NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Let's Talk Kayak Fishing => Topic started by: girlzluvfishin on May 12, 2009, 04:08:28 PM
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Here is a "newbie" question:
What am I looking for in the weather pattern or forecast that lets me know it may be a good day on the water?
Is it a low pressure system off the coast? swell predictions?
Living inland its hard to know these things and being fairly new to the PNW.... ???
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There are lots of good ocean forecasting tools available on the internet.
NOAA
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/data/Forecasts/FZUS56.KSEW.html
Magic Seaweed
http://magicseaweed.com/Washington-Surf-Forecast/14/
Wetsand
http://swellwatch.wetsand.com/#place=48.28319289548349_-124.343262_6_1418_height_none_Sat_-1
The trick is in understanding how different areas handle different swell and wind directions.
In general though, you're looking for small waves, long periods, small seas and light winds. And, always keep an eye on the forecast for 12hrs beyond when you plan on being out. Sometimes swells or storms will arrive early.
If you can, find someone with experience to help you figure it out on the water.
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i use www.sailflow.com for wind forecasts
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Is it possible for someone with experience (like...Spot, yakintup, PolePole, Zee, BSteaves, Pelagic Paddler, etc...) to do a How-To on how and what to read using various scenarios?
This is good info to learn and understand in real time, but with any How-To written for the interenet audience, it can be a starting point for newbies to start to get an understanding of what various data tells them (me).
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i agree with Insayn on the How to .....or maybe spot or someone can give some on hand lessons somewhere one weekend.
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Yes because I read all the data but don't really know what it means! So its like jiberish! well better weather is coming and I really really want to get out and get some bottom fish for tacos!!!! :P
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Heres how I decide to “GO” or not..
Keep in mind that these are just forecasts, they can be much better and they can be much worse. With experience, and access to several sources, you will get better and better at finding those “doable” days. Keep in mind if you only fish when the forecast is “absolutely perfect” you won’t fish much. Sometimes you just need make an educated guess and “roll the dice”, heading to the coast to decide if its “doable” when you get there.
TONIGHT...W WIND 5 TO 10 KT...BACKING TO S AFTER MIDNIGHT.
WIND WAVES 1 FOOT. W SWELL 8 FT AT 9 SECONDS.
.WED...SE WIND 5 TO 15 KT...BECOMING S 20 TO 25 KT WITH GUSTS TO
30 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 2 FT...BUILDING TO 5 FT IN THE
AFTERNOON. NW SWELL 5 FT AT 9 SECONDS. CHANCE OF RAIN.
.WED NIGHT...S WIND 25 TO 30 KT...BECOMING SW 20 KT AFTER
MIDNIGHT. W SWELL 11 FT AT 8 SECONDS. RAIN.
.THU...SW WIND 15 TO 20 KT...BECOMING W 10 TO 15 KT IN THE
AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 4 FT...SUBSIDING TO 2 FT IN THE
AFTERNOON. W SWELL 10 FT. SHOWERS LIKELY.
.THU NIGHT...NW WIND 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FOOT. W SWELL
7 FT. SLIGHT CHANCE OF SHOWERS IN THE EVENING.
.FRI...N WIND 5 TO 10 KT. WIND WAVES 1 FOOT. W SWELL 6 FT.
.FRI NIGHT...NW WIND 10 TO 15 KT...VEERING TO N AFTER MIDNIGHT.
WIND WAVES 2 FT. W SWELL 5 FT.
.SAT...N WIND 10 TO 15 KT WITH GUSTS TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT.
W SWELL 5 FT.
.SUN...NW WIND 10 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 2 FT. W SWELL 5 FT.
When you look at a NOAA forecast you have several things to use to make your decision.
Wind/Windwaves: wind equals “wind waves” or “chop” which are day spoilers for us yakers. I look at the previous days wind and the next few days wind forecast to get a general trend of the wind. For me any forecast that indicates winds in the 15-20 KT range or more is a no go for all but the nearest/shortest trips. Forecasts like:
WED...SE WIND 5 TO 15 KT...BECOMING S 20 TO 25 KT WITH GUSTS TO
30 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 2 FT...BUILDING TO 5 FT
should be a red flag. The shorthand of this forecast is; slight breeze in the AM when you launch, turning to fairly windy by late morning, to damn windy by early afternoon. In general, I have found that on most days (oregon coast summer) if NOAA says 5-10kt you are good till early afternoon with little to no wind and if it indicates 10-15kt you are usually good till about 11 or so am before it starts to blow. If its blowing more than a light breeze when you launch it most likely won’t get any better.
