NorthWest Kayak Anglers

Regional Discussions => Alaska Kayak Fishing => Topic started by: ppwack02 on February 27, 2018, 09:26:38 AM

Title: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: ppwack02 on February 27, 2018, 09:26:38 AM
My current kayak is an NRS pike and has been a great first kayak to see if I enjoyed the sport. The reason I ended up buying this was because it was inflatable and I could pack it on hikes. I've decided it's time to upgrade and I'm looking for opinions for a good Alaskan kayak. I've been researching kayaks for a while now and have decided I'd like to try a peddle driven one.
 
From reading reviews, forums and watching a lot of Youtube I've come to the conclusion that I'd like to buy a Hobie. I am deciding between the pro angler and the outback. Originally I was all about the pro angler and it seemed like the boat for me. Recently though the more I've looked into the outback the more attractive it has become. I am a bigger guy 6'3" 295lbs, but am working my way down to 250lbs. the pro angler would be more stable and roomy. I wouldn't have to worry about weight capacity and the seat looks pretty comfortable. I try to be out on the water 2-3 times a week. I feel like moving this beast around would get pretty old due to the weight and would probably need to be trailered. I'm not even sure I would use the kayak to its full potential.

That's where the outback has started to appeal to me. I figure I could outfit the outback for the cost of a pro angler and be able to car top it. I'm just not sure how feasible an outback would be with how tall I am and at my weight, even if I'm at the 250lb mark.  I'm up in the Anchorage area so the main use would be for lakes. I'd like to try to do some ocean fishing eventually, but I don't think that will happen this year. I'm open to any suggestions even different brands. I’m hoping to try both boats out when Alaska raft and kayak does a demo this year.

Thanks,

-pp
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Low_Sky on February 27, 2018, 09:47:16 AM
If you are car topping, the outback is the way to go. A proangler needs to be trailered, or hauled into a long truck bed or a short bed with a hitch T-bar. A native propel is about the same size as an outback, but it’s heavier.

For lakes around Anchorage, a PA wouldn’t be a bad choice if you can transport it. It’s be very comfortable for a big guy. If you take a PA out in the salt, you’d be better off leaving the spare paddle home and bringing a spare pedal drive or repair parts and tools. The PA is basically unpaddleable for any significant distance, it’s a human powered boat, not a kayak.

I have a revo 16 and carry a spare paddle, but never use it. I get in and out through our small breakers without it, and it wouldn’t be a nice boat to paddle for long because the rudder is hand controlled, can’t paddle and steer like you can with any other ruddered paddling kayak.


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Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: pmmpete on February 27, 2018, 01:12:28 PM
Paddling the Outback and the Revolution.  Hobie Mirage Drives rarely break on the water, so the only time you should need to paddle a Mirage Drive kayak is for a few feet when leaving and returning to shore, and when going in and out through surf.  On the other hand, if your Mirage Drive does fail when you're a couple miles from shore, your paddle is Plan B.  So an advantage of the Outback and the Revolution over the Pro Angler is that you can paddle the Outback and the Revolution in and out through surf when necessary, and you can paddle them back to shore with no problem if your Mirage Drive breaks down (which may never happen).  I'm a whitewater kayaker, and when the wind and waves get rowdy, I prefer to pull out my Mirage Drive and paddle my Revolution, so I can brace when needed.

Using the rudder when paddling.  The Outback and the Revolution have a small amount of rocker so they will maneuver quickly with the rudder when being pedaled.  When being paddled, they don't track as well as a typical sea kayak, but they track way better than any whitewater kayak.  So you don't need to use a rudder when paddling an Outback or a Revolution, and it is safer to leave your rudder up when coming in to shore through surf.  I can attest that it's a pain in the butt to have to replace your steering lines because you broke them by hitting your rudder on a rock.  It only takes minor adjustments of your paddle stroke to keep an Outback or a Revolution going in a straight line, and those adjustments will become automatic with a bit of practice.  As Low_Sky pointed out, if you leave your rudder down when paddling a Hobie, from time to time you'll need to stop paddling for a moment to tweak the rudder.  However, there may be times where it is worth the hassle of leaving the rudder down, such as when paddling in a cross wind or in quartering waves which keep pushing you off line, because the rudder will make it easier to keep your kayak moving in a straight line.

