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Picture Of The Month



SD2OR with a trophy fall walleye

Topic: Bottom fishing setup - Rods and Reels  (Read 8110 times)

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Lutefisk

  • Rockfish
  • ****
  • Location: Washougal
  • Date Registered: Jul 2017
  • Posts: 115
I've gravitated towards using a couple feet of 50lb. flouro leader for abrasion resistance,

But why flouro for that size of line??? I was told that flouro plastics last for 10,000 years+. So I keep my flouro leaders to a minimum and only with 6 or 8 lb line for steelhead in ultra clear water conditions.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 12:40:02 PM by Captain Redbeard »


[WR]

  • Sturgeon
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  • VFW, Life Member at Large, since 1997.
  • ADTA.org
  • Location: West of Auburn, East of the Sound
  • Date Registered: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 4716

I'm still not sure I understand why folks would choose to use a line with a breaking strength rated several pounds or several times greater then the maximum drag their reel can put on it.  I know that's a bit contradictory because the strongest drag I can set with any of my fly reels is about 14 pounds while  most fly lines are rated at 28 pounds - and although I can get stronger, specialty fly lines for much bigger fish, I don't have much of a choice in line strength for common fly lines.  I use what's there but I wouldn't choose a 28# fly line if a 20# line was availalble.

I'm also unclear on why such heavy leaders - or are 30# or 40# or stronger leaders not all that heavy on conventional gear?  I never go  heavier than 18# Maxima Chameleon with my fly gear and most often stay with either 12# or 15# tops because it seems to me, maybe erroneously, that lingcod have pointy teeth that don't serve them well for biting through monofilament and 12# leader has proven to be strong enough to allow a lingcod to tow me around for a while and to free every fly I've jammed into the rocks, so I don't understand why I would use a heavier leader.  Well that, plus even my heavy flies are so light they suck at uncoiling heavy monofilament - and maybe that's my answer, right in front of my nose.

Kevin  do you tie your own stepped down leaders? If so what's yourv heaviest butt section and how stiff is it?

Basically what these guys are doing with conventional gear is reversing that idea and using a heavier section as shock tippet/ abrasion insurance.

I have a 12 foot 10 weight I use for surf fishing , going after roosterfish and other beach cruising beasts. It can get Damn windy on even the beaches of Matagorda Bay. I put a 2 foot butt section  of veryvstiff 40lb floro on both my lines so I can keep control and turn flies over in higher winds. My tippets? Usually 12-16 lb mono.

Also have to rememberthat jigging for deeper water fish most times involves jigs in the 8- 11 ounce range, or deep baiting, say from a charter boat, they usually start at 8 ounce banana weight and go  up depending on tides/ currents. So, that heavier line helps manage that too
Why so many odd typos ? You try typing on 6 mm virtual keys with 26 mm thumbs....


Tinker

  • Sturgeon
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  • Kevin
  • Location: 42.74°N 124.5°W
  • Date Registered: May 2013
  • Posts: 3304
Kevin,  do you tie your own stepped down leaders? If so what's your heaviest butt section and how stiff is it?

Basically what these guys are doing with conventional gear is reversing that idea and using a heavier section as shock tippet/ abrasion insurance.

...

Also have to remember that jigging for deeper water fish most times involves jigs in the 8- 11 ounce range, or deep baiting, say from a charter boat, they usually start at 8 ounce banana weight and go  up depending on tides/ currents. So, that heavier line helps manage that too

Thank you.  I think the reason I get lost when reading these discussions comes from having some darned toothy fish on the hook without ever having a fish bite through a 12# or 16# leader.  Maybe I've been lucky and maybe it's because the fish haven't been pike or muskies; its just never (yet) happened and I always wonder why such heavy leaders are needed.

When I used to surf fish with spinning gear the heaviest weight I tossed was 6 ounces, but I'd cast those rigs using a 10# leader.  I think my brain keeps trying to equate those rigs with what folks use to jig in deeper water.  This helps me understand.

Yes, I tie my own leaders and always use 8-12" of 25# or 30# for a butt section even in dead-calm conditions.  Without it, the hinge where the leader meets the sink tip makes casting a weighted fly mighty interesting - and dangerous.

