NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Drillin' & Cuttin' => Topic started by: ZeeHawk on April 08, 2010, 01:48:05 PM
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There's a few ways to install a transducer but the way that I've done it for the last few kayaks is the foam puck and water method. It's simple and if there's any mistakes made it's easy to hit the restart button without damaging your transducer.
• First, get a piece of your favorite closed cell foam. I like jumbo pool noodles for their frugality. About $1 each for a 6' length. You can use the scrap to make all kinds of other things.
• Cut a 2" thick slice off one end. On the cut side you'll put your transducer over it in the center and trace around it using a black marker. Cut inside of that line so when you push the transducer inside it's held snugly in place. *The puck in the pic is pretty worn and dingy since it's been recycled. Now installed on it's 4th yak.
• Use some sandpaper to lightly sand the area where the transducer will go then wipe it clean. I don't think it really matters where but it must be flat and level to get it shooting straight down. Most people like it accessible through the front hatch in a place where it's a little out of the way.
• Put your favorite marine adhesive on the foam and press down in the install area. I like to put a bead on the outside edges of the puck also to make sure there's a good seal. Put something heavy on top of it and let it dry overnight.
*marine or plumbing Goop work well and are easy to remove. Some use epoxy but I can't comment
on it's performance since I have no experience with it.
• Once it's dry you'll notice that some Goop oozed into the area where the transducer will go. With a sharp Xacto knife trace the inside. Don't push too hard, you only want to cut the Goop. Then remove the scrap.
• When you're ready to fish, fill the puck with water and push the transducer in until it's snug and water is gurgling out. Make sure it's level and you're ready to fish!
For others that have used this method feel free to post up pics.
BTW a big thanks to whoever invented this!
Z
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Thanks Zee--very helpful post.--this chore is on my todo list and I'll have to get to it soon.
T2
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Thanks! this is is the method I am going to use instead of the temporary test I posted here http://oregonkayakfishing.org/?p=257 (http://oregonkayakfishing.org/?p=257) on my blog.
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An excellent method, and neater than the somewhat sloppy-looking putty dam. It might be good to use 2 coats of Goop on the puck---coat the botom, let it dry overnight, and then another coat to glue it down. That will keep water from seeping out the bottom edges, which happened to me with one coat of Goop on a puck made from black packing foam, the pool noodle foam might be more impervious.
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The Hobie Mirage drive drops through the boat and the flippers extend into the water. When mounting a transducer it is important to place the transducer such that when extended the mirage drive flippers do not impinge on the transducer sound cone.
A typical transducer sound cone is 60 degrees. The turbo flippers extend 16" below the hull. With basic trigonometry we can calculate the transducer must be at least 9.25" from the edge of the flippers. If the transducer is mounted just forward or just aft of the mirage drive hull cut out, when the flippers are extended they will be in the transducer cone. To clear the flippers I chose to mount the transducer just aft of the crotch hatch. This places the transducer under the seat, near the center of the boat.
(http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Battery.Transducer.Hull/Flippers.Transducer.Cone.jpg)
Cut foam installed on hull. A nice oozed bead of Marine Goop can be seen around the foam.
(http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Battery.Transducer.Hull/Foam.Transducer.Mount.Hatch.1024.jpg)
Use water first and see how it works. I used water then changed to marine grease.
Note from the future: ... It appears that after a year or two the grease seeped past the thermocouple button into the transducer and degraded its performance. After struggling for a year trying to figure out what was wrong, I'm back to water with a new transducer ... YMMV ...
One more note from the future: cut a small notch in the foam extending forward from the point of the transducer, and cut a small notch out of the foam behind one back corner of the transducer. This will allow water to flow under and around the transducer when filling the block regardless of how tight a fit your transducer is. These are tiny notches. A large syringe works well for filling - NO NEEDLE. Now, onward into the past ...
The final step was to put about an 1/8" layer of grease in the foam cup and press fit the transducer into the foam until it contacted the hull. DO NOT USE TOO MUCH GREASE. Unlike water the grease is very viscous and nearly impossible to squish out the excess without blowing out the seal on the foam reservoir. Also floating the transducer on a layer of grease above the hull will GREATLY affect transducer performance. I had to remount the transducer 3 times, with less and less grease each time. Learn from my experience.
(http://www.demonick.com/kayak/HMR/Battery.Transducer.Hull/Transducer.Grease.Hatch.1024.jpg)
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Zee-i'm finally getting around to installing my transducer. Did you install yours forward of the mast holder or behind it?
