NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Don't Ask Me How I Know => Topic started by: AndyFishes on September 06, 2018, 09:33:22 AM
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The other day my mirage drive (older revo13 w/V2 drive) started clunking and not working properly. It seemed like one of the fins was skipping or slipping. The whole kayak would torque to one side. I could get it to "catch" again and it would kinda work if I took it easy on the pedals. I did a little research and replaced all the nylock nuts making sure the cables were pretty snug without over tightening. Took it out again yesterday and same thing right off the bat. I'm thinking it's an issue with the sprocket slipping or something along those lines. I fished with it yesterday regardless (caught some nice rockfish [released], a couple keeper greenling, and couple of smaller lings [released also]--first ling for me).
Anyway, I want to get back out asap since coho season is gonna be short (my opportunities at least). Am I asking for trouble if I disassemble this myself? How fussy are these to assemble and get working properly? Does anyone have any areas they think I should focus on?
Thanks much.
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Check your Idler pulley. It could either be cracked, or the pulley shaft has slipped out.
(http://macleanoutdoors.net.au/images/idler-cable_pulley.jpg)
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BTW, the V2 Mirage drive isn't made with any kind of special rocket science. If you have a basic understanding of mechanical stuff, you should be able to fully field strip it down to its underwear, find any worn or broken parts, replace said parts, and get it put back together without issue in short order.
The GT model is a bit more complex with the needle bearings, but works the same way.
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Thanks.
I just went out to the garage to look at the idler pulley (it seems fine). I was trying to replicate the problem out of the water with the fins between my knees and pushing the pedals. Popped a tooth off of one of the sprockets. I didn't realize the were plastic (probably old and fatigued). I think there are a couple of others missing up at the top where it's hard to see. I guess I'll be ordering some new sprockets. What other parts should I replace while I'm at it? I may pick up an idler pulley and those covers on either side of the sprocket are a little banged up...
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Thanks.
I just went out to the garage to look at the idler pulley (it seems fine). I was trying to replicate the problem out of the water with the fins between my knees and pushing the pedals. Popped a tooth off of one of the sprockets. I didn't realize the were plastic (probably old and fatigued). I think there are a couple of others missing up at the top where it's hard to see. I guess I'll be ordering some new sprockets. What other parts should I replace while I'm at it? I may pick up an idler pulley and those covers on either side of the sprocket are a little banged up...
May as well order up a full set of cables as well. Even if you don't install them this round, you'll have them as spares. Hobie seems to require $5 shipping on all of their orders, so I tend to just order everything once and spend that $5 once.
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Oh boy.
Yup 2 new sprockets are in order. Both are missing some teeth. This one is fubar. It only has 4 teeth left (all on one side).
A couple more questions (if you'd be kind enough):
1) Any tips on getting the masts out of the sprocket? A little heat on the mast? WD40? Don't want to trash those. Thinking maybe they were loc-tited at some point.
2) Where to buy? Looks like Austin Kayak has some of the parts but maybe not all. Better off buying direct from Hobie? Is that possible?
3) Shaft is a little worn--might replace while I have it apart. Cable ends have a bit of rust but not terrible, chains seem fine, Probably replace the idler pully as it looks kind of "tired" and is the same material as the sprockets.
4) Am I doing something wrong to break these teeth? I read that too long a stroke can cause the fins to hit the yak. I'm tallish and had the pedals set all the way out (position 7). Maybe I should back it off a step?
Thanks again. Bummer, I'd hoped to go out tomorrow. Might be rainy for a few days though. May be a blessing in my case!!!
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You could apply head to the masts, and let it soak down to the threads, but since you are already replacing those parts, a little melted plastic won't hurt.
WD40 is useless in this situation. It is not the best for penetrating oils available. If it's Lock-Tite, no oil is going to help. Acetone soaking the threads if the heat doesn't budge it.
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Hey, Andy, I'm no help with the rebuild, but just a note: I found that my Revo 13 with the V2 drive and turbo fins was faster in the water with a short stroke on the pedals (and less tiring to me, too). I started out pedaling all the way, then after watching some online videos where I could see the pedals, I noticed that most folks were using maybe half of the distance the pedals could travel. That was about right for me, and I changed how I pedaled. YMMV.
