NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Product Discussions => Topic started by: Fungunnin on May 30, 2014, 01:32:57 PM
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Hey guys. This is a project I've been working on for a while and I'm in the final stages.
After having Mirage Drive arms fail on my boat and friends boats I decided I could build something better. Last year I made a few prototypes and have only gotten positive feedback. Since I am only an amateur fabricator I will be having custom solid aircraft grade aluminum arms for the Hobie Mirage drive machined to my specs. These will be sized exactly like the OEM arms and the same pedals will bolt on. The big difference will be THESE WONT BREAK! I guarantee that these arms will not break.
I have a few sets of my prototypes out there and I have been using a set for over a year .... Still rock solid.
Right now I'm trying to gauge an interest level of these and see if 10 or 20 guys are interested in a pair. Cost will be less than a set of new arms from Hobie but I don't have a definite price yet. I am opening this to my NWKA and NCKA brothers first.
What are your thoughts guys?
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OK guys! I finally have a final design a shop and pricing!
These are going to kick ass! The arms are going to be made of solid aircraft grade aluminum hard anodized to military spec. Each arm will be taped for bicycle pedals. Each set will come with a set of arms and a set of custom set of stainless shafts that fit into the arms and will allow the use of the factory Hobie pedals.
The pretty buy price is going to be $85 and full retail will be $124.99
The PayPal account will be live next week. I have a list of everyone who said they were interested. Let me know if you are in or out.
SUPER EXCITED!!! :D
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Yes from me. ;D
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I'd be interested if the price is good.
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I'm in for one, maybe two sets. Let me know!
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Bill, are you eliminating the drilled hole used for the leg adjustment?
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No they will still be adjustable.
They will be made from a much stronger solid aluminum bar with a stainless axle and mil spec anodizing.
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Probably two pairs from me, can you give a ballpark range (max-min) ?
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Count me in for 1 set.
Steve
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I'll buy a pair of arms if the price is acceptable. I haven't broken any pedal arms, but all the stories of people who have broken multiple arms make me very paranoidical.
But it irritates me that Hobie hasn't corrected and improved the design of its pedal arms so they don't break. The arm breakage problem has been going on for a long time, and is simply unacceptably bad design and/or materials. If a bicycle manufacturer made bikes with crank arms which tended to break, nobody would buy that company's bikes.
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I'm interested in a pair for sure. I have broke pedal arms before myself.
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I'll buy a pair of arms if the price is acceptable. I haven't broken any pedal arms, but all the stories of people who have broken multiple arms make me very paranoidical.
But it irritates me that Hobie hasn't corrected and improved the design of its pedal arms so they don't break. The arm breakage problem has been going on for a long time, and is simply unacceptably bad design and/or materials. If a bicycle manufacturer made bikes with crank arms which tended to break, nobody would buy that company's bikes.
It's a matter of cost of materials and fabrication vs. acceptable level of reliability. This thing isn't meant to safely carry people into the stratosphere and back. Hobie is aware of this problem and others that people talk about on forums, such as NWKA. They could fix this and every other issue users have complained about if consumers were just as willing to pay $300 more (random figure pulled out of my ___) for a mirage drive. At that point it's pushing the same retail cost as the boat itself. This piece of equipment is put through the ringer by people all over the world and routinely exposed to saltwater while experiencing many different forces. I'd say it does pretty well considering how hard I push mine. If the drive breaks, I pick up my paddle and go back to how I used to kayak fish.
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I'd probably be down for a set or two.
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It's a matter of cost of materials and fabrication vs. acceptable level of reliability.
I suspect that there isn't much difference between the cost of the hollow bar stock which Hobie is currently using for its pedal arms, and the solid bar stock which Funginnin is going to use. And I suspect that the cost of fabrication is almost identical; you need to drill the same number of holes in the stock whether the stock is hollow or solid. But the reliability of Hobie's current pedal arms doesn't seem acceptable to me. I know that Hobie has manufactured thousands of Mirage Drives, and I know that no manufactured product is perfect. There will be occasional failures in any product. But look at how many NWKA members have had one or more pedal arms break, and/or know other kayakers who have had one or more pedal arms break. That is an unacceptably high breakage rate. Hobie should have fixed this problem years ago.
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It's a matter of cost of materials and fabrication vs. acceptable level of reliability.
