NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Not Necessarily Kayak Fishing => Kayak Sailing => Topic started by: browneyesvictim on March 29, 2016, 03:53:59 PM
-
I will be rigging my new Revo soon. I'm planning on doing the geatrax in the usual spots on both sides of the gunwale for mounting ff and rod holder. I would like to consider adding a sail and furling kit in the near future. Looking at how the factory furling fairlead and ropes go, I'm wondering if there will be room for both. Any advice?
-
I have no first-hand experience with this, but I have been doing the same research you have been doing regarding sailing my new Revo 16. The most useful nugget of wisdom I have found on this is that the Hobie-recommended placement of the furling line fairlead is not exact. It will obviously vary from boat to boat, and can also be re-positioned as needed to clear other gear on your boat. I believe I gleaned that from Matt Miller on the Hobie Forum. Hobie has to prescribe a location in the installation instructions because some people are so mechanically dis-inclined that they would be lost without guidance.
-
Well, I guess ill find out. I see no reason why I cant mount the fairlead on the geartrax. Ill make a little spacer to mount it on a 45' angle. That should make it adjustable fore and aft, but the rope coming back may interfere with the fish finder. Ironically someone had just posted about this on the Hobie forum: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57189
I am considering using Yakataks new anchor trolley system components along the side to improve functionality, aesthetics and keep it all tidy. Surely I'm not the first person to have thought of this.
-
Rigging a new Hobie Revolution 13 with a rollerized sail and furling kit on Gear Tracks.
Although the factory Hobie sailing and furling setup is simple and works, I felt there is a lot left to be desired. I’m upgrading from the factory Hobie hardware to a rollerized pulley system and mounting on modern Yak-Attack GT90 Gear Tracks. I can’t take credit for many of the ideas contained in this article as much of this has been scavenged from around the internet in different applications.
1) Tie downs- I have drilled a hole in the center of all 5 of the threaded tankwell bungee cleats and installed ¼-20 stainless eyebolts with a washer and nylon nut.
2) Furling Kit- The furler is designed to roll up the sail on the mast so you have control of when and how much sail you want to deploy. One association that I made rather quickly was the fact that the furling system shares much of the same concept and needs as an anchor trolley system. So why wouldn’t you want it on rollerized pulleys?
a) Fairlead- The factory Hobie fairlead that comes in the furling kit is just a small double cleat that is supposed to be mounted (permanent) at a 45’ on the gunwale near the mast. This is in a very bad place when using gear tracks and is not easily mounted on gear tracks. I have mounted two Harken 29 Carbo Cheek pulleys on a Yak-Attack JK Hatch Accessory Plate to the forward gear tracks. This keeps the ropes outboard of the hull and away from the rod holder or whatever else gets mounted on the gear tracks. The rope stays alongside the hull, tidy and out of the way! All is good here!
b) The furling rope- By design, the Hobie factory set-up is supposed to just slide through a ring on a bungee at the rear. Again, why wouldn’t you want this on a pulley? I have simply added a Harken Carbo 29 pulley here. Much smoother operation!
c) The furler tension bungee- The hook of the bungee cord is supposed to be attached to a supplied pad eye that is installed at a location somewhere alongside the hull. In my case, the bungee attaches perfectly to the added forward tank well cleat eyebolt. That’s 2 less holes to drill in my boat!
3) Sidekick Ama Mounting- The factory Hobie install uses two 3/8” well nuts per side to mount the sidekick AMA cross bar. I'm not fond of well nuts to begin with, and the bar becomes "permanent". Therefore, I’ve chosen to mount the Sidekick Amas on Yak-Attack 8” GT90 Gear tracks with backing plates.
a) GT90 Gear Track Mounting- Nothing special about mounting your typical Gear Tracks, but in this case there are a couple things of consideration. The narrower GT90s are necessary because of the available width of the gunwale mounting surface on a Revo. Secondly the mounting location prevents you from being able to reach inside the hull for backing washers and nuts or use of Full-Backs, etc. The GT90 backing plates fit perfectly, but about the only way you can get them there is by “Fishing” them in there- such as done with the use of Yak-Attack (small 8-32) Rigging Bullets. Highly misunderstood, Rigging Bullets, are not mounting hardware at all but rather used as a tool! And what a handy tool those are!
b) Hobie Sideckick Ama Gear Track Adapters- Yak-Attack has the adapters to attach the Sidekick cross bar with a T-bolt and Nut for the Gear Track Mounting. Easy on and off, and no big 3/8” holes to worry about later. Easy peasy.
