I'm a FOOL! Please help.

Fool
n.
1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.
2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion.

This forum has been set aside to talk all about safety, and I'm hoping that a few of you will be a buddy for just a few minutes and help me get a good clear perspective on exactly that subject.  Myself, I'm seeing the entire safety thing as a dichotomy of risk on the one side and reward (or a negative reward, i.e. the price) on the other.  There's no way around it, it's almost ALWAYS up to each individual to weigh those two sides for himself and find that balance that that person can live with.

Now, to increase our chances that people will have a look at this thread (I guess I'm mostly hoping new guys will take a glance), I'm gonna try to keep it fairly simple.  If you can't resist the compulsion to expand it way out, shoot, open a new thread if you would please.  And we all know that NObody can do anything about "stupid" people, so let's assume for this exercise that I'll use decent judgement and have some amount of common sense.  I'm only asking for some insight to fill out the "understanding" bit.  Okay, so here's what I'm hoping that you'll be considerate enough to give me on this thread:

Imagine that I'm a newby that just showed up on the NWKA site and I'm honestly, openly asking for advise from you old salts, or freshwater guys, whatever.  I've either just purchased a kayak or I will soon and I can't WAIT to get out on the water and do my thing!  That is, I'm seeing LOT's of reward out ahead of me.  I've got a paddle and my fishing gear and yes indeed, I've picked up some sort of PFD.  I said I was a FOOL, I didn't say that I was STUPID.  Besides, I think we can all agree that on this site there's probably not ONE person that will tell you that going out there without some sort of PFD is a reasonably risk free adventure.  If I'm wrong, then by all means let's kick that around... but probably not, so let's try to limit it to my newby question.


So here's my two part newby question:
1. What is it that you see as being THE NUMBER ONE threat to our lives when we go out there to fish?  This is the NWKA site and so I'm talking here about US, fishing HERE, in the NW.
2. What kind of price would you advise me to pay to reduce that threat?


1. I promise my wife on almost all of my trips: "Don't you worry baby, this guy is gonna get himself back here to you alive and well."  So staying alive is my biggest thing out there.  Catching fish is #2, or even #3.  Go ahead and give me your joke answers if you can't help yourself, but I want the real answer too if your going to weigh in. And please help me out just a little here and try to limit yourself to just ONE answer (except of course, in response to somebody else's answer), your best answer.  And how big a risk do you see it?  Statistics are always cool, but pure opinions sure count too... I'm hoping to kick off a brainstorm thing here and I don't mind WHERE you are getting your ideas, so long as you're serious (eventually) and really mean it.

2. What can I do to mitigate the risk, and what kind of price will that cost me.. what does it take?  I didn't mean to rule out PFD's as an answer above.  Maybe you'd reccomend some particular EXCELLENT PFD.  Hey, let's open it up a little bit... go ahead and give me two, three, or even four of your best answers.  And I need some insight as to your perception of the cost as in the dollar price, as in how much hassel is it, is it way uncomfortable but worth it, is it a lot of effort or will it cost a lot of time somehow?  If I'm Mr. Newby, and I'm seeing the negative reward as being too high compared to the amount of risk reduction, then of course I'll toss that idea right out.

Okay, so lay it on me!  And remember that a lot of REAL people read this stuff and then go out on our waters, so keep it real if you would please.

Thanks,

Fishin-T

i consider my absolute biggest threat to my safety on the water to be power boaters and larger vessels. there are far too many  heedless and careless operators out there. sometimes they are even severely intoxicated, either on alcohol or some form of drugs.  i truly believe that one day i may get run over by one of these people.

last summer, yarjammer and i did a lake washington bass trip and both of us witnessed lots of bad boat handling. in one case there was a moron with an offshore cigarette boat blowing thru the no wake zone at at least 50 mph.

while i might offhandedly make remarks about the yellow color of my pfd and my T15, i am glad they are bright, somewhat high visibility colors. it's also why i was such a big proponent of us having a safety flag when that topic came up some time back. the more visibility i have to others while on the water the better off i feel i will be.

i learned the following lesson years ago from my depression era parents, and used it while in the service and apply it today to my yak fishing too; buy the best you can afford and when you go to buy it, make it hurt just a bit.. by that, i mean, buy quality safety gear and dont be stingy on price. a 25.00 flag or a 140.00 pfd is a very small price to pay to protect my life.

IMO, there are too many scenarios that can be "a threat".  So my answer ... don't be a FOOL ... use good judgment and don't act unwisely!!!  This means educating yourself to be prepared for any and all possible scenarios.  Of course that begs the question, what are all those possible scenarios?  

-Allen

Polepole,

In this exercise, I'm not trying to pinpoint the winner out of a collection of possible accidents that might happen.  What I'm hoping to do is to go right to the heart of the ONE thing (or with several individuals answers, several big things) that you heavily experienced guys see as being potential trouble and perhaps the most truely likely situation that could get an angler to the point where now he (or she) is coming back dead from that trip.  In other words, I'm looking to YOU guys, here, for that initial portion of that education that you're referring to.