I suspect that there isn't much difference between the cost of the hollow bar stock which Hobie is currently using for its pedal arms, and the solid bar stock which Funginnin is going to use. And I suspect that the cost of fabrication is almost identical; you need to drill the same number of holes in the stock whether the stock is hollow or solid. But the reliability of Hobie's current pedal arms doesn't seem acceptable to me. I know that Hobie has manufactured thousands of Mirage Drives, and I know that no manufactured product is perfect. There will be occasional failures in any product. But look at how many NWKA members have had one or more pedal arms break, and/or know other kayakers who have had one or more pedal arms break. That is an unacceptably high breakage rate. Hobie should have fixed this problem years ago.
The aluminum I am using is about 7-10 times more expensive than the metal I think Hobie is using.
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It's a matter of cost of materials and fabrication vs. acceptable level of reliability.
I suspect that there isn't much difference between the cost of the hollow bar stock which Hobie is currently using for its pedal arms, and the solid bar stock which Funginnin is going to use. And I suspect that the cost of fabrication is almost identical; you need to drill the same number of holes in the stock whether the stock is hollow or solid. But the reliability of Hobie's current pedal arms doesn't seem acceptable to me. I know that Hobie has manufactured thousands of Mirage Drives, and I know that no manufactured product is perfect. There will be occasional failures in any product. But look at how many NWKA members have had one or more pedal arms break, and/or know other kayakers who have had one or more pedal arms break. That is an unacceptably high breakage rate. Hobie should have fixed this problem years ago.
How many other companies make foot-pedal driven kayaks? Native is the only other name in the game. How come we don't see a lot of people griping about parts on the Native Propel system breaking? Because the number of active members on this forum that use that product is probably much less than the number of fingers I have. So naturally, Hobie is going to have more people complaining about their product since there are more people pushing it harder, which is a natural result of higher market penetration. I guess they're the victim of developing such a tight patent. ;D It isn't as though they do not try to fix problems that come along. You'll notice a dramatic difference in a mirage drive from ten years ago compared with one made today.
Of course, I know what people are thinking: "Of course he is going to be the one defending Hobie stuff. He is on their fishing team." And you know what, it's completely true. Because I wouldn't be on Hobie's fishing team if I didn't think Hobie made a superior product. But even superior products can have their faults. There are probably less than a dozen Hobie users on this forum that have broken as many mirage drive parts as me. Just ask the people who submit the Hobie parts orders at Next Adventure. ::)
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I'm in.
Tom
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Yup...I'm down for two pair. I saw your arms at hobuck a couple weeks back and was pretty impressed. I've broken three arms on two different drives so far and currently have substituted stainless bolts/locknuts for the adjuster assemblies to eliminate the play at the adjuster pin.
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One pair
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It's a matter of cost of materials and fabrication vs. acceptable level of reliability.
I suspect that there isn't much difference between the cost of the hollow bar stock which Hobie is currently using for its pedal arms, and the solid bar stock which Funginnin is going to use. And I suspect that the cost of fabrication is almost identical; you need to drill the same number of holes in the stock whether the stock is hollow or solid. But the reliability of Hobie's current pedal arms doesn't seem acceptable to me. I know that Hobie has manufactured thousands of Mirage Drives, and I know that no manufactured product is perfect. There will be occasional failures in any product. But look at how many NWKA members have had one or more pedal arms break, and/or know other kayakers who have had one or more pedal arms break. That is an unacceptably high breakage rate. Hobie should have fixed this problem years ago.
The aluminum I am using is about 7-10 times more expensive than the metal I think Hobie is using.
Also, unless I am wrong, FG is using solid bar stock whereas Hobie uses hollow. I could make a jig and then punch (drilling takes too long) the necessary holes in a hundred (if not more) hollow bars with a press in the time it takes to mill a solid one out of aluminum. That increases the cost significantly.
It is my opinion, that the Hobie drive is very reliable. I beat the crap out of mine and have never replaced a part. I probably don't get the leverage that FG and Rory get on their pedals since my legs aren't as long.
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Oh, and I would be interested in a pair, as well.
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In for a pair as well.
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I am interested, 1 or 2 pair, depending on cost...roger
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Very Interested.
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I'd be interested in a pair.
Fred "True" Trujillo
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I'm in for a set.
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I would like a set, please put me on the list.
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Please add me to the list for 1 set...Hobie lists the "V2" arms @ $42 each and if the solid arms are in the same price range, that is a great upgrade!
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Count me in!
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Count me in
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This guy's in for 1 set too
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Right now, Fungunnin's thinking, "What the Hell was I thinking?"
Fred "True" Trujillo
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Me too
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Right now, Fungunnin's thinking, "What the Hell was I thinking?"
Fred "True" Trujillo
This is gonna take a bigger drill press.
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Right now, Fungunnin's thinking, "What the Hell was I thinking?"
