NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => The Kayak Shack => Topic started by: parkie on November 04, 2021, 06:02:10 PM
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Hey all,
Looking to fish the Columbia and troll for salmon and also occasionally go crabbing/trolling at Garibaldi. Which kayak do you guys/gals recommend?
Native titan 10.5
Old town pdl 105
Old town pdl 120
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How much can you dead lift? The Titans are heavy. Car top or trailer?
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Deadlift around 240. Good point though, this will be cartop which is top of the range for the roof rack i have.
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Hobie Outback. ;D
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I have PDL 120 and love it.
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I think you may find either of the 10 foot boats too short for comfortably trolling on the Columbia and lacking the space needed to transport crab pots.
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Hobie Outback. ;D
If i could afford it, i probably would. But this is my first kayak and don't want to be spending $3k+ on the Kayak alone.
I have PDL 120 and love it.
Yes this was my first choice, until a 10.5 Native came on the market with all the bells and whistles for $2,000.
I think you may find either of the 10 foot boats too short for comfortably trolling on the Columbia and lacking the space needed to transport crab pots.
That was my suspicion, thanks for the confirmation :)
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I also have a PDL 120...heavy kayak, but incredibly stable. Would be a great crabbing platform and works well for trolling too. I agree about the 10' probably being shy on space.
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There are a couple used Outbacks up for sale on the forum and the LCKA facebook group. People seem to be pretty universally happy with the PDLs though. TOo heavy for my tastes, but seem like a good platform.
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I have a 12ft Outback & 10ft Native, love them both. For trolling the Columbia, I'd suggest 12ft.
The Native would be great for crabbing, not so great for fighting current and trolling.
Others make it work, but bicycle drives wears me out. The Hobie drive is much more efficient.
A Hobie Compass might check all of your boxes. Out of the 3 options you've presented, I'd go with the OT 12.
My $.02.
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Having owned a Hobie outback (still do but going to sell) and now a OT Sportsman 120 PDL I think it's tough to compare the two or pick based on what you are doing. For trolling I prefer the Hobie drive style, but the instant reverse and standing ability made the OT much better for my style of fishing, since I am more often than not bass fishing this was more important to me. I figure if I am going to be Bass fishing 80% of the time I should go with what is best for that, it doesn't mean I can't troll the Columbia for Salmon or Crab from it, the tankwell design in the OT may actually be better for crab pots as well... But ultimately the OT is not as ideal for ME for trolling. Until you try them both out I am not sure if you could know which you prefer. Some people love the bicycle motion and others like the fluttering hobie style. To me it didn't matter a whole lot either way and the cost of a new OT at $2,200 was a huge factor compared to the cost of a new outback.
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... The Hobie drive is much more efficient. ...
Do you have any actual data on this? I've wondered about it for some time -- how efficiently each system converts human power into propulsion.
I've read variously that the bicycle system is more efficient and that the mirage drive is more efficient, but I've never seen a reputable citation or source for either claim.
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Check out the Old Town Sportsman Salty PDL 120. Lots of great review videos on youtube. That or maybe a Hobie Compass (lighter, cheaper, streamlined hobie outback alternative).
Edit added below with a potential "deal" on a salty PDL (15-30% off) and where a few are currently available without having to pay extra for shipping.
Salty 120 PDL Pros/Cons
+ $1,999;
+ Curved front bow to take on waves;
+ Open front area for crab pot/fish bag;
+ Large back storage area;
+ 79 lbs unassembled (104 with removable drive and chair);
+ Sprints at up to 6.5 mph; 4.5 mph cruising speed with minimal effort;
+ Instant reverse;
+ Purportedly a quieter drive than the Hobie Mirage system (which can creak);
+ 5 year drive warranty; lifetime hull warranty (manufacturer defects);
+ Has some great cheap mods available at Navarre Kayak Fishing (who posts YouTube videos);
+ Drive system floats if it falls out.
- Out of stock practically everywhere. REI just got another shipment, however.
- 79 lbs unassembled (104 with drive and chair) is still somewhat heavy;
- Prop drive system, so can catch weeds easier than a Hobie drive;
- Needs 11-12" of water to operate;
- No accessible in-hull storage hatch (only one is under your seat);
- Hooking up a fish finder may require drilling unless you run the wire along the hull;
- Will likely want to add a short carry handle on the front/back (they're molded in).
Edit: I've now ordered one from REI for a third time. There's currently 9 left in their national warehouse system. If you select in-store pickup at the Hillsboro REI they may call to offer you a damaged one for 15-30% off (which I declined). I previously refused acceptance of that same one back in September--it got kissed by a forklift in a few places, and I'm not savvy/patient enough to fix it. If you might be and want a deal, however, select the Hillsboro REI store for pick-up and see what deal you can cut when the manager calls you. Unless someone else already took the plunge. Perhaps just call the Hillsboro store to speak to the manager before ordering?