Another factor to consider is wind direction. In the summer the swell pattern is predominately out of the North and most often the wind follows the direction of the swells, which is fine. A situation to keep an eye on is when the swell and the wind are coming from opposite directions. When a south wind hits north swells it tends to stand the waves up intensifying the sea state. In short be wary of the south wind..
This forecast screams ugly conditions...
AFTERNOON. NW SWELL 5 FT AT 9 SECONDS. CHANCE OF RAIN.
.WED NIGHT...S WIND 25 TO 30 KT...BECOMING SW 20 KT AFTER
MIDNIGHT. W SWELL 11 FT AT 8 SECONDS. RAIN.
Swell and Period:
Obviously we are all looking for small swells, however, just as important as swell size is the period length/wavelength. Swell size is the “wave height” from trough to crest. The wavelength is the distance between the crests, whereas the waves period measures the size of the wave in time. A wave period can be measured by picking a stationary point and counting the seconds it takes for two consecutive crests or troughs to pass.
The following website is the best I have seen to see to show the correlation of how these factors (wave height/wavelength/period) affect the sea state.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/volvooceanrace/interactives/waves/index.html
General Rules:
The smaller the swell the better (duh!)
The larger or longer (denoted in time in seconds) the period/wavelength the better. This stretches the waves crests father apart and flattens out the sea state.
A good rule of thumb is the period should be at least twice the swell height. So if the forecast reads 4 ft swells at 10 seconds (wave crests far apart) with 1-2ft wind waves you would be looking at a relatively decent forecast (depending on your experience). But if the forecast was 4ft swell at 4 seconds (wave crests close together) you probably would want to stay on the beach no matter who you were.
Beware small (one day) windows of good conditions, sandwiched between bad conditions. These generally occur between changes in weather patterns and are often misleading or very short lived, often conditions can change very quickly as a front moves in etc.
The best teacher is experience. Go with others who have more than you, ask questions, “why is today a good surf day?”. Study and create a library of “bookmarked” sources to draw info from, the more the better. Check out the forecasts for yourself in person, if you are far from the coast the Pacific City surf cam can be a great tool for this. Look at the forecasts, then check the cam. Its not perfect, but it can give you an idea of what’s “good” and what’s “bad “. Soon you will have an idea of what specific conditions look like in real time. In the future, when you see those conditions/pattern on the forecast, you know its time to take a day off and catch some fish.
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:hello2: Great info!
Here's a good site for winds:
http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=122
There's a great 7 day outlook on that site and is my main source for wind forecasts. Here's P.C. forecast as an example:
http://www.iwindsurf.com/windandwhere.iws?regionID=122&siteID=266&Isection=Forecast+Graphs
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I think PP's rough tutorial is one of the best I've seen yet. Can it be posted in the 'how-to' section of this site for future reference? Great read none-the-less!
-SR
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I think PP's rough tutorial is one of the best I've seen yet. Can it be posted in the 'how-to' section of this site for future reference? Great read none-the-less!
-SR
I'd agree! This piece is the essential Ocean Kayak Fishing 101.
Well done Pelagic!
OK, who's going to submit Ocean Kayak Fishing 201? ;D
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please consider this a "working document" feel free to suggest additions or clarifications that could help make this information more accessable and understandable to those new to the salt. For me the more I understand about the ocean/waves/tides/etc. the more comfortable I feel when I am out there
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I use all the above resources for figuring the "good" days...mostly for kayak surfing rather than fishing. also- there are web cams at PC etc., that give you a good idea of the reality of the forecast...it beats driving to the coast to see how it really looks!
You can usually find some protected area somewhere depending on which direction wind and swell are coming. I was at Indian beach last week with no surf while my friends were at Oceanside at the same moment with 3-6ft surf.
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I totally feel like I should pay for that......I get it!!!
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You can usually find some protected area somewhere depending on which direction wind and swell are coming. I was at Indian beach last week with no surf while my friends were at Oceanside at the same moment with 3-6ft surf.
Ummm, Dude, you should have been able to predict that by looking at the predominant swell direction.... I'm just sayin....
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Where is Indian Beach???
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Where is Indian Beach???
It's a secret
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I promise not to tell ;)
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watch the goonies!! HAHA!
