NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => The Kayak Shack => Topic started by: Fishin8er on August 12, 2017, 08:33:31 PM
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Hi guys, I'm sorry to bother you all with a question you probably hear far too often, but I am having trouble finding a kayak that really "fits" what I am thinking would be ideal for me. I have done a lot of research but to no avail and so I am wondering if my ideal is not a very good ideal. Cost is not much of a factor for me. Firstly I am looking for a kayak that I can take to the coast and saltwater fish. Launch from la push and maybe some surf launches later on. I also like to do some bass and trout fishing and if I could stand when fishing lakes that would be great. I would like as much stability as possible. I also want something with a pedal drive so that I can fish hands free. I have heard that a good offshore kayak should be at the very least 13' long, and I am thinking something decent to stand in should be at least 32" wide. My thinking has been an ideal would be 14' long + and 32" + wide. Are those good figures to go by? The outback is only 12' but loads of guys love that boat offshore, the PA14 is well above those dimensions but most of what ive heard is that its not good offshore (not sure why, maybe because of surf launching?). I have not found many pedal drives that really fit what I am thinking. I have looked at the predator pdl, jacksons kayaks, the native boats, the raptor g2, wilderness ststems (the radar 135 does look nice), feelfree kayaks, and the hobies. I am even thinking maybe it would be good to get the hobie adventure island and use it with 1 ama or buy a paddle kayak and retrofil a mirage drive in it.. I guess I'm just not totally sure what makes a good offshore fishing kayak and why, is it length, width, hull shape, and in what proportions. You guys have the experience, what do you think/recommend???
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Native Slayer Propel, I stand on the wife's just fine in lakes and the bay, does great off shore. You want to drive down and take it for a test spin let me know.
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Before any recommendations Fishin8er, let me ask here..... what kayaks have you tried on the water ? If you are doing all of your research on-line that's fine and good to find what might be a best fit in your mind. But the only way to know for sure is to get on the water and demo as many boats as you feel necessary until you find the boat that fits you. Many dealers will allow and some even encourage a demo ride before purchase. So go get wet. Your boat is out there........you have to find what works for you.
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I would, and will always recommend a hobie. Hands free fishing is a must IMO. That being said i recommend a outback or revo depending on your size, and experience. I started with a pro angler 14 think i would need it ( I'm 6'4 275), but soon realized the kayak was just way too big, and more a pain than it was worth. I sold that to a buddy, and demoed a revo 13 and outback. I ended up falling in love with the Revo, and bought it out of the shop. The revo can handle big guys with ease!
Also a side note i live 20 minutes out of La Push, and launch out of there 2-3 times per week. I make a trip up to hobuck every now and then, but the extra drive isnt worth it for me when we are pulling 40-50 fish out of La Push on a daily basis. When your geared up and ready to go feel free to message me, and you can join us sometime
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I own a Hobie and I like it just fine. I own a Trident and I like it just as much. I wouldn't part with either of them.
For a first kayak, I agree with what Mark said: don't rely on recommendations, but instead test a bunch of them until you find the one that fits.
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With Hobie, you also have the outrigger bananas that you can add to a Revo for your standing up fishing needs.
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With Hobie, you also have the outrigger bananas that you can add to a Revo for your standing up fishing needs.
The blow up bananas look stupid but they work as advertised. My Revo 16 is a little too narrow for good stand up fishing (stable enough with amas, but nowhere to stand), but an Outback can be stood in with calm water and good balance. Also accepts the blow up amas as far as I know. Shorter boats (Outback, Revo 11) turn on a dime compared to my battleship. That doesn't affect me much in salt but it would be a negative for bass fishing.
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Sounds like you're looking for an AI or Revo with inflatable amas. I use 2 boats, a Revo 13 and a G2 raptor to cover all the situations you list, and I'm really happy with them. For all that in one kayak though I think it's the AI. I've never tried to stand up on one but it looks pretty stable. The G2 with a standup bar is my bass boat, and it's also a good skinny water and steelhead/salmon river boat. Revo for large lakes and ocean because it's a full knot faster than the G2.