From what I recall, the right mid-yak grab handle's embossed/raised old town logo was scraped off and there was minor, shallow scrapes on the rear left. But the front right of the kayak near the water-line was gouged pretty deeply over a few inches. I was surprised how thick the hull was. Looked like a forklift kissed it once or twice. With the proper equipment or know-how you could probably hobie solder/weld that with black/green plastic or possibly sand and epoxy it. My guess is that'd likely void the lifetime hull warranty, however.
I'll be picking up my now 3rd attempt at ordering one at the Tigard REI instead, to make sure that one stops following me around.
https://youtu.be/U55pG4NQAi0 (https://youtu.be/U55pG4NQAi0)
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... The Hobie drive is much more efficient. ...
Do you have any actual data on this? I've wondered about it for some time -- how efficiently each system converts human power into propulsion.
I've read variously that the bicycle system is more efficient and that the mirage drive is more efficient, but I've never seen a reputable citation or source for either claim.
He might mean that it’s more efficient for his own legs, as far as how long he can keep going without getting exhausted, rather than the pure mechanical efficiency. At least, that’s one way to read it…
Jim
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... The Hobie drive is much more efficient. ...
Do you have any actual data on this? I've wondered about it for some time -- how efficiently each system converts human power into propulsion.
I've read variously that the bicycle system is more efficient and that the mirage drive is more efficient, but I've never seen a reputable citation or source for either claim.
He might mean that it’s more efficient for his own legs, as far as how long he can keep going without getting exhausted, rather than the pure mechanical efficiency. At least, that’s one way to read it…
Jim
Yep, that's a reasonable interpretation. I guess I was hoping that Dungy knew of something definitive.
OP -- I don't have any experience w/ any of those boats. I do have experience w/ a heavy boat though (Perception Pescador) and I used this method to rooftop (dude talks way too much but it's the best vid I know of this technique):
https://youtu.be/gC6F_JmzseU?t=93
Made loading/unloading pretty easy peasy.
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OP -- I don't have any experience w/ any of those boats. I do have experience w/ a heavy boat though (Perception Pescador) and I used this method to rooftop (dude talks way too much but it's the best vid I know of this technique):
https://youtu.be/gC6F_JmzseU?t=93
Made loading/unloading pretty easy peasy.
WOW, that's one slick method for getting a boat up on top. Thanks
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... The Hobie drive is much more efficient. ...
Do you have any actual data on this? I've wondered about it for some time -- how efficiently each system converts human power into propulsion.
I've read variously that the bicycle system is more efficient and that the mirage drive is more efficient, but I've never seen a reputable citation or source for either claim.
He might mean that it’s more efficient for his own legs, as far as how long he can keep going without getting exhausted, rather than the pure mechanical efficiency. At least, that’s one way to read it…
Jim
Yes, that's exactly how I meant it. Not to hijack the thread but since it was asked, I personally find my Hobie to be much less demanding on my legs. And when friends use my Native I have to slow down in my Hobie or I'll leave them behind.
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Thanks everyone for the comments, even if it wasnt about the selection it was helpful information for a beginner.
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OP -- I don't have any experience w/ any of those boats. I do have experience w/ a heavy boat though (Perception Pescador) and I used this method to rooftop (dude talks way too much but it's the best vid I know of this technique):
https://youtu.be/gC6F_JmzseU?t=93
Made loading/unloading pretty easy peasy.
I load my kayak onto my SUV from the side, using a towel to protect the vehicle's paint. See https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=19202.msg204958#msg204958. A major advantage of the towel technique over the boat strap technique shown on the link quoted above is that with the towel method the kayak is between your front and back roof rack bar, so it can't slide off to the front or back of your vehicle. The risk of the boat strap technique is that if your vehicle is on a slope, with its front a bit high or low, when you're trying to get your kayak onto your roof rack, there is nothing to prevent your kayak from sliding off the boat strap and crashing down on the front or back of your vehicle, denting it and/or breaking off a mirror. Another disadvantage of the boat strap technique is that it puts a lot of sideways stress on your roof rack bars.
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Check out the Old Town Sportsman Salty PDL 120. Lots of great review videos on youtube. That or maybe a Hobie Compass (lighter, cheaper, streamlined hobie outback alternative).
Edit added below with a potential "deal" on a salty PDL (15-30% off) and where a few are currently available without having to pay extra for shipping.
Salty 120 PDL Pros/Cons
+ $1,999;
+ Curved front bow to take on waves;
+ Open front area for crab pot/fish bag;
+ Large back storage area;
+ 79 lbs unassembled (104 with removable drive and chair);
+ Sprints at up to 6.5 mph; 4.5 mph cruising speed with minimal effort;
+ Instant reverse;
+ Purportedly a quieter drive than the Hobie Mirage system (which can creak);
+ 5 year drive warranty; lifetime hull warranty (manufacturer defects);
+ Has some great cheap mods available at Navarre Kayak Fishing (who posts YouTube videos);
+ Drive system floats if it falls out.
- Out of stock practically everywhere. REI just got another shipment, however.
- 79 lbs unassembled (104 with drive and chair) is still somewhat heavy;
- Prop drive system, so can catch weeds easier than a Hobie drive;
- Needs 11-12" of water to operate;
- No accessible in-hull storage hatch (only one is under your seat);
- Hooking up a fish finder may require drilling unless you run the wire along the hull;
- Will likely want to add a short carry handle on the front/back (they're molded in).