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Hey, Andy, I'm no help with the rebuild, but just a note: I found that my Revo 13 with the V2 drive and turbo fins was faster in the water with a short stroke on the pedals (and less tiring to me, too). I started out pedaling all the way, then after watching some online videos where I could see the pedals, I noticed that most folks were using maybe half of the distance the pedals could travel. That was about right for me, and I changed how I pedaled. YMMV.
Thanks. I'll have to give that a try. I was kind of doing that yesterday as it seemed to work better. Probably because I was missing all the teeth on one side of one of the sprockets!
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May as well order up a full set of cables as well. Even if you don't install them this round, you'll have them as spares. Hobie seems to require $5 shipping on all of their orders, so I tend to just order everything once and spend that $5 once.
What's up with Hobie's website? You can't click on any of the items to order and I don't see any kind of shopping cart. Do I need to call them? What is this 1950? Do I need to fill out an order form and mail it in?
Looks like there's stuff that's discontinued too. I don't really want to order a sprocket kit with the masts (they only list that with standard fin masts and I have turbo) I guess that means I have to pay for masts I'll never use and already have spares of? I read that you can use GT sprockets and masts but they cost more and I wonder if they're that much better.
There are also part number discrepancies between their parts diagram and their website.
Grrr...Just a little rant, I'll work it out.
Thanks again for all your advice though, much obliged.
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A quick look and I see that the V2 sprockets seem to be discontinued/out of stock everywhere, and the GT is where it's at. Yoy may want to consider just purchasing the bits to upgrade to the GT drive?
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A quick look and I see that the V2 sprockets seem to be discontinued/out of stock everywhere, and the GT is where it's at. Yoy may want to consider just purchasing the bits to upgrade to the GT drive?
Guess that's what I'll do. Doesn't make a lot of sense to not replace the two shafts (sprocket and idler) for the fairly low cost. Maybe the hub shaft too. They all have some scoring and wear. Probably gonna be close to $400 :(
Oh well, I'm sure I'll catch a lot more fish now :D
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What's up with Hobie's website? You can't click on any of the items to order and I don't see any kind of shopping cart. Do I need to call them? What is this 1950? Do I need to fill out an order form and mail it in?
Hobie only sells through retailers, not directly to customers. Contact Next Adventure or another Hobie dealer for parts.
Dan_E
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Hey, Andy, I'm no help with the rebuild, but just a note: I found that my Revo 13 with the V2 drive and turbo fins was faster in the water with a short stroke on the pedals (and less tiring to me, too). I started out pedaling all the way, then after watching some online videos where I could see the pedals, I noticed that most folks were using maybe half of the distance the pedals could travel. That was about right for me, and I changed how I pedaled. YMMV.
If your fishfinder has GPS features, monitor your speed while you try different styles of pedaling to determine which pedaling style provides the best speed and easiest and most comfortable operation. If your fishfinder doesn't have GPS features, use a hand-held GPS. I have found that a long slow pedal stroke provides me with a higher maximum speed than a short fast stroke. When trolling, where I try to maintain a speed of around 1.5 mph, I tend to automatically use a short fast stroke. I have to remind myself that a longer and slower stroke will let me maintain that speed with less effort.
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A quick look and I see that the V2 sprockets seem to be discontinued/out of stock everywhere, and the GT is where it's at. Yoy may want to consider just purchasing the bits to upgrade to the GT drive?
Guess that's what I'll do. Doesn't make a lot of sense to not replace the two shafts (sprocket and idler) for the fairly low cost. Maybe the hub shaft too. They all have some scoring and wear. Probably gonna be close to $400 :(
Oh well, I'm sure I'll catch a lot more fish now :D
I tried out a friend's Revolution, which has a GT drive, and was amazed at how much less friction the drive had than my well-lubricated V2 drive. If my V2 drive developed significant problems, I'd upgrade to at least a GT drive, rather than replacing a bunch of parts on my V2 drive. You might be able to find a used GT drive sitting in the garage of somebody who upgraded to the current drive.
d
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I tried out a friend's Revolution, which has a GT drive, and was amazed at how much less friction the drive had than my well-lubricated V2 drive. If my V2 drive developed significant problems, I'd upgrade to at least a GT drive, rather than replacing a bunch of parts on my V2 drive. You might be able to find a used GT drive sitting in the garage of somebody who upgraded to the current drive.
d
Thanks but too late. I ordered the parts to replace sprokets, masts, hubs, Idler pulley, chains/cables, and all shafts. Unless I'm missing something, this will essentially be the same as a GT drive. It'll just have the spine, pedals from the V2--which all seem to be in fine shape.
