenty of prep.
If you want to gut your rockfish on the water go for it but you are asking to cut, spine or otherwise hurt yourself for no marked benefit. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Fungunnin, could you expand a bit on gutting salmanoid species? By that I mean, say you're fishing kokanee, trout, or steelhead all day and you've got a couple in the fish bag on ice. It's going to be another 7-8 hrs before you get home to fillet them. Assuming the fish stay cool till then is there a drastic difference in the meat quality between a fish that was bled, gutted, and stuck on ice as opposed to one that was just bled and iced?

7-8 hours isn't going to change much as long as you get the fish cold.

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Thanks FG
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 01:10:19 PM
I like to gut my salmon on the boat for a couple reasons. One being that I always fillet my salmon after they are gutted and it just seems silly to gut them then fillet right away. Plus a get to leave the messy part out in the water.

Commercial guys will hold salmon round for 12 to 36 hours anything much over 48 hours you will start to get belly burn.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Romanian Redneck on May 15, 2013, 01:19:34 PM

I like to gut my salmon on the boat for a couple reasons. One being that I always fillet my salmon after they are gutted and it just seems silly to gut them then fillet right away. Plus a get to leave the messy part out in the water.

Commercial guys will hold salmon round for 12 to 36 hours anything much over 48 hours you will start to get belly burn.

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I know you can toss the guts and carcass overboard in the ocean, but is it against regs to do that on lakes and rivers?
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Fungunnin on May 15, 2013, 01:56:13 PM
I have no idea what the Oregon regs are.

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Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: sumpNZ on May 15, 2013, 02:35:33 PM

I like to gut my salmon on the boat for a couple reasons. One being that I always fillet my salmon after they are gutted and it just seems silly to gut them then fillet right away. Plus a get to leave the messy part out in the water.

Commercial guys will hold salmon round for 12 to 36 hours anything much over 48 hours you will start to get belly burn.

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I know you can toss the guts and carcass overboard in the ocean, but is it against regs to do that on lakes and rivers?

I can't find much either way in the WA regs.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: revjcp on May 15, 2013, 03:05:39 PM
I'm always surprised to hear the the charters fillet fish when still on the boat.  It is my understanding, from one of the game wardens (or whatever we call them) that you can't do this unless you are completely done fishing for the day and off the water... or at least I am not allowed to do it. 
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Romanian Redneck on May 15, 2013, 03:58:34 PM

I have no idea what the Oregon regs are.

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I live in Washington but fish both. You would think its illegal in lakes, but if its not specifically prohibited in the regs, maybe it's not an issue.
Title: Re: Fish and Parasites
Post by: Captain Redbeard on June 25, 2013, 10:05:12 AM
ODFW marine regulations, page 11 (http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/docs/2013/2013%20Oregon%20Sport%20Fishing_Marine%20Zone%20Regs.pdf (http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/docs/2013/2013%20Oregon%20Sport%20Fishing_Marine%20Zone%20Regs.pdf))

"It is unlawful: for anglers fishing from a boat to mutilate fish so the size or species cannot be determined prior to landing; to transport
mutilated fish across state waters; except that albacore may be partially cleaned at sea. Partial cleaning means only the head and
entrails may be removed; the clavicle (collar) must stay intact and the tail must stay intact. It is also unlawful for anglers fishing from
shore to mutilate fish so that size or species cannot be determined prior to reaching their automobile or principle means of land
transportation, and having completed their daily angling. These restrictions do not apply to herring, anchovy, smelt and sardine."

That reads to me like you could gut a fish, but not fillet it, while at sea (with exceptions as noted).