NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Product Discussions => Topic started by: JasonM on February 12, 2018, 07:53:51 PM
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Has anyone had one of these in hand and used it yet? I've been waiting and hoping for one since I saw the introductory video months ago. I happened to check today and see that they're supposedly finally available. A quick Bing/Google search shows that they were also shown at the various northwest outdoor shows That I didn't get to go to. I sure hope it's as good as I'm hoping it will be. Gerber has my money and should have one of the 8" versions headed my way within the next day or two.
https://www.gerbergear.com/Activity/FISH/Controller-8-_31-003340
(http://www.gerbergear.com/var/gerber/storage/images/frontpage/activity/fish/controller-8-_31-003340/12819863-15-eng-US/Controller-8.jpg)
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Nice picture! Almost cut my finger looking at it. I’m still using the old Norwegian fillet knife my father had a lotta years ago. I would never trust myself with one as nice as this in my kayak for fear of a Davie Jones donation.
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I felt/held one at the sportsman's show. It definitely did feel nice in hand, unfortunately they didn't give me any fish to fillet though.
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Hopefully I'll be able to get out and get a fish that I can keep soon after I receive the knife. I was looking for a new fillet knife months ago, and saw that one from Berger was coming out soon. I'm a big fan of the Berger knives being great for the price (much better than cheaper knives, much cheaper than knives that are only slightly better), so I bought a cheap Wal-mart fillet knife to get me by until this one came out. I hope it will be good enough to wait this long for. Of course, I'll need to actually get out and fish before I'll know, though. :)
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I've got a drawer full of fillet knives which I've picked up over the years, but my favorite fillet knife is a Mustad knife which is available for $7.00 at Walmart. https://www.walmart.com/ip/KVD-Mustad-7-Fillet-Knife-with-Sheath/23704235 . I like the curvature of the blade, and it sharpens up nicely.
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I’ve used Dexter fillet knives for the last couple years or so and they work ok. I’ve been through a few other off brand fillet knives in the past too. My dad got me a Gerber fillet knife for Christmas , not the model pictured here. It’s a bad ass knife! That thing keeps a great edge for such a long time. I wish I would have gotten a gerber sooner! Filleting fish is sooo much easier with a quality knife... lol
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I had hoped to be able to give first impressions of the Gerber Controller fillet knife today, as I received the box that it was supposed to be in yesterday. ???
Unfortunately, the only thing in the box was the cheap sharpener that I added to the order to get to the $50 free shipping level. The fillet knife didn't get included in the box, despite it being listed on the packing list and there being no apparent damage or retaping if someone had opened it before it got to me. I called Gerber and they're shipping another one out, which I should have by Wednesday....
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I’ve used Dexter fillet knives for the last couple years or so and they work ok. I’ve been through a few other off brand fillet knives in the past too. My dad got me a Gerber fillet knife for Christmas , not the model pictured here. It’s a bad ass knife! That thing keeps a great edge for such a long time. I wish I would have gotten a gerber sooner! Filleting fish is sooo much easier with a quality knife... lol
I hesitate to say anything because of the blade snobs that I know are lurking (if it costs less than $100 it's garbage, etc.) but my 2 workhorse fillet knives are an old Cutco (small/flexible) and a newer Dexter (large/rigid). My wife does most of the filleting because I'm terrible at it but it's my job to keep the tools sharp. My BIL sharpens knives so I've got that in my pocket but honestly all I've done with these two is an occasional run through a cheap sharpener and frequent honing before a fillet session. I realize they're not the best knives on the planet but if you keep them sharp they work well. Honestly the Dexter has done better than I expected for what I paid and the no-slip bacteria-un-friendly handle is great.
I have had mixed results with Gerber products, ranging from "definitely a waste of money" to "wow this is pretty great". My perception, however, is that they're always improving things, which is why I continue to try their stuff. Sounds like the fillet knives are a good find.
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I never really had a "good" filet knife for many years. The blades were crap and never held an edge past two fish. I think the best I had was a Stren/Remington filet knife (still have).
Then Fungunnin came along and I was able to score a pair of retired Victorinox knives from him. They came sharpened and held an edge for several years and through a ton of rockfish and lings. Once I got a Wicked Edge sharpening system "holy crap" it made them crazy sharp, and have held the same crazy edge for two seasons now. Not even going touch them up this season.
Dexter Russell knives are a really good solid knife that hold their edge well, and I had plans to get one or two prior to the Victorinox knives.
