NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Product Discussions => Topic started by: Madoc on July 07, 2009, 10:20:05 PM
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I took my Outback on the Willamette today to get in some water time, and to test out the turbo fin and sailing rudder upgrades. The sailing rudder really makes a difference - and the turbo fins helped out a little bit. Of course, I found the gravel bar next to the Oaks Bottom, and ripped the brand new fins open (6+ feet of water down to 8 inches in five feet at 5 knots does a number). At least I didn't bend the shafts. Oh well.
Anyway, the Outback paddles like a pig. I have very limited experience with paddling, but holy crap. The boat tracks for about 5 or 6 strokes, and then it goes wherever it wants to. By "wherever it wants," I basically mean it circles port or starboard - and paddling either side just makes it worse.
So, beside learning how to paddle correctly, what can I do to fix this (and yes, the rudder was up)?
Cheers,
Madoc
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One thing to know about any Hobie kayak is they're made so that they don't track perfectly. The idea is they want the rudder to turn the kayak. This design gives the kayak the tightest turning radius possible.
Being that way paddling some Hobie models can take a bit of adjustment. There's a few things you can do. First, leave the rudder down. I find that I can paddle 30 or more strokes before I need to correct the rudder. You also need to even out the force you putting into each stroke. Your dominant arm will pull harder and that's probably why you're having such a hard time. Lastly, you've got one of the hardest Hobies to paddle. I had that yak for a few years and I never really liked paddling it. I could get it to work but it's not it's strong suit. But, you don't need to paddle that much anyway. ;)
Z
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Madoc,
Zee should be able to answer your Hobie related questions. Hopefully you're fins aren't unrepairable. I think there are a few things you will learn to do with your fins when dealing with things like kelp and shallow water. I've never pedaled a kayak so I wouldn't know what those are.
The outback is a notorious piggy when paddled. That said you should be able to gain some proficiency with better paddling technique. Oh.. and having the rudder down should actually help with your tracking. At least that's a rudder's purpose on a normal kayak. Hobies are fairly unique in their use of rudders primarily for steering a kayak.
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If your trim is off to one side or the other the boat will turn to the higher side.
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Tried it with the rudder down, which seemed to fix the pull a little bit, but then I ended up paddling almost exclusively on the side the rudder was turned - I would get 10-15 strokes with that arrangement before adjusting the tiller and then paddling the other side.
Part of what I think was contributing to the spin may have been from what ever I am doing with the paddle right at the very end of the stroke - right about when the blade passes my hip is when the spin starts. I think the blade is in water for another split second, as I am finishing my stroke and lifting the blade just after it passes my hip. I guess I need to watch a few videos or take a class on paddling form.
I knew ahead of time that this thing wasn't built for paddling. I'm just hoping that it tracks long enough with the rudder up to be useful in gentle surf launches.
And the fins are okay - they have holes in them now, but that is easily fixed with goop.
Thanks for the advice guys.
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I knew ahead of time that this thing wasn't built for paddling. I'm just hoping that it tracks long enough with the rudder up to be useful in gentle surf launches.
Most whitewater or surf boats do NOT track at all. The "responsiveness" of the kayak is an asset in these situations.
-Allen
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Madoc...... you being in pdx.... go to Alder Creek and take some of there classes.. I took therebasic paddling for beginers class at the paddle fest. and It helped me alot.
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Before I sold my old Outback, I noticed the same thing (and the draft issues). It isn't just that it does not track well when paddled, the nature of its squirreliness is somewhat unpredictable, particularly when you have a head of steam. Classes with Alder Creek are a good idea, but the Outback is just squirrelly under paddle power (at least mine was).
I was able to keep mine in hand by keeping the speed and momentum down. Paddled at low speeds, it is still squirrelly but you can correct for it with a rudder stroke here and there. If the water is deep enough, you can use your rudder set to dead center to assist (but if the water is that deep you will probably be peddling). I never really did any surf launches with mine, but were I attempting that I'd just use the paddle to get me to a point where I could transition to the pedals.
For the Willy, coastal bays, etc... it is really a non-issue, as you can pretty much peddle everywhere and launch by walking the boat out a ways then hopping in. I'd definitely look into Alder Creek classes before trying surf launches anywhere but Sunset or Depoe Bays (and only use those with a wing man).
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Pulling past your hip is probably what's doing it.....or at least excentuating it. Your stroke should exit before you get to your hip. I tell people toes to knees in the hope that the blade exits by the hip.
You end up shoveling water and pushing the stern of the boat down when you pull past the hip. Increases drag, will make the boat not track, and decreses stability.
Also- you're probably stronger on one side right now, that will do it too. Try the toes to knees thing, and try to pull the paddle through the water by rotating your torso rather than paddling with your arms. your top hand should travel right in front of your face in a horizontal motion. a dipping hand will cause you to turn also.
Also-if the wind was blowing, the stern will want to drift down wind. it's just little things you will get the hang of with more time in your yak.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.We could shake some of those habits pretty easy in our Basic Skills Kayak Class. http://www.aldercreek.com
NANOOK.
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Also- What length paddle are you using?...if it's huge like a 250cm...you are basically doing a turning stroke every time. The closer to the boat your stroke is, the straighter it will go. the further out the stroke is, the more turning effect it will have.
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I have a revolution...I'm sure its not as bad as the outback but it still isn't great...I think Zee's explanation is dead on...if the boat tracked to well the rudder would not turn the boat enough to be effective...
At first it was almost impossible to keep my boat straight...As I tried it a little more and a little more (trust me I don't paddle often and I never have prior to owning this boat) it seemed to get a little easier and I tried to even my power out...tone down one side and put more power into other depending on which seemed to be lacking strength...but even now with the rudder up if i get going say more than about 3 kts if the boat starts to turn at all there is no recovering it...once its gone its gone...i just have to wait for it to stop turning then start paddling again...
with the rudder down i can paddle a pretty good ways without adjusting but it sure does get annoyying having to adjust it every 20-30 yards or whatever...
but I didn't buy the boat for its paddling ability :)
I should take a class also...but I can tell you I probably won't...hopefully experience and watching others will improve my ability over time...till then I'll just pedal with them :)
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$65 and 4 hours and you will never drift off track again. One of the benefits of using a paddle is you can use it to rudder, draw, or pry at the bow, stern, or where ever so there is always a way to recover your line.
Just my thought.
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$65 and 4 hours and you will never drift off track again. One of the benefits of using a paddle is you can use it to rudder, draw, or pry at the bow, stern, or where ever so there is always a way to recover your line.
Just my thought.
That sounds like the Strokes and Manuevers class I'm taking next Saturday... ;D
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you are correct sir. 8)