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Topic: Whether or not to have an anchor at Swan Island Sturgeon event?  (Read 3420 times)

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the quadfather

  • Herring
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  • Location: Seattle, WA. USA
  • Date Registered: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 47
I realize that people probably fish without an anchor all the time at Swan Island, but considering that I do have the 'Anchor Wizard' system, but I just removed it from my Yak, a few months ago.  Do any of you feel like if I have the option I should put it back on and bring it?   I see that most guys throw a leg over the buoy lines, but maybe fish are sometimes out in open water, and maybe there is enough current that the anchor would be ideal if one had it?

My concern was mainly that it seemed like it could be a safety issue, if I have a large sturgeon that is taking me to task, and wraps around the anchor line.   I suppose in 30-50' of water, I could do a very quick attempt to bring up the anchor, while still trying to hold the rod stable on a fish?     And finally... I probably am over thinking this stuff.  It's just a long way to drive and not have all the tools in the tool box.

Thanks!


craig

  • Sturgeon
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  • Location: Tualatin, OR
  • Date Registered: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 3814
I would bring an anchor.  Holding onto the booms, or putting your leg over them is trespassing.  The shipyards are required by law to have them around the ships to prevent oil from escaping should there be a spill.  Every time I meet with the Coast Guard about work stuff they ask me to ask the sturgeon fisherman to stop doing that because they know I am a kayak fisherman.  The current is not that strong there so it is easy to anchor.


the quadfather

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  • Date Registered: Jul 2011
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Alright, thank Craig.   Yes, I understood that leg over the booms was not appreciated, but just clarifying what is ideal.  If anybody else has any anchor thoughts though, I'd love to hear them.  From most of the video I've seen, it seems that you have some time from when you hook up.. to the fish just being in a pressure pull standoff, before it starts to run.  If this is the case, I would expect to be able to crank up my anchor pretty quickly during the standoff.  I guess?


JasonM

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  • Location: Snohomish
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Thanks for asking this question. Since we're going to have a lot of kayaks there on Saturday, though possibly not quite as many as with better weather, I'm wondering if there would even be room along all the booms when you add in all the boats. I was considering bringing my anchor. Mine is a 5lb collapsible, which may hold in the forecasted 10-15 mph winds. I have an anchor trolley on my kayak and a Quick Cleat quick-release cleat on the rail beside me so that I can release the anchor really quickly. My anchor line has a float on it, so I can just go back and pick it up whenever the reason I had to release it is taken care of.

I'm not sure I'd want to deal with an anchor wizard when hooked into a big sturgeon. I tend to fish in heavier current and/or wind quite often, so I'd be a bit freaked out by an anchor that I couldn't disconnect from my kayak very quickly anytime. If you're already accustomed to dealing with situations like that with the anchor wizard, it may work out just fine for you, though.


the quadfather

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  • Location: Seattle, WA. USA
  • Date Registered: Jul 2011
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Jason,  thanks for linking the quick cleat.   I am not familiar with the Hobie Anchor Trolley.  Funny thing is that one of these was one of many additional items that came with my yak.   But yeah, I hear ya on the Anchor Wizard = No quick release.  Only release I know is a swift interaction with a knife. 

Can I ask, how do you maintain a back log of anchor line, if your anchor line runs through the quick release cleat? It would seem like all your excess is just a random pile laying in the kayak.   If it’s part of the Trolley mechanism, then does the whole thing just get tossed overboard with a buoy, if everything goes South on ya?


kredden

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  • Date Registered: Feb 2018
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Crap, I didn't even think of an anchor.  I don't currently have an anchor trolley or anything set up.  That cleat looks nice but I wouldn't be able to get one before Saturday as the one on Amazon can't be ordered on Prime.  Can't find a list of vendors that might have it in the Seattle area (or anywhere as they don't list who to buy from on their website).

Kevin


JasonM

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Jason,  thanks for linking the quick cleat.   I am not familiar with the Hobie Anchor Trolley.  Funny thing is that one of these was one of many additional items that came with my yak.   But yeah, I hear ya on the Anchor Wizard = No quick release.  Only release I know is a swift interaction with a knife. 

Can I ask, how do you maintain a back log of anchor line, if your anchor line runs through the quick release cleat? It would seem like all your excess is just a random pile laying in the kayak.   If it’s part of the Trolley mechanism, then does the whole thing just get tossed overboard with a buoy, if everything goes South on ya?
My entire setup is the 5lb collapsible anchor, the blue dive reel here, and a piece of rope with a float on it. I am sure the Hobie anchor trolley would work fine, but I really like the YakAttack Leverlok anchor trolleys so that's what I have on my 2019 Outback.