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+1 on that Victorinox knife that Fungunnin recommended. I’ve never had a knife hold an edge like that for so long. I think mine was about $27 through Amazon. 8” curved breaking knife
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Fungunnin got me, too. I still have filet knives that I like a lot, but that curved Victorinox made them feel like butter knives. I think that at $27 or so, it's the most expensive filleting knife I've ever owned, and it's worth every penny.
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Just an update on this knife since I've had the opportunity to use it a few times now. It is holding an edge very well, and the handle design is by far the best that I've ever used for control (as you'd expect from the name) even with wet/bloody hands. The cleaning station at the Slayride event was sloped a lot more than I'm accustomed to and the fish were bigger than I usually get, so I wasn't able to keep my right hand as my "dry hand" like I try to do. Even when wet and bloody/slimy, the Controller fillet knife was very easy to grip and control. Now I just need to catch a lot more bigger fish so I get better at using the knife. ;D
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+1 on the Victorinox! Bill gave me one at an ORC and it performed beautifully, for years, before it needed a touch-up.
-Mark-
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Sure wish I could put a decent edge on a knife. I had the "Wicked Edge" guys sharpen my dexter at the Sportsman Show and it was a completely different knife with a sharp edge on it.
I just picked up a Victorinox recently - supposedly out of the package they are sharp, and I "needed" one for filleting kokanee. Merry Thanksgiving to ME. I'm going to continue to practice on the knife sharpening and honing since I think that skill is nearly as important as cutting the fish. Sure is fun to practice.
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Get a Worksharp. They will put an amazing edge on even the cheapest blade. I put such a fine edge on a cheap $5 berkley bait knife that when I was cutting the zip ties off my crab pot it unexpectedly met such little resistance in the zip ties that it quickly cut through the ties and the flesh ion my finger - right to the bone. It was amazing! I stand by the results of their product...on the beach applying pressure to the finger while elevating it over my head for 45 minutes.
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Hey Barb, try a set of Lansky sharpeners with guides. They really help to keep your angle consistent and correct.
-Mark-
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Hey Barb, try a set of Lansky sharpeners with guides. They really help to keep your angle consistent and correct.
-Mark-
Honestly, IMO the Lansky sharpeners are not at all worth the money. Really really sloppy design and don't do a very good job at all, at least mine would not hold the knife in the jaws straight no matter how much I fiddled to make it work. To go with that, the guides themselves are pretty clunky and the stones are limited in options.
Once I bit the bullet (buy once, cry once) and got the Wicked Edge, all of my knives are sticky sharp with perfectly matched edge angles. Two years and many many many many rock fish later, while still hair shaving sharp, I just gave my Victorinox and Stren filet knives a quick touch up with the 800-1000 grit to prep them for another two years.
Barb, if you would like me to tune up your knives (or let you drive the WE yourself) we could certainly meet up and knock them out over a beer.
Your's too Mark. :thumbsup:
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Honestly, IMO the Lansky sharpeners are not at all worth the money. Really really sloppy design and don't do a very good job at all, at least mine would not hold the knife in the jaws straight no matter how much I fiddled to make it work. To go with that, the guides themselves are pretty clunky and the stones are limited in options.
Once I bit the bullet (buy once, cry once) and got the Wicked Edge, all of my knives are sticky sharp with perfectly matched edge angles. Two years and many many many many rock fish later, while still hair shaving sharp, I just gave my Victorinox and Stren filet knives a quick touch up with the 800-1000 grit to prep them for another two years.
Barb, if you would like me to tune up your knives (or let you drive the WE yourself) we could certainly meet up and knock them out over a beer.
Your's too Mark. :thumbsup:
I owned a set of Lanksy and had similar fiddling issues - I could get an OK edge but there was an enormous difference when the Wicked Edge was taken to the knife. I've gone the route of a whetstone and I know it'll take me a long time before I have skills to get a professional level edge, but I'm getting better with more practice. INSAYN, What an awesome offer -- Thank you. I'll PM you and hopefully we can set something up. Maybe you should do a clinic :banjo: on sharpening. I'm sure the Gerber is a good knife (the original thread topic) -- all knives eventually need to get sharpened.
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Honestly, IMO the Lansky sharpeners are not at all worth the money. Really really sloppy design and don't do a very good job at all, at least mine would not hold the knife in the jaws straight no matter how much I fiddled to make it work. To go with that, the guides themselves are pretty clunky and the stones are limited in options.
