NorthWest Kayak Anglers

Kayak Fishing => Drillin' & Cuttin' => Topic started by: Spot on December 01, 2008, 10:04:17 PM

Title: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 01, 2008, 10:04:17 PM
Before becoming a yak man, my favorite fishing was done on coastal streams in the Fall and Winter.  So, using my kayaks to access these waters seemed only natural.  Necessity being the mother that it is, Fall found me knee deep in the manufacture of a drift anchor for my Cobra Fish-n-Dive.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_46_31_1.jpg)

I leveraged off the groundwork laid by our brothers at NCKA, settling on a design similar in concept to the PVC anchor system by mickfish.   His design fit my needs to a T: Removable, non-penetrative and simple.  But, the strength of the structure and potential for drag and abrasion of the anchor line left room for improvisation.
Being that I'm a cheap bastard, the issue of strength was rendered mute when I found a piece of scrapped Unistrut P4100 (the flatter variety).  Sure it was a little heavy at 5lbs but it offered multiple ways of attaching hardware and was rated to over 1800lbs at 18 unbraced inches. 
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_46_32_2.jpg)

Materials List:

Construction:
~ 5 feet of Unistrut P4100
4x Stainless Screws with lockwashers and nuts
3x Stainless Eye bolts with lockwashers and nuts
1x Single wheel pulley

Installation:
2x 2 inch J-bolts with large flat washers and nuts
1x 5 inch J-bolt with large 2 flat washers, 1 nut and 1 wingnut
2.5” x 4” piece of 1” closed cell foam

Tools:
Bandsaw
Hacksaw
Power Drill
Rasp

My 1st task was to cut two pieces from the unistrut.  A short piece which would act as a crossmember to counter the lever forces applied to the main strut and a longer piece that would bear the weight of the anchor and keep it far enough away so as to avoid contact with the kayak when not in use. 
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_44_52_3.JPG)

Next, I notched and flattened one side of the crossmember creating a pocket that would receive the main strut. Then, I notched the joining end of the main strut so it would fit the contour of the pocket in the crossmember. Once this was completed, the two pieces were fitted together, checked for proper alignment and fastened with two screws.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_44_51_2.JPG)

Time to add the hardware:
I chose to place the pulley on the bottom of the assembly and feed the anchor line down Through one of the regular slots in the unistrut.  This was done to avoid any potential for the line hopping the pulley. 
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_44_52_4.jpg)

The 3 stainless eye bolts were then installed with nylock nuts and washers.  The 1st eye bolt guides the rope through the hole to the pulley, the 2nd guides the rope through a turn  to the 3rd eye bolt and the 3rd guides the rope around the milk crate.  (The 3rd was moved over even farther after the test run.)  Surprisingly, this arrangement creates very little friction.

Finally, it's time to attach this assembly to the yak.  The attachment was made very simply.  A 5” J-Bolt was calibrated with a nut and large washer to hold the main strut at the correct height.  Once in place (hooked through the rear eyelet), a large washer and wing nut were used on the opposite side to sandwich the main strut, keeping it at the right height and minimizing shift. 
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_46_31_0.jpg)

A small square of closed cell foam was placed between the main strut and the kayak to reduce compression and impact stresses.  Smaller J-Bolts were used at the ends of the crossmember to secure it to eyelets at the back of the rear well.  An unintended benefit of using unistrut is that the crossmember straddles the eyelets perfectly, eliminating contact with the kayak itself.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_44_51_1.jpg)

And voila!  My need for a drift anchor is fulfilled.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/gallery/150_01_12_08_11_44_51_0.jpg)

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: bsteves on December 01, 2008, 10:57:35 PM
Very nice Mark, I have a version very much like Mickfish's and I'm looking forward to trying it out some more this winter.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 02, 2008, 07:20:34 AM
Nice.. Where does one find Unistrut?  I made mine out of scrap aluminum, but I am not really happy with its "fit" to the yak.  The unistrut looks like a perfect material! I have two fish and dives to get dialed in for river drifting before the main run of fish (steelhead) reach the coastal rivers!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 02, 2008, 09:07:16 AM
Nice.. Where does one find Unistrut?  I made mine out of scrap aluminum, but I am not really happy with its "fit" to the yak.  The unistrut looks like a perfect material! I have two fish and dives to get dialed in for river drifting before the main run of fish (steelhead) reach the coastal rivers!