T2
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tsquared. I mounted my foam puck transducer on my Revo right behind that mast. Have not had any issues with disturbance from the Mirage Drive. I wanted it out of the way for more accesable storage in the front hatch area. I also just use water to fill the puck and carry a small bottle :spittake:(water)just in case it needs to be refilled which has been rare. Not sure where Zee mounts his.
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tsquared. I mounted my foam puck transducer on my Revo right behind that mast. Have not had any issues with disturbance from the Mirage Drive. I wanted it out of the way for more accesable storage in the front hatch area. I also just use water to fill the puck and carry a small bottle :spittake:(water)just in case it needs to be refilled which has been rare. Not sure where Zee mounts his.
+1
Same thing here, behind the mast filled with H20. Never had issues with the flippers giving off a bad signal on my Cuda.
I have the battery in a dry bag clipped to the mast.
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Thanks guys--that's where I'll put it too.
T2
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Thanks all, about to give that a try, been hesitating, saw the duct tape and goop method but was scared if I messed it up, this makes more sense, I don't think I have a perfectly flat spot except the center beam on my X-factor. And please excuse a stupid question but why the water in the puck?
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Thanks all, about to give that a try, been hesitating, saw the duct tape and goop method but was scared if I messed it up, this makes more sense, I don't think I have a perfectly flat spot except the center beam on my X-factor. And please excuse a stupid question but why the water in the puck?
You have to remove any air under the 'ducer, or it will show false signals.
Gooping directly to the hull works too, but can eventually start to fail if the Goop starts to let go anywhere and creates air bubbles.
Grease also works, but is messy to deal with and if you have to do it over in the field you may have difficulty finding grease.
Water on the other hand is pretty much right where you launch, or in your water bottle. So, supply and mess isn't an issue.
There isn't much reason to try to trap it in there forever either. When I flip my kayak over, ALL of it drains out and evaporates eventually.
I keep my FF/GPS and battery all in a dry bag that is transferable to my other kayaks, so the 'ducer gets pulled from the puck every trip.
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Thanks INSAYN, you partially answered another one of my questions. I want it to be transferable but that seems to negate a watertight seal around the cable. What was your solution?
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Thanks INSAYN, you partially answered another one of my questions. I want it to be transferable but that seems to negate a watertight seal around the cable. What was your solution?
With the Hobie Revo, I run the cable under the front hatch. It seals it up good enough, and would only take on water if I were to have the kayak upside down, and slowly at that.
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Thanks again, was thinking of that on my X-factor, seems like that seal has some give.
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Saw this option for installing a transducer. Just wanted to add it to the forum in addition to the foam puck method. I am using the foam puck approach but like most of us, always looking for a better mouse trap.
The best way to install a transducer on a kayak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEZ9_C1iKP0#)
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Saw this option for installing a transducer. Just wanted to add it to the forum in addition to the foam puck method. I am using the foam puck approach but like most of us, always looking for a better mouse trap.
The best way to install a transducer on a kayak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEZ9_C1iKP0#)
Don't watch that video if operating heavy machinery, may induce drowsiness.
Probably stickier than an earlier mentioned version that suggested plumbers putty.
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I've found this to be the best way. Unless you plan to put the Transducer in another boat in the future.
(http://www.loctiteproducts.com/img/products/big/epxy_plstc_s.png)
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Lee, for real this works? Put water under it afterwards?
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No water needed at all. Stick it in the hull and forget about it. Rav and I both use that setup. Solid performance.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
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I'll be converting from the foam puck and grease mount to the plumber's putty (Duct Seal) in the near future.
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Interesting. I made my foam pucks for my Ultimate 12 and mini-drifter from 2" thick closed cell urethane foam and glued them down with Marine Goop. They have high sides, a snug fit, and haven't leaked yet in over 2 years, maybe 3.
I've been using an external custom mount on my Tarpon 140. It attaches to the stern via a special bracket I made that uses the existing screws for attaching a rudder. I have been waiting to get a better FF with gps before I do an under deck installation. I've been using the same FF on all my boats.
The Duct Seal looks pretty quick and easy. I have a bunch of the urethane foam, though, and it seems to work. I might try that Locktite epoxy plastic bonder to glue it down, instead of Marine Goop. Looks like useful stuff to have around the shop, anyway.
Lee, that glue looks pretty good, if you want a permanent fix. Thanks for the info. I assume it can be used without creating any air bubbles under the transducer.