So of course, the other half of the excercise is for you and others to offer us some effective ideas that we might should employ to reduce or minimize that particular risk.  When I say "effective", I'm looking for ideas that can be seen to have enough "bang for the buck", or effort, or what have you, that they might be likely that people will actually pick them up and use them.  I've said "reduce" because I think we can all admit that we all live with some amount of risk no matter what we do in life.  It's ALWAYS a question as to whether you see it as worth the reward for you or not.

Fishin-T

Drowning has got to be the number one threat, INMHO, whether from being hypothermic or being unconscious for one reason or another, like getting run over by a reckless power boater, or bonking your head on someting or even a medical condition(we are getting older). So, i say where a PFD the first time you go out and where it everytime you go out.

I've heard people say they only where a PFD when there on the ocean..huh?! If your unconscious and face down you can drown in mere inches of water.

So get a PFD,get one that fits and is comfortable, so you'll wear it.

The most bang for the buck is a PFD, hands down..Dressing for the conditions is very important also, but if you drown from being uncunscious in the first minutes of being in the water, hyperthermia would be the least of your worries.

Two things will always kill you.  

1. Lack of air...  Wear a quality, properly sized Life Jacket..  It floats.. you don't

2.  Drastic drop in body temperature do to cold water immersion...  Wear appropriate immersion protection. My measure of appropriate is: can I  still function in the water until rescue (self or otherwise) if unable to re-board my yak, this of course, varies greatly depending on the temp of the water where you are fishing.

Agree.  Plus a couple of easy items that can save your life.  A whistle (required anyway) for thoughtless boaters and a knife for anchor, wind, current and log combinations that can get dangerous quickly.  And one other lesson I've learned the hard way that doesn't cost a thing - check the weather often.  It can change quickly. 

The greatest threat to my life on the water is myself.  I am the only thing I ultimately have control of and as such I don't pretend to have control over anything else.  A lack of situational awareness is a death sentence. 

The price to pay for safety... this reminds me of a debate often we have in my motorcycling groups.  It is as pure as it is simple; if you can't trust it, won't use it, don't know how to use it, or it doesn't work in the first place then it is worthless.  The converse is absolutely true as well.  Safety equipment is a cheap insurance policy against the ultimate intagible, your life.  I would say the cost of safety would break down like this:

Coast Guard / Washington State required items: http://www.boat-ed.com/wa/handbook/chcklst.htm
*PFD ($5 to $400)
*Whistle/Air horn/Bell ($2-$25)
*Navigation Light/Lantern/Flashlight ($1-$200)

Not Required, but gotta have:
*A plan (FREE!)
*Hydration source (bottled water, thermos, whatever...)
*Sunscreen/Lip Balm
*Appropriate clothing for conditions
*Paddle leash (~$15)

The good ideas:
*Knife ($15-$200)
*Safety Flag ($5-$30)
*Compass/GPS ($12-$500)
*Cell phone or VHF ($0-$250)
*Safety strobe ($25-$50)

Devise your plan and determine what equipment YOU need to reasonably save YOUR own tail and make darn sure YOU have them with you on the water.  I would advise a newb to plan to spend at least $50 to $100 on safety related gear and then whatever they can afford for clothing/apparel (there are plenty of outlets to get new or used apparel for the cold(er) water or weather). Personally, I bought what I could afford at the time and have been slowly upgrading or increasing my options as time moves on to suit my preferences.

Two things will always kill you.  

1. Lack of air...  Wear a quality, properly sized Life Jacket..  It floats.. you don't

2.  Drastic drop in body temperature do to cold water immersion...  Wear appropriate immersion protection. My measure of appropriate is: can I  still function in the water until rescue (self or otherwise) if unable to re-board my yak, this of course, varies greatly depending on the temp of the water where you are fishing.

From a medical perspective, life threats from cold water immersion are as follows:

- 1 minute to gain control of your breathing. This means relax and don't panic when dumped
- 10 minutes until you begin to lose purposeful movement
- 1 hour until you lose all purposeful movement

A proper pfd may give you the ability to keep your head out of the water, but in the NW waters (most of the year), you need to get out of the water relatively quickly to survive a cold water immersion.

I really do appreciate this thread. 

I have been slowly building up my safety gear before I hit the salt.  I owe myself at least this much, right?   I plan to test all of my submersion gear really good before I make my first run through the surf on my yak, by playing in the surf on foot first.  I want to see if and where water or chill could become an issue.  Then fix this. 

Now, my biggest concern of the unknown at this point is how my stomach will be in the salt.  I have been out in the ocean on several occasions with and without swells.  I've been pretty green faced on a few of those occasions, and I just hope I can reduce this effect either by pharmaceuticals or just over time itself.

-CC 

 

natural conditions are my biggest concern...whether it is wind, rain, current, swollen river or rogue waves etc..
 These I have no control over, and I pay extra attention to all of them when planning to go out. Even if just down the road to the neighborhood beach.
 I know my paddle-ability, and stay within reason.

oh yes, and FishinT....you lost all foolishness the moment you asked an intelligent question.