Fred "True" Trujillo
This is gonna take a bigger drill press.
He's probably thinking that he can make 20 and auction them off to the highest bidders. >:D
-Allen
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WOW guys!
I am blown away by the response. Here is my basic plan for how this first round is going to work:
I am going to take pre-orders and prepayment to help me with set up costs and the cost of ordering the first production run. In return I will be offering a lower price than when I get this project up and running. This offer will only be extended to the NWKA and NCKA community.
I will have pricing firmed in the next couple of days as I am working on a few changes to the design. Stay tuned and I will keep you all updated.
Thanks!
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sounds like a perfect "Kickstarter" project to me...get backers and based on how much funding comes in, decide how much to invest in time saving manufacturing stuff...cheers, roger
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Yeaaa. I'm totally in too. I put a lot of weight on mine and I got a feeling they are gonna bust soon
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I'm in for a pair!
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Like to get a pair, maybe 2 depends on cost.
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yes please
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I was lucky enough to get an early prototype and LOVE them. Count me in for 2 pairs. If you're going to do longer sets, then make that 1 pair regular, 1 pair long (for the FL PA12).
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I'm in for a pair...thanks!
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The Hobie replacement pedal crank comes only as an "assembly" making the left and right different. They are about $45/each.
Since the solid stock pedal cranks will not include the pedal, are they either left or right?
Depending on price, I'm in for a pair. I'm in salt water almost exclusively and although I rinse as a religion the NWKA reports of crank breakage are concerning.
Thanks!
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The pedal arms will be sold as a pair.
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Put me down for a couple B.
BTW I got a set earlier from B as well. Good stuff for sure.
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Ok im in also. What do you think the time line will be. Not that I need a new set or that mine are broken.
Thanks for put in your neck out and doing all the work.
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My goal is to ship by the end of the month. I will know more by the end of this week.
Stay tuned! :)
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For those of us who can't hand over the cash in person, please give us a quote for shipping as well, so we can include that extra amount in our payment.
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Pricing will be firm after I get the machine shop programming costs. New designs are already finished with a cool feature I think some guys will like to experiment with.
Shipping will be $5 per pair and I will have to collect sales tax from Washington guys.
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I'm in for a set as well if you're still adding to the list!
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If you can get a bunch made, ORC would be a great place to be selling/delivering them. Maybe even a prize? :)
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If you can get a bunch made, ORC would be a great place to be selling/delivering them. Maybe even a prize? :)
Good idea! .... I'll see if I can make it happen even if I can't make it down.
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I'm interested as well
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Seeing as I have a few drives in the garage you should put me down for a set, too. Glad to see people taking the initiative to improve a design and share with others.
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Put me down for a set as well.
Sent from my SCH-I545
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Put me down too.. Plus I still owe you some beer for the the nice filet job you did on my halibut!! Thanks again
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I'll get in line for a set. Any plans for additional lots in the future now that there is strong interest?
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Additional lots?
Do you mean a second production run or a different design?
There will definitely be a second production run. Those arms will be sold at what ever I decide as my regular retail price. This first run will be offered at a discount to help with start up costs and to give back to the NWKA and NCKA family.
As for different designs/ options I am all ears as I want this to be as useful a product as possible. If you have ideas feel free to throw them out there.
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I am all ears
Oh, so that explains the sideburns. BTW; they're not compensating, your ears are still big...
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Put me down too.. Plus I still owe you some beer for the the nice filet job you did on my halibut!! Thanks again
I like IPAs :))
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2 pairs please
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Do you mean a second production run or a different design?
I was referring to additional production runs in case we wanted to buy in the future, but I imagine you'll get more ideas with customer feedback and might consider a design change. In a previous thread I said that the hole that size in the middle of a pedal arm is a terrible design. I would like to see a pedal arm without a hole in the middle. That's more of a pedal adjustment issue than pedal arm issue, so it's probably out of scope here.
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In for a pair.
I have a question for the engineers of nwka. Is it possible the drive arms are designed to be a weak point, absorbing damage that would otherwise damage the drive well?
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Count me in for a pair.
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Do you mean a second production run or a different design?
I was referring to additional production runs in case we wanted to buy in the future, but I imagine you'll get more ideas with customer feedback and might consider a design change. In a previous thread I said that the hole that size in the middle of a pedal arm is a terrible design. I would like to see a pedal arm without a hole in the middle. That's more of a pedal adjustment issue than pedal arm issue, so it's probably out of scope here.
Actually, I think that could easily be remedied if the design incorporated a U bolt that went around the pedal arm instead of through it.
Bill, didn't your original repair use a U bolt?