4) Main Sail Line- The main sail line is supposed to just go through the rear padeye (same one the carry handle is on) and the main sail line is just to be held in hand by the captain. Not very elegant, and a lot of loose rope!
a) I have added Harken 29 Carbo pulley on a at the rear pad eye. Less friction, and much smoother!
b) The main sail line routes back to the pulley, and through the starboard side tank well through the tie downs SS eyebolts that I have added. Nice and tidy!
c) Just forward of the starboard Sideckick Ama mount goes a Spinlock PXR Cam Cleat to lock and control the main sail line. This is the item I would prefer to track mount. All I need is track nuts with 8-32 threads. The standard ¼-20 fasteners are too big to fit. So far, I have been unable to find 8-32 track nuts, so I will make my own in the near future. Ironically the devise bolt pattern fits exactly in line with the GT90 button head fastener spacing! I just used longer 8-32 stainless countersunk head screws, but this makes the mount somewhat “permanent”. This bugger is kind of spendy, but is a SWEET devise for this purpose!
Parts as follows:
Eyebolts- http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-4289-Stainless-5-Pack/dp/B00IAVMG8U?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-4289-Stainless-5-Pack/dp/B00IAVMG8U?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
SS Washers http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-830502-Stainless-100-Pack/dp/B00CAG22C6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://Washers http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-830502-Stainless-100-Pack/dp/B00CAG22C6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
SS Nylon Nut- http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-829720-20-Inch-Stainless/dp/B000B4GU0Y?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-829720-20-Inch-Stainless/dp/B000B4GU0Y?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
Harken Carbo 29 pulley- http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-single-block--2042158 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-single-block--2042158)
Harken 29 Carbo Cheek pulleys- http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-cheek-block--2042331 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-cheek-block--2042331)
Yak-Attack JK Hatch Accessory Plate- http://www.yakattack.us/AAP_1022_p/aap-1022.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/AAP_1022_p/aap-1022.htm)
Yak-Attack 8” GT90 Gear tracks- http://www.yakattack.us/GT90_08_p/gt90-08.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/GT90_08_p/gt90-08.htm)
GT90 backing plates- http://www.yakattack.us/FB_GT90_08_p/fb-gt90-08.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/FB_GT90_08_p/fb-gt90-08.htm)
Yak-Attack (small 8-32) Rigging Bullets- http://www.yakattack.us/RB0832_p/rb0832.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/RB0832_p/rb0832.htm)
Hobie Sideckick Ama Gear Track Adapters http://www.yakattack.us/TBK_1001_p/tbk-1001.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/TBK_1001_p/tbk-1001.htm)
SS carabineer-SS carabiner http://www.westmarine.com/buy/suncor--stainless-steel-carabiners-without-eye--P002_060_002_500 (http://SS carabiner http://www.westmarine.com/buy/suncor--stainless-steel-carabiners-without-eye--P002_060_002_500)
Spinlock PXR Cam Cleathttp://www.westmarine.com/buy/spinlock--pxr-camcleats--P002_064_002_524 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/spinlock--pxr-camcleats--P002_064_002_524)
I'm sure there's some Hobie sailors that would like something like this. I would also like to state for the record, I am not “PRO-Staff” or sponsored by anyone, nor have I received any promotional items for this write-up.
-
Thanks for doing this write up and posting pictures. I've been working on adding a similar mod. for my furler kit. I saw a great video that someone did on this on YouTube... but it was in German. So I find your parts list and directions very Germaine to the task at hand. Thanks!
-
That's a slick-looking rig... How does it sail?
