NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Drillin' & Cuttin' => Topic started by: amb on November 15, 2008, 02:32:58 PM
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I'd like to start on an anchor system for winter fishing. Is there a parts list for the bsteves anchor system? It looks like a good way to go. Suggestions, updates, and sources for parts is appreciated.
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I'd like to start on an anchor system for winter fishing. Is there a parts list for the bsteves anchor system? It looks like a good way to go. Suggestions, updates, and sources for parts is appreciated.
I'm also interested.
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Okay, okay, I'll write an article. Give me a couple days. Until then..
1 - 3 lb folding anchor
3 ft of 1/4" chain
1 extension cord winder
1 brass or stainless clip
1 brass or stainless ring
1 crab buoy
200+ ft 3/16" braided nylon
12 ft 1/2" bow line (6 ft for bow line, 6 ft for buoy line)
jam cleat for 1/2" line
Here is some old text and photos from a previous post.
My set up is pretty much like this one by FishShim of NCKA except for the cable reel I used (I'm using the extension cord winder) and my choice to add an anchor chain instead of the 2 lb weight.
(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=39846&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=2e31eaec472a6a076c2e1d782f673c9f)
Oh another difference with mine.. I think my bow line configuration is probably safer than FishShim's stern line in the Willamette. We saw a lot of large pieces of wood coming down stream and unlike power boats they really don't make much warning noise. I was glad to face up river so I could seem them coming. A stern line however would have been much nicer to fish with because it would allow your line to stay in front of you and you wouldn't have to worry about the anchor line in front of you. I'm choosing safety over convenience.
As for the 300 ft of line. I probably could have ordered a whole spool somewhere online, but I bought 3 x 100 ft bags of line (3/16" braided nylon) at Joe's for about $7 each. I tied them together to make one long line. I'm not too worried about the knots. If anything, I figure they provide a weak link in case I find myself unable to retrieve the anchor from the bottom. Better to break off deep, then to cut the line near the surface and create a possible hazard to navigation. Anyway, the knots also work as 100 ft line markers. I used a sharpie to mark out 50 ft sections in the second and third hundred feet and 10 ft sections in the first 100 ft to use as a rough sounding line.
When I get on station, I detach the reel from the buoy, drop the anchor and let the line spin off the reel pretty quickly. When I hit bottom I figure out the depth (a fish finder eliminates this stop, but they don't always function right), then I feed out enough line for a 3:1 or 4:1 scope depending on current. I then reattach the reel to the buoy line such that the line can no longer spin (photo later) and toss the reel and buoy into the water attached to the quick release bow line. Being made of plastic it doesn't weigh the buoy down but does cause some minor drag.
Anyway, to pull up the anchor, I paddle upstream first until the anchor tightens again, detach the reel from the buoy line and start reeling as I float back down. Once I get above the anchor with the line straight down I give it a tug and reel the anchor up. Works pretty well, and I can deploy and pull anchor pretty quickly.
I must add though that the current really wasn't that bad on Sunday, so I'm not sure how good of a test this really was. I could always get slightly thinner line, a bigger buoy, and a heavier anchor if need be.
Here are some photos.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/103_26_02_08_1_42_37_0.jpg)
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/103_26_02_08_1_42_41_3.jpg)
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/103_26_02_08_1_42_40_2.jpg)
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Thanks Brian. Started collecting parts already. Hope to be ready for a sturgeon trip in December.
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What Brian said except:
1) Let all of the line out. Especially in big current and water more than 50' deep. Just like your big boat, scope is what holds you.
2) Unlike your big boat, don't leave the winder (bucket, crate,,,,) on the line. although the weigh of the winder is not significant, the drag of it is (again, especially in current). In fact, the drag of the anchor line pulling the anchor is waaay bigger than the drag of the boat. Which is why Brian said use the skinniest line you can handle comfortably (didn't he? ;D) I'd use 1/4" or even 3/8" if you can find it.
Oh, and a length of pool noodle makes a great float. If you weight one end of it, it stands up and is easier to find at kayak eye level.
What he didn't mention was that this is yak fishing 400. Anchoring in deep moving water in a kayak is genuinely dangerous. Throw in the fact that your fishing for 6' prehistoric beasties from hell and your definitely kicking it on the graduate level. Add that minor detail that your in cold, hypothermia inducing water and you should be able to figure out that this is not the trip to introduce your mother to kayak fishing with.
Mother-in-law?
Well, that's different.
