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Topic: Advice request: new fly rod & reel w/ extra spool  (Read 4176 times)

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PNW

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Checking an item off the bucket list. Went to Caddis Fly Angling Shop for decent gear within my budget: a new Echo ION-890XL fly rod & a Lamson Liquid reel w/ an extra spool, one for sinking line (saltwater) & one for top water (freshwater). I'm looking for advice on line set up for each spool, saltwater first.


Tinker

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First fly rod, Paul?  Good choice!  If my Grandkid ever gets back this way, I'll have an ION XL waiting for her.

I think we've gone over our saltwater setups several times but it's worth repeating.  I'm mimicking my mentor surf12foot's setup and he may jump onboard, too.

I'm going to assume you know about fly line backing, so we'll skip that part.  It's boring, anyway.

I like to use either a level running/shooting line, like those used on spey rods, and attach either a level sink tip or an OPST Commando floating tip.  Alternatively, I'll use an integrated fly line and attach a level sink tip as needed.

I like to use sink tips because I can change from a sinking tip to a floating tip (or just remove the sink tip) faster than I can change spools since threading a fly line through a 9' fly rod while in a kayak requires more coordination than I possess.  Plus, it's a whole lot cheaper than another spool and a different fly line (or another fly pole, reel, and fly line).  I'm a one man/one fishing pole kind of a guy.

For option one (shooting line --> sink tip) I like Scientific Anglers Titan Intermediate Shooting Line as my main line.  The line sinks at about 1.25 inches per second (in saltwater) for it's full length.  That's fast enough to drop it below the surface swells and to greatly reduce the parabolic curve between me and the fly which gives me the ability to feel even light nibbles.

(NOTE: a sinking fly line sinks faster than the fly).

I use Airflo Tungsten Shooting Heads as my sinking tip because I can buy it in bulk, cut it to length, and weld my own loops.  Airflo also makes it in pre-cut lengths, and so too does RIO and OPST (and possibly others, too, but I don't look around much because I end up buying something expensive).

I use a 9wt rod and T-18 shooting heads.  You might find a lighter sink tip - T14 or T-10 - is a better match for your 8wt.  I try to match the length of T-line to the maximum grain weight for my rod (390 grains or ~22 feet) but will go lighter/shorter if I'm fishing in less than 30 feet of water.

And this is probably the right time to introduce grain weights.  All fly fly lines are weighted in grains (1 ounce = ~437.5 grains).  A modern 8wt fly line will weigh anywhere between 260 and 320 grains although some lines are made a half, a full, or even two line weights heavier than "normal" (i.e. an over-weighted 8wt fly line may weight the same as a normal 9wt line).  The over-weighted lines are made to use with ultra-fast action rods, but the ION XL is a moderately fast action rod and you'll probably never need an over-weighted line.

For option 2 (integrated line) I like to use Scientific Anglers Sonar Titan Freshwater/Saltwater Full Intermediate lines, but these are the weight-forward "normal" fly line version.  I'll use some T-18 on the end aiming for a setup that's one to one-and-a-half line weights heavier than a typical 9wt line.  This will sink slightly more slowly and not cast as far as a shooting line --> sink tip setup but they are easier to cast.

Lately I've been trying Scientific Anglers Sonar 3D lines with three sink rates built into the line.  I'm on the fence about them because while they work well they also cost $100 and I'm a tightwad.

Jay Nicholas, also my mentor and sometimes sponsor, fishes out of Pacific City in dory boats.  Jay prefers to use integrated lines with the sink tip manufactured into the line, but Jay tells me he's prone to putting the dory where he thinks he'll find fish and dropping the line, not casting it.  We ignore line advice from Jay.

I tend to like Scientific Anglers fly lines more than those by Airflo or RIO.  Airflo lines are great, long-lasting lines but they're almost all textured and when bank-fishing for trout, I got tired of hearing the zinging noise when the line goes through the guides and that carried over to my saltwater fishing.  Most people don't mind that noise.  I did.

I haven't had the best of luck with the durability of RIO lines.  Fly lines are expensive and I want them to last a long time.  RIO's coatings seem to crack faster than that used by SA and Airflo so I stopped using them.  YMMV.

I don't use Cortland lines, but only because they don't match how I fish.  Royal Wulff lines are excellent and I have one on my freshwater fly rod but haven't tried them for saltwater.