The 1st thing I thought when I saw that material was "That's the ultimate Erector Set!!!".   ;D

I got lucky and snagged mine from an industrial re-model.  You can however buy it at places like Platt Electric Supply in Portland.  I think you should also be able to find it at plumbing supply stores.  If you don't mind a little extra weight and cost, they make "T-Joints" so you don't have to cut, pound and bend like I chose to.

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 02, 2008, 09:40:22 PM
Stoked to see so much interest in drift anchors on this site.  I have started making my newest ones out of relatively light steel with enough kick to get the anchor all the way out of the water.  Here is a pic...
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 02, 2008, 09:45:54 PM
Finished and ready for action...
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 02, 2008, 09:47:35 PM
Success...

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 02, 2008, 10:12:08 PM
Nice set-up SBD! 

How much weight are you using?

I found that 10lbs just isn't giving me the bite I need.  How much is too much?
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 02, 2008, 10:14:16 PM
7-10 pounds.  Try more scope if its not biting. And shape is a factor.  The first anchor I made a few years ago was 10 pounds of lead molded in a soup can...disaster...it just rolled downstream!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: bsteves on December 02, 2008, 10:16:15 PM
Welcome Sean,

I have to say, I kind of miss your old NCKA moniker.. "SCWAfish".   I caught the complete report on NCKA and enjoyed all of the fish porn so I'm sharing the link to it for others to enjoy as well.

http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,15551.0/topicseen.html (http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,15551.0/topicseen.html)

The T11 is looking like a great little river boat and I think I should see if can't still pick one up before the steelhead season is over.

Brian
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: ZeeHawk on December 02, 2008, 10:47:44 PM
Hey SBD, good to see you over here on NWKA bruddah.

Z
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 02, 2008, 11:01:38 PM
Quote
"SCWAfish"

I hear ya, but I'm not there anymore and it always confused folks...its funy that everyone knows what SBD means.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 03, 2008, 01:59:53 AM
Spot and anyone else local to me that plans to use the Unistrut or similar material, and want a solid permanent attachement at the "T" joint, just let me know.  I have da tools to get're done!  I can also very easly make that notch with my plasma cutter in seconds. 

(http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Tools/Plasma%20Cutter/plasmacut01.jpg)
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 03, 2008, 05:35:35 AM
Thanks Z, I saw all the anchor stuff and i realized these are my kind of people!!

Very sweet setup insayn!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 03, 2008, 04:16:03 PM
Spot and anyone else local to me that plans to use the Unistrut or similar material, and want a solid permanent attachement at the "T" joint, just let me know.  I have da tools to get're done!  I can also very easly make that notch with my plasma cutter in seconds. 


Thanks for the offer!  I think I'll probably take you up on this.

Maybe we can collaborate on a design for our Tridents also.....
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 03, 2008, 07:06:51 PM
Stoked to see so much interest in drift anchors on this site.  I have started making my newest ones out of relatively light steel with enough kick to get the anchor all the way out of the water.  Here is a pic...
I'm wondering if the top bolts could be turned around & wing nuts used to make this configuration easily removable? I'd be real interested in that.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 03, 2008, 08:36:32 PM
All six bolts screw into the stock threaded rudder mounts.  You can take it off in less than a minute, even faster with a Makita.  Here is another angle...

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 03, 2008, 09:29:45 PM
All six bolts screw into the stock threaded rudder mounts.  You can take it off in less than a minute, even faster with a Makita.  Here is another angle...
Pardon my ignorance, but what are stock threaded rudder mounts? Do you put the bolts back in after removal so the the yak won't take on water?
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 03, 2008, 09:57:54 PM
Spot and anyone else local to me that plans to use the Unistrut or similar material, and want a solid permanent attachement at the "T" joint, just let me know.  I have da tools to get're done!  I can also very easly make that notch with my plasma cutter in seconds. 


Thanks for the offer!  I think I'll probably take you up on this.

Maybe we can collaborate on a design for our Tridents also.....