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I assume it can be used without creating any air bubbles under the transducer.
I didn't have problems with air bubbles. Make sure it's warm ( above 65) and put extra on, then set the puck down on one edge and push down flat. That creates almost no space with minimal epoxy between. I should note that I sanded both the puck and the hull prior to applying the epoxy. It's technically not recommended for polyethylene, but I've dropped the kayak several times and bounced it all over in the surf, and the mounting held just fine.
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Anyone know where you can actually purchase some of that duct seal in the PDX area? I've been to Lowe's, Home Depot, and Ace...no beans. Most employees keep trying to sell me the plumbers putty but it just doesn't seem like it will work the same.
I can order online, but would like to have it now.
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Anyone know where you can actually purchase some of that duct seal in the PDX area? I've been to Lowe's, Home Depot, and Ace...no beans. Most employees keep trying to sell me the plumbers putty but it just doesn't seem like it will work the same.
I can order online, but would like to have it now.
I tried the plumbers putty from Home Depot. Pretty crappy stuff. Doesn't hold and doesn't seem to like salt water much. Or bumpy waves. I'm switching back to the puck on the new boat.
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Anyone know where you can actually purchase some of that duct seal in the PDX area? I've been to Lowe's, Home Depot, and Ace...no beans. Most employees keep trying to sell me the plumbers putty but it just doesn't seem like it will work the same.
I can order online, but would like to have it now.
did you look through the electrical section at home depot? That's where it should be, not in the plumbing section.
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As Lee indicated.....the electrical dept. in Home Depot.......It's made by GB...."Gardner Bender"....in a white plastic bag, 1 pound pug.
My bag has bar code # 32076 80110 :banjo:
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did you look through the electrical section at home depot? That's where it should be, not in the plumbing section.
Yep that's where it's at: I went back to the same Home Depot that "didn't carry it" last night and found it in the electrical department.
Thanks again Lee
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Looks like Hobie is stepping up the game on Fish Finders:
Mirage Pro Angler 12, Lowrance Ready (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-zDrsLfz-M#ws)
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That boat is awesome. I'm really thinking about adding a PA12 to the fleet. A lot of fun and extremely comfortable to sit in.
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trying to find out if you can do this with any transducer or duz it have to be a "thru hull" transducer?? I have a 3 year old himmingbird fishfinder pretty basic
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Most any transducer works, doesn't have to be a thru hull model.
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thats great, after posting my question I actually found the manual onlimne and its going to work out good. just got my trist seal 6inch cap and some marine goop, just need to carve out some foam and cut some holes and Im ready to go!!!
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here is my installation:
Nucanoe_fish_finder_installation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVFd15uSK6Y#)
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I have done two fishfinder installs using the duct seal method, now, and both times it has been extremely easy and quick. My first install was the foam method on my Cobra Fish and Dive, and it never really worked well. I blame myself mostly for lacking patience. Either way, I will not ever go back to the foam puck, unless for some reason the duct seal doesn't work out long term. Definitely get the duct seal and not plumbers putty.
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Keep us up to date with any issues. I've tried a number of in-the-hull mounts for my Humminbird transom transducer including Duct Seal, and have gone back to a foam puck and water. However, I do not know whether my transducer failure was due to the Duct Seal or not.
If you have not seen the existing thread(s) search "Duct Seal" under "Drillin' & Cuttin" with me as the user.
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Foam puck + water OR Duct Seal?
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Foam puck + water OR Duct Seal?
Foam puck liberally GOOPed down and water.
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Foam puck + water OR Duct Seal?
Foam puck liberally GOOPed down and water.
+1
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One other detail regarding the foam puck method. I only use fresh water to fill the puck. As mentioned above I carry a large syringe (25ml) sans the needle and use it to suck water from my water bottle to fill the foam puck. This keeps the puck and transducer clean.
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I searched online for the best Glue and read that Gorilla Glue was the best for just about anything. Goop was rated #2. So I decided to try Gorilla Glue to mount my foam puck in the TI. Gorilla Glue is supposed to be water activated so I dampened both the hull and puck then applied the glue to the puck and pressed it onto the hull. Let it cure overnight and was very disappointed to see the glue stuck only to the puck and came off in one piece from the hull leaving not a trace. Guess I'll try again with Goop in my Trident 12.
On the bright side, this motivated me to create an external transducer mount for my Elite5 DSI. That came out awesome, will post up some pics separately.