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Yes, I used a U-bolt to do an emergency fix in camp. This is definitely an option though it does not allow for the full range of adjustment built into the arm. I believe that the reason arms are failing is that the metal quality is just standard aluminum and not high strength bar. By going to a solid bar an the highest quality aluminum I am confident that we can eliminate arm breakage.
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We will definitely be running later productions, though the cost will be higher.
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I love billet machined stuff........count me in for a pair too
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Any progress or news on this?...if you have a cost I'm ready to send you some $$
I'm pretty stoked about it since I've broken two this season alone.
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I have been told that I will have set up cost by end of day today. Hope to have PayPal and everything lined up by Friday to start accepting payment and confirming orders.
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Sweet!!
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Awesome!!
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In for a pair.
I have a question for the engineers of nwka. Is it possible the drive arms are designed to be a weak point, absorbing damage that would otherwise damage the drive well?
I have wondered the same thing. I've also wondered this: Since the maximum amount of force that can be applied to the pedal is whatever the water resistance is at the fin plus whatever resistance is on the other pedal, are the arms breaking more easily than expected because of the natural tendency to not lift your non-drive leg? I.e. you're pushing the fin, plus you're pushing your other leg up, and possibly you're even exerting force without thinking about it with the non-drive leg.
I think this is a cool product, I'm not down on it at all, but I'm curious why the arms are breaking in the first place. It seems to me that if I take one of my feet off the pedals altogether and push as hard as I can with just one leg that I would never break the arm. But perhaps that is not true in some conditions. I'm not playing down the breakage others have experienced at all, but I'm curious if it is relatively easy to avoid.
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In for a pair.
I have a question for the engineers of nwka. Is it possible the drive arms are designed to be a weak point, absorbing damage that would otherwise damage the drive well?
I have wondered the same thing. I've also wondered this: Since the maximum amount of force that can be applied to the pedal is whatever the water resistance is at the fin plus whatever resistance is on the other pedal, are the arms breaking more easily than expected because of the natural tendency to not lift your non-drive leg? I.e. you're pushing the fin, plus you're pushing your other leg up, and possibly you're even exerting force without thinking about it with the non-drive leg.
I think this is a cool product, I'm not down on it at all, but I'm curious why the arms are breaking in the first place. It seems to me that if I take one of my feet off the pedals altogether and push as hard as I can with just one leg that I would never break the arm. But perhaps that is not true in some conditions. I'm not playing down the breakage others have experienced at all, but I'm curious if it is relatively easy to avoid.
I'd have to be able to look at the fractured face to be able to tell, but I think these are fatigue failures, not single overload failures. If it is fatigue then beefing up the arms will only help overall drive durability. If it's single overload failures then yes, beefing them up could cause a more expensive failure elsewhere in the drive, though that is far from certain.
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Good point, fatigue vs. overload.
I guess call me a "strong maybe" for 2 sets. :)
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I always wondered why they were not aluminum. Bicycle crank arms are and they take forces much greater than these.
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The Hobie arms are aluminum, just hollow bar. I also believe they are fairly low grade aluminum. Bike cranks are solid or highly engineered hollow cranks.
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I always wondered why they were not aluminum. Bicycle crank arms are and they take forces much greater than these.
The Hobie arms are aluminum, just hollow bar. I also believe they are fairly low grade aluminum. Bike cranks are solid or highly engineered hollow cranks.
Yeah, there's aluminum, and there's aluminum. The strength and fatigue resistance of different alloys (and the quality of a given alloy based on the supplier) varies greatly.
Also, a big difference between a cheap hollow bar extrusion and the (I assume) expensivly forged shapes of bike cranks doesn't really compare. Even if they did, look at the cross-section of your bike's crank, and then at the cross-section of a Hobie pedal arm. The bike crank will be a lot beefier. The bike manufacturer would have gone through some pretty sophisticated stress analysis before it was produced. Hobie probably went to Home Depot and bought some cheap aluminum tube stock, tested it in a prototype for a month, and called it good.
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FYI, response from one of the guys at Hobie about this issue:
We have experienced some issues with this item - we have the arms extruded for us by an outside vendor. They've had some hardness issue - we now do 100% hardness test in-house before the cranks get assembled - and the issue hopefully is behind us. We are also making an upcoming change to this part and increasing the size of the section - so in the future (likely new model year) the crank arms are going to get a slight change - which we make a change to the adjuster handle as well.
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In for a pair.
I have a question for the engineers of nwka. Is it possible the drive arms are designed to be a weak point, absorbing damage that would otherwise damage the drive well?