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Thanks Wali, although I think a lot of anchoring depends on location, tide and water conditions. Most of the time I've anchored in the Willamette near St. Johns the current hasn't been bad. Now if I was going to try and anchor near Willamette falls or something that would be a different story (yak fishing 400 as you say).
Brian
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At what point does one make the switch from the anchor trolley to a drift anchor?
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At what point does one make the switch from the anchor trolley to a drift anchor?
Sadly, I started to do the math on this, at least I started to try and figure out what parameters I would need to calculate this along with a sketch of a figure complete with arrows. At this point I'm thinking a field test might just be easier method of figuring that out.
Brian
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At this point I'm thinking a field test might just be easier method of figuring that out.
Brian
I might have an idea or two..... 8)
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At what point does one make the switch from the anchor trolley to a drift anchor?
I actually bought one from Cabela's a few weeks ago but haven't even tried to figure out how to rig or deploy. Probably simple but no time to fish, let alone think about more new stuff :(
Jay
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At this point I'm thinking a field test might just be easier method of figuring that out.
Brian
I might have an idea or two..... 8)
How about a mini get together to test out new gear and techniques? I'll be available beginning day after turkey day but I'm gone all of January.
Jay
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How about a mini get together to test out new gear and techniques?
Jay
I'd be up for that. I had some extra time this weekend and managed to put together a ghetto drift anchor system for my Cobra. She aint the prettiest girl at the dance but she's solid (made from unistrut).
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At what point does one make the switch from the anchor trolley to a drift anchor?
Spot,
I guess I misread your original post regarding anchor selection. For some reason, I thought you were making a comment on when the line winder starts acting as a drift sock of sorts due to heavy current. I think I was still thinking about FFTW's comments earlier.
Now that I've re-read things I think a lot of it has to do with depth. For sitting on a 60 ft sturgeon hole the anchor system described above makes the most sense to me. For drift fishing a shallow river you wouldn't need all that line and the folding grapple anchor is likely to get permanently stuck on a rock. In this case the 10 lb pyramid anchor is going to be a better option as well as the ability to lift and drop the anchor at will. What's the cut off depth? I don't know.. 15 ft or so. Here's my rationale for that number.. I have a 50 ft line on my drift anchor set up and that's about the max I can keep organized without a winder of sorts. I figure I want a 3x scope when anchoring so then we're looking at roughly 15 ft depth. This should be plenty in most small rivers looking for steelhead.
Brian
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I tested my PVC + Scotty Anchor Lock up in WA this past weekend and it worked great in the slow current we had.
The problem with the Scotty Anchor Lock is that is has a lock which makes it impossible to ditch the anchor in an emergency. I removed the lock mechanism and use a jam cleat on the side of my kayak near my seat instead. The PVC arm holding the anchor lock works better on my old Cobra than my OK Caper mostly because the Caper rides lower in the water and my anchor drags a bit. I need to come up with a riser or sorts.
I don't have pictures of my drift anchor system with me, but I'll take some soon. This is my inspiration from Mickfish of NCKA...
(http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6672.0;attach=5706;image)
Mine is very similar. Note that the anchor line is stuck in the "anchor lock" which I removed on mine. If I knew how to weld I'd fabricate something better.
Brian
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Here's the rest of the orginal NCKA drift boat style anchor thread. Lots of pictures of anchor set ups from when this was first being tested out.
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,6672.0.html (http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,6672.0.html)
Thinking about the depth question of when to use these anchors, from reading the NCKA post I might be able to cut my rope length in half which would be good for reducing tangles.
Brian
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Good Link! Thanks!
My system looks similar to the one above but made from steel with 3 guides and a pulley at the bottom. I have no idea at this point how well it will work.
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Don't forget Zeelander's article on drift anchors..
http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?page=7 (http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?page=7)
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Checked Joe's today and the 3 lb anchor looks too small and the 5 lb anchor looks too big. No roller type clam cleats either. Did score a nice orange buoy that should look good with a NWKA sticker on it. Need to do more shopping.
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I use a 3 lb anchor with 3 lbs of chain. It's plenty.
As for the roller cleats.. check West Marine. I personally just use the cheaper plastic jam cleats which have no moving parts.
(http://www.kayakproshop.com/media/KayakParts/Closed_Jam_Cleat.jpg)
If you know what you're doing a slip knot tied through one of the pad eyes on the side of you kayak will also work in a pinch.