Pay attention to the climate for which the line is made.  A line made for warm/tropical water temperatures will get stiff in our colder water.  A cold water line will get sticky in warm/tropical water.

There's no real difference between a freshwater and saltwater line.  Sometimes the running line section of a saltwater line will have a thinner diameter than a comparable freshwater line because lines sink more slowly in saltwater, but since the makers rarely publish the running line diameter, who knows if there's a difference.  One significant difference is that all freshwater lines are built for moderate or cold water and work well in the ocean around us.

Some folks are trying imported fly lines, like Piscifun (found on Amazon) and report they're well-made and work well but don't last as long as the big name brand lines so in the end they don't save money.

I use Maxima Chameleon for leaders because it's a bit more abrasion resistant than Ultragreen.  Manufactured knotless tapered leaders used to be cheap but now they're costly so I make my own.  Nothing fancy, just three or four feet of (appropriate) monofilament tied to a foot of 30# or 40# monofilament.  The heavier monofilament attaches to the fly line and is really important.  Large heavy or fluffy flies and sink tips tend to cause the setup to fold where the leader attaches - called a "hinge" - and it's dangerous for your ears (assuming you're as fond of your ears as I am of mine).  That short section of heavy line pretty much eliminates the hinge.

I'll use anywhere between 8# and 18# monofilament for my leader.  I've never felt a need for a stronger leader since fly rods fish differently than conventional gear once you have a fish on.  Plus, we think it's stunning if our fly reel can generate 10 pounds of drag, so a line that breaks at twice the amount of drag a reel can produce seems silly to me.

There you have it.  If anything isn't reasonably clear - if you're still guessing - ask and 'll do my best to explain it better.

- Kevin
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 04:06:27 AM by Tinker »
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


Nobaddays

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First, I think that will be a great setup for you.  I use an 8wt for most of my saltwater fishing and I have been really happy with my Lamson reels.

I like having the extra spool for floating/ sinking lines.  So far I have only wanted my sinking line in the saltwater.

For my floating line, I have a WF floating line.  I think it is Rio Intouch Salmon/ Steelhead taper.

For my sinking line I use Rio Outbound Short type six full sink line.  The type six should sink about 6 inches per second and I tend to use heavy weighted flies.

I am looking forward to hearing stories of you success.  I have had lots of fun flyfishing the saltwater.
Being retired, they pay me when I go fishing, therefore I am kind of a professional fisherman.


RoxnDox

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Jeez, all I wanted to respond with was “tie a knot around the spool, wind up line, then throw line at fishies till they bite it...”

<GRIN>
Junk Jigs "BEST USE OF ACTUAL JUNK" category - "That tape should have been a prized possession and not junk. That will be a collectors item in 30 years!” & “There sure is a lot of junk in there.”


surf12foot

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Welcome to the fun club! Just need this stupid weather to calm down and get you down here and test all of that new gear out but while this weather is crappy, now is the time to start tying some cool patterns.
Scott


PNW

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Thanks guys. Yeah, it's my first fly rod. Since I won't recall all this from memory, I'm doing some cutting & pasting so I can take this info to the fly fishing class this weekend at Caddis Fly.

Scott - I'm going to be making some trips to CB during the low tides May 18 through June 20, but let me know if something comes up sooner.

Kevin - I've always liked the PO area also.  ;D


Tinker

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Jeez, all I wanted to respond with was “tie a knot around the spool, wind up line, then throw line at fishies till they bite it...”

<GRIN>

Well that works, too, but I was feeling chatty...  :occasion14:

Thanks guys. Yeah, it's my first fly rod. Since I won't recall all this from memory, I'm doing some cutting & pasting so I can take this info to the fly fishing class this weekend at Caddis Fly.

Scott - I'm going to be making some trips to CB during the low tides May 18 through June 20, but let me know if something comes up sooner.

Kevin - I've always liked the PO area also.  ;D

You might have better luck finding Scott down here in Port Orford than up in Coos Bay.  Something to do with coconut shrimp with spicy garlic sauce...

Nobaddays is a whiz with integrated sinking fly lines, and it's worthwhile to pay attention to all you can learn from him, too.
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


PNW

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Thanks guys. Yeah, it's my first fly rod. Since I won't recall all this from memory, I'm doing some cutting & pasting so I can take this info to the fly fishing class this weekend at Caddis Fly.

Scott - I'm going to be making some trips to CB during the low tides May 18 through June 20, but let me know if something comes up sooner.