I have wondered the same thing. I've also wondered this: Since the maximum amount of force that can be applied to the pedal is whatever the water resistance is at the fin plus whatever resistance is on the other pedal, are the arms breaking more easily than expected because of the natural tendency to not lift your non-drive leg? I.e. you're pushing the fin, plus you're pushing your other leg up, and possibly you're even exerting force without thinking about it with the non-drive leg.
I think this is a cool product, I'm not down on it at all, but I'm curious why the arms are breaking in the first place. It seems to me that if I take one of my feet off the pedals altogether and push as hard as I can with just one leg that I would never break the arm. But perhaps that is not true in some conditions. I'm not playing down the breakage others have experienced at all, but I'm curious if it is relatively easy to avoid.
I'd have to be able to look at the fractured face to be able to tell, but I think these are fatigue failures, not single overload failures. If it is fatigue then beefing up the arms will only help overall drive durability. If it's single overload failures then yes, beefing them up could cause a more expensive failure elsewhere in the drive, though that is far from certain.
I've examined my fracture faces pretty closely...one appears to be a clean break (the one I suffered when my drive came out of the water climbing a big wave face) and the other looks like it started as a crack at the inboard aft corner and propagated into a failure...I still have them on my workbench for some reason.
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Beyond the cost, imagine if you will..... "carbon fiber". :o
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Carbon fiber is cool and all, but the problem with it is A) it really doesn't having holes in it (esp woven and unidirectional fiber layups), and B) even if you get the holes right (which requires winding fibers around the circumference) if it fails it can do so without any warning. The aluminum arms that failed probably had cracks that an inspection looking for such would have turned up perhaps a dozen trips or more before final failure. Composites, especially carbon, are notorious for not having any visible fatigue damage prior to catastrophic failure.
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You have to remember that many manufacturing companies design things to last so many cycles before fatigue sets in and a part fails. Some of this is intentional to sell parts, some to protect other (more expensive) parts from breaking, and some to save on manufacturing costs. Not sure which reason hobie uses, but beware that you may break something else.
All that being said... I'm gonna try them out
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From what I've seen as an engineer it's usually a cost cutting move that has little thought as to consequences attached to it. Planned obselence is usually more work than people want to put into it.
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From what I've seen as an engineer it's usually a cost cutting move that has little thought as to consequences attached to it. Planned obselence is usually more work than people want to put into it.
. That's usually more related to the auto industry
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I've examined my fracture faces pretty closely...one appears to be a clean break (the one I suffered when my drive came out of the water climbing a big wave face) and the other looks like it started as a crack at the inboard aft corner and propagated into a failure...I still have them on my workbench for some reason.
Thanks for the feedback. Also the quote from Hobie via Rawkfish is pretty interesting.
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... the quote from Hobie via Rawkfish is pretty interesting.
Very...especially considering that both my failures were isolated to my 2013 V2 drive while my 2006 V1 drive is going strong.
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I've noticed the same thing. My older drive looks fine, but the newer drive was the one that failed. The arm on the newer drive that didn't fail looked like it was going to so I replaced it too.
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... the quote from Hobie via Rawkfish is pretty interesting.
Very...especially considering that both my failures were isolated to my 2013 V2 drive while my 2006 V1 drive is going strong.
has me scratching my metallurgy brain and wondering if anyone has collected/posted any data on what year V2 drives are showing the most failures---
2010?
2011?
2012?
2013?...
that would be interesting data, might help differentiate between an temporary alloy/processing/heat treatment issue (mostly effecting V2 drives over a limited period of time) or a design issue (fairly uniform for all V2 years)...cheers, roger
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I have two 2011's and both have held up fine.
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2x 2014 v2s here, no signs of problems yet, but I've got less than 100 miles on them so far (probably around 50-60 miles in non-ocean conditions).
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2012- v2 drive for the 2012 PA12 that I bought from Ron has had no problems.
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A big factor in this is also how hard the user pushes the drive though.
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I do believe that broken drives only occur to the small fraction of guys who push their gear hard. Hobie designed a part that is good enough 95% of the time. The problem is it a minor part. With a broken drive and an Outback or PA you are damn near dead in the water. It is like an airplane wing that is strong enough to fly with unless you get caught in a storm. The drive needs to be rock solid.
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I do believe that broken drives only occur to the small fraction of guys who push their gear hard. Hobie designed a part that is good enough 95% of the time.
I think that would tilt the scales away from a fatigue+single overload failure to more of a single overload catastrophic failure which could still be caused by either a material, processing, or manufacturing defect that occurred over a limited number of drives.
