NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Don't Ask Me How I Know => Topic started by: Ling ling, Herro? on May 26, 2014, 10:44:39 PM
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It finally happened, and it came without much warning.
I wanted to take the shortcut back to Sunset and decided to cross over the sandbar at Squaw Island. As I approached the beach I paid close attention to see if the swell was breaking in the shallows. Everything looked good so I started heading in slowly. The surf was breaking right on the sandbar so I didn't expect any trouble. Then suddenly...a tiny little breaker sends me into the water.
When I popped up I immediately flipped my kayak and assessed the damage.
One Plano box full of jigs, GoPro monopod/flag pole, water bottle and 50lb spool of mono leader all floating in the surf zone. I'm still not sure how the other Plano boxes in my milk crate didn't dump. I was relieved to see that none of my three rods were broken.
I met up that day with a newbie kayak fishermen and one of the first things he asked me before we launched is if I had ever flipped my kayak. My reply "Not yet".
That bastard cursed me! Haha...
At the end of the video you can see the newbie paddling his ass off to get to shore. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyFT-kX_bQg
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Welcome to the club, nice vid.
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Ling Ling herro,
Good job on getting back upright. You were so close---yet so far away................
I have been there done that more times than I am willing to admit on an open forum. You were lucky that you didn't lose more stuff that you did.
Have to say something about the size of that monster wave.........or not,
I will be kind.......but keep the videos flowing. Gotta love a cool huli. Welcome to reality.
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I'm not sure how it caught me like that. I'm glad it happened near the beach and not in open water. I've practiced for it but I would prefer it not to happen.
I know I'm not perfect and my clumsiness is always there to keep me level headed. I'm not sure there's much to learn from this. It's probably more for the laugh.
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Keep practicing. It looks to me like the first thing you did was let go of your paddle with the left hand and reach down to the water with your right hand (instincts told you to do it). Not saying you are a newbie, but this is a typical reaction of newbies is this sort of situation. From this armchair ::) , it looks like you may have been able to brace yourself out of that one. Practice, practice, practice, until your instincts tell you to reach your paddle out and brace.
-Allen
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Any landing you can walk away from, right? ;D
Thanks for showing the vid. For some reason I always like the "gopro underwater after huli" part of these type of videos. Mine just shows my landing net up close.
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Keep practicing. It looks to me like the first thing you did was let go of your paddle with the left hand and reach down to the water with your right hand (instincts told you to do it). Not saying you are a newbie, but this is a typical reaction of newbies is this sort of situation. From this armchair ::) , it looks like you may have been able to brace yourself out of that one. Practice, practice, practice, until your instincts tell you to reach your paddle out and brace.
-Allen
I'm pretty green when it comes to surf launching. I've done a few in much bigger surf and I didn't have any problem. I'm definitely a newbie and it doesn't hurt my ego to admit that.
Looking back at the video I can make sense of what you're saying. I tried to brace but gave up and let it take me.
I'll find a spot that isn't so rocky and practice in the surf. It's definitely fun and it would prep me for launching out of PC which I fully intend on doing this year!
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Not that it would have prevented you from flipping but you are holding your paddle upside down lingling, the wider part of the blade should be above the smaller part ;)
Playing in the surf is a great way to practice bracing and such, not to mention its a lot of fun (and exercise). Thigh straps really help you stay locked in to the hull too.
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Not that it would have prevented you from flipping but you are holding your paddle upside down lingling, the wider part of the blade should be above the smaller part ;)
Playing in the surf is a great way to practice bracing and such, not to mention its a lot of fun (and exercise). Thigh straps really help you stay locked in to the hull too.
Well that's embarrassing! I have honestly never paid any attention to that before. I guess that shows you how much I actually use my paddle. Thanks for pointing that out haha.
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http://paddling.about.com/od/technique/ss/Hold_Paddle_4.htm
http://kayaking.lifetips.com/cat/66722/kayaking-technique/index.html
:)
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Whitewater kayaking is a great way to pick up basic kayaking skills such as the low brace, the high brace, front surfing, and side surfing. When running a rapid, you may be bracing to some extent every couple of seconds, so these skills quickly become second nature. If Ling Ling Herro had those skills, when he unexpectedly got hit by the little breaker, he would have instinctively braced to stay upright, and then either ruddered and paddled forward to front surf on the breaker, let himself turn sidewise and braced into the pile to side surf, or back paddled to let the breaker go past him. And Micahgee is right, thigh straps really help you handle a paddle kayak in rough water.
But to start whitewater kayaking, you'd need to buy a whitewater kayak, learn to roll it, live someplace where there are whitewater rivers to run, and spend time whitewater kayaking. And many kayak fishermen aren't interested in running whitewater, and/or don't want to buy a bunch of new equipment.