Absolutely!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 03, 2008, 09:59:05 PM
All six bolts screw into the stock threaded rudder mounts.  You can take it off in less than a minute, even faster with a Makita.  Here is another angle...



Nice!  I'm even more impressed now.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 04, 2008, 07:41:33 AM
Quote
Pardon my ignorance, but what are stock threaded rudder mounts? Do you put the bolts back in after removal so the the yak won't take on water?

Most SOTs have a number of threaded lugs that are cast into them for mounts that need to be strong.  Typical spots would include the rudder and the carry handles.  The threaded lugs are "blind"...in other words the hole doesn't go all the way through so they are always sealed.

These threaded lugs are great for attaching anchors if your yak has them.  The new OKs have six on the stern which is ideal. My old MK boats had two lugs for the handle and two lugs for the rudder which also worked well...

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 04, 2008, 07:48:44 AM
My Mini-X only had two lugs for the rear handle.  While it never had any issues, I was never in love with two bolts in a single plane...


Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 04, 2008, 07:49:54 AM
It never bothered the fish however...
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: steelheadr on December 04, 2008, 09:05:12 AM
Quote
Pardon my ignorance, but what are stock threaded rudder mounts? Do you put the bolts back in after removal so the the yak won't take on water?

Most SOTs have a number of threaded lugs that are cast into them for mounts that need to be strong.  Typical spots would include the rudder and the carry handles.  The threaded lugs are "blind"...in other words the hole doesn't go all the way through so they are always sealed.

These threaded lugs are great for attaching anchors if your yak has them.  The new OKs have six on the stern which is ideal. My old MK boats had two lugs for the handle and two lugs for the rudder which also worked well...



I'll look at the rudder mounts on my Big Game. Since I won't be putting a rudder on, a removable drift anchor mount seems ideal.

Thanks to all for the ideas and support,
Jay
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 04, 2008, 09:32:27 AM
Glad to help.  Nice to see yakkers similarly obsessed with river salmonids.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: bsteves on December 04, 2008, 11:16:52 AM
Glad to help.  Nice to see yakkers similarly obsessed with river salmonids.

Sean, that's mostly what we have around here (Portland at least).... rivers and salmonids.  Well.. we also have rivers and sturgeon.  Thanks for pioneering some of this for us down in NorCal, I'm hoping some of will see some decent steelhead action this winter.

Brian
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 04, 2008, 12:50:11 PM
Quote
Pardon my ignorance, but what are stock threaded rudder mounts? Do you put the bolts back in after removal so the the yak won't take on water?

Most SOTs have a number of threaded lugs that are cast into them for mounts that need to be strong.  Typical spots would include the rudder and the carry handles.  The threaded lugs are "blind"...in other words the hole doesn't go all the way through so they are always sealed.

These threaded lugs are great for attaching anchors if your yak has them.  The new OKs have six on the stern which is ideal. My old MK boats had two lugs for the handle and two lugs for the rudder which also worked well...
Thanx. I've got an early model Cobra Fish n' Dive. Doesn't have the built in mounts, so I'd have to drill holes & secure the mount so it wouldn't leak or work loose. Spot's configuration may be what I'd have to go with, but for now I think I'll install the quick release anchor/float system. I like the way the drift anchor hangs free from the yak though. I'll stay tuned & keep learning. It's sounding like the the innovations have just begun. Hmm... wonder how the free hanging drift & quick release anchor/float systems could be combined? Creative minds produce excellent results!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 04, 2008, 01:04:26 PM
The Cobra stern is a whole 'nuther critter.  If you look at page 2 of this thread... http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,6672.0.html (http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,6672.0.html) you can see a few different Cobra mounts.  My good friend Fishshim's is really nicely made and works very well.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 05, 2008, 03:32:25 PM
If folks can round up their own lead, I can make the mold for pouring pyramid anchors pretty easily.  I have made one for another feller on IFish.com that would make up to at least 75 lb anchors.  Heating and pouring 50+ lbs of lead is dangerous, but 5-20lbs isn't too bad.  The mold I made was such that the bottom of the anchor was flat instead of pointed.  Made it less likely to dent the floor of a boat when brought on board.