Big guy kayaks.  Low_Sky, what are your thoughts about the suitability of the 16' Revolution for generously proportioned kayakers?  Do you think that the 16' Revolution handles those who shop in the Big and Tall department in clothing stores better than a 13' Revolution?  My weight and height are relatively average, so I don't know.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Low_Sky on February 27, 2018, 05:55:46 PM
I'm 6'4" and 270 lbs.  With gear, I'm pushing the weight limit of the Revo 16.  It definitely feels a little cramped getting in and out with rod holder and fish finder mounted.  The Revo 16 already sits low in the water and gives a wet ride because it cuts through waves instead of going over them, and with a big boy in the cockpit it's lower and wetter (not a problem for me in a paddling suit).  I'm trying to lose some weight, want to get down to around 220 lbs and see if I can feel any difference in the way the boat feels.  I'm sure having more weight centered higher above the water must make a difference in how stable the boat feels. 
I can't offer any insight into how the 16' would compare to the 13', I haven't test driven the shorter boat.  I think the cockpit lengths are similar, so aside from stability I believe the differences would probably be small. 
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: pmmpete on February 27, 2018, 06:17:26 PM
Low_Sky, what is your opinion of the suitability of the Outback versus the 16' Revolution for a big guy?  Should ppwack02 consider the 16' Revolution rather than an Outback as an alternative to the ProAngler?
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Low_Sky on February 27, 2018, 06:46:02 PM
If he wants to try out a Revo, I’d suggest he try a 13’ and 16’. I think the 13’ is going to be a better fit for most people. It’s shorter, easier to car top, wider and little more stable (my paddle kayak is 13’ and the same width, so stability should be similar). The 16 is a niche boat for people who want to go fast and far. In swells and wind chop, I don’t consider it a fun boat to pedal. You have to be constantly switched on and aware of what you’re doing. I put the inflatable amas on mine on days I’ll want to take a mental break while I’m trolling.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: easyyakker on February 27, 2018, 09:03:40 PM
I like my Pro Angler 14. I do envy the ability to car top the PA.

I'm 6'4" and usually weigh in the neighborhood of 240 to 250 (although I was peddling at 270 for a while there).

I chose the PA because the Outback looked like it would be to small for me. I can stretch my legs in the PA. Looking at the Outback I thought I'd be cramped. To be fair, I've never sat in or peddled an Outback.

Dragging the PA up the beach is tedious at best, exhausting at worst. I haul it around in the back of my truck. I have had it on top of my Subaru, but that was a lot of work.

If you can, I'd highly recommend trying whatever you are looking at on for size. I have to admit I'd really like the try the Old Town they have at Sportsman's just to compare to the Hobie.

Whatever you get, I hope to see you on the water some time this summer.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: pmmpete on February 28, 2018, 06:58:55 AM
ppwack02, have you considered the Compass?  It's between the ProAngler and the Outback in size.  I haven't pedaled a Compass, but perhaps those who have can provide their opinions about that kayak.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: ppwack02 on February 28, 2018, 11:06:33 AM
Pmmpete,

I have looked into the compass. I asked Alaska Raft and Kayak if they would be getting any in. I was told there isn’t a lot of interest at the moment. That being said if there is enough interest they probably will get a few.

I like that the fact that the compass is wider, lighter, cheaper and more simplistic than the rest of the Hobie’s. The cons for me is no 180 mirage drive, carrying handle and I’ve heard a lot of people having trouble with the seats. I haven’t been able to find too much information available on the compass. With the compass coming out this year I’m sure they will make some changes and work out kinks.  If it’s possible I’m going to demo the PA, outback and compass this summer. The hard thing for me though is I feel like you get a much better product for the money with the outback. That being said until I get a chance to demo the boats I don’t really know. Maybe I’d love the compass and the boat would be for me.

The main reason I’m stuck on the Hobie is the mirage drive system. Then again maybe I need to do some more research on other peddle brands.

