NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Regional Discussions => Washington Kayak Fishing => Topic started by: Dawn Patrol on June 17, 2021, 10:02:26 AM
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Hey All,
I’m going to be on Sucia July 4th weekend, hoping to get some intel. I’m not sure which camp area we’ll land in but I have camped and fished there before years ago when I was just getting started. Lost a legit chinook using a stupid setup including a 11’ rod and about 8’ of swivel- weight- leader - flasher - tackle. I was on a tippy 2 person with my son who was maybe 7 at the time, wore out the fish over 15 mins then tried to yard the last 10’ in by hand ending with the hook coming out a few feet from the boat. That haunted me for a couple of years.
I’m older and somewhat wiser now, looking forward to getting back and even potentially exorcising those past demons. Looking at depth charts and bathymetry, where I hooked up was very shallow water btw SW finger of the island and (literally) South Finger Island. Doing online research there’s mention of the “Hummer Hole” as well as some general areas on the NW, W, and SW. I couldn’t get a specific location for the Hummer Hole. And then there is the area more towards Orcas in Rosario Strait.
As I’m with family and friends most likely scenarios will be long dawn patrols. That said I am sensitive to the potential for stong currents up there (last year’s Cypress adventure still in mind), so closer in is better while avoiding all of that shallow terrain around the island.
Bathymetry pic added here as a shared point of reference. Thanks in advance for any advice!
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I went into the cove one time on a holiday weekend and the smoke was so thick from everyone BBQing on anchor. Visibility was down to a few feet.
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I love that place. Only been there for the ling opener though. Now that I know there are salmon to be had.... :)
BTW, here's a trip write-up I did from years ago: https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=21104.msg88703#msg88703 (https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=21104.msg88703#msg88703)
-Mark-
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wading for dungeness crab in Shallow Bay at low tide was always fun when I went there. it's best to have a minus tide.
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Awesome ling trip write up! Bummed that won’t be on in early July, and too early for crabbing.
Keep the comments coming! I can sort good bets on terrain features and depths against tides, but would love any known zones. Including the elusive and provocative “Hummer Hole”.
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Just got back from 4 days on Sucia, camping in Shallow Bay. Stellar weather and good fishing. Put 25+ hours on the rig, dusted off the cobwebs all around. Sharing a few details in case there’s interest.
I had picked up some shaky intel ahead of going, had a few ideas and figured I’d find the fleet and head their direction. We had two familes camping, took one of those charter boats with a landing ramp (Island Express, they were awesome). Loaded up kayaks, coolers, gear, food and a dog and headed out from Anacortes. As it was July 1 and the MA7 chinook opener, I was amped to see boats out trolling passing Cypress, Blakely and Orcas. Perfect water, calm.
As we got to Waldron I got on the front of the boat to scan for activity closer to Sucia. I wasn’t seeing much until we got closer to the NW end of Sucia, where I realized one of the focal areas (and 40+ PB’s) was directly in front if our camp area, a 4 min pedal from the site to the action.
I got camp set up and folks squared away then rigged up the ride and pedaled out. Seeing a good bit of bait, bait balls as well as candlefish-looking marks on some of the bottom. I kicked it off with last season’s successful combo, the greens and silver flasher and the 3” cookies n’ cream spoon. Saw several fish hooked in first 90 mins, trolled for 90-100’ just above of or bouncing (often rocky) bottom. Mostly cruising around, getting the lay of the land and seeing what I could learn from the boats. Most of them seemed to be trolling in 135-150 fow.
After a few hours I had cruised most of the area the boats were on and sorted out some of the terrain and lines. I switched up to a black and glow flasher and a small green and blue speckled spoon and decided to push a bit deeper tolling 115-125. A couple minutes into the shift I saw some interesting bait on the screen and paused a second to let the ball touch bottom, then pedal again. Upon contact the DR line and rod were bouncing, as I moved ahead the DR line settled but the rod kept moving and then popped the clip. Major runs and rod fully bent, I knew I was into my first chinook of the summer. Everything came together and as I netted it was psyched to see it finless. About 9#, bright. Gutting it I found roughly green label sized herring in the belly.