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: bsteves on December 05, 2008, 03:40:03 PM
Ten lb drift boat anchors run about $20-25 at places like Joes and Fisherman's Marine.  They're a little pricey, but convenient.   

If anyone has a bunch of lead already though, INSAYN's offer would might save you some money. 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 05, 2008, 07:55:07 PM
All the anchors Shimmy molded were from from a bucket of tire weights we got for free!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 05, 2008, 08:01:54 PM
I got about 100# of lead ... but  it's in San Jose.   >:(  I wonder what the airlines would think if I carried a 50# bar on the plane.   ;)

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: [WR] on December 05, 2008, 08:15:11 PM
they'd think, "SUCKER!!" as they charged you $50.00 - $75.00 for excess baggage..... >:D

oh! WAIT! u cant ship lead by air, it's on the aerial hazmat banned list.. sorry,
 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 08, 2008, 08:09:41 PM
just a heads up.. Home Depot carries unistrut, or at least a like product.. 15$ for ten feet
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 10, 2008, 04:01:17 PM
Alrighty!  Now that my Lasik correction has calmed down and I can actually see again, lets start talking anchor molds. 

The mold I made last year was a typical four sided pyramid. 

Now, for kayaks would a three sided pyramid (tetrahedron) be a better idea? 
(http://www.math.fau.edu/locke/Graphs/Tetrahedron.jpg)

Thinking that it would spread out the sides and give all three sides more surface area, yet still be low profile? 

Also it would be super easy to make over the 4 sided. 

Whatcha think?
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 10, 2008, 05:51:33 PM
Alrighty!  Now that my Lasik correction has calmed down and I can actually see again, lets start talking anchor molds. 

The mold I made last year was a typical four sided pyramid. 

Now, for kayaks would a three sided pyramid (tetrahedron) be a better idea? 
(http://www.math.fau.edu/locke/Graphs/Tetrahedron.jpg)

Thinking that it would spread out the sides and give all three sides more surface area, yet still be low profile? 

Also it would be super easy to make over the 4 sided. 

Whatcha think?
That does look like a more efficient design. I think it would work better.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: boxofrain on December 11, 2008, 06:34:52 AM
much better looking than my "bag-o-rocks" anchor too!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 11, 2008, 06:40:02 AM
That does look cool.  I am making a new one this weekend....moltel  metal...YEAH!!!
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 07:22:28 AM
What's a good way to make a mold for a pyramid anchor?

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: boxofrain on December 11, 2008, 07:35:04 AM
I have used wet clean sand. Not a pretty finish though
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 11, 2008, 09:09:07 AM
I have a mold.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 09:10:45 AM
I have a mold.

I'll bring the lead ...   ::)

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 11, 2008, 09:16:21 AM
be very careful!  water or moisture of any kind with molten lead can be dangerous..  don't ask how I know this, I have a couple "freckles" that a drop of sweat gave me.   Ventilation is your friend too.   Adding a binder like plaster of paris to moist masonry sand, forming your anchor mold (in a bucket or wooden form), then allowing it to dry, then pour the lead. Break the sand/plaster mold and viola!  anchor...
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 10:45:33 AM
What's a good way to make a mold for a pyramid anchor?

-Allen


I just weld steel together.  I use new 3/16" sheet so there is a smooth finish. 

The more difficult part is heating up 10-20 lbs of lead and successfully pouring it without a big mess.   ;D

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 01:52:29 PM
Now, I know the tradition is to have the anchor with the point down, but what if we made it where you you could have it work flat side down?  Or, used either way?  Basically put a hole down the center and using a creative design, make the anchor be work either upright, or upside down.  Would it matter much, or does any veteran users see a use for such an option?   
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 11, 2008, 02:05:13 PM
In moving water, the leading edge is what causes the anchor to "hold" on the bottom.  The lip of the flat side is what drags and finds purchase on the bottom. In still water like a lake I don't think it would matter
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 11, 2008, 02:27:08 PM
In moving water, the leading edge is what causes the anchor to "hold" on the bottom.  The lip of the flat side is what drags and finds purchase on the bottom. In still water like a lake I don't think it would matter
is the leading edge the part of the anchor facing 1st into the current?
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 11, 2008, 02:45:00 PM
Imagine the pyramid anchor on its side with the eye (where you tie the rope)  facing down river (this is how they lay with a boat pulling on them in a moving river). I call the leading edge the bottom edge (of the face with the rope eye) that is in contact with the river bottom, this edge is what grabs and or plows itself into the river rock and holds the boat.