However, if the design is such that a single high force cycle can cause failure at any point in the life of the drive, despite everything about the arms being perfectly grizzly and quite correct, then the failures should occur relatively equally over all drive years...
fatigue, if it is occurring under normal or slightly heavy use (a design problem), would over time reduce the force required to cause a final catastrophic failure, so the earliest failures (with lowest hours on the drive) would be in those pushing their gear really hard, but over time, failures would start showing up in those racking up lots of hours of normal use (fatigue cracks grow), punctuated by a final slightly hard cycle...cheers, roger
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I think I have seen that guy fishing , he was beating a flounder with his bare hands VIKING STYLE.
That's hilarious
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Quick update guys,
I have not forgotten about you, just been busy trying to make this work. The original shop that I have been talking to came back with a quote that is completely unreasonable. So I have opened conversations with a few other machine shops in an attempt to create a better product at a competitive price. When I get a shop locked in I will let you all know.
In the mean time, I have a list of everyone who has expressed interest for far. If you have not spoken up and wish to be a part of the group buy feel free to post here and I will include you on the list.
Thanks for the support
~Bill
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OK guys! I finally have a final design a shop and pricing!
These are going to kick ass! The arms are going to be made of solid aircraft grade aluminum hard anodized to military spec. Each arm will be taped for bicycle pedals. Each set will come with a set of arms and a set of custom set of stainless shafts that fit into the arms and will allow the use of the factory Hobie pedals.
The pretty buy price is going to be $85 and full retail will be $124.99
The PayPal account will be live next week. I have a list of everyone who said they were interested. Let me know if you are in or out.
SUPER EXCITED!!! :D
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OK guys! I finally have a final design a shop and pricing!
These are going to kick ass! The arms are going to be made of solid aircraft grade aluminum hard anodized to military spec. Each arm will be taped for bicycle pedals. Each set will come with a set of arms and a set of custom set of stainless shafts that fit into the arms and will allow the use of the factory Hobie pedals.
The pretty buy price is going to be $85 and full retail will be $124.99
The PayPal account will be live next week. I have a list of everyone who said they were interested. Let me know if you are in or out.
SUPER EXCITED!!! :D
If I win the ORC I might want a set ;D
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fantastic, I am in for 1 pair. roger
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I'm in for a pair. I originally said two pairs but I sold my Outback last week. This is awesome! I'm stoked.
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In for one.
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Me! Me! Me! One pair. Will these be brought to the ORC?
Thank you!
Fred "True" Trujillo
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Me! Me! Me! One pair. Will these be brought to the ORC?
Thank you!
Fred "True" Trujillo
They will not be ready for ORC ... It will take 4-5 weeks for machining.
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Thanks! I'm still in for a pair. Shipping? Pickup?
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Thanks! I'm still in for a pair. Shipping? Total Cost? Thanks again!! ;D
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I'm in for a pair.
T2
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In for 1 pair.
Willbd
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I still want them!
Fred "True" Trujillo
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I still want a set.
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Still interested in a pair
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I'm still in for two sets...and pretty damned excited about it. Thanks for doing this Billy
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I am in for a pair also.
Wobbler
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I'm in. 1 set.
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Great news, and I am still committed to a set.
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I am in for 2 pairs
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I'm in for 1 pair.
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UPDATE .....
Shipping will be $6 flat rate regardless of how many arms you get, or pick up in West Seattle.
The PayPal account should be set up by Wednesday. I'll be pm'ing everyone who expressed interest to try to get a solid count. Thanks for your support through this guys. If you know guys outside of NWKA or NCKA who might like a pair feel free to let them know about the pre buy.
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I'm still in!
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I'm still in for one set! Thanks :banjo:
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Im still in
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I think what Bill is doing is fantastic. I also think that one of the Hobie sponsored people should make Hobie aware of this. I for one am now rather conflicted about purchasing a Hobie, although I've been contemplating it because of all the good reasons. I'm just struggling with the principle of buying an "upgrade" to keep it functional under normal conditions. Again, kudos to Bill, and I'll probably get on board eventually.
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Still in .
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I think what Bill is doing is fantastic. I also think that one of the Hobie sponsored people should make Hobie aware of this. I for one am now rather conflicted about purchasing a Hobie, although I've been contemplating it because of all the good reasons. I'm just struggling with the principle of buying an "upgrade" to keep it functional under normal conditions. Again, kudos to Bill, and I'll probably get on board eventually.