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watch the goonies!! HAHA!
This isn't just a hint, this is the location.
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sorry :embarassed:
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sorry :embarassed:
No worries Bud! I was just teasing Jay. ;D
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PP
Thank you that was very educational. worth reading a few times and using.
SG
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watch the goonies!! HAHA!
If you do watch the Goonies, don't get too confused, because some of the filming was also done near Jenner, CA (my old fishing grounds on the Sonoma Coast, NorCal).
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anyone fish indian beach? what for? All I ever see there are surfers...
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You can usually find some protected area somewhere depending on which direction wind and swell are coming. I was at Indian beach last week with no surf while my friends were at Oceanside at the same moment with 3-6ft surf.
Ummm, Dude, you should have been able to predict that by looking at the predominant swell direction.... I'm just sayin....
dude I know, and I did. Had a friend driving the car that would not believe me and was sold on indian beach....so we looked at indian, & ended up driving down the coast "looking" for swell and waisting our play time...ended up paddling out of manzanita and touring around the caves just north of there.
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Where is Indian Beach???
It's up by Ecola.
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It's not fished much but there are a lot of seastacks around there.
One thing to keep in mind at Indians is that it tends to focus swell so you can get your @$$ handed to you on the way in if you choose your day/approach wrong.
And, kayak surfers are generally harassed by the board surfers because they don't have much control and don't seem to realize the danger they often put the surfers in. In younger days we would make a game out of trying to do floaters or olies over yakers. ;D
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anyone fish indian beach? what for? All I ever see there are surfers...
I have only surfed there...lots of surfers there, probably better spots for fishing.
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OK, so cross out Indian Beach for the kayak for sure then. No ollies over my head...
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It's not fished much but there are a lot of seastacks around there.
One thing to keep in mind at Indians is that it tends to focus swell so you can get your @$$ handed to you on the way in if you choose your day/approach wrong.
And, kayak surfers are generally harassed by the board surfers because they don't have much control and don't seem to realize the danger they often put the surfers in. In younger days we would make a game out of trying to do floaters or olies over yakers. ;D
Aww dude...that's just kids in whitewater boats log rollin.....but typically, I would agree with you....just not me and my crew 8) I think if you are surfing boards or boats, and you understand surfer etiquette and are respectful, it's no biggie. Usually I/we take a different approach and return path than the board surfers do.
I wouldn't jump into the line up on your first try surfing though. Learn the rules of the road before you jump into a popular board spot.
Just had to post this pic of my buddy Dave at Oceanside pulling a floater........back to yak fishing.
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Before this thread turns into a surfing thread, I'd like to say that Pelagic Paddler did a great job on breaking each element down. Even I am beginning to understand it better now. Thanks!
Where'd the Wiki go? This would be a great place to archive this kind of info and build on it.
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watch the goonies!! HAHA!
If you do watch the Goonies, don't get too confused, because some of the filming was also done near Jenner, CA (my old fishing grounds on the Sonoma Coast, NorCal).
Big time Goonies fan here! Visited all the local spots, have the tee shirt ::). If I'm not mistaken only the last scene(s) were filmed in NorCal
http://www.thegoonies.org/viewersTrips.htm
http://www.thegoonies.org/Locations.htm
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Sorry, I get distracted easily.
The current goal is to drop crab traps on the way out, & have the hand line rigged for bottom fishing in between surf sessions & pick up the traps on the way in....Still trying to work that out :-\
I'm a multi-tasking kayaker.
But the ocean condition info was excellent. Nice one.
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Since work was soooo busy today ::) I found a great resource for wave info.
http://magicseaweed.com/news.php?categoryId=7
This covers a lot of ground. Everything from general wave terminology, wave generation and forecasting, to stuff like wave refraction and how pressure systems work.
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I am a big fan of magic seaweed. between that site, NOAA, and the surf web cams, you are pretty much covered.
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Pleaze make this thread a sticky so it doesn't get lost, and possibly weed out the chit chat, so it stays ocean weather related as a working document.
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Pleaze make this thread a sticky so it doesn't get lost
Done!
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Looks like later this week will be hard core salty dogs only... :o
http://www.wavewatch.com/Surf-Forecast-Region.php?RegionID=2#part2 (http://www.wavewatch.com/Surf-Forecast-Region.php?RegionID=2#part2)
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Looks like later this week will be hard core salty dogs only...
http://www.wavewatch.com/Surf-Forecast-Region.php?RegionID=2#part2
Thats a great graphical website that even I can understand. Thanks! Blue good, red bad. Reminds me of the Cold War. "Wolverines!"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-712036695027727306 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-712036695027727306)
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Missed this posting the first go around...