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Use the drift anchor when in stronger currents that requires your anchor attach point to be dead center. If you've ever anchored a bit cockeyed in a current, you know what I mean.
-Allen
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Use the drift anchor when in stronger currents that requires your anchor attach point to be dead center. If you've ever anchored a bit cockeyed in a current, you know what I mean.
-Allen
Thanks Pole2. Sounds like a good rule of thumb.
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Use the drift anchor when in stronger currents that requires your anchor attach point to be dead center. If you've ever anchored a bit cockeyed in a current, you know what I mean.
-Allen
Thanks Pole2. Sounds like a good rule of thumb.
That being said, I haven't seen a good drift anchor setup that is release-able. I'm sure one could come up with one ... I got a few ideas in mind.
-Allen
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I think most of them are release-able (i.e. just let all the line run through the pully) but few seem to be retrievable after release.
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If you were to use an open top roller puller, then use a simple jam cleat like shown above. By attaching a float (small crab float) to the end of your rope you could easily toss the anchor (since the rope is not enclosed or run through any hardware) if needed for safety or to chase a fish. No real need to "contain the rope" by threading it through enclosed hardware, as the weigh of the anchor will keep it in place. I will post a pic of the system I had on my drift boat that I plan to use on my yak for a drift rig.
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I will post a pic of the system I had on my drift boat that I plan to use on my yak for a drift rig.
Its been like two years...still waiting on the picture...just kidding of course but I would be interested.
Use the drift anchor when in stronger currents that requires your anchor attach point to be dead center. If you've ever anchored a bit cockeyed in a current, you know what I mean.
-Allen
So exactly how "dead center" are we talking about? How much forgiveness? I remember as rookies trying to drop anchor in the middle of the river and then thinking "We are going to die!" as the driftboat started swinging side to side. It took every man (4 idiots total) timing their weight shift side to side to keep the boat from tipping.
But now that I have assessed the situation at Deep Creek, I want to try and Anchor if safe. 40 ft of water, with max currents about 3 knots. But that swinging experience scares me. I am thinking it might happen by just shifting your weight? How bad is it with these systems? Fairly stable or does it start swinging immediately if you shift your weight away from dead center?
Everything I have read about these systems posted here sounds like it should work. I was thinking a 6 pound downrigger ball (has fins, won't roll) might enough...maybe not.
Thoughts? Should these systems work for my application?
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I am trying to decide on an anchor setup and have a couple questions.
1) Does the buoy serve any other purpose besides being able to retrieve it after ditching it to fight a fish?
2) If the answer to Q1 is no, is there any reason you couldn't run the anchor line though the ring, tie off to the zigzag cleat etc. and leave the winder and buoy on board until you are ready to ditch the anchor?
Allan
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The buoy does two things... 1.) as you mention it lets you retrieve it after you ditch it to fight a fish and 2.) it relieves some of the downward pressure on your kayak that occurs when you anchor in current.
Is there a reason you'd want a buoy and winder on board while your fishing? Seems like it would take up extra deck/tank well space and possibly get in the way.
Brian
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2) If the answer to Q1 is no, is there any reason you couldn't run the anchor line though the ring, tie off to the zigzag cleat etc. and leave the winder and buoy on board until you are ready to ditch the anchor?
Allan
If you do this, you're hard tied to your anchor in an emergency and you're more than likely off-center from the current.
Being off center is going to put more strain on your anchor. It can also create a swing with a hard direction change at the end.
Being hard tied to your anchor means that a floating tree could ruin you day. It also makes it really difficult to drop off anchor when you hook up. In the best case, dropping off anchor consists of simply pulling up on the end of your stern line.
One of the main features of the bs system is that your bow or stern line threads thru a ring on the buoy/spool assembly. This ring slides to the end of the kayak, centering you in the current. To release, you simply pull your bow/stern line out of its cleat.
-Spot-
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Is there a reason you'd want a buoy and winder on board while your fishing? Seems like it would take up extra deck/tank well space and possibly get in the way.
Brian
My reasoning was out of consideration for FishesTupperware's comment on the drag created by the winder and trying to find a way around floating the winder. I take it you've yet to expereince a problem with that and I'm just over thinking it?
Allan
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You may also want to consider the depth of the water in which you are anchoring. When fishing for sturgeon in 10-12' of water I left the reel at home and just brought a 50' length and a 25' extender. I never used the extender, and 50' was plenty easy to retrieve by hand.
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thanks for sharing I will look to make something of this nature in the weeks to come.