Did it. They were already aware of the issue and have actions in place to correct it. I added the response earlier in this thread:
FYI, response from one of the guys at Hobie about this issue:
We have experienced some issues with this item - we have the arms extruded for us by an outside vendor. They've had some hardness issue - we now do 100% hardness test in-house before the cranks get assembled - and the issue hopefully is behind us. We are also making an upcoming change to this part and increasing the size of the section - so in the future (likely new model year) the crank arms are going to get a slight change - which we make a change to the adjuster handle as well.
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Do you have a pic to share or one of the most recent prototype?
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Thanks Jeff, didn't see that. Glad they are getting on top of it. Carry on... :-)
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Here is a picture. The shaft will have bicycle threads on it and thread onto the arm. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/01/sa7eme9a.jpg)
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I am still in for 1 pair/set.
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I am all set up with PayPal to start receiving payments for the arms. As soon as the orders some in we will get the production sent off to the shop.
Please PM me your email and how many sets you would like. You will receive an invoice from 'Seattle Innovations' for $85 for each set plus $6 for shipping. Washington residents will have to pay sales tax too.
Thanks guys, the soon we get payments to the sooner we can start fabrication.
~Bill
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Bill,
I don't see a link to your PayPal account.
Willbd
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I haven't set up a website with a paypal portal yet .... Pm me your email and I'll send you an invoice
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FYI, response from one of the guys at Hobie about this issue:
We have experienced some issues with this item - we have the arms extruded for us by an outside vendor. They've had some hardness issue - we now do 100% hardness test in-house before the cranks get assembled - and the issue hopefully is behind us. We are also making an upcoming change to this part and increasing the size of the section - so in the future (likely new model year) the crank arms are going to get a slight change - which we make a change to the adjuster handle as well.
Well...I dunno about that :) i LOVE my hobies, but this has been a problem for years (busted 3). If in fact an outside vendor had QA issues, then that means the arms were even worse than normal. I think another possibility is that there are just more mirage drives out there now, and therefore more of them breaking. So they added in-house QA as an additional measure. Doesn't fix the fact they are hollow!
Don't get me wrong, hobies are rad and their designs are rad. They are working out the kinks. It's all part of the process. They should switch to bill as their pedal arm vendor. For real.
Bill if you need another hobie item to improve upon...PLUG IN BEACH CART :) i would pay vast amounts of money for a well made cart.
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2 pairs for me
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FYI, response from one of the guys at Hobie about this issue:
We have experienced some issues with this item - we have the arms extruded for us by an outside vendor. They've had some hardness issue - we now do 100% hardness test in-house before the cranks get assembled - and the issue hopefully is behind us. We are also making an upcoming change to this part and increasing the size of the section - so in the future (likely new model year) the crank arms are going to get a slight change - which we make a change to the adjuster handle as well.
Well...I dunno about that :) i LOVE my hobies, but this has been a problem for years (busted 3). If in fact an outside vendor had QA issues, then that means the arms were even worse than normal. I think another possibility is that there are just more mirage drives out there now, and therefore more of them breaking. So they added in-house QA as an additional measure. Doesn't fix the fact they are hollow!
Don't get me wrong, hobies are rad and their designs are rad. They are working out the kinks. It's all part of the process. They should switch to bill as their pedal arm vendor. For real.
Bill if you need another hobie item to improve upon...PLUG IN BEACH CART :) i would pay vast amounts of money for a well made cart.
It's not the fact that they're hollow that's the problem. It's poor material combined with an insufficient polar moment of inertia. Better material, and an optimized design would allow it to be hollow while still being rock-solid. That probably means a bigger outer perimeter with the same wall thickness.
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Payment sent! Excited to get the finished product.
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I am going to close pre orders this weekend and need to know if anyone else want to get in. Please send me your email and number of units and I will send you an invoice from "Seattle Innovations"
I am just 9 units away from making the my number to submit this to the machine shop.
Thanks for the support with this project!!!
~Bill
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I'm in for one set. PM sent...
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I'm in for one set. PM sent...
:D
Thanks!
Only 8 more....
Help me make this happen guys!
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Two more spoken for! Only 6 to go! =)
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Hey FG - How do you cope with mirage drive arms hitting the boat hull at full end of travel? Anyway that can be eliminated? Just asking cause you are tall enough to know what I mean...
Thanks - Alan
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Do you have me down for a set?
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Hey FG - How do you cope with mirage drive arms hitting the boat hull at full end of travel? Anyway that can be eliminated? Just asking cause you are tall enough to know what I mean...
Thanks - Alan
To avoid hull slap with either the arms or the fins you have just use a shorter stroke. I don't have an issue with the arms hitting because the Addy has a longer cockpit but the fins will slap if I try to use too long of a stroke.
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Do you have me down for a set?