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Man, you all are great. That you for the advice and the wisdom. Mark is completely correct as I am greener than green when it comes to kayaks. I have spent a lot of time on the water in 12 foot aluminum boats and canoes but no time in kayaks. I am the type that will study something I'm into to get a good foundation and then jump in with two feet and never look back so I want to purchase a kayak that I will love right out the gate which will make it that much more enjoyable. Mojo, thank you much for the offer, it sounds like the slayer is a great yak. Thank you for the offer Jake, I can promise you I will be taking you up on that, you cant imagine how jealous I am that you are so close to la push and are fishing it so often, I love that area. My goal is to be ready to be on the water in spring. One reason for the delay is because I am not the strongest swimmer, at all. I can float on my back and swim to save my life, but I cant tread water in place without a pfd. So I have joined a community pool and am starting swimming lessons now to prepare. I know it is essential to practice re-entry in your kayak but how important is it to be a strong swimmer with a pfd on? It has never come up in all my life fishing because I've never even worried about going overboard. Do you all flip very often and are you all good swimmers? Sorry this is off topic, should I start a separate thread for a question like this? I have so many questions for you all I hope they don't seem too dumb.
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I'm going to share the newb experience, this is my third season and much of it is still new learnings to me. The advice from the elders will vary, but this is where I am.
1. You cannot get a "good foundation" through study. The best you can get is a basic orientation that allows you to ask better questions and process some of the answers.
2. Don't be afraid to make a mistake purchase on your first boat. Consider the purchase price "tuition".
3. I was about to say that I've never ended up in the water except on purpose for practicing self-recovery. But last week I rolled a new-to-me-and-much-narrower-boat and ended up fully immersed. In 3' of water. While boarding. Because my own boat is so stable that I forgot to pay attention with the new one and didn't get away with putting my center of gravity over so far.
4. Always approach this assuming you will end up in the water. Don't fear it or be obsessed with fighting it. Embrace it. The alternative mindset leads to panic that leads to dead.
5. "Strong swimmer" ? I dunno what that means. Navy Seal strong ? No. Lifeguard strong ? No. Strong enough to stay afloat for a few hours without help ? Yep. Strong enough to swim to your boat in not-unreasonable current ? Yep. Strong enough to swim your boat to shore if you need to ? Yep. Strong enough to swim to shore without your boat if you need to ? Yep.
6. Standing while fishing. Yeah, whatever. I fish for bass pretty often and catch...well maybe not my share. Let's just say I catch enough to keep my interest. I have stood in my kayak, just to prove I could. I've never felt it was necessary for bass or any other type of fishing. YMMV. But here's the thing: you've not even been in a kayak yet, much less fished from one, much less fished for bass from one. Get some time with your butt in a boat before you decide you absolutely need something that to me, at least, is a very narrow specialty requirement.
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I'm going to share the newb experience, this is my third season and much of it is still new learnings to me. The advice from the elders will vary, but this is where I am.
1. You cannot get a "good foundation" through study. The best you can get is a basic orientation that allows you to ask better questions and process some of the answers.
2. Don't be afraid to make a mistake purchase on your first boat. Consider the purchase price "tuition".
3. I was about to say that I've never ended up in the water except on purpose for practicing self-recovery. But last week I rolled a new-to-me-and-much-narrower-boat and ended up fully immersed. In 3' of water. While boarding. Because my own boat is so stable that I forgot to pay attention with the new one and didn't get away with putting my center of gravity over so far.
4. Always approach this assuming you will end up in the water. Don't fear it or be obsessed with fighting it. Embrace it. The alternative mindset leads to panic that leads to dead.