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Rough up the spot where you're going to stick it with a little sandpaper maybe.
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Duh, thanks for the tip, I definitely will do that before next try.
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Foam puck + water OR Duct Seal?
Foam puck liberally GOOPed down and water.
Thank you for the advice! Worked like a charm!
Outfitting your kayak is like sex, only better! Kidding! Kidding! Sex is still better. :D
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This is not a puck, so technically it is an off-topic, but it is still a transducer installation.
I know that it may not work for a lot of folks, but it is OK with me as I don't use Hobie cart. Holes still can drain water. The reason why I decided to give a try to another approach is because hull plastic absorbs too much of transducer power and a 1200 ft transducer don't see bottom after 500ft. I also added water speed gauge as it seems to be very important for trolling.
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Are you worried about banging up the transducer having it hanging it out the bottom like that. What happens when you drag your yak onto a beach?
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Are you worried about banging up the transducer having it hanging it out the bottom like that. What happens when you drag your yak onto a beach?
Nah... Not really worried. Outback has quite deep "keel" and both transducer and speed gauge are "hiding" good enough. I will take a picture from a side once I will get home.
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Actually I was just partially correct. Transducer is OK, but speed gauge touches sand during beaching and actually shows some wear. Interesting thing that speed gauge has to be fully submersed, so there is no way to make a puke for it.
Transducer pictures.
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Speed gauge pictures.
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I don't know how long this thru-the-hull transducer has been around, but I just saw it. If you have $97.43 you want to lay out you can get one from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G6633Q/ref=pe_225870_112512140_em_1p_0_ti (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G6633Q/ref=pe_225870_112512140_em_1p_0_ti)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vCghM-NdL._SX300_.jpg)
Seems this would be the best solution but just a little pricey for me. I'm currently using the duct-seal-well method. It seems to be working okay, but I just wonder about the effect of shooting through the hull. My friend's in-the-water transducer signals more fish. He said mine was too cheap, Humminbird 153, at about $80, and wouldn't detect as many fish :). He didn't catch any in his powerboat nor did I in my Hobie Revolution, so....
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The way I did it, was to cut about a 4" long piece of 4" pvc, used duct seal (purchased on ebay or amazon) to attach the pvc to the inside of the hull, just behind the mast post of my Hobie. I just plop my transducer in the pvc well, which I then fill with water from a water bottle. I have never had a single issue with this setup, no bubbles, nothing.
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Jerry, someone did a comparison of thru-hull vs. open transducer efficiency a while back. Might want to try a search for it, but as I recall, there's a negligible difference between the two for clarity, depth, and detail.
I don't know how long this thru-the-hull transducer has been around, but I just saw it. If you have $97.43 you want to lay out you can get one from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G6633Q/ref=pe_225870_112512140_em_1p_0_ti (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000G6633Q/ref=pe_225870_112512140_em_1p_0_ti)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41vCghM-NdL._SX300_.jpg)
Seems this would be the best solution but just a little pricey for me. I'm currently using the duct-seal-well method. It seems to be working okay, but I just wonder about the effect of shooting through the hull. My friend's in-the-water transducer signals more fish. He said mine was too cheap, Humminbird 153, at about $80, and wouldn't detect as many fish :). He didn't catch any in his powerboat nor did I in my Hobie Revolution, so....
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The way I did it, was to cut about a 4" long piece of 4" pvc, used duct seal (purchased on ebay or amazon) to attach the pvc to the inside of the hull, just behind the mast post of my Hobie. I just plop my transducer in the pvc well, which I then fill with water from a water bottle. I have never had a single issue with this setup, no bubbles, nothing.
If you want a slightly more permanent solution you can take electrical putty, roll it into tight ball, and press the transducer into the ball against the hull. I've done this with multiple kayaks as long as you get the air out of the ball it works great.
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I like that idea, and might give it a try, but I also kind of like being able to more easily move or remove the transducer. I've always tended to strip almost all accessories off my boat for travel and storage. I'm sure it's not necessary...
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I like that idea, and might give it a try, but I also kind of like being able to more easily move or remove the transducer. I've always tended to strip almost all accessories off my boat for travel and storage. I'm sure it's not necessary...
I've always kept the transducer attached to the kayak. The putty will keep it attached for years without issue, but if you wanted to remove it you can just pull it off with a little bit of force.
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Yeah, that putty is good stuff. Lots of uses. I probably will end up ditching the pvc and just do putty. Thanks for the input!