Once I bit the bullet (buy once, cry once) and got the Wicked Edge, all of my knives are sticky sharp with perfectly matched edge angles. Two years and many many many many rock fish later, while still hair shaving sharp, I just gave my Victorinox and Stren filet knives a quick touch up with the 800-1000 grit to prep them for another two years.
Barb, if you would like me to tune up your knives (or let you drive the WE yourself) we could certainly meet up and knock them out over a beer.
Your's too Mark. :thumbsup:
I owned a set of Lanksy and had similar fiddling issues - I could get an OK edge but there was an enormous difference when the Wicked Edge was taken to the knife. I've gone the route of a whetstone and I know it'll take me a long time before I have skills to get a professional level edge, but I'm getting better with more practice. INSAYN, What an awesome offer -- Thank you. I'll PM you and hopefully we can set something up. Maybe you should do a clinic :banjo: on sharpening. I'm sure the Gerber is a good knife (the original thread topic) -- all knives eventually need to get sharpened.
PM me for sure.
As for putting on a clinic..... I'm not exactly a professional knife sharpening yahoo, however the Wicked Edge knife sharpener IS professional. It is so well made that it takes the dumb-clumsy out of my sharpening skills and makes the results look and function like a pro did it for me.
The Lansky only grips onto about 1/16" of the spine of the knife, whereas the WE grips no less than 1/8", and upwards of 3/8"+ depending on where the knife is clamped in at. This keeps the blade locked solid and perfectly straight every time.
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Before Bob Kramer became a master bladesmith with prices for his chef's knives in the $1000++, he had a shop in downtown Seattle, you could drop your knives off and pick them up a couple days later, with razor edges---sharp enough to cut a thrown Kleenex!! Here's a link to the knives made to his specs with his steel, by Zwilling J A Henckles. Back in the late 1980's he honed my knives with belts, the last passes with red rouge..
https://kitchenknifeguru.com/bob-kramer-knives-spend-300-chef-knife/
His Damascus is state of the art, there is such a demand for his custom knives that they are sold by auction on his website. You can register,
and then are eligible to participate in the auctions.
Here's a neat video showing him making smoked salmon using a red-hot....meteorite!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNQvwCdxyGw
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Before Bob Kramer became a master bladesmith with prices for his chef's knives in the $1000++, he had a shop in downtown Seattle, you could drop your knives off and pick them up a couple days later, with razor edges---sharp enough to cut a thrown Kleenex!! Here's a link to the knives made to his specs with his steel, by Zwilling J A Henckles. Back in the late 1980's he honed my knives with belts, the last passes with red rouge..
https://kitchenknifeguru.com/bob-kramer-knives-spend-300-chef-knife/
His Damascus is state of the art, there is such a demand for his custom knives that they are sold by auction on his website. You can register,
and then are eligible to participate in the auctions.
Here's a neat video showing him making smoked salmon using a red-hot....meteorite!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNQvwCdxyGw
I stop at 1000 grit with my Wicked Edge as this is sufficient for most daily used fillet and kitchen knives. Sticky sticky sharp!
Some folks get their knives stoopid sharp with the further lineup of additional diamond grit paddles, ceramic paddles, strop paddles using various polishing paste compounds clear down to the 0.025 micron (25 nanometer ) poly-crystalline diamond spray used on a kangaroo leather strop.
There are videos out there of folks popping a freshly plucked human hair over the edge and it cuts it like butter! Or, gently carving a curl off the side of a human hair.
That is WAYYYYYYYYY too sharp for my needs. :o
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Hey Barb, try a set of Lansky sharpeners with guides. They really help to keep your angle consistent and correct.
-Mark-
Honestly, IMO the Lansky sharpeners are not at all worth the money. Really really sloppy design and don't do a very good job at all, at least mine would not hold the knife in the jaws straight no matter how much I fiddled to make it work. To go with that, the guides themselves are pretty clunky and the stones are limited in options.
The disadvantage of the Lansky sharpening guide is that the hones pivot from a point which is pretty close to the edge of the blade. As a result, the angle of the facet of the blade changes as the hone moves to the right and to the left of the jaws which hold the blade. The Wicked Edge sharpening tools are very nicely made, but have the same deficiency, although the pivot point is further from the edge of the blade in the Wicked Edge tool.