Over the next few days I landed 3 more chinook up to 12#, a blackmouth, 15 or so rockfish, some greenling and a hefty 4’ longnose skate. Lost another chinook near the yak. Worked the bottom the whole time, occasionally jigging to give the legs a break (most of the rockfish came jigging). PB’s continued to hook up a bit deeper, but I had all of my chinook success in the 115 range. I saw very few salmon-like marks on the screen, and even less suspended fish save for some random marks at 20-30 from time to time that could have been pinks. Water conditions varied, with a few phases of sporty current. Saw a good # of fish landed (especially on the 1st and 2nd), most in the 8-10# range.
Good times! Looking forward to more this summer.
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Awesome report! Thanks. How was camping?
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Thanks! It was a good session, and based on the little intel I could gather ahead of the trip I wanted to backfill with what I found.
The camping was pretty good. Inexpensive ($12/night), first come first serve save for 3-4 larger group sites on the island. Toilets and potable water at each area. The Shallow Bay spots mainly had camping up off the beach, a couple of the sites were nicer. We spent most of the time on the beach when in camp. You would have easy access to the described fishing zone from the Fossil Bay sites too. Camping was busier and louder than the last time we went 5 years or so ago. July 4 weekend, post-quarantine, lots of folks on boats moored in bay and coming ashore to mess around. First world problems except for the first come first served bit, so be strategic about planning. I’m a fan of those charter boat deals when there is a mixed group. Pretty much like car camping on a remote beach, kayak stays rigged and I can hit the water early and often. Groups can hike, kayak or paddleboard, lounge etc. Pretty relaxing.
I was pretty pumped by the fishing. I was up on Orcas for similar dates last year, over 3 dawn sessions only got 1 hookup and lost it. Expecting this year to be better.
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Right on! Thanks again.
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Another note, you can get to Sucia by kayak directly from North Sound on Orcas. Not a bad paddle but currents can be significant. Pretty sure there are longer-term parking options there as it’s by the airstrip and another charter company. There is a little park with an easy beach launch there, just E of the entry to the marina.
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Good thing you got out when you did, A7 closes at midnight tonight.
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Yeah, I was surprised and bummed to see that. Probably not as bummed as the folks living up there though. That was quick.
I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
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Yeah, I was surprised and bummed to see that. Probably not as bummed as the folks living up there though. That was quick.
I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
4x the amount of Chinook landed 7/1 - 7/3 in 2021 than the same time period 2020. I think you saw the best fishing the area had to offer in the last 20 years.
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That was a lot of fun, and I was definitely feeling fortunate. I worked my ass off for those bites but that’s part of what I enjoy, the all-in experience and constant solving for challenges to optimize the session.
Any idea where those fish would have been going? One of the PB’s let me know one of his buddies in Canada was talking about best conditions since ‘88 or something. The fish were pretty consistent, most were wilds too.
On a side note one of my bigger takeaways/reminders was the variation in currents from day to day. The 1st was very fishable both times I was out, the morning of the 2nd was trickier, and the 3rd and 4th had some wily times. Had to test a lot of different approaches to organize fishable lines (vs getting pushed and pulled or having the DR ball swung way out). New location, some of my existing knowledge and ability to read or predict was helpful but felt like a big area for improvement for me. WH, can you recommend any reference books or materials relevant to that? I’ve seen/used that Puget Sound currents model but it feels more general and often doesn’t relate to specific terrain. Open to any advice, thanks.
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I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
Out of curiosity, why do you plan on toning down trip report info? I like sharing trip reports (a) to share the stoke, (b) so I can come back in the 'off season' and re-read things. And if the info I post helps put someone on a fish, that's pretty cool too.
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WH, can you recommend any reference books or materials relevant to that? I’ve seen/used that Puget Sound currents model but it feels more general and often doesn’t relate to specific terrain. Open to any advice, thanks.
I really can't, I've done a lot of tidal stuff but current modeling is over my head. I bet some nerd at UW has a cool AI driven one though. Once rode a current backwards though most if the narrows on max flood, currents mystify me.
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I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
Out of curiosity, why do you plan on toning down trip report info? I like sharing trip reports (a) to share the stoke, (b) so I can come back in the 'off season' and re-read things. And if the info I post helps put someone on a fish, that's pretty cool too.