Should be here in a few days. Supposed to rain all week. Maybe I can sling some buzz bombs from the bank between showers... :)
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A quick look and I see that the V2 sprockets seem to be discontinued/out of stock everywhere, and the GT is where it's at. Yoy may want to consider just purchasing the bits to upgrade to the GT drive?
Guess that's what I'll do. Doesn't make a lot of sense to not replace the two shafts (sprocket and idler) for the fairly low cost. Maybe the hub shaft too. They all have some scoring and wear. Probably gonna be close to $400 :(
Oh well, I'm sure I'll catch a lot more fish now :D
I tried out a friend's Revolution, which has a GT drive, and was amazed at how much less friction the drive had than my well-lubricated V2 drive. If my V2 drive developed significant problems, I'd upgrade to at least a GT drive, rather than replacing a bunch of parts on my V2 drive. You might be able to find a used GT drive sitting in the garage of somebody who upgraded to the current drive.
d
The GT parts are essentially the same as the V2 except they have the Delrin needle bearings and the color gray. So, if your V2 has worn parts, it makes more sense to just upgrade your existing V2 to GT parts as needed (not necessarily all at once).
FWIW, BlueWRX02 and I swapped everything over on Lingbangers V2 drive in about 30 minutes while it was getting dark on us.
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So...One last Question. If someone reads this before I dive in this evening (waiting on the FedEx man now).
I ordered a drum shaft and can't find examples of how people remove the old one. I tapped on it a little bit but it didn't move. Lacking a press, I'm planning on supporting the back side of it with a socket and giving it a little bit more of a hit. Am I asking for trouble? They're just a press fit, right? Maybe I can get the vise open that far...Hoping the spine will remain in good enough shape to insert the new one. I know the shaft has splines. I might use a little loc-tite just in case there's a little slop from removing the old one.
Doesn't seem like this is a common replacement item. It's worn though, and I wanted to try to repair it as well as possible while i'm into it...
Thanks.
I'll maybe post some pics as I go so as to maybe help out others in the future.
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When I did mine I used a large set of channel locks opened up enough to put one jaw on the metal shaft and the other on the spine on the other side. I wrapped the jaws with towels and gently squeezed till it pushed through. It took some force but I was able to do it with some effort and a little cursing. Install the new one the same way.
Also, make sure you get the new one in evenly. I just measured from the spine to the end of the shaft on both sides and made sure they measured out evenly.
Good luck and post back if you have any other questions.
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Interested to see how it works out. I upgraded everything on my old drive except for the chains, and it didnt turn out as smooth as i was hoping. Maybe I did something wrong. There is just a lot of resistance compared to an actual gt drive. I also had to trim a couple spots that were rubbing. Another thing that didnt seem right, is the end of the bearings were exposed and seemed like they would end up just filling with sand and debris. Probably just going to buy a new drive. Let me know if anyone wants an older drive with mostly new parts that might just need a little tinkering.
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Update: Going slow taking my time.
•Since I got new hubs, I used one of the old hubs (pointy side up and resting flat portion on edge of bench) to back the spine (shaft backwards in the hole-hard to describe) and hammer the hub shaft out. It worked fine. Same with putting the new one in. I'm within a 32nd or 64th or so of even and didn't want to bang on it anymore--it is tight.
•Idler pully and shaft install-no problems. Though I understand there may be some clearance issues with the hubs that might need to be addressed when I get to that point.
•Front sprocket is fine and super smooth. Rear sprocket was rubbing a bit on the spine. I trimmed the underside of the spine a bit with utility knife to give it a little room and it's better thought there's still a little "catch" in the operation of it. It's not as smooth as the front sprocket. I've had it in and out a few times testing the clearance but I guess I'll take it out again and clean it all out/inspect the bearings and see if I can figure out what it might be. If it continues, I'll maybe switch sprocket positions and see if it happens on the front. After that...I don't know. Maybe run it for a while and see if it smooths out on it's own?
That's all for now. Really hope I can get this operating satisfactorily. This is a last ditch for this older revo. I'm not ready to spend the bucks for a new Outback just yet.
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I think I may have found the problem with that one sprocket though neither of them are "perfect", the one with the deep groove is, I think, unacceptable.