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Processing fish and game is much easier if your knives are very sharp. I have made a sharpening jig for use with Lansky or DMT diamond hones which creates precise flat facets on the edge of a knife blade, and lets me keep the same angle on the facets over the entire length of a long kitchen knife. I've used this jig for years, and am currently working on an improved version of the jig.
Advantages of diamond hones are (a) they stay flat even after extended use, and (b) they can be lubricated with water, so you don't need to worry about getting oil in your fish or meat.
When you start using any sharpening jig on a knife, it may take a lot of time and effort to develop uniform facets over the entire length of the blade, and to eliminate any flat areas or nicks on the edge of the blade. But once you have established uniform facets and a sharp edge on a blade, you can quickly restore the blade to sharpness unless it has been abused. If there are members of your household who don't respect sharp knives and don't appreciate the care and work required to keep them sharp, and do things like cut against the bottom of a metal pan, you may need to hide your processing knives in order to protect them.
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Pete, that modified (DIY) Lansky jig looks like it takes most of the issues out of using the Lansky tool, over the factory design. How do you adjust for different edge angles with your modified setup?
One thing nice with the Wicked Edge system is that you can put the blade in the clamp the same exact way every time with the provided alignment jigs. On longer blades with a pretty good curve going to the tip, I like to place the point of the blade further toward the clamp so it is not as far of a reach for the diamond paddles when sharpening. From the clamp to the heel of the blade doesn't change angles and still within easy reach of the paddles.
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Nice write up Pete. I overcome the angle issue by doing a blade in multiple sections. Not perfect, but it works. The Lansky system also has issues with very thin blades, like smaller fillet knives, in that the hones sometimes hit the edge of the clamp.
-Mark-
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I tried a couple manual systems and either couldn't get consistent results or it would take way too long. Since my wife has several nice kitchen knives for which we had a more frequent need for sharpening, I just went with this powered unit with strop.
Chef’sChoice Diamond Hone FlexHone/Strop, Model 320
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005KJWZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think at least one of my manual systems cost more than that thing did. My wife thought I was crazy for spending that much on a knife sharpener until I showed her how it could take one of her knives from dull and frustrating to easily slicing perfect "so thin you can see well through them" slices of a soft, overripe grape in less than a minute. ;D
After practicing on a couple cheaper knives, I sharpened my wife's kitchen knives and a couple of my fillet/utility knives. Unless they get abused by cutting directly against a very hard surface, all it takes to get them back to super sharp when they eventually need it is a quick run through the strop side.
I did learn a lot about edge angles and what types of edges are best for different types of working knives when researching sharpeners. I also had a chat with an executive chef about knives and sharpening, and he cautioned me against taking knives to the too smooth, very thin razor edges that most consumers try to accomplish and demonstrate shaving hair off with. The edge needs to be very sharp, but have micro-serrations (too small to see easily, but large enough to cut better) to work best at cutting through meats and vegetables. I hadn't thought about it before, but when he explained that an edge that will cut the hair but not the skin under it is great for shaving, but likely won't be best at actually cutting for a working knife. He also pointed out that many people don't know to use the edge smoothly along the cut instead of getting the blade into position and trying to force it directly against the food being cut, which lets the edge do the work cleanly instead of the force trying to push it apart.
I have to admit that I was one of those that didn't really know to do that, or at least didn't think about it when I was processing food. Now that I've got the sharpener and have started to cut the way he said, all my knives seems like they are so much better than I thought they were before. I went back and watched a few videos of professional fish processors showing technique, and they do what the chef said to do. When I watched them before, I picked up the places to cut and the way to handle the fish. Now I see the angle and the motions with the knife and it all makes a bit more sense.
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I tried a couple manual systems and either couldn't get consistent results or it would take way too long. Since my wife has several nice kitchen knives for which we had a more frequent need for sharpening, I just went with this powered unit with strop.
Chef’sChoice Diamond Hone FlexHone/Strop, Model 320
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005KJWZ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think at least one of my manual systems cost more than that thing did. My wife thought I was crazy for spending that much on a knife sharpener until I showed her how it could take one of her knives from dull and frustrating to easily slicing perfect "so thin you can see well through them" slices of a soft, overripe grape in less than a minute. ;D
If your knives are sharp, processing fish and cutting food will be easier, and you will be a happier person. For most people, I think that the convenience of an electric knife sharpener such as the Chef's Choice sharpener is more important than any small improvement in sharpness which can be obtained with a fancy manual system. And I think that it's worth paying $80-150 for happiness and convenience.
