2019 Outback hull vs PA12, Revo13, 2018 Outback

I put these images together to help visualize how the new Outback hull compares to the PA12, Revo13, and 2018 Outback.





as for my conclusion, I'll leave that to one of my favorite hobbits...just change "pints" to "Ivory Dune".

I was wondering about that comparison.  Thanks for posting the images.

I am seeing more and more kayaks with rear built in handles like the Hobie PA.  Any idea of this is just an trying to look like the PA imitation, or is there actually a design advantage to them?  (I don't own a PA, or a Hobie). 

I am seeing more and more kayaks with rear built in handles like the Hobie PA.  Any idea of this is just an trying to look like the PA imitation, or is there actually a design advantage to them?  (I don't own a PA, or a Hobie).

beyond just easier 2-person carrying, the new Outback comes with the "Outback Loader" that takes advantage of the handle to make 1 person loading easier.



they show it in action at 4minutes in this long video that shows all the new Outback features:

https://youtu.be/2WpHjh02mfo?t=3m57s

I am seeing more and more kayaks with rear built in handles like the Hobie PA.  Any idea of this is just an trying to look like the PA imitation, or is there actually a design advantage to them?  (I don't own a PA, or a Hobie).

beyond just easier 2-person carrying, the new Outback comes with the "Outback Loader" that takes advantage of the handle to make 1 person loading easier.



they show it in action at 4minutes in this long video that shows all the new Outback features:

https://youtu.be/2WpHjh02mfo?t=3m57s

Huh, I was wondering what that was for.

It doesn't seem to make loading any easier, roger, it looks like it's only to protect that gimmicky new rudder.  In the video, they're setting the stern on that loader to keep the rudder off the ground and not holding-up the weight of the stern.

It looks like the rudder is going to make it a PITA to handle that kayak on land.  IMHO.

It doesn't seem to make loading any easier, roger, it looks like it's only to protect that gimmicky new rudder.  In the video, they're setting the stern on that loader to keep the rudder off the ground and not holding-up the weight of the stern.

It looks like the rudder is going to make it a PITA to handle that kayak on land.  IMHO.

in my opinion, "easier loading" means doing the loading with less concern about scraping or damaging anything or having the stern of the boat that is on the ground slip or tilt while you are lifting the other end.  having 2 points of contact keeps the boat flat as you lift, my old Oasis and the current Revo are like the previous Outback, seen below, there is one narrow point of contact at the rear, as you lift the bow, the boat tries to roll to one side.

 

and what you call a "gimmicky new rudder", some folks (including silly people like engineers) will call a design improvement that results in better turning performance and most likely less drag.   

Aw, come on, roger, as an engineer, I could accept that the new position of the rudder might result in a more laminar flow around it when it's centered, but - and this is speculating because I haven't seen one - the recessed cavity could negate that and create even more turbulence than the old style rudder whenever the rudder is off-center.

It will definitely keep it on track when it's stowed, which is something that would have benefitted my old Revo when I was paddling through kelp.

When I started fly-fishing, I put Hobie's (and all pedal kayaks) behind me so it doesn't really matter to me what they change about them.  The new design will help them sell a bunch of new boats, and I don't begrudge them that.

I'm not an engineer but it looks to me like that rudder eliminates the 'twist & stow' system of the old rudder and that alone makes it an improvement to me.  Native Propel and the Hobie Compass have this type of rudder so there must be something that makes it better than the old dagger style.

Dan_E

Aw, come on, roger, as an engineer, I could accept that the new position of the rudder might result in a more laminar flow around it when it's centered, but - and this is speculating because I haven't seen one - the recessed cavity could negate that and create even more turbulence than the old style rudder whenever the rudder is off-center.

It will definitely keep it on track when it's stowed, which is something that would have benefitted my old Revo when I was paddling through kelp.

When I started fly-fishing, I put Hobie's (and all pedal kayaks) behind me so it doesn't really matter to me what they change about them.  The new design will help them sell a bunch of new boats, and I don't begrudge them that.

wait, so you are throwing shade and speculating about kayaks that you aren't really interested in and not considering buying....alrighty then...lol

I've never done any CFD modeling of kayaks but I bet the Hobie guys have, they have plenty of incentive to make the boats glide and turn better plus go faster.  A drop down rudder (the gimmicky one) now used on ProAngler line, both Compass hulls, and Outback.  If the Revo line gets redesigned for 2020 (it is looking real dated now and needs lots of features updated including the transducer mounting...), I am going to wager it gets a drop down rudder also and a rear end that looks more like the sexy one on new Outback.



This video has a decent on the water test that is showing a 6.5mph max for this guy on the new Outback:

I was at Paddlesports Retailer last week and got to demo the new 2019 Outback. It's pretty sweet.  It turns on a dime and they really hit it out of the park with several new options. Sold my 2016 Outback about a month ago.  I'll have one of these in October as a sidekick to my PAs.

Thanks for putting together the illustration.  Judging by how high the foot pedals stick up above the kayaks they have reduced the hight of the 2019 Outback to something closer to the Revo.  Personally I like that, easier to get back on, slightly lower center of gravity.

I was thinking the same thing Rudy.  Maybe I can ditch my "fat-man" step if I get a new one.
That'd be a good argument to tell my CFO.  "Honey, it'd be safer for me if I had this one because I could get back in it easier". 

I would take that speed data with a grain of salt. He whips that hard right turn and at 4:49 he's dead in the water and it shows 3 mph. He then accelerates to 6 mph from that point. Not saying it can't be done, but I've never clocked 6 mph on my Revo. Maybe I just need to get more friendly with the squat rack at my gym. 

I was thinking the same thing Rudy.  Maybe I can ditch my "fat-man" step if I get a new one.
That'd be a good argument to tell my CFO.  "Honey, it'd be safer for me if I had this one because I could get back in it easier". 

you have hit upon another potential advantage of the rear handle, I can't be sure this will work on the new Outback yet but I will be trying it for sure- I put a simple PVC step on the back of my PA12 that I could drop into the water and easily climb right onto the back of the boat, providing a second option for re-boarding.

here it is:


and going back to my very first self recovery practice, way back in 2013, you see me using it:



FYI-  the rails around the back of my PA12 were, silly me, for canine containment.  it became clear real fast that Pepper didn't need any assistance staying on kayaks...as this short video confirms...