Kevin - I've always liked the PO area also.  ;D

You might have better luck finding Scott down here in Port Orford than up in Coos Bay.  Something to do with coconut shrimp with spicy garlic sauce...

Nobaddays is a whiz with integrated sinking fly lines, and it's worthwhile to pay attention to all you can learn from him, too.
[/quote] :icon_thumleft: Sent some pm's


Tinker

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Scott - I'm going to be making some trips to CB during the low tides May 18 through June 20, but let me know if something comes up sooner.

Kevin - I've always liked the PO area also.  ;D

Tragically, Port Orford won't be fishable this year.  The Army Corps of Engineers will be repairing the breakwater and will close the beach from June through November, probably longer. Rats!  Worse than that, it means I'll have to make pilgrimages to Coos Bay for saltwater fishing this year and there's no coconut shrimp with spicy garlic sauce up there.  "Rats!" just doesn't do justice to how I feel about that part...


I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


PNW

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Scott - I'm going to be making some trips to CB during the low tides May 18 through June 20, but let me know if something comes up sooner.

Kevin - I've always liked the PO area also.  ;D

Tragically, Port Orford won't be fishable this year.  The Army Corps of Engineers will be repairing the breakwater and will close the beach from June through November, probably longer. Rats!  Worse than that, it means I'll have to make pilgrimages to Coos Bay for saltwater fishing this year and there's no coconut shrimp with spicy garlic sauce up there.  "Rats!" just doesn't do justice to how I feel about that part...
That's unfortunate. Guess you'll have to make a stop in PO for the shrimp. There's a rock quarry just south of there with a trail down to the beach. I launched from there once years ago. It's only doable on calm days during small swells. Used to be able to walk down there. Wonder if it's still accessible? I'd like to try a trip out to Island Rock from there, if possible.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Port+Orford,+OR/42.7133883,-124.4612807/@42.7298342,-124.4966789,4655m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m5!1m1!1s0x54c4ceffa19a8e71:0xa198b7e548bab16f!2m2!1d-124.4973267!2d42.7456644!1m0

Launching from Sunset Bay is fine with me. I wasn't fly fishing, but did pretty well there a couple weeks ago.



surf12foot

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Paul you need to just jump in and "DO IT" with the fly gear.
Scott


PNW

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Paul you need to just jump in and "DO IT" with the fly gear.
Scott - I've got 2 spools. I'm thinking I'll use the sink tip for the salt. Bought it at Caddis Fly. Rio is what they sell in my price range.

I've got the basics of the roll cast. I need to tie up some leaders (10 ft. w/ 15 lbs test mono?) & learn how to spey cast.  Let me know when you're going. I could use a guru.


Tinker

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No, not 10 feet of leader, 6 feet at most (groundfish aren't the least bit leader-shy).  It took me a couple of years to pry this information out of surf12foot: add 10-12 inches of 25# or 30# mono as a butt section for the leader, then tie on 4-6 feet of lighter mono.  That section of heavy line makes it much (much) easier to cast with a heavy sinking tip on the line, otherwise there's a pronounced hinge where the sinking tip and leader connect and someone will laught at you all day when your casts keep collapsing on the bow of your kayak.  DAMHIK.

I still don't know exactly what line surf12foot uses below the 30# section, or why he chooses a specific leader material, but I use from 12# to 15# for ocean fishing, and use 15# the most.  I don't think it's necessary to go heavier than 15# test with a fly rod since I was using 12# Maxima the day that gigantic, man-eating lingcod towed me around at Sunset Bay, and when the leader finally broke it was only because of my stupidity.

I only use a roll cast to get the fly back to the surface.  After that, it's either a low (side-armed) cast or, at most, a cast with the rod at about 45-degrees off vertical.  That's just me.  I like my ears unpierced.  Again I'm not sure how surf12foot lifts his fly to make the next cast.  He was only fishing within a quarter-mile of me once, and I was too busy with other stuff that day to pay much attention to what he was doing.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 04:34:27 AM by Tinker »
I expected the worst, but it was worse than I expected...


PNW

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Thanks Kevin. I need to get out there with you guys & learn some stuff. I appreciate you're willingness to help out a noob.  :sign4:


Mojo Jojo

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Off subject but any of you fly guys want this, was in my grandpa’s OLD tackle box.... and STILL sprays!!



Shannon
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