-
Dunno yet! I did get out to try it, but that was before I got the Sidekick Amas on. Check it out here:
https://www.facebook.com/erik.schmidt.7374/posts/1104454339593106
-
I have replaced the cleats around the rear cargo area of my Revolution with Hobie screw-in padeyes. http://www.austinkayak.com/products/872/Hobie-Mirage-Screw-In-Pad-Eye.html . Could you have used these screw-in padeyes for tie-downs rather than stainless eyebolts?
-
I have replaced the cleats around the rear cargo area of my Revolution with Hobie screw-in padeyes. http://www.austinkayak.com/products/872/Hobie-Mirage-Screw-In-Pad-Eye.html . Could you have used these screw-in padeyes for tie-downs rather than stainless eyebolts?
Yes. And I considered this, but you loose the ability to quickly release the cargo bungee with those eyes.
-
I have replaced the cleats around the rear cargo area of my Revolution with Hobie screw-in padeyes. http://www.austinkayak.com/products/872/Hobie-Mirage-Screw-In-Pad-Eye.html . Could you have used these screw-in padeyes for tie-downs rather than stainless eyebolts?
Yes. And I considered this, but you loose the ability to quickly release the cargo bungee with those eyes.
I don't use the long criss-cross bungie which comes with Revolutions to hold gear in my cargo area. I use individual bungies with hooks and nylon straps with mini carabiners.
-
Hey anyone have any ideas on some tubing to use on the crossbar that comes with Ama kit. I have an Oasis, and I put some Ram mounts were the crossbar should be mounted. I can remove the mounts and refill the holes and put the gear track on with the YakAttack mounts, or I could possibly put the crossbar behind the front seat. This looks to work nicely, but the crossbar is too short. I bought some 6061 tubing that I am milling to make my own crossbar for that location. Any better ideas?
-
Ill bet you could just use some EMT conduit. Measure or take an ama arm to the hardware store to see what will fit. Might have to buy a 10 foot piece though.
-
I'll give that a try. I have combed most of the aisles at Home Depot, even as far as considering handles for mops/brooms. I did find Metal Supermarket over by Costco off Airport Way (PDX). I bought some Aluminum 6061 tubing. However the Hobie crossbar is an odd size. So I will do a little reaming, a little drilling, and we'll be good.
-
Browneyesvictim, great write-up. If I ever sail my Revo16, I'll be doing something very similar. As for why the Hobie kit doesn't do it "right".... Cost. A cast double cleat and a plastic ring are a lot cheaper than pulleys.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I have replaced the cleats around the rear cargo area of my Revolution with Hobie screw-in padeyes. http://www.austinkayak.com/products/872/Hobie-Mirage-Screw-In-Pad-Eye.html . Could you have used these screw-in padeyes for tie-downs rather than stainless eyebolts?
Pete, what's involved with installing the screw-in eye pads? Drill the right-sized hole and you're done? More than that?
-
Well, I guess ill find out. I see no reason why I cant mount the fairlead on the geartrax. Ill make a little spacer to mount it on a 45' angle. That should make it adjustable fore and aft, but the rope coming back may interfere with the fish finder. Ironically someone had just posted about this on the Hobie forum: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57189
I am considering using Yakataks new anchor trolley system components along the side to improve functionality, aesthetics and keep it all tidy. Surely I'm not the first person to have thought of this.
Hey Browneyes, I don't know about ironic. I'm looking at the coincidence. Red Revo 13 and the same username as yours. MuaHaHa.
-
Rigging a new Hobie Revolution 13 with a rollerized sail and furling kit on Gear Tracks.
Although the factory Hobie sailing and furling setup is simple and works, I felt there is a lot left to be desired. I’m upgrading from the factory Hobie hardware to a rollerized pulley system and mounting on modern Yak-Attack GT90 Gear Tracks. I can’t take credit for many of the ideas contained in this article as much of this has been scavenged from around the internet in different applications.
1) Tie downs- I have drilled a hole in the center of all 5 of the threaded tankwell bungee cleats and installed ¼-20 stainless eyebolts with a washer and nylon nut.