I appreciate the explanation.
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


[WR]

  • Sturgeon
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  • VFW, Life Member at Large, since 1997.
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  • Location: West of Auburn, East of the Sound
  • Date Registered: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 4716
Yep you're right about hinging. Have to carefully calculate your step downs for each section as you scale down to your tippet. Had to learn that the hard way over the years.

Here's a wild one: If your thinking about dredging with a fly,  use 30lb gel spun asyour running line, and get some lead core trolling line as your front end, then use the heavy mono for leader. - 
Why so many odd typos ? You try typing on 6 mm virtual keys with 26 mm thumbs....


Captain Redbeard

  • Lauren
  • Global Moderator
  • Sturgeon
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  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Date Registered: May 2013
  • Posts: 3290
I've gravitated towards using a couple feet of 50lb. flouro leader for abrasion resistance,

But why flouro for that size of line??? I was told that flouro plastics last for 10,000 years+. So I keep my flouro leaders to a minimum and only with 6 or 8 lb line for steelhead in ultra clear water conditions.

OK so that makes twice now I've accidentally moderated a post instead of replying to it - my bad. Here's my reply:

It's clear, it's strong, it's stiff, and I like the way it ties knots.


Squidder_K

  • Rockfish
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  • A bad day of fishing is still better than a good d
  • Location: Bremerton, WA
  • Date Registered: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 136
Just grab yourself a Shimano Trevala and call it good.  Tried and true by kayak anglers from NorCal guys to Alaska.  A great value too and very durable. 

Casting reel for lings ( the tranx 400 series is my personal fav) and perhaps a lighter 2nd spinning ugly stick rig for rockfish.

I second the Trevala, been a good rod for me!
US Army & Army National Guard Veteran of 34 years
Veteran 36th Infantry Division "The Fighting Texans!," FOB Danger, Tikrit Iraq 2005
Boston Sports Fan since 1967, I have seen the highs, and the lows of Boston sports teams.
aka Kevin


Squidder_K

  • Rockfish
  • ****
  • A bad day of fishing is still better than a good d
  • Location: Bremerton, WA
  • Date Registered: Sep 2018
  • Posts: 136
I fish for food as well as fun, so I like to get the best balance of cost, durability, effectiveness & quality (in that order). I also agree with the reasoning of Clayman & Matt M. If you're looking for a solid bottom fishing set-up, that's what you should get. You can always have 2 set-ups onboard. You've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread & I'm not trying to sell you on any particular set-up. I've never spent more than $150 on a reel, so can't give much in the way of advice for that.

The Penn Squall is over kill for most rockfish, but I like it a lot for larger lings & cabs. Might work good for halibut also :dontknow: Hope to find out. https://bit.ly/2GRenUo
I don't have one, but the Diawa Lexa looks comparable to the Squall.

For about $60, there's the Penn 209 or 309 reel. Several years ago, I bought a 209 on sale at Bi-Mart for $30. The 309 has about 100' more line capacity. Both reels will provide solid performance for many years. https://bit.ly/2EkemGR

For a relatively inexpensive ($130) & simple (not a lot of gizmos) saltwater spinning reel, the Penn Battle 2 has provided me with solid performance for 3 seasons so far. https://bit.ly/2EmKBW9
Cabela has them on sale sometimes.

The Tiger Elite jig stik (5'8"- 6'6", $80) is as durable as any rod I've used & easily fits inside both my kayaks. I got both at Bi-Mart for $60 each. :icon_rabbit: For the price, it can't be beat, imo. https://bit.ly/2BUZsFFhttps://bit.ly/2GUPWp8
I'd like to try the Daiwa Harrier 6'4" one piece jigging rod. Sounds like they might have better quality eyes. Maybe worth the extra $20.

Many of the older Penn's can do the same thing a 500 Jigmaster, 140 Series Squidder, or even a Surfmaster has the grunt to do the same with a new set of greased drags (Alan Tani setup).  There are now some people who have modded some of those older reels to get unbelievable amounts of drag out of them.
US Army & Army National Guard Veteran of 34 years
Veteran 36th Infantry Division "The Fighting Texans!," FOB Danger, Tikrit Iraq 2005
Boston Sports Fan since 1967, I have seen the highs, and the lows of Boston sports teams.
aka Kevin


 

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