I think I am the one who needs the technical writing class ::)
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 02:55:35 PM
I guess that would make it not worth the effort to figure that whole angle out.   ;D

Now, have we decided on a good weight?  Is 10lbs the magic number, provided shape plays an integral role in the holding action? 

Once I have an idea on the range of weight you want to play with, I can start constructing a mold and play around with.   I'm leaning heavy towards the tetrahedron shaped anchor as I can see it giving a wider leading edge for the same  volume of weight.   

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 03:08:32 PM
Some designs also have a flat point (cut the top off a pyramid).  I would think this would give you an even bigger leading edge as well ...

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 11, 2008, 03:46:50 PM
the small anchor is a 20lber.. it is what I use on my yak and it works fine.

the leading edge I am talking about is the edge at the bottom anchor face.. you can see in the pic how it would plow into the rocks and hold.

also the 3 sided vers the trad  4 side for comparison. 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 11, 2008, 04:36:19 PM
on your existing anchors, what's the surface area [1/2 (base x height)] of the 3-sided anchor compared to the 4-sided of the same weight? length of leading edge? i could be wrong, maybe 3 sided is better for maintaining position?
(picture from http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol1/area_triangle.html)
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 04:41:29 PM
Some designs also have a flat point (cut the top off a pyramid).  I would think this would give you an even bigger leading edge as well ...

-Allen


Wrong end Allen, unless you were referring to my first idea of reversing the anchor to still have the weight, but not as much bite. 

I guess the only upside to having movement would be in a sandy, or light gravel stream bed that allowed you to slowwly drag the the anchor down stream so you could fish while you bumbled along. 

I don't even know if this is a viable way to fish!  ;D
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 04:45:08 PM
Some designs also have a flat point (cut the top off a pyramid).  I would think this would give you an even bigger leading edge as well ...

-Allen


Wrong end Allen, unless you were referring to my first idea of reversing the anchor to still have the weight, but not as much bite. 

I guess the only upside to having movement would be in a sandy, or light gravel stream bed that allowed you to slowwly drag the the anchor down stream so you could fish while you bumbled along. 

I don't even know if this is a viable way to fish!  ;D

Which end are you talking about then?

What I'm saying is that if you cut to "top of a pyramid" off (where the bottom of the pyramid is where the rope attaches), then you need to add more stuff at the bottom of the pyramid to make up for lost weight.  This effectively increases the area of the bottom of the pyramid.  Isn't that the side you are trying to increase the leading edge on?

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 04:50:18 PM
on your existing anchors, what's the surface area [1/2 (base x height)] of the 3-sided anchor compared to the 4-sided? length of leading edge? i could be wrong, maybe 3 sided is better?
(picture from http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol1/area_triangle.html)

I'm definitely not a math junkie, so me getting all into geometry is not a good idea.  However, just looking at say 10 pounds of lead poured into either 3 or 4 sided anchors of the same overall height, I would venture to guess that the 3 sided unit would have a wider face.  Maybe even much wider.  Whether this matters a whole lot or not, I don't really know?   
I do know that the 3 sided mold would be hella lot easier to fab up.   ;D

Now, lets talk connection points molded into the anchor?   Mild steel, stainless steel, brass rod, galvanized chain, or other? 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 11, 2008, 04:53:07 PM
bingo Pole !   you want a large "face" to plow into the river gravel and you want weight to give it enough drag for the face to bite.

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 04:55:05 PM
Allen, I see what your saying. 
The mold itself could be formed with a flat bottom (like the one I made in the past), thus when the given amount of lead is poured it would push the leading edge to a wider point for sure.  This would all depend on how much of the point you remove, as to how much of the face will increase.   

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 04:58:48 PM
Allen, I see what your saying. 
The mold itself could be formed with a flat bottom (like the one I made in the past), thus when the given amount of lead is poured it would push the leading edge to a wider point for sure.  This would all depend on how much of the point you remove, as to how much of the face will increase.   