2) Furling Kit- The furler is designed to roll up the sail on the mast so you have control of when and how much sail you want to deploy. One association that I made rather quickly was the fact that the furling system shares much of the same concept and needs as an anchor trolley system. So why wouldn’t you want it on rollerized pulleys?
a) Fairlead- The factory Hobie fairlead that comes in the furling kit is just a small double cleat that is supposed to be mounted (permanent) at a 45’ on the gunwale near the mast. This is in a very bad place when using gear tracks and is not easily mounted on gear tracks. I have mounted two Harken 29 Carbo Cheek pulleys on a Yak-Attack JK Hatch Accessory Plate to the forward gear tracks. This keeps the ropes outboard of the hull and away from the rod holder or whatever else gets mounted on the gear tracks. The rope stays alongside the hull, tidy and out of the way! All is good here!
b) The furling rope- By design, the Hobie factory set-up is supposed to just slide through a ring on a bungee at the rear. Again, why wouldn’t you want this on a pulley? I have simply added a Harken Carbo 29 pulley here. Much smoother operation!
c) The furler tension bungee- The hook of the bungee cord is supposed to be attached to a supplied pad eye that is installed at a location somewhere alongside the hull. In my case, the bungee attaches perfectly to the added forward tank well cleat eyebolt. That’s 2 less holes to drill in my boat!
3) Sidekick Ama Mounting- The factory Hobie install uses two 3/8” well nuts per side to mount the sidekick AMA cross bar. I'm not fond of well nuts to begin with, and the bar becomes "permanent". Therefore, I’ve chosen to mount the Sidekick Amas on Yak-Attack 8” GT90 Gear tracks with backing plates.
a) GT90 Gear Track Mounting- Nothing special about mounting your typical Gear Tracks, but in this case there are a couple things of consideration. The narrower GT90s are necessary because of the available width of the gunwale mounting surface on a Revo. Secondly the mounting location prevents you from being able to reach inside the hull for backing washers and nuts or use of Full-Backs, etc. The GT90 backing plates fit perfectly, but about the only way you can get them there is by “Fishing” them in there- such as done with the use of Yak-Attack (small 8-32) Rigging Bullets. Highly misunderstood, Rigging Bullets, are not mounting hardware at all but rather used as a tool! And what a handy tool those are!
b) Hobie Sideckick Ama Gear Track Adapters- Yak-Attack has the adapters to attach the Sidekick cross bar with a T-bolt and Nut for the Gear Track Mounting. Easy on and off, and no big 3/8” holes to worry about later. Easy peasy.
4) Main Sail Line- The main sail line is supposed to just go through the rear padeye (same one the carry handle is on) and the main sail line is just to be held in hand by the captain. Not very elegant, and a lot of loose rope!
a) I have added Harken 29 Carbo pulley on a at the rear pad eye. Less friction, and much smoother!
b) The main sail line routes back to the pulley, and through the starboard side tank well through the tie downs SS eyebolts that I have added. Nice and tidy!
c) Just forward of the starboard Sideckick Ama mount goes a Spinlock PXR Cam Cleat to lock and control the main sail line. This is the item I would prefer to track mount. All I need is track nuts with 8-32 threads. The standard ¼-20 fasteners are too big to fit. So far, I have been unable to find 8-32 track nuts, so I will make my own in the near future. Ironically the devise bolt pattern fits exactly in line with the GT90 button head fastener spacing! I just used longer 8-32 stainless countersunk head screws, but this makes the mount somewhat “permanent”. This bugger is kind of spendy, but is a SWEET devise for this purpose!