PP thanks so much, this helps out a lot!
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Thats a great graphical website that even I can understand. Thanks! Blue good, red bad. Reminds me of the Cold War. "Wolverines!"
I thought this was just going to be a clip. It's the whole Red Dawn movie!
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>:D
Heres some web cams for Westport, WA on the Westport-Grayland chamber of commerce website:
http://westportgrayland-chamber.org/surfing_info.htm
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Latest buoy report from the WA coast off Westport: 22.5 feet at 16 seconds!!! I'm heading to the beach to watch the show!
Gonna be some decent beachcombing later! Dang Achilles tendon!!!!! :-\
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She sure is angry today!
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She sure is angry today!
Let's go fishin'
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It went from nice, easy 5 foot swells on Saturday, to this:
...HIGH SURF ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM PDT
WEDNESDAY FOR THE NORTH AND CENTRAL OREGON COAST AND THE SOUTH
WASHINGTON COAST...
A HIGH SURF ADVISORY REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 5 AM PDT WEDNESDAY.
THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN PORTLAND HAS ISSUED A HIGH SURF
ADVISORY...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM MIDNIGHT TONIGHT TO 5 AM PDT
WEDNESDAY.
LARGE SWELL GENERATED BY A SERIES OF STRONG STORMS IN THE GULF OF
ALASKA WILL CONTINUE TO AFFECT THE WEST COAST THROUGH THE WEEK.
INCOMING SWELL OF 20 TO 25 FEET WILL POUND THE COASTLINE
THROUGH LATE TUESDAY NIGHT. HIGHEST SWELL CAN BE EXPECTED TODAY
AND TONIGHT. THE INCOMING SWELL WILL SUBSIDE TO BELOW 20 FEET BY
EARLY WEDNESDAY MORNING.
Gotta love it here!
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couple of things to add or clarify to weather/wave info:
Wind wave, chop (or as I like to call them sheep, when its really blowing with lots white frothy stuff rolling on top or the water). Is to always add the wind wave hight to the swell height. So if the swell is 8' with a wind wave of say 4' your basically in 12' of water swell.
Becoming a mini weather man is a good thing. The ocean conditions are very similar to weather patterns. Meaning one begins to see patterns in swell heights, excluding obvious storms fronts. Which helps calculate forecasts for calm conditions to come.
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Cape Kiwanda Surf Report and Forecast
Swell
24.5ft @ 14secs
Wind
31mph
At 4pm today...let's go night fishin'
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We're right behind you Jay... :laughing7:
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Cape Kiwanda Surf Report and Forecast
Swell
24.5ft @ 14secs
Wind
31mph
At 4pm today...let's go night fishin'
Don't forget your game clip so you look "cool" drowning out there. ;D
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Ecola State Park a little north of Sea Side.
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Alot of info, kinda a newbie in the oregon coast so thanks Pelagic! So Cal is much more forgiving on the weather side, and leaving from a harbor makes a big difference.
I do have a ? For some of you on the oregon coast. How is getting back to the beach? Does a kayak surf well?
I have surffed a paddle board, regular surf board and here in Idaho i am an avid wakesurfer when im not fishing. Im not worried about bustn the surf in my Hobie but can i surf it back?
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Alot of info, kinda a newbie in the oregon coast so thanks Pelagic!
Ron passed earlier this year, fortunately his knowledge lives on.
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Alot of info, kinda a newbie in the oregon coast so thanks Pelagic! So Cal is much more forgiving on the weather side, and leaving from a harbor makes a big difference.
I do have a ? For some of you on the oregon coast. How is getting back to the beach? Does a kayak surf well?
I have surffed a paddle board, regular surf board and here in Idaho i am an avid wakesurfer when im not fishing. Im not worried about bustn the surf in my Hobie but can i surf it back?
No, most fishing kayaks do not surf well. Some are better than others. Just stow or tie everything down and prepare to get wet and if you fall in don't get between your kayak and the beach. Usually you will surf a bit and end up sideways to the beach. If you don't brace into the breaking waves at that point you will get flipped.
If you can, go out without the fishing gear and practice a bit.
Brian