I guess you'd need to be careful not to remove too much of the top, otherwise the pyramid could tip and roll.

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 11, 2008, 05:26:06 PM
FYI-my yak anchor only weighs 9 pounds and it has been fine.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 11, 2008, 08:09:57 PM
I guess the good thing about making molds, is that if the leading edge is too small, weight is too light, or any other factor renders the anchor less than optimal, we can fix it!  ;D    It's easy enough to melt it back down, and do something different with it. 
 
Hmmm?

Maybe I'll tinker with it a bit tomorrow? 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 11, 2008, 08:49:38 PM
The volume of a tetrahedron  (pyramid with a equilateral triangles on all sides) is equal to sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12, where a is the length of an edge.

The volume of a pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles as sides is equal to sqrt(2) * (b^3) / 6, where b is the length of an edge.

Solving for the relationship of a to b assuming equal volume of the two pyramids yields.

sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12 = sqrt(2) * (b^3)  / 6
              (a^3) / 12 =               (b^3) / 6
              (a^3)        =               (b^3) * 2
               a             =              ((b^3) * 2)^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 2^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 1.2599

Therefore the leading edge of a tetrahedron is 1.2599 times the leading edge of the pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles for sides.

However, this assumes the triangles are equilateral.  My head is hurting from this one, is yours?  What if the goal was to make sure the angles of the sides of the pyramid were the same for both cases, so the pyramids would sit at the same angle on the bottom.  Would the sides still be equilateral for pyramids of the same volume?  I'll leave this to the "next nerd" to do the analysis.   ;D

-Allen

Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 11, 2008, 08:50:38 PM
FYI-my yak anchor only weighs 9 pounds and it has been fine.

Man, I couldn't hold a good spot with 10lbs.  If I scoped too much rope, I wound up on a merry-go-round down current and then back up the eddy.  I guess I'll have to get in some more practice soon.  Bummer  ;D
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: steelheadr on December 11, 2008, 08:53:28 PM
The volume of a tetrahedron  (pyramid with a equilateral triangles on all sides) is equal to sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12, where a is the length of an edge.

The volume of a pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles as sides is equal to sqrt(2) * (b^3) / 6, where b is the length of an edge.

Solving for the relationship of a to b assuming equal volume of the two pyramids yields.

sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12 = sqrt(2) * (b^3)  / 6
              (a^3) / 12 =               (b^3) / 6
              (a^3)        =               (b^3) * 2
               a             =              ((b^3) * 2)^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 2^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 1.2599

Therefore the leading edge of a tetrahedron is 1.2599 times the leading edge of the pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles for sides.

However, this assumes the triangles are equilateral.  My head is hurting from this one, is yours?  What if the goal was to make sure the angles of the sides of the pyramid were the same for both cases, so the pyramids would sit at the same angle on the bottom.  Would the sides still be equilateral for pyramids of the same volume?  I'll leave this to the "next nerd" to do the analysis.   ;D

-Allen


I need some help with all that math.

Oh, here it is...  :ky:

 :D
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: SBD on December 11, 2008, 09:43:04 PM
I have used the same anchor on my X-Factor, Mini-X, and my T11. It ought to hold.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: ZeeHawk on December 12, 2008, 09:46:22 AM
FYI-my yak anchor only weighs 9 pounds and it has been fine.

Man, I couldn't hold a good spot with 10lbs.  If I scoped too much rope, I wound up on a merry-go-round down current and then back up the eddy.  I guess I'll have to get in some more practice soon.  Bummer  ;D

I'm guessing you anchored w/ the Fish and Dive? Since SBD is fine w/ only 9# could be possible that anchored from the stern the F&D isn't as hydrodynamic as his X-Factor, Mini-X, and T11? Therefore the drag is pulling you downriver? Just a thought.

Z
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Pelagic on December 12, 2008, 09:56:01 AM
20lb holds my fnd.. I don't think 9 would cut it, at least not in moderate speed moving water. River bottom composition has a lot to do with it too.  I also know the fnd is not the most hydrodynamic of boats when anchored from the stern. It's lack of rocker in the stern make me a little nervous and careful where I drop the anchor.  I always use plenty of scope and stay away from heavy current. I just use it to hop from hole to hole then either sit sideways and fish or get out and wade.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 12, 2008, 09:57:08 AM
FYI-my yak anchor only weighs 9 pounds and it has been fine.