Does anybody have suggestions about how to learn these kayaking skills in a fishing kayak on the ocean or on a lake? When learning those skills, you're going to get dumped in the water occasionally. You can't really learn those skills unless you're paddling in situations where you could get dumped in the water. One suggestion is to learn those skills in an empty kayak, so you don't need to deal with a whole bunch of fishing gear when righting and re-entering your kayak. Another suggestion is to learn those skills when other kayakers are around to help you if necessary.
And here's a way to practice bracing: If you find yourself in quick steep waves, turn sidewise to the waves, and put your paddle in the water on the side from which the waves are approaching. As the first wave reaches you, push down on the power (concave) face of your paddle. This is called a high brace, because your paddle shaft is above your arm. As the next wave reaches you, roll the paddle over and push down on the back (convex) side of the paddle. This is called a low brace, because your paddle shaft is below your arm. Keep repeating these motions, moving your paddle in a sculling motion from power face to back face. Lean into the incoming waves, put your weight on the buttock which is on the side the waves are coming from, and put a lot of weight on your paddle. Keep your elbows close to your sides, and keep your paddle shaft low on your ribcage. Then turn your kayak 180 degrees and practice the same thing on the other side of your kayak, so you learn to brace equally well on either side. High and low braces can provide you with tremendous support and stability, even in big breaking waves. They are like the railing next to a flight of stairs. If you trip on the stairs, you can grab the railing. If you get tipped off-balance by a wave, you can instantly do a high or low brace to stabilize yourself.
One Plano box full of jigs, GoPro monopod/flag pole, water bottle and 50lb spool of mono leader all floating in the surf zone. I'm still not sure how the other Plano boxes in my milk crate didn't dump. I was relieved to see that none of my three rods were broken.
Also, any time you're out in your kayak, your kayak could end up upside down, and you could end up in the water. So any gear which you don't want to lose should either be attached to your kayak or have floatation. And preferably attached to your kayak, because if conditions are interesting enough to flip you over, those conditions may interfere with swimming or paddling around recovering various items of loose floating gear. Attach a snap clip to your water bottle so you can clip it to something on your kayak. Put a bungie cord over the lure boxes in your milk crate. Put the spool of mono inside something. And so on.
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All good points Pete,
New and od hands alike should read this a couple of times then go PRACTICE and PRACTICE some more.
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Here's a short video which shows whitewater kayakers doing a lot of bracing. It demonstrates the great stability which you can gain by bracing, and has a lot of cool overhead views, apparently obtained with some kind of video drone.
http://vimeo.com/96664963
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I think they need a rudder and some peddles. They werent carring a straight line at all. All of the paddling and fighting the current is going to make them way to tired to fish.
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Having keeled over myself in surf, and having the need to try surfing in with my Outback, I read and re-read Pete's advice and finally decided to take his kayak vocabulary and search it out on youtube. I found the best video was up top for the search and watched it a few times. I live on the Olympic Peninsula and while I haven't dared to venture out beyond the waves with my Outback (because it is a pig in the surf unless you're REAL good), my kids have gone out all over the place in a couple of Ocean Kayak Frenzys. So...I got myself an Ocean Kayak Prowler 13 to see if I could do the same as what my kids do in the Frenzys. Anyway, Pete's advice, the youtube video , and the empirical school of thought, I will start on the small surf as it comes in before attempting the larger waves as well as a loaded fishing 'yak. I also read over the lost gear forum, having contributed to that same topic myself under another DAMHIK article like the above-mentioned experience. My family has castigated me for my bloody snafus in my Outback, but let us remain...ever...undaunted. The youtube vid...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOsyqt37ILQ
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The YouTube video on the high brace for whitewater kayakers has good information. I'd only add two things to it:
1. Keep your paddle in the water (a good idea with all kinds of kayaks). When kayaking, the idea is not to bob along holding your paddle up in the air, and then desperately slap the water with your paddle if you start to get tipped over. The idea is to keep your paddle in the water, so you can respond instantly and instinctively to any disruption of your balance. That's why I suggested that you practice alternating a high brace and a low brace, using a sculling motion and without taking your paddle out of the water. It's like keeping your hand on the bannister as you run down the stairs. Paddling steadily forward produces much the same result, because one blade or the other is in the water most of the time, and ready to respond instantly if you get tipped off balance.
2. Practice a sculling brace (if you have a sit-inside kayak). A high or low brace provides you with short-term support. A sculling brace provides a whitewater kayaker or a sea kayaker with long-term support. Sculling involves sweeping your paddle across the surface of the water, keeping the front edge of the blade up as you sweep the paddle forward, and the back edge of the blade up as you sweep the paddle backward, so the paddle blade doesn't dive. The following video shows how to scull:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJVLGvS4YuA .