Edit: I've now ordered one from REI for a third time. There's currently 9 left in their national warehouse system. If you select in-store pickup at the Hillsboro REI they may call to offer you a damaged one for 15-30% off (which I declined). I previously refused acceptance of that same one back in September--it got kissed by a forklift in a few places, and I'm not savvy/patient enough to fix it. If you might be and want a deal, however, select the Hillsboro REI store for pick-up and see what deal you can cut when the manager calls you. Unless someone else already took the plunge. Perhaps just call the Hillsboro store to speak to the manager before ordering?
From what I recall, the right mid-yak grab handle's embossed/raised old town logo was scraped off and there was minor, shallow scrapes on the rear left. But the front right of the kayak near the water-line was gouged pretty deeply over a few inches. I was surprised how thick the hull was. Looked like a forklift kissed it once or twice. With the proper equipment or know-how you could probably hobie solder/weld that with black/green plastic or possibly sand and epoxy it. My guess is that'd likely void the lifetime hull warranty, however.
I'll be picking up my now 3rd attempt at ordering one at the Tigard REI instead, to make sure that one stops following me around.
https://youtu.be/U55pG4NQAi0 (https://youtu.be/U55pG4NQAi0)
Thank you! I was albe to get the Salty at REI for 40% off!!
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40% off?! Very cool! The drive alone goes for around $900-1k, so you basically got a new drive and then the kayak for just a few hundred.
I’m supposed to get mine later this week. Fingers crossed their forklift driver isn’t the same as last time.
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BTW, here are Navarre Kayak's top three suggested mods:
https://youtu.be/8TrRQVDGvII (https://youtu.be/8TrRQVDGvII)
+ Rudder Bolt (firms up the rudder and allows for adjustments as the line can stretch over use);
+ Steering Knob Upgrade (supposedly makes it less likely to catch on your pdf/gear);
+ Floating Propeller Nut (tool-less on/off in case it gets wrapped in line).
I also picked up his Salty PDL drive spacers (some L/R slop can develop after a lot of use) and 1" rear seat risers (the seat is a bit too reclined for my personal preference).
Chances are you'll also want some marine grade lube for the drive shaft and shear pin. Here's his suggested 1-and-done drive system maintenance routine:
https://youtu.be/HOrgqm6rIFU (https://youtu.be/HOrgqm6rIFU)
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BTW, here are Navarre Kayak's top three suggested mods:
https://youtu.be/8TrRQVDGvII (https://youtu.be/8TrRQVDGvII)
+ Rudder Bolt (firms up the rudder and allows for adjustments as the line can stretch over use);
+ Steering Knob Upgrade (supposedly makes it less likely to catch on your pdf/gear);
+ Floating Propeller Nut (tool-less on/off in case it gets wrapped in line).
I also picked up his Salty PDL drive spacers (some L/R slop can develop after a lot of use) and 1" rear seat risers (the seat is a bit too reclined for my personal preference).
Chances are you'll also want some marine grade lube for the drive shaft and shear pin. Here's his suggested 1-and-done drive system maintenance routine:
https://youtu.be/HOrgqm6rIFU (https://youtu.be/HOrgqm6rIFU)
thanks! ive been watching his videos. Instead of buying his stuff i went to home depot got a 4inch 1/4 stainless steel hexbolt, 4 pack of nylon washers, 3 pack of nylon no slip nut for about 5 bucks and just installed it.
i also have a 3d printer and found the prop nut and spacers as a free design. i'll let you know if they turn out good or not. didnt know about the shear pin, i'll be doing that!
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i also have a 3d printer and found the prop nut and spacers as a free design. i'll let you know if they turn out good or not. didnt know about the shear pin, i'll be doing that!
Where'd you find the spacers? I've printed a handful of the prop nuts and like the design.
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i also have a 3d printer and found the prop nut and spacers as a free design. i'll let you know if they turn out good or not. didnt know about the shear pin, i'll be doing that!
Where'd you find the spacers? I've printed a handful of the prop nuts and like the design.
I havnt found spacer designs, however I will be testing out my own creation soon since it seems like its just a cylinder. I'll send you the STL when i complete it
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I havnt found spacer designs, however I will be testing out my own creation soon since it seems like its just a cylinder. I'll send you the STL when i complete it
It is just a cylinder but the hull is not flat so it's got angle to it, I tried several and just got fed up and decided to likely go the route of https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00207UHYA/?coliid=I1GAY2DZJKS1C4&colid=8PESERF460P3&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it but I certainly would would prefer a 3d printed option if possible.
I also 3d printed these guys. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4827487 which I have yet to try (weather has been horrible.) but I can see how they would be helpful when wanting to stand to fish.
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Made some cylinders. They are different widths because i didnt want to waste any more filament than i already did making these. Also the prop nut came out alright
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Pretty nice! I think the gaps in your salty are smaller than mine on the 120 PDL nice little mod.