Now, my biggest concern of the unknown at this point is how my stomach will be in the salt.  I have been out in the ocean on several occasions with and without swells.  I've been pretty green faced on a few of those occasions, and I just hope I can reduce this effect either by pharmaceuticals or just over time itself.

-CC 

I got pretty green when i first started going out on the ocean and i took Dramamine everytime i went out. I thought i was gonna have to use it forever because the seasickness would hit me pretty fast(never chummed though) but after many trips i ran out one day and didn't take it, no seasickness. I figured it was a fluke or something so i didn't take it the next time i went and no seasickness again. I haven't taken it since and only felt green one time, but i was kinda feeling under the weather to begin with. But if you need the big D just take it, make sure you take it 45 minutes to an hour before you go out or it really doesn't have time to get in your system.

1. Number one threat I see to our lives is lack of awareness. Now, that one thing has limitless variations, the more aware you are of what's going on around you, and the better your knowledge and preparation to deal with what you're experiencing, the safer you're going to be.

2. the price - to put it bluntly, what is your life and those you fish & paddle with worth to you? the answer varies so much depending on where you are and what you're doing. The skills needed for casual lake fishing in the summer are different than the skills for winter river fishing, or open ocean paddling. In any case, I argue the price is investment of time more than dollars. Four thing we can all do to make our time on the water safer & more enjoyable:

-Know how to paddle/pedal your boat safely and in control. Proper technique will not only get you where want to go faster and more efficiently, it also saves your energy, letting you be more aware of what's going on around you and able to  respond to problems if they arise.

-Learn your equipment, maintain it so it lasts & is there where you need it, and be able to do basic repairs to keep it functioning. Also have backup gear in case something is lost or broken.

-Learn your safety basics. practice them often in controlled situations.

-Learn about conditions, both weather and water.

Well I recently moved to the northwest from the southeast (less than a year ago) so I am a new noob...so I can give you a pretty good perspective of how I approached things...I live to blocks from the sound so I knew that is where I would be going most so I tried to get prepared for that experience.

First and foremost as everyone else has said is a PFD...The thing about a PFD that I am sure some the guys on this forum will tell you...If you don't take the time and spend the minimal amount of money it requires to get a comfortable PFD you will find yourself not wearing one...I went to REI and luckily there was a guy there that kayaked the sound heavily...I had a pfd in my hand and he said no no no...That may fit you but it is gonna be way too small for you to move comfortably...He gave me a pfd 2 sizes larger...i was surprised at how much better it fit...this may sound stupid but i didn't know how a pfd should properly fit...i tried the first few smaller size on and thought they fit fine...i was wrong

Second as a few have said is the cold water issue...I took to this problem slowly because it is one of the more expensive issues...Lets face it the most complete protection from cold water immersion is a dry suit...at 400-1500 dollars you could easily spend lots of money right off the bat...on the other hand if the first thing you go out and get is a dry suit...you had better do some research because again if you spend 800 dollars on a drysuit that isn't comfortable then you just wasted your money...I started with a base layer and fleece and rain gear...i quickly found after a few unexpected dumps that it was not gonna be adequate unless i could self rescue within a few minutes...I then got a pair of waders and now thanks to Zee have a drytop (somebody remind me to bring cash this weekend lol)  

I suggest you go out and on the internet or at the library or whatever and read a couple first hand experiences of hypothermia...Doesn't matter if it was in cold water or cold weather...i think you will see what some of the immediate problems you will face and there severity...And in most cases if you read the first hand experiences that were severe you will see that they don't remember most of it because they were so far gone...they don't remember taking all there clothes off...
Oh and if you think you can just swim to shore...I have read quite a few stories of groups that end up in very cold water and a few decide they swim the short half a mile or the short mile or whatever the case may be...most of the people ended up dieing and the others did not make it to shore...You lose much more body heat swimming than you do when you just curl up in a ball and float

The next thing (again has alrdy been mentioned)  is knowing your paddling skills and being comfortable with a self rescue...I put this after a pfd and cold water immersion gear only because without those two things I believe that it will be very hard to learn your paddling skills without dieing...The guys on this forum preach and preach about self rescue...luckily with the sit on tops most of us use it is fairly easy...but it sure is a good thing i had practiced it before i dumped my kayak in very choppy water on alki point...in the gear i was in i would not have lasted very long and the 1/8 mile or so i was from shore and the choppy conditions would have probably made it very unlikely i would have made it to shore before losing all motor skills

there are many more things such as a vhf and things of the sort...In my opinion a vhf is a last line of defense...if you get into the habbit of just saying well if anything happens i will just call the coast guard you aren't gonna last very long...lets face it even in the best response times assuming they find you immediately you probably alrdy have severe hypothermia


having said all of this...yes it is expensive to buy safety gear from the beginning...but in the event that you need a particular piece of gear and you have it handy...you won't give a rats @@s about how much it costs