The anchor line is tied to the bottom eye of the anchor with a loop tied just far enough up the line to zip tie that loop to the top eye of the anchor with just a tiny bit of slack between the zip tie and the bottom eye of the anchor. If the anchor gets stuck, a hard pull on the anchor line will break the zip tie and then I'm pulling on the bottom of the anchor. I then pedal or paddle to the other side of the anchor (the side the bottom end was likely facing, which is usually upwind/upcurrent), and pull it free. The reel isn't designed to pull up multiple pounds of weight, so I pull the anchor up hand-over-hand and let the excess line dangle in the water downwind/downcurrent until I have the anchor in the kayak. Then I reel the line back onto the spool with the handle. Note that many of the collapsible anchor spin slowly when they are being pulled up quickly, so it can result in twists in the line. That dive reel comes with 270 feet of line on it, which is the max that it will hold wound absolutely perfectly. The first thing to do is to remove at least 50 feet of that line so that you can actually wind the line back onto the spool after you've used it. :)

I have rope tied to the attachment point on the reel, with this float right up against the knot there, with plastic spacers that I had lying around that the rope would just barely fit through on each side of the float to keep knots from getting pulled through the float. From there, the rope goes through the ring on the trolley (outside to inside) and into the Quick Cleat. I almost always position the anchor at either the stern or the bow when I'm anchored, and they are not exactly the same distance from the Quick Cleat. I have knots in the rope tied at each distance, so that I can put the rope into the Quick Cleat at the position on the rope that will result in the float by the dive reel being just a few inches from the ring when it's up against the pulley. I have about a foot of rope extra past the knots to grab when I need to release the anchor.

When I need to release the anchor when I hook into a big fish or the situation gets a bit sketchy, I can release the rope in less than two seconds (yes, I timed it :)). If there's not a lot of tension on the rope, I can just grab the rope on the outside of the Quick Cleat and pull it back over the Quick Cleat (outside to inside direction) and instantly have it out of the Quick Cleat. If there is tension on the rope, I can just twist the release on the Quick Cleat and the rope is away. Once the fish is dealt with or the situation is handled, I just paddle or pedal back over to the float and grab the rope. :D

One more quick thing... I keep the whole setup in this mesh bag (blue to match the float, of course), which I can also attach with a clip to a pad eye in case I flip the kayak and won't want to lose the anchor.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 02:21:45 PM by JasonM »


pmmpete

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I have a quick-release anchor system which is based on a tie wire reel.  A couple of pictures of the system are shown below, and there is a description and an extended discussion of the system at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=15510.msg168110#msg168110.  I'm thinking of replacing the tie wire reel on my system with a dive line reel like the one which JasonM uses, which is available at https://www.amazon.com/Scuba-foot-Dive-thumb-stopper/dp/B00E698VHK?pldnSite=1.  It would be easier to hold the reel when winding in line, the reel has a built-in ratchet lock, and there isn't a casing around the reel so you wouldn't get line jammed between the reel and the outer casing when the reel gets full.  A similar dive line reel is available at https://www.shop709.com/products/sm-rachet-dive-reel?variant=39819637124&utm_campaign=gs-2018-07-30&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpaiN7P-T3wIVC2l-Ch0gawW3EAkYCyABEgIGA_D_BwE, and what appears to be a larger reel at https://www.shop709.com/products/lrg-rachet-dive-reel .  The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.





« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 05:12:09 PM by pmmpete »


JasonM

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The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.
If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.


Matt M

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If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.

Amen to that, If you've ever tried to break even 40lb braid on the kayak it becomes quite the chore and can even become dangerous on the kayak.
-Matt

Old Town Sportsman 120 PDL


Captain Redbeard

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The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.
If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.

+1 Bolded for truth. Well said!


pmmpete

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The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.
If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.

+1 Bolded for truth. Well said!
The 176 pound test line which is sold with the dive reels I mentioned is intended for purposes such as towing a diver down buoy or guiding a diver through murky water.  Here is an example of why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is more than 176 pounds: suppose you (180 pounds) are sitting in your kayak (70 pounds, plus 20 pounds of gear) fishing with your anchor deployed, a motorboat passes, and the wake hits your kayak, pushing you and your kayak (270 pounds total) against your anchor line.  That is a dynamic load, not a static load; the wake would lift and push you and your kayak.  There might be sag in your anchor line which would absorb some of the shock; your anchor line might have some stretch which would absorb some of the shock; or the anchor might slip on the bottom which would absorb some of the shock.  Or the push from the boat wake might snap your anchor line like a kite string, and you would have lost your anchor.  If it happened when you were diving from your kayak, your kayak might disappear down wind or down current.  That is why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is somewhat more than 176 pounds.


Captain Redbeard

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The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.
If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.

+1 Bolded for truth. Well said!
The 176 pound test line which is sold with the dive reels I mentioned is intended for purposes such as towing a diver down buoy or guiding a diver through murky water.  Here is an example of why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is more than 176 pounds: suppose you (180 pounds) are sitting in your kayak (70 pounds, plus 20 pounds of gear) fishing with your anchor deployed, a motorboat passes, and the wake hits your kayak, pushing you and your kayak (270 pounds total) against your anchor line.  That is a dynamic load, not a static load; the wake would lift and push you and your kayak.  There might be sag in your anchor line which would absorb some of the shock; your anchor line might have some stretch which would absorb some of the shock; or the anchor might slip on the bottom which would absorb some of the shock.  Or the push from the boat wake might snap your anchor line like a kite string, and you would have lost your anchor.  If it happened when you were diving from your kayak, your kayak might disappear down wind or down current.  That is why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is somewhat more than 176 pounds.