Man, I couldn't hold a good spot with 10lbs.  If I scoped too much rope, I wound up on a merry-go-round down current and then back up the eddy.  I guess I'll have to get in some more practice soon.  Bummer  ;D

I'm guessing you anchored w/ the Fish and Dive? Since SBD is fine w/ only 9# could be possible that anchored from the stern the F&D isn't as hydrodynamic as his X-Factor, Mini-X, and T11? Therefore the drag is pulling you downriver? Just a thought.

Z

You could be right.  There's not a lot of rocker in the tail of my F-n-D and I can really feel the effects of the keel when trying to change lines in the fast water.  It might also have something to do with the volume of water that moves thru the Nestucca.  Even the soft water is moving pretty fast down that river.  

I'll have to get together with INSAYN to fab a Trident drift anchor and maybe pour a 15lb pyramid for the F-n-D.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 12, 2008, 10:04:54 AM
Allen - Thanks for the math class, now my head hurtz.  ;D

Ya'll, what would be the longest measurement a person would want their anchor to be from hanger loop to pointy tip, while dangling in the air? 
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: PNW on December 12, 2008, 02:06:41 PM
The volume of a tetrahedron  (pyramid with a equilateral triangles on all sides) is equal to sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12, where a is the length of an edge.

The volume of a pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles as sides is equal to sqrt(2) * (b^3) / 6, where b is the length of an edge.

Solving for the relationship of a to b assuming equal volume of the two pyramids yields.

sqrt(2) * (a^3) / 12 = sqrt(2) * (b^3)  / 6
              (a^3) / 12 =               (b^3) / 6
              (a^3)        =               (b^3) * 2
               a             =              ((b^3) * 2)^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 2^(1/3)
               a             =                b       * 1.2599

Therefore the leading edge of a tetrahedron is 1.2599 times the leading edge of the pyramid with a square base and equilateral triangles for sides.

However, this assumes the triangles are equilateral.  My head is hurting from this one, is yours?  What if the goal was to make sure the angles of the sides of the pyramid were the same for both cases, so the pyramids would sit at the same angle on the bottom.  Would the sides still be equilateral for pyramids of the same volume?  I'll leave this to the "next nerd" to do the analysis.   ;D

-Allen
thought that might be the case, but started to smell burning insulation when trying to figure out the math. thanks Allen

hey now... did you get a chance to figure out why recent pics aren't showing up in the gallery?  ??? :angel12: ;D tried uploading again today from Foxfire & IE... no luck. I'm wondering if somthins wrong w/ my computer. anyone else having this problem?
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: Spot on December 12, 2008, 02:23:55 PM

Ya'll, what would be the longest measurement a person would want their anchor to be from hanger loop to pointy tip, while dangling in the air? 

I'll venture a guess here and say that the critical limitation (beyond the fact that increased height would result in decreased length of "holding edge") would be the distance from the pulley to the surface of the water.  Only bad things can come from your anchor dragging in the water.
It appears that all the pyramid anchors I've looked at are equilateral triangles   
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: polepole on December 12, 2008, 06:01:58 PM
Am I going to have to toss back a couple shots of scotch and do the analysis or is some other math geek going to chime in?

-Allen
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: bsteves on December 12, 2008, 10:46:27 PM
Why are we doing all this math again?  Are we trying to reinvent the pyramid anchor?

As for the couple of shots of scotch... mmm scotch.  I think I'll get myself a dram of my Ardbeg.
Title: Re: My D.I.Y. Cobra Drift Anchor
Post by: INSAYN on December 12, 2008, 11:42:28 PM
Why are we doing all this math again?  Are we trying to reinvent the pyramid anchor?


Because we can!  :icon_thumright:

Ponder this:
If we didn't expect folks to "reinvent" a proven design, we would all be paddling logs instead of the variety of kayaks we have now.  We'd still be fishing with a bamboo stick, dental floss, a rock, and a safety pin. :o