Won't speak for Dawn Patrol, but the level of work and time to find fish is pretty intense and there's a lot of lazy dudes out there just waiting for a report to come up and fish it - putting in a fraction of the time and effort. It gets old pretty fast spending tons of time researching and experimenting on the water just to have some carpetbagger use your effort so he can brag to his friends on Facebook. I have mad respect for dudes like Dawn Patrol, Fungunnin, Clayman, and Todd Switzer because they're the ones progressing the sport.
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I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
Out of curiosity, why do you plan on toning down trip report info? I like sharing trip reports (a) to share the stoke, (b) so I can come back in the 'off season' and re-read things. And if the info I post helps put someone on a fish, that's pretty cool too.
Won't speak for Dawn Patrol, but the level of work and time to find fish is pretty intense and there's a lot of lazy dudes out there just waiting for a report to come up and fish it - putting in a fraction of the time and effort. It gets old pretty fast spending tons of time researching and experimenting on the water just to have some carpetbagger use your effort so he can brag to his friends on Facebook. I have mad respect for dudes like Dawn Patrol, Fungunnin, Clayman, and Todd Switzer because they're the ones progressing the sport.
I hate to say it, but I agree with this. There are a few people out there that the reports genuinely help out, but an equal number (if not more) that are just users that take the info and abuse the system. I personally don't post a lot of reports anymore due to this, but when I do I tend to leave out a lot of the exact details. If someone wants to PM me I can choose what I want to share. Not that I have a whole lot of fishing trips to report on these days anyway!
That being said, for those of us who really do appreciate the reports and the nuggets of information contained for reference, I wholeheartedly value those who do post reports. I wish the situation were different and we could all openly share information without the worry of people abusing it, but that's not the online world we live in.
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I hate to say it but I’ll be toning down any TR details going forward. I was excited that the conditions seemed so much better than last year, regardless I hope that does present in the other marine areas over the next month.
Out of curiosity, why do you plan on toning down trip report info? I like sharing trip reports (a) to share the stoke, (b) so I can come back in the 'off season' and re-read things. And if the info I post helps put someone on a fish, that's pretty cool too.
Won't speak for Dawn Patrol, but the level of work and time to find fish is pretty intense and there's a lot of lazy dudes out there just waiting for a report to come up and fish it - putting in a fraction of the time and effort. It gets old pretty fast spending tons of time researching and experimenting on the water just to have some carpetbagger use your effort so he can brag to his friends on Facebook. I have mad respect for dudes like Dawn Patrol, Fungunnin, Clayman, and Todd Switzer because they're the ones progressing the sport.
I hate to say it, but I agree with this. There are a few people out there that the reports genuinely help out, but an equal number (if not more) that are just users that take the info and abuse the system. I personally don't post a lot of reports anymore due to this, but when I do I tend to leave out a lot of the exact details. If someone wants to PM me I can choose what I want to share. Not that I have a whole lot of fishing trips to report on these days anyway!
That being said, for those of us who really do appreciate the reports and the nuggets of information contained for reference, I wholeheartedly value those who do post reports. I wish the situation were different and we could all openly share information without the worry of people abusing it, but that's not the online world we live in.
Awesome, thanks both. Being a carpetbagger myself (Moved out from eastern seaboard in '19, only 2 PS salmon seasons under my belt, and the first one was extremely seat-of-the-pants), I haven't put in enough time or experienced these frustrations enough to intuitively understand these inclinations, so I both appreciate the voicing of these perspectives, and understand & respect them.
With regards to abusers of the trip report system... I suppose that a non-abuser of a trip report system would be putting in lots of hours on the water and posting their own reports?
From a newbie's perspective, the trip report thing is kinda a bummer, but understandable. While there's a ton of information out there (websites, charts, books, blogs), there's not much guidance on implementing that information in real world settings on a kayak. Also, selfishly, it can be fun to read trip reports, both during season and off season.
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With regards to abusers of the trip report system... I suppose that a non-abuser of a trip report system would be putting in lots of hours on the water and posting their own reports?
I think it's all good as long as you contribute something, no matter the skill level. I was talking about a very specific type of fisherman that came about with the better communication afforded by the internet - the ones hitting the refresh button all day at work waiting for reports to go carpetbag someone's spot that Saturday for Facebook cred. They never develop any foundational skills to find fish - to them F5 is all they need.