5. "Strong swimmer" ? I dunno what that means. Navy Seal strong ? No. Lifeguard strong ? No. Strong enough to stay afloat for a few hours without help ? Yep. Strong enough to swim to your boat in not-unreasonable current ? Yep. Strong enough to swim your boat to shore if you need to ? Yep. Strong enough to swim to shore without your boat if you need to ? Yep.
6. Standing while fishing. Yeah, whatever. I fish for bass pretty often and catch...well maybe not my share. Let's just say I catch enough to keep my interest. I have stood in my kayak, just to prove I could. I've never felt it was necessary for bass or any other type of fishing. YMMV. But here's the thing: you've not even been in a kayak yet, much less fished from one, much less fished for bass from one. Get some time with your butt in a boat before you decide you absolutely need something that to me, at least, is a very narrow specialty requirement.
Pinstripper nailed it with his answers.
What i want to add is what is more important than being a strong swimmer is knowing your limits, and research your forecast! I'm not the best swimmer in the world, and guess what? I don't need to be. In my many trips to the salt I have never ended up in the water. I research the water conditions (tides, swells, wind, current) so I know what to expect. I don't push my limits, and if I arrive and its not what i expected I turn around.
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I like what Pinstriper said about thinking of the first kayak as the price of admission to the sport. If we all got the right kayak the first time, there wouldn't be so many of us with more than a single kayak, since we can only use them one at a time. :D
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I like what Pinstriper said about thinking of the first kayak as the price of admission to the sport. If we all got the right kayak the first time, there wouldn't be so many of us with more than a single kayak since we can only use them one at a time.
It's a bit like shooting sports. We all remember our first gun, it's limitations and how much fun it is to shoot. You might sell it, it might sit in a corner of your safe, you might have passed it down to a child or grandchild, but it was your introduction to the sport. You own several now, because there is no one gun that is right for every job. You have your favorites, and you take care of them.
It's kind of like that. I have 4 kayaks. I regularly use 2 of them, semi regularly use one of them, and the fourth is the loaner for friends without kayaks.
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What i want to add is what is more important than being a strong swimmer is knowing your limits, and research your forecast! I'm not the best swimmer in the world, and guess what? I don't need to be. In my many trips to the salt I have never ended up in the water. I research the water conditions (tides, swells, wind, current) so I know what to expect. I don't push my limits, and if I arrive and its not what i expected I turn around.
This is a fallacy. You're absolutely fine until you're not and then you'd better be able to tread water. There are a lot of variables working to take you out of your kayak in the ocean and even the best forecast can go to hell without notice.
-Mark-
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Q: How long do I need to be able to TREAD water ?
A: However long you want to stay alive until rescued.
Fixed!
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I don't understand the fallacy of Jake's post at all? Seems like he laid out a nice sequence of methods of reducing risks and I wouldn't hesitate to offer the ideas to a new kayaker.
The "fallacy" quote fails to include the very well laid out criteria including the value of being able to swim to certain levels. I agree that planning is more important than being the best swimmer in the world as even the best swimmer can drown if they place themselves in danger from predictable or foreseeable environment challenges. I think everyone knows (or likely will) that a spin cycle can occur even in flat water with the wrong move.
It feels like lately there are more challenging rebuttal posts that don't promote the spirit of sharing information. Not wishing to start a argument or hijack a thread, which is a good one, but if you have to be the best swimmer in the world to venture out, you've violated the partner rule as well, so no one fishes from a kayak? I'd take the odds of a moderate swimmer who's taken proper precautions surviving over a good swimmer ignoring planning and preparation. As in many sports, there are few absolutes, only boundaries. The further you push the boundaries the greater the risk.
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I assumed Mark was pressed for time and his post was simply terse.
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Mark is very knowledgable and has great advice to offer. I dont agree with the fallacy statement, but thats my opinion. I wanted to give my advice on the importance of learning the weather forcast and how tides work. Being a great swimmer would deffinetly help if things go bad, but how good do you really need to be? Its not hard to stay a float for hours when wearing a pdf.