-pp
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: TP on March 01, 2018, 12:01:42 AM
 I have to say I'm the pretty stoked on the Compass.  This is only after paddling/pedaling it and some light fishing. Haven't spent a full day in it yet.

I really wish that Hobie made it a fully featured fishing boat, as I think it has a sweet spot of a hull design compared to their other models. I would dare say it has the best hull shape of their entire fleet.

For one, it Paddles well(not just pedals), the rudder system is clean(same as the PA series)
 it has built in tracks, not the best on the market but they do the job.

The seat is a little odd, not as adjustable as the ct/vantage but once you have it set up it's super comfortable. We had some issues at my shop with it the first few times but that's just because we didn't have it set up correctly,  the correct option is not the obvious one, and beyond that it's a very simple system. Easier to take in and out than the vantage since it's a bungee connection.

It's definitely a bare bones set up comparatively, but if you give it a little love, you can have a pretty awesome rig.

Biggest downsides to me for the compass:
-No through hull wiring(easy to add)
-No internal access hatches(also easy to add)
and there are a few things you notice compared to the outback or pa, such as the little rubber covers for the inset rod holders(compass does not have them)
Keep that stuff in midn as it adds time and cost to get your boat rigged, hobie has it all lined out on the compass to add this stuff, but you have to cut the holes and add the seals.

The 180 vs GT drive is a personal preference for sure, I have never found reverse to be critical, I prefer the GT that comes with the compass over the 180 since it's easier to repair and work on. but any shop worth it's salt would help make a package for a compass with a 180 drive if that's the direction you want to go.

Let me know if you have any compass or other boat questions, we carry native, wildy and a few other brands for comparison.  my shops a ways from AK but happy to help weather you buy from us or a local dealer(which I always recommend) 

 


Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Arctic Okie on March 01, 2018, 12:31:43 AM
If your going with hobie I would get the outback. You’ll have the 180 which will help a lot catching fish in freshwater lakes here in Alaska. The reverse will help a lot if your in wind working the banks. Alaska raft and kayak said the compass will be 2049 out the door. By the time you do turbo fins and other upgrades, you’ll pretty much be close what the outback would cost. It’s a trade off for sure. It’s either have the outback and do the turbo fins and bigger rudder and maybe fish finder. Or get the compass and have a lil money to play with for upgrades. Couldn’t go wrong either way. There’s no perfect kayak. The best kayak is the one that you will use to get out on the water and enjoy. I say go all out and get PA 17t lol... tight lines. Oh and alaska raft told me you can either pay 2500 for outback only. Or 2649 and get 1/2 off dry suit and 10% off accessories. So if you don’t have a dry suit you can get their cheaper semi dry for 250. Made by Kokatat
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: easyyakker on March 01, 2018, 07:58:33 AM
Just noticed I've been trying to sell (peddle) my kayak rather than propel (pedal) it.

Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Low_Sky on March 02, 2018, 08:33:51 AM
Just noticed I've been trying to sell (peddle) my kayak rather than propel (pedal) it.
Haha, you’re not the only one, buddy. Seems like almost everybody on the internet is trying to sell their boat.


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Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Low_Sky on March 02, 2018, 08:44:43 AM

Biggest downsides to me for the compass:
-No through hull wiring(easy to add)
-No internal access hatches(also easy to add)
and there are a few things you notice compared to the outback or pa, such as the little rubber covers for the inset rod holders(compass does not have them)
Keep that stuff in midn as it adds time and cost to get your boat rigged, hobie has it all lined out on the compass to add this stuff, but you have to cut the holes and add

Maybe I got a lemon, but my Hobie convinced me that the Hobie installers should NOT be rigging kayaks. All the thru hull fitting we’re very sloppily installed. I’d have been very happy to get a virgin hull and a bag of fittings to install where I want. So I don’t see a lack of thru hulls in the compass as a negative. The flappy rod holder covers were also one of the first things I took off my boat. They’re just asking to tangle in lines, and if you’re using the rod holder it will fill up with water anyway, so they only serve a purpose if you don’t fish or don’t use rod holders.

Someone with no tools, time or DIY skills may feel differently, but for me the less Hobie does, the better.