I believe the bearings are catching in the groove as they rotate around the shaft and sprocket. The groove appears to be where the seam is for the mold. The bearings seem to pinch against each other or jam-up causing the sprocket to catch. I'll post a couple of pictures below. I know these are not high precision parts but damn. Don't know if I should try to contact Hobie directly or go through the retailer I got it from? Pretty unlikely that they'd be willing to overnight new parts to me. I might try anyway. If they say they'll replace without a return, then I might try to patch this one up with some JB weld and a little sandpaper. What would you do?
I'm disappointed-to say the least. This was almost $400 in parts.
Here's a couple of pics:
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Dealer is sending a new sprocket by priority USPS...so probably 3 more days >:( >:( >:(
Don't know yet if I need to return this one-doubt it.
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(http://)
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Maybe next year...
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Dammit! More problems!
The masts that came with the sprocket/mast set have threads that aren't cut completely. It looks like they took one pass on the lathe or something and then forgot to follow through.
They won't even go into the hole (as you might expect).
I've contacted the dealer and will likely be getting yet another shipment...and a delay.
Frustrating...Was going to go and get a die to cut them the rest of the way but, damn, I paid pretty dearly for those masts!
I might do it anyway just to have the extra parts on hand...
It seemed like it would be such a simple thing to do...
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If my V2 drive developed significant problems, I'd upgrade to at least a GT drive, rather than replacing a bunch of parts on my V2 drive. You might be able to find a used GT drive sitting in the garage of somebody who upgraded to the current drive.
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Dammit! More problems!
The masts that came with the sprocket/mast set have threads that aren't cut completely. It looks like they took one pass on the lathe or something and then forgot to follow through.
They won't even go into the hole (as you might expect).
I've contacted the dealer and will likely be getting yet another shipment...and a delay.
Frustrating...Was going to go and get a die to cut them the rest of the way but, damn, I paid pretty dearly for those masts!
I might do it anyway just to have the extra parts on hand...
It seemed like it would be such a simple thing to do...
If you were closer I have a tap & die set we could cut that in minutes.
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I may actually be wrong about the threads. I pulled the masts out of the old sprockets and they look similar (square-cut threads, or something similar--shallow/sloppy?). They might just need a little deburring with a fine file or something...My unfamiliarity with these parts is apparent, I guess. I would hate to ruin the new sprockets though. I know one of the new sprockets is not currently useable so it might become the guinea pig.
Sorry for all the posts about this. Hopefully those who want to ignore it will do so. Maybe this info will help others in the future though...
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The threads are cut correctly.....shallow just like you received is how Hobie has always made them.
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If I remember correctly, I measured these shafts once with a caliper and then figured out the thread. They are a larger thread than what you would find for the diameter shaft so they do not need to be cut as deep to fit into the sprocket end. My guess is they went with a non metric thread on a metric shaft if that makes sense, It does in my head. ;) I had planned to make my own because for the amount of money one pair cost, I could have bought enough stainless rod to make several pairs.
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The threads are cut correctly.....shallow just like you received is how Hobie has always made them.
Thanks for the confirmation.
I guess I just need to clean them up a little bit so they'll fit in the hole in the sprocket (the old ones fit right in--snugly). There's a bit of metal "pushed out" at the edge of the new threads and it actually starts cutting threads in the non-threaded part of the brass fitting. I'm sure a few passes with a file will fix it.
Replacement sprocket should come tomorrow!!
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All back together and works good. Seemed a little stiff at first but loosened up as the day went by. I put in about 6 hours pedaling today. Not a salmon to been seen. Caught a few small lingcod (released) so it wasn't a total skunk.
Replacement sprocket had some issues. The screw holes for the front cover on the new sprocket went a little too deep and pushed out a little nubbin of plastic inside the bore (on both sides). I was able to smooth them out and there's actually a small hole there now. Works OK though.
Folks who have trouble with upgrading these drives, and find them a little clunky, may just need to pay attention to the parts they're getting. Hobie needs to work on their QC a little bit.
Thanks for the advice. Now I just need someone to tell me where to fish so I'll actually catch something!
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Now I just need someone to tell me where to fish so I'll actually catch something!
Not a hobie guy so I just sat back and read, glad you got it figured out.
Now I read somewhere to fish on the right side of the boat because that’s where the fish are...... I’m guessing that’s opposed to the wrong side?