A rogue wave launched 3 guys out of there boat last year right in front hobuck. No one was wearing a pdf and they had to cling to fishing debry while waiting over an hours for the coast guard to arrive. Would being able to swim like micheal phelps help? Yes of course, but how realistic is that? All we can do is be aware. Always wear your pdf, have a gps, do not go alone, have a radio, and yes improve your swimming skills, and most importantly as i stated before. Research! Research! Research! One of my first biggest mistakes was not learning how to predict currents. I went out fishing and picked up my limits after a few hours. On my way back i wasnt making any ground, and the current was just too strong for me to peddle through. I beached my kayak 4 miles away from launch and wheeled thst bad boy for over 3 hours. I studied for weeks before i was brave enough for another attempt. Now i only go when the weather is right, and i always come prepared.
Tight lines all
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Native Slayer Propel, I stand on the wife's just fine in lakes and the bay, does great off shore. You want to drive down and take it for a test spin let me know.
+1 on the Native Slayer Propels. I've got 2 of them and wouldn't trade em for anything...except maybe the new Native Titan Propel.
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What i want to add is what is more important than being a strong swimmer is knowing your limits, and research your forecast! I'm not the best swimmer in the world, and guess what? I don't need to be. In my many trips to the salt I have never ended up in the water. I research the water conditions (tides, swells, wind, current) so I know what to expect. I don't push my limits, and if I arrive and its not what i expected I turn around.
This is a fallacy. You're absolutely fine until you're not and then you'd better be able to tread water. There are a lot of variables working to take you out of your kayak in the ocean and even the best forecast can go to hell without notice.
-Mark-
There is some truth to this. The one time I flipped my boat and took a swim was because of a very large boat wake got stacked against the direction of the tide to my rear and it picked up the back of the boat and torqued it. Tossed me clear out of the boat on a 'calm' day. Treading water and preparing for what you don't expect. I would suggest doing what you're doing now. Ask a lot of questions, search the forums, and try and get out on the water with some experienced people. Nothing like learning from doing.
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Native Slayer Propel, I stand on the wife's just fine in lakes and the bay, does great off shore. You want to drive down and take it for a test spin let me know.
I was sure I had replied to this, but I must have forgotten to hit the post button...
Anyway, Hi Fishin8r. You do not have to drive all the way down to Mojo's place to take a spin in a Propel. Come down the road to Gig Harbor Watersports (formerly the boating part of Gig Harbor Fly Shop and still same owner), talk to Blake Merwin and his crew, and get yourself a test drive in both Hobie and Native, he sells both lines. I tried out both and ended up with a Native Propel 13 which I love. Some folks love a Hobie and hate a Native, some it's the other way around, others like both systems. For *me*, the rotary bicycle-style motion is much easier on the knees than the Hobie push-pull. Other folks have exactly the opposite reaction. You really need to get in both and try 'em out.
As far as outings, I don't do surf launches but I've taken mine out all over in the Sound with no worry about it.
Jim
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What i want to add is what is more important than being a strong swimmer is knowing your limits, and research your forecast! I'm not the best swimmer in the world, and guess what? I don't need to be. In my many trips to the salt I have never ended up in the water. I research the water conditions (tides, swells, wind, current) so I know what to expect. I don't push my limits, and if I arrive and its not what i expected I turn around.
This is a fallacy. You're absolutely fine until you're not and then you'd better be able to tread water. There are a lot of variables working to take you out of your kayak in the ocean and even the best forecast can go to hell without notice.
-Mark-
Accurate, bold, and concise. Strong work Spot.
Rivers and the Pacific do not care how well you planned or what gear you bought.
If you play this game, you will swim and you will swim for your life.
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With Hobie, you also have the outrigger bananas that you can add to a Revo for your standing up fishing needs.
So you're the bananas on a boat guy... should have guessed. :)