Your example is only true if the line goes directly down from the buoyant object (kayak) to the fixed point (anchor). When I was learning to anchor my powerboat safely in the Columbia we always learned to have 1:3 rise-to-run ratio. That is overkill for a lot of low-current situations, but you should have quite a bit of "sag" in your line. When a big wave comes by and the water "rises" your boat slides on top of the water (with very little resistance) towards anchor.

Also, in your example, the line doesn't have to lift you and your kayak, it just has to lift the anchor, which is probably 5-15 pounds. If your anchor is stuck pretty good in sand or muck maybe that's 50 pounds total. If your anchor is truly lodged in a branch or something then, yes, if there was zero slack in the anchor line then it could cause a problem. But that scenario has a lot more problems than that, and if it were me I would prefer my anchor line break in that scenario, because I should have a bunch more anchor line out than that.

Obviously still water and diving are considerations that I am not addressing; I would venture to bet that those are edge cases for most kayak fishermen.


pmmpete

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  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 1989
The string which comes with these dive reels has a breaking strength of only about 80kg/176 pounds, which may not be enough to handle the weight of a kayak against current and wave action, so I'd replace the string which comes with the reel with stronger line.
If I ever get 176 pounds of tension on the anchor line on my kayak, I really want that line to break. The only reason that a line could get that much tension on it is if something went very wrong. I hope I would have been able to either release the anchor line or cut it long before it gets to that point.
+1 Bolded for truth. Well said!
The 176 pound test line which is sold with the dive reels I mentioned is intended for purposes such as towing a diver down buoy or guiding a diver through murky water.  Here is an example of why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is more than 176 pounds: suppose you (180 pounds) are sitting in your kayak (70 pounds, plus 20 pounds of gear) fishing with your anchor deployed, a motorboat passes, and the wake hits your kayak, pushing you and your kayak (270 pounds total) against your anchor line.  That is a dynamic load, not a static load; the wake would lift and push you and your kayak.  There might be sag in your anchor line which would absorb some of the shock; your anchor line might have some stretch which would absorb some of the shock; or the anchor might slip on the bottom which would absorb some of the shock.  Or the push from the boat wake might snap your anchor line like a kite string, and you would have lost your anchor.  If it happened when you were diving from your kayak, your kayak might disappear down wind or down current.  That is why I would prefer an anchor line with a breaking strength which is somewhat more than 176 pounds.

Your example is only true if the line goes directly down from the buoyant object (kayak) to the fixed point (anchor). When I was learning to anchor my powerboat safely in the Columbia we always learned to have 1:3 rise-to-run ratio. That is overkill for a lot of low-current situations, but you should have quite a bit of "sag" in your line. When a big wave comes by and the water "rises" your boat slides on top of the water (with very little resistance) towards anchor.

Also, in your example, the line doesn't have to lift you and your kayak, it just has to lift the anchor, which is probably 5-15 pounds. If your anchor is stuck pretty good in sand or muck maybe that's 50 pounds total. If your anchor is truly lodged in a branch or something then, yes, if there was zero slack in the anchor line then it could cause a problem. But that scenario has a lot more problems than that, and if it were me I would prefer my anchor line break in that scenario, because I should have a bunch more anchor line out than that.

Obviously still water and diving are considerations that I am not addressing; I would venture to bet that those are edge cases for most kayak fishermen.
I was assuming a scope on the kayak's anchor line of 1:3 or more.  On two different occasions I was spearfishing from a motorboat when the wind brewed up, the anchors dragged in a mucky bottom, the boat headed off across the lake without us.  So I prefer a scope of more that 1:3, so my anchor will hold better. 

My point in the example I gave is that a boat wake would push the kayaker and kayak horizontally against the anchor line, putting a dynamic stress on the line.  That kind of event is routine when you're on an anchor.  It doesn't create any danger for the kayaker or the kayak, but it could break an insufficiently strong anchor line.  This risk is also a reason to use an anchor line with some stretch, rather than a line made of Dyneema, Spectra, or some other cord with little stretch, because the stretch would help the line absorb the shock of things like boat wakes.


DWB123

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@Quadfather - Don't worry about scope. There's little/no current in Swan Island inside the basin, and you'll be surrounded by 50-100 of your closest friends, so scope is a bad thing. Just get a 10# or so weight and drop it straight to the bottom, and add a quick-release buoy.  But don't anchor at all unless you have to.

If you don't want to get fancy or buy additional gear, try a https://www.animatedknots.com/alpinebutterfly/index.php to a caribiner to your float. Milk jug, whatever. Then just re-tie when you re-set to different depths.

There will be a TON of people there with lines in the water, many of which will be attached to angry and moving sturgeon. The greater the # of anchors, the greater the # of tangles and lost fish.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 03:09:56 PM by DWB123 »


 

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