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Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: kardinal_84 on March 02, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
I would weigh in but I only have outbacks.  I have never had the need to go faster (revo) or require more stability (Pro Angler).  Having said that, my kids wants a pro angler.  But I don't want to buy a trailer.  I think am leaning to pick up something more portable this year.  The i11S is tempting (basically a hybrid inflatable paddle board) because I currently have 4 outbacks. 
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: AKFishOn on March 04, 2018, 09:43:09 AM
Sounds like you're already set on a Hobie, but if you want to test ride a Native Propel 13 after break up, I've got two of them.  I'm also a bigger dude and find the P13 to be very stable, easy to paddle when necessary and can confidently stand up to fly fish in lakes.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Mojo Jojo on March 04, 2018, 09:45:58 AM
Sounds like you're already set on a Hobie, but if you want to test ride a Native Propel 13 after break up, I've got two of them.  I'm also a bigger dude and find the P13 to be very stable, easy to paddle when necessary and can confidently stand up to fly fish in lakes.
I can second the stability as TLW has a Slayer propel. I’m 235lbs
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: ppwack02 on March 04, 2018, 12:00:52 PM
AKfishon,

I'll probably be in touch once break up finally happens. I haven't tried any peddle/prop driven kayaks so i'm really open to everything at the moment. Is there a a native dealer up here?

Thanks,

-pp
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: AKFishOn on March 04, 2018, 12:40:34 PM
AKfishon,

I'll probably be in touch once break up finally happens. I haven't tried any peddle/prop driven kayaks so i'm really open to everything at the moment. Is there a a native dealer up here?

Thanks,

-pp

Once in a while REI will get one. And I have noticed that Cabelas is selling them online, so they nay be able to get em up here?  I bought mine second hand.  I've fished a Hobie PA14 and liked it, but I like the cycling motion of the Native better.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: leith010 on March 04, 2018, 06:20:46 PM
It’s interesting that no one has talked about the Hobie Adventure Island.  I bought a used one couple of years ago (single person)  and couldn’t be happier. I can car top it easily. It is set up with two outriggers and is very stable . I only use the right outrigger so I can fish off the left, and I have a downrigger mounted on the left as well.    The outriggers each have trampolines, so there’s a ton of room for gear (or black lab) if needed. I’m hoping to run four shrimp pots this summer at once, and I should have enough room to do that. It’s pretty fast. I don’t feel like I’m wasting a lot of energy when pedaling.  It also came with a mast and sail which I have only now begun to use. The problem is, I’m not sure how many Adventure Islands are available in Alaska.  Also, I weigh about 200 pounds and have no problem. I really don’t know how 270 pounds would work.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: ppwack02 on March 04, 2018, 09:15:38 PM
AKfishon,

I'll have to go in to Cabelas and ask if they plan on getting any shipped up for summer. I do like that the weight capacity is 500lbs. What do you think of the overall quality of the yak? Any complaints or noticeable things to look at? I have heard about grass getting stuck around the drive. I have a 600 dollar gift card to Cabelas so that may sway me a bit.

Thanks,

-pp
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: AKFishOn on March 05, 2018, 03:19:26 PM
AKfishon,

I'll have to go in to Cabelas and ask if they plan on getting any shipped up for summer. I do like that the weight capacity is 500lbs. What do you think of the overall quality of the yak? Any complaints or noticeable things to look at? I have heard about grass getting stuck around the drive. I have a 600 dollar gift card to Cabelas so that may sway me a bit.

Thanks,

-pp

Love the quality, only complaint I could make may be the turning radius, any other issues you may see folks discuss such as cracked drive housings and steering cables breaking have been addressed by Native the past few years.  There are also a few manufacturers selling after-market upgrades that are awesome. Again, not to bash Hobie, but when I stood in my buddy's 2015 PA, I could feel the floor flex which did not give my a lot of confidence for long-term durability and from what I've heard, the new models have even thinner plastic in some areas.  But, if you follow kardinal84, he has been in Outbacks for a hell of long time and I've never heard him complain.  Guess the best advice I can give is try out as many as you can and decide for yourself.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: RoxnDox on March 05, 2018, 07:17:10 PM
Not in AK, but I run a Slayer Propel 13 around Puget Sound.  Quality is rock solid construction, no problems with the rudder system or drive unit (for me, I know others have had issues).  I do have the aftermarket aluminum rudder from Boonedox, which helps with turning radius.  There’s also an aftermarket rudder control lever from Berleypro, which would help even more (increases the swing range on the rudder).  The prop drive is susceptible to wrapping up grass and weedy growth, but there’s a gizmo called Weed Guardian that takes care of that too.