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I'll chime in from AK. I came here 51 years ago. The places I fished in my first few years....no one even knew they existed. I confided in a few "trusted" friends of these whereabouts....only to one day arrive at one secret spot encountering a couple of anglers with a cooler. They were from 160 miles away and this was 23 years before the Internet. I asked how you found this spot. They pulled out a xerox copy of a MAP on how to get to this spot. Hmm, "trusted" friends. The hole eventually became famous on the Kenai River, known as Beaver Creek. Some days there are 50 boats banging gunwale to gunwale there. I've 'ruined' more than my share of 'secret' spots by trusting friends. On a one to one basis NOW, I never tell them where or how.
That didn't stop me from creating and publishing Alaska Outdoor Journal for 20 years, posting fishing info, data, and REPORTS on fisheries all over Alaska. And along with that I got a fair amount of criticism for "ruining my personal fishery" type comments. Water off the duck's back!! I provided a service that put tons of fish every year in folks freezers....Alaskans and tourist visitors. Guess what? There are still millions and millions of salmon arriving every year. In all the same places too.
Here is my advice for those who are interested.
When it comes to Anadromous fisheries, i.e. salmon runs, whether in the ocean, the bays, or the rivers....its all about HERE TODAY, GONE TOMORROW. If you want to post fishing reports on these fisheries, your info is OLD and out of date by the time you finish typing. That is salmon fishing no matter where its at. You can't "ruin" a fishery that is on the move constantly and in many cases unlimited in the numbers of fish available to go around.
Now when it comes to saltwater species that don't move around and are non-pelagic, they can be fished out of areas and discretion is warranted to protect the fishery as well as your source of protein. General announcements are good enough and sharing spots usually occurs under the table.
Freshwater species are even more vulnerable to honey holes and secret spots getting fished out. If its a spot you will never fish again, you have nothing to lose. HA. If its your go to fishery, its up to you.
Just look at the Stats for NWKA website forum. Its at the bottom of the main forums page.
At this very moment there are 74 Guests, and FIVE members, plus 2 search engines. This is not a freak accident. It's what is going on every day on this website. The lurkers and "carpetbaggers" as you call them are here for the same reason the members are. If all the "Guests" were instantly converted to Members, would it make any difference? 99% of forum members are lurkers too. Gleaning what tidbits they can with no contributions.
Don't let it bother you or prevent your contributions. If no one posts the "good stuff" this forum will fold up and die as being worthless.
Just my 2¢ ~KK~
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Hey All,
Jumping back in for phase 2/3 of this thread. My comments earlier about holding back on TR’s seemed to add some new layers. A lot of my meaning was specific to current WA conditions and regulations. I was surprised (and a little bummed) by the ultra-short MA7 season, and in some ways was concerned after the fact about publishing details. I’ve seen restrictions as well as fishing pressure amplify (esp around chinook) over the last few years, and in WA the resource and seasons can become very limited. I as much as anyone have benefited from the intel (general and specific) online, and try to reciprocate when I can. Often there are themes and trends with what works for a given fishery and season, and early intel can help develop successful approaches, I noted a few specifics in my Sucia report in that spirit.
At the same time, some of the online intel can drive ultra-fast adoption of innovation, and savvy anglers draw from very current resources to adjust plans daily. And then fishing turns into a race against the clock/quota, which sucks.
Secondly, and lamely, I get concerned around online reporting adding to quota tallies. I know some folks here could likely verify that, so for me to act on an idea or suspicion without knowing the facts is a little weak. The fact is I treasure the limited resource and time we have in the Puget Sound area (again, specifically around chinook which is my favorite fishery). I also treasure the species (and related creatures, such as orcas) on their own right, not just for my fishing enjoyment! It feels like a muddy picture here in WA and there are a ton of new pressures (population, climate, law breakers) on what has to be a fragile fishery and species. There’s (rightly) a lot of public awareness right now around orca populations here so it feels popular/supported to demonstrate active management with recreational fishing. So more recently I have some mixed emotions (clearly) in this space, including my putting stuff out there on the web.