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I've been the whole circuit on knife sharpeners Arkansas, diamond, Lansky and other jigs... As someone mentioned above, for long blades the Lansky needs to be repositioned to maintain a consistent bevel. For most a jig will deliver better results faster than other manual methods. It does take a bit more time than an electric sharpener, but with good knife steel the edge will last a long time and once the right bevel is established any touch up goes very fast.
I've reverted using stones, but 'upgraded' to Japanese water stones and a strop with very fine grit. But, I know that's not the right solution for everyone. It is by far the most effective means of sharpening my couple of really special Japanese damascus kitchen knives that have very hard steel cores (rhc 63+). And, I like the same approach for my 30 year old Cutco filet knife, too.
BTW, there is some great steel in some inexpensive knives, like the Victorinox mentioned above.
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I've been the whole circuit on knife sharpeners Arkansas, diamond, Lansky and other jigs... As someone mentioned above, for long blades the Lansky needs to be repositioned to maintain a consistent bevel. For most a jig will deliver better results faster than other manual methods. It does take a bit more time than an electric sharpener, but with good knife steel the edge will last a long time and once the right bevel is established any touch up goes very fast.
I've reverted using stones, but 'upgraded' to Japanese water stones and a strop with very fine grit. But, I know that's not the right solution for everyone. It is by far the most effective means of sharpening my couple of really special Japanese damascus kitchen knives that have very hard steel cores (rhc 63+). And, I like the same approach for my 30 year old Cutco filet knife, too.
Most people will get better sharpening results with an electric sharpener or a sharpening jig than they will by using a sharpening stone, because if they try to sharpen their knives by hand on a stone, they end up with rounded facets on the edges of their knives, and spend most of their time hitting the back or the belly of the facet with the stone, rather than the edge of the blade.
Japanese water stones can put a beautiful finish on the edge of a knife or other tool, but they are soft, and will quickly develop a dip in their center as the stone wears away. This dip interferes with maintaining a flat bevel on knives and tools, because at one end of the stone the edge will be digging into the stone, and at the other end of the stone the back of the facet will be digging into the stone. You can check a Japanese water stone for flatness with a straight edge. You can eliminate any dip by putting a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface like a piece of glass and rubbing the stone across the sandpaper. If a water stone has developed a significant dip, it can take a long time to remove it, but if you re-flatten a water stone periodically, it won't take too long to remove the dip.
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Pete, that modified (DIY) Lansky jig looks like it takes most of the issues out of using the Lansky tool, over the factory design. How do you adjust for different edge angles with your modified setup?
My current jig is set up to produce a 22 degree facet on knife edges, which I consider to be an acceptable compromise for kitchen knives between a sharp but fragile edge and a less sharp but stronger edge. I always leave the same amount of the edge of the knife extending above the jaws of the jig, to keep the facets at this angle.
I check the edge of a knife blade by running the edge at an angle across my thumbnail. The edge should cut in easily and slide smoothly across my nail. If the edge skips off my thumbnail, it's dull. If I feel rough or grabby spots on the edge as I run it across my nail, I hold the blade up in a direct light to see if I can see light reflecting off any flat spots or nicks in the edge.
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Since this thread has been hijacked by sharpening...smile...I have to mention...the most dangerous knife is a dull one. You have to use too much pressure to cut and that reduces your control over where the blade will go. I have the scar to prove it. However you get a knife sharp is good. Don't use a dull one.
"The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening," by John Juranitch is a great investment if you want to know more about sharpening knives (and all tools). He uses no water or oil, only sharpens dry, so some will shrink back in horror. When I learned from him 40 years ago how to put a shaving edge on a Barlow knife sharpened on sandpaper I became a convert.
The metallurgy of steel is key to a good knife. The safety knife on my PFD is a small Rapala. Its steel is soft, easy to sharpen, crappy at holding an edge. OK for its intended use and not much more. Buy a fillet knife with good steel and with care it will serve for a lifetime, whether you sharpen it or get someone else to.
Lansky sharpeners suffer from being flimsy. You can't put much pressure on the jig. If you are judicious about the pressure applied, though, one of those works a lot better than freehand.
Someone suggested a Work Sharp (around $70). It's good, quick, and relatively easy to use. Following Juranitch's technique of sharpening by removing the bulk of the steel quickly with coarse grit at a primary angle and finishing with finer grit at a slightly blunter angle but much less pressure permits making best use of the Work Sharp.