The choice between a Hobie and a Native, for me, came down to how my knees liked the drives.  Our local harbor has a dealer for both, so I got a side by side trial run.  The push-pull stair stepper motion of a Hobie caused painfully stabby feelings in both knees after about 20 minutes test drive.  Flipped over to the rotary bicycle pedaling of the Native, and both knees felt just fine. Made the choice really easy!

So do yourself a big favor and try both!
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: Kenai_guy on March 20, 2018, 09:11:37 PM
I've got an adventure island I'll make you a deal on. 

If you don't want that, Wilderness Way in Soldotna has a selection of Hobies to look at.  And I prefer their customer service to the other place in AK.

I've fished out of revo 13, outback, original PA, and an AI.  All have their pros and cons.  For someone your size, I would be leery of the revo without a test ride.  They can be difficult to get in and out of for a big guy.  The outback is an awesome platform for a bit of everything.  The PA and AI are very very stable and have lots of room to fish from.  My favorite setup for the ocean around here is the AI rigged Polynesian style.  Lots of stability and you can still pedal it pretty quickly to gain some ground if you're fighting the current.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: easyyakker on March 24, 2018, 10:49:02 PM
I can't remember what boats they had, but West Marine had a couple pedal kayaks for sale when I was in there last fall. They were propeller style boats.

One more comment on the Revo. I can remember fishing with someone who had a Revo when the wind came up. He headed for shore and commented how he had to be on top of his game all the way in. I took my time, fished, and caught several more fish on the way in. The water wasn't real fun in the PA, but I never felt unsafe and I was able to float and land fish without any problem.

I'm starting to get the itch to start fishing again. I missed the derby and will wait for a little warmer weather.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: nautal on March 25, 2018, 02:06:10 AM
I would try all that you can before you buy, I tried the hobies ( I like the back and forth instead of bicycle motion) and they are adjustable length for your legs.
I am 6', 220lb. on my hobie drive I use the 5th of 7 leg length setting and I straiten my legs out full.
so you would have two more adjustments on the 180 drive which should be more than enough for your height.
I have put almost 100miles this year on mine without any problems just grease and rinse if you do salt.
I tried the compass and found it too small but very agile in the water.
I put the outback on truck rack but that is getting old.
Get a truck bed extender from harbor freight or someplace.
The Outback is 88lbs empty can be carried but PA is alot more.
Dolly/carts are nice, don't buy a cheap $30 on ebay though.
The seat is very important if you fish all day. My Outback 2017 and the PA's have, in my opinion much better adjustibility and comfort than compass for 8-12hr in the seat. If you want to troll a lake you can do 1-2mph all day without wearing yourself out.
but at the 8-10hr mark you should head to shore for 30min to rest your butt and stand up.
On lakes or rivers manuverablitity is important, unless you fish wide open places you want to be able to get in tight spots and maneuver around trees, sunken logs, rocks.
Saltwater had the outback in 8-10ft swells at 13 sec (noaa bouys) in the ocean can peddle and paddle/fish 8am-630p no problem, I think a longer revo 14-16 would have a much nicer though.
In the ocean or bay the hardest part is the shore break going out and coming in.

Oh and if your going 4mph and dead stick a rock with your peddle fins it will severely bend even the solid stainless masts they put into them.  Luckily, you can still make it home and straiten them no problem. Don't ask how I know this.

Overall you need to try out the different systems Jackson, hobie, etc to find out what fits you before you buy.
Title: Re: Looking for opinions on an alaskan yak
Post by: ppwack02 on June 07, 2018, 08:51:43 AM
I ended up going with an outback. I absolutely love it, just wanted to thank everyone for their input.

PP