Parts as follows:
Eyebolts- http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-4289-Stainless-5-Pack/dp/B00IAVMG8U?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-4289-Stainless-5-Pack/dp/B00IAVMG8U?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
SS Washers http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-830502-Stainless-100-Pack/dp/B00CAG22C6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://Washers http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-830502-Stainless-100-Pack/dp/B00CAG22C6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
SS Nylon Nut- http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-829720-20-Inch-Stainless/dp/B000B4GU0Y?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00 (http://www.amazon.com/Hillman-Group-829720-20-Inch-Stainless/dp/B000B4GU0Y?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00)
Harken Carbo 29 pulley- http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-single-block--2042158 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-single-block--2042158)
Harken 29 Carbo Cheek pulleys- http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-cheek-block--2042331 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/harken--29mm-carbo-air-cheek-block--2042331)
Yak-Attack JK Hatch Accessory Plate- http://www.yakattack.us/AAP_1022_p/aap-1022.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/AAP_1022_p/aap-1022.htm)
Yak-Attack 8” GT90 Gear tracks- http://www.yakattack.us/GT90_08_p/gt90-08.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/GT90_08_p/gt90-08.htm)
GT90 backing plates- http://www.yakattack.us/FB_GT90_08_p/fb-gt90-08.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/FB_GT90_08_p/fb-gt90-08.htm)
Yak-Attack (small 8-32) Rigging Bullets- http://www.yakattack.us/RB0832_p/rb0832.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/RB0832_p/rb0832.htm)
Hobie Sideckick Ama Gear Track Adapters http://www.yakattack.us/TBK_1001_p/tbk-1001.htm (http://www.yakattack.us/TBK_1001_p/tbk-1001.htm)
SS carabineer-SS carabiner http://www.westmarine.com/buy/suncor--stainless-steel-carabiners-without-eye--P002_060_002_500 (http://SS carabiner http://www.westmarine.com/buy/suncor--stainless-steel-carabiners-without-eye--P002_060_002_500)
Spinlock PXR Cam Cleathttp://www.westmarine.com/buy/spinlock--pxr-camcleats--P002_064_002_524 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/spinlock--pxr-camcleats--P002_064_002_524)
I'm sure there's some Hobie sailors that would like something like this. I would also like to state for the record, I am not “PRO-Staff” or sponsored by anyone, nor have I received any promotional items for this write-up.
Great rig. I've studied your post ad nauseam, ask my wife haha. I used a lot of your ideas, thank you. The pulleys in front really smoothed out the furling process. I made the support for the pulleys out of cutting board and mounted to geartrax like yours. I'm still waiting for a pulley for the rear of the control line which should make it even smoother, silicon spray in the mast tube and on the shaft really helps too. A lot of people commented on the control line running out of travel before the sail was fully furled, I had the same experience. I think the supplied cordage is too short. What I did discover was a work around. If you reach forward and grab the side of the cord which furls your sale and pull on it, if it runs short of travel maitain your grip of it and push it backtowards the mast. Pushing it has the effect of loosening the tension of it sufficiently that the cord will run back over the roller on the mast without unfurling it again. Then you can pull back on it to complete the furling. I dont know if I explained it well but it seems to work for me with speed and effectively.
Thanks again for a great post.
-
I had the Hobie furling system on my Rev11 and found it overly complicated and finicky to use, I did a lot of the upgrades suggested by others but ultimately I found that I could not trust it to furl the sail in a stiff breeze when I needed it, the rope slipped and left me in a dangerous position. I went back to my homemade PVC furler and find it much simpler and trustworthy, I did leave the Hobie furler on the mast and use it as a base for the diy unit but trimmed the bungee cord hook off and use the cord on it to secure mast to kayak
-
I had the Hobie furling system on my Rev11 and found it overly complicated and finicky to use, I did a lot of the upgrades suggested by others but ultimately I found that I could not trust it to furl the sail in a stiff breeze when I needed it, the rope slipped and left me in a dangerous position. I went back to my homemade PVC furler and find it much simpler and trustworthy, I did leave the Hobie furler on the mast and use it as a base for the diy unit but trimmed the bungee cord hook off and use the cord on it to secure mast to kayak
Hey Voyager got any photos? It might help some. Have you tried cleaning out the inside of the mast tube. My control line was slipping too, prob was before I got the sail I used the tube for a 1/2 pvc camera mount, the pvc was a loose fit so I had wrapped duct tape around it to improve the fit. That plus water was always in there left a residue that was enough to drag on the mast when furling. I cleaned it out with soap then alcohol and a bottle brush, dried and sprayed silicone and that fixed it, no more binding.