It’s tricky personally because I’m a geek for all of the online resources, and love learning more as well as reading well-crafted accounts of success, failure and fun. For me fishing is one of those continuum things. It’s a living thing for me, and I’m always thinking about it and testing and refining approaches. Part of that is I see myself as part of a community, with a responsibility including feeding info and joy back into it. KK’s post is awesome and has a ton of relevant wisdom and advice for example. And it’s nuts to be positively called out by someone like workhard, whose posts here are like an ongoing fishing primer and tutorial, totally inspiring and in-depth. You and a number of the folks on here are totally next level, and I have specifically referred keen (and cool) newbies to read your posts for advice. I also dig crazy resources such as Leeroy’s Ramblings, a lot of the FB groups, out of print books, and just talking to folks.
I’m looking forward to the MA9 opener Friday! This time I’ll be on a neighbor’s PB with my 13 y.o., but will look forward to seeing ‘yakers in the mix. Over the 4 days on Sucia I was the only kayaker trolling, some people thought I was nuts but as we all know it’s one of the best and most effective ways to fish. Not as easy but more connected and fun when it all comes together.
All this said (speaking of ramblings), without the influence of NWKA I’d be a lesser fisherman. I’m lucky and honored to be counted in this number, we’ve got a good thing here. Thanks to the creators, admins and you all for providing this platform.
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Secondly, and lamely, I get concerned around online reporting adding to quota tallies. I know some folks here could likely verify that, so for me to act on an idea or suspicion without knowing the facts is a little weak.
I can go ahead and verify this, kayak fishing is basically invisible to in-season estimation and if everyone of us fished with you there would be no impact on those tallies. What shut down 7 was a large increase in effort presumably because of the holiday/covid, much higher than normal angler success coupled with it and a constrained quota aimed at protecting ESA listed fish returning to the Stilly.
You might get asked where you launched from by a WDFW boat - this is data gathering with the hopes of eventually keeping small sections of the Sound open to non-motorized watercraft when the greater area closes.
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All this said (speaking of ramblings), without the influence of NWKA I’d be a lesser fisherman. I’m lucky and honored to be counted in this number, we’ve got a good thing here. Thanks to the creators, admins and you all for providing this platform.
I concur and feel this way about many of the forums and FB groups I've been and still am a part of. I really enjoy the sharing of information and contribute the best I can. I don't fish as much as I used to, but will still report significant trips if noteworthy, but will often be vague about locations and some details. I do understand the hypocrisy of it, so try not to be the person who takes, but doesn't contribute. I also find that in recent years I've turned to PMs when it comes to offering specifics as that keeps it out of the "public" domain. I love the wealth of information that is available from all this shared knowledge, but unfortunately there are those out there who abuse it. I guess that will always be an issue no matter.
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Hey All,
Thanks for taking the time to type this up. Even as a novice to this fishery, I have noticed the pressures that our PS species face, and have also noticed - admittedly at times with purely selfish dismay - the conservation measures that experts deem necessary to protect this priceless resource for future generations.
Given the relatively diminished opportunity that we have to fish on ocean salmon, I totally get the "mums the word" approach that so many have adopted. I suspect that my more open approach stems from the fact that my residency here is transient, so I simultaneously (a) feel less ownership of these fishing opportunities and (b) have fewer connections to talk fishing with, the combination of these two realities making me more inclined to post about it online as a means of engaging w/ others who enjoy these fisheries.
You might get asked where you launched from by a WDFW boat - this is data gathering with the hopes of eventually keeping small sections of the Sound open to non-motorized watercraft when the greater area closes.
Is this something that is too nascent to warrant reaching out to legislators? Or would this be something that would purely be implemented by WDFW?
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You might get asked where you launched from by a WDFW boat - this is data gathering with the hopes of eventually keeping small sections of the Sound open to non-motorized watercraft when the greater area closes.
Is this something that is too nascent to warrant reaching out to legislators? Or would this be something that would purely be implemented by WDFW?
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WDFW. Rules like that are made during the North of Falcon process, currently I think the only person representing kayakers is Blake at the Gig Harbor Fly Shop.
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You might get asked where you launched from by a WDFW boat - this is data gathering with the hopes of eventually keeping small sections of the Sound open to non-motorized watercraft when the greater area closes.
Is this something that is too nascent to warrant reaching out to legislators? Or would this be something that would purely be implemented by WDFW?
Non-motorized fishing opportunity is consistent with multiple national and state objectives. A non-tide dependent fishery seems ideal for beta testing this idea. If asked to name one, I’d go with Baker Lake which fished great on the opener this weekend