To practice a sculling brace, lean back on the back deck of your kayak, let your kayak roll over on its side so your shoulder and the side of your head are in the water (which provides you with some flotation), and start sculling. You can stay in that position, with your kayak on its side, with very little effort. Then, pop yourself upright! Practice this on both sides. Stop sculling and let your head sink underwater, and then scull gently to bring your head back to the surface. If you're sculling on your right side, keep your right elbow bent and as near as feasible to your side, keep your right hand near your face, and keep your left hand low and near the side of your kayak. This will keep your right shoulder in a strong position. Don't straighten your right arm and hold your paddle over your head when sculling, as that puts your right shoulder in a weak position and exposes it to damage. You'll see a couple of examples of risky position in the sculling video, such as in the first picture of a kayaker sculling. You want the low powerful paddle position to become instinctive, not the high risky paddle position. Once you get good at sculling and can do it instinctively if you get blasted over on your side, you'll rarely need to use your roll, because if you get knocked over on your side, you can take a scull stroke and pop back upright. When a whitewater kayaker learns to roll, he or she becomes kind of bombproof. When a whitewater kayaker learns to brace and scull upright if he or she gets knocked over, they'll really be bombproof. The whitewater sequence at the end of the video is a good example of how having a good sculling brace can keep you from needing to roll.
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Chris, I'm not dissing your capability -- but it appears that the water is about a foot deep...You definitely got surprised by that sneaker, and it doesn't take much to huli once you lose your balance. Glad you recovered your stuff and willing to share the tale.
Pete - I think you should come out to Oregon next year and provide a surf clinic! That river drone footage was sick!
I've been watching the surf in various spots near Newport-- just imagining trying to get a kayak through some of the waves. There are definitely some easy conditions and I'd be smart to pick one of those days to go out. Like this past Saturday, Flat as a lake!!
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I'm not the guy to teach a surf launch and landing clinic, because I'm from Montana, and there isn't a lot of ocean surf in Montana. I've done some ocean surfing in a whitewater kayak, and I've spent a little time in the surf zone in a fishing kayak, but there are many many people on this forum who are vastly more qualified than I am to teach a surf launch and landing clinic.
But I do have a theory about why Hobie kayaks get hulied so frequently when pedaling in through surf. It's because the flippers of the Mirage Drive, which make Mirage Drive kayaks wonderful fishing kayaks, are in a terrible position for surfing, because they are in the front half of the hull of Hobie kayaks. The fins on a surfboard are at the back of the board, so they tend to turn the board so it's heading down the fall line of the wave when surfing. Because the Mirage Drive fins are in the front part of Hobie kayaks, as soon as the kayak turns even a little to the left or right, the fins steer the kayak abruptly further in the same direction, and try to make the kayak spin 180 degrees so the fins are towards the rear of the kayak. But as soon as the kayak gets sideways on the wave, the pile tries to side-surf the kayak, the fins catch water sideways, and the kayak instantly flips over towards the beach. Boom!
It seems to me (and keep in mind that I've done a lot more whitewater kayaking than surf landings in a fishing kayak) that if you have a Mirage Drive kayak, there are several ways to reduce the chances of getting your head handed to you in this manner when landing through surf:
1. If the surf looks big enough to surf your kayak as you head for the beach, pull up your Mirage Drive and paddle the kayak in.
2. Buy thigh straps and install attachment points for them on your kayak, so you can clip them in before you paddle in towards the beach through surf. Thigh straps will give you much more control over your kayak when front surfing or side surfing in surf.
3. If you start to get surfed by a wave when pedaling in towards the beach, or when pedaling in the same direction as large waves away from shore, instantly push one pedal forward so the fins go up against the bottom of your kayak. You'll need to practice this, because it's counter-intuitive. If things get exciting in surf, the reflex is to brace hard with both feet against the pedals. That reflex will leave the fins sticking straight down, which will maximize the chances that your kayak will veer sideways, that the fins will catch water sideways, and that the wave will dump your kayak towards the beach.
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Pete, with few exceptions, everyone I know in a hobie pulls their drive out on a surf landing. It seems to be S.O.P.
In OP's video you can see his is out as well.
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Pete, with few exceptions, everyone I know in a hobie pulls their drive out on a surf landing. It seems to be S.O.P.
In OP's video you can see his is out as well.
This is probably an indication that the people you kayak with have a lot of experience. There are a lot of entertaining YouTube videos which show Mirage Drive kayakers getting trundled while trying to pedal their kayaks into a beach through surf.
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Regardless of how the surf is, I always pull the Mirage Drive when I'm ready to come in. I've seen too many people mess up/bend their fins by forgetting to extend the fins alongside the boat. Without a drive in, you can ride that wave in for a long time if you just "brake" to realign yourself with your paddle. I haven't attempted it with surf over 5 feet, but anything under 5 is manageable. Prepare for the worst though, and ensure everything is tied down. Launching and Recovering is one of the things I like most...it gets your blood pumping.
Nangusdog and I had some interesting landings...one in the dark(without lights). Oh, and you gotta love a 1/4 mile of breakers...paddling a outback though that was tough.