Pm sent
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Paid. Thanks bill.
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Paid. Thanks bill.
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Paid. Thanks bill.
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Looks like Rev is getting 3 sets.
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Stupid tapatalk
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Only 3 sets left at $85 after that I will end the pre buys and send the order off to manufacturer and sets will be $125 retail.
Thanks for the support!
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Only 3 sets left at $85 after that I will end the pre buys and send the order off to manufacturer and sets will be $125 retail.
Thanks for the support!
I'll take the 3
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Only 3 sets left at $85 after that I will end the pre buys and send the order off to manufacturer and sets will be $125 retail.
Thanks for the support!
I'll take the 3
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I'll send you an updated invoice!
Thanks!
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Hey Bill, can you give us an update? Production started? Estimate delivery?
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The order has been sent off to the machine shop and raw materials already ordered. Manufacture and finishing time was quoted at 4-6 weeks. So I hope to have these done by the end of August, shipping the first part of September. The support from NWKA and NCKA was amazing! Thank you guys for helping to get this project off the ground.
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Bummed I had to pass on this 1st go around. I will be picking up a set at the reatil price in the hopefully near future.
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Sweet, thanks for the update!
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Almost done! The shop is done with the machine work and the arms have been set for anodizing. They should be ready to ship next week =) WhooHoo!
This is my sample set in the white. Thanks to all for making this project happen.
I'll have my set with me at the Coho Classis tomorrow
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/05/8bf6a58a88744c9e4bafc43e4ddfa54e.jpg)
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Almost done! The shop is done with the machine work and the arms have been set for anodizing. They should be ready to ship next week =) WhooHoo!
This is my sample set in the white. Thanks to all for making this project happen.
I'll have my set with me at the Coho Classis tomorrow
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/05/8bf6a58a88744c9e4bafc43e4ddfa54e.jpg)
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Orders shipped today!
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/18/0b573e48eefbc37a198a10da6f8ee8dd.jpg)
Thanks to everyone who helped to make this happen.
Anyone who want a set and didn't get in on the pre order I'll knock $25 off the regular price for NWKA guys. $100
PM me if you are interested.
Thanks,
~Bill
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Orders shipped today!
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Awesome! Thanks Bill!
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Woohoo.
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Kick Ass! thanks Billy!
Timing couldn't be better...big trip planned for next week...woot!!!
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Got the notice Bill--thanks a lot. I'm looking forward to trying them out.
Tom
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Came home to a little package in the mailbox. :banjo:
These are what the Mirage drive should have all along.
Fantastic job, Fungunnin, thank you.
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Do we know if these will fit the new Hobies?
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Got mine yesterday! Looking forward to putting them in. Thanks, Fungunnin!
Fred "True" Trujillo
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Do we know if these will fit the new Hobies?
I haven't seen the new drives yet but it my understanding that the new drives have the same sized arms. If the dimensions are the same the arms should fit no problem.
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Thanks.
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It would be helpful if you would post some suggestions for installing the arms. For example, should we put Loctite on the threads of the pedal shaft, and if so, what color? What are your suggestions for installing the bungie cord which keeps the pedal oriented? There are two little plastic parts included in the box; what are they for?
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Installed and ready for Wednesday. Perfect fit and easy to swap out the old ones. Thanks!
Took the time to do a complete tune up of the drive. I was amazed at how much wear there was on the shafts.
Wobbler
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It would be helpful if you would post some suggestions for installing the arms. For example, should we put Loctite on the threads of the pedal shaft, and if so, what color? What are your suggestions for installing the bungie cord which keeps the pedal oriented? There are two little plastic parts included in the box; what are they for?
I agree. I wanted to get everything sent out as quickly as possible because I knew some people were getting antsy.
I haven't used loctite on mine and had no issues with them loosening. The little plastic pieces are for the bungee system for the pedals.
If you have any questions please ask.
Thanks,
~Bill
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Got mine some time back. Been busy. Thanks!
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Did I understand correctly that one could put bicycle pedals on the arms?
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Did I understand correctly that one could put bicycle pedals on the arms?
Yes any standard 9/16 bicycle pedal will thread directly to the arms. Bicycle pedals come in two different sizes.
1/2" and 9/16". The 1/2" pedals are for kids bikes and BMX. All other bikes take 9/16" threads. I went into a local shop and asked if they had any cheap used plastic pedals from when someone upgraded to nicer pedals. Every shop I went to had a bucket to pick through and most were $5 a set.
I really like the bike pedals because I think they hold your boot a little better than the smooth hobie pedals.
Enjoy.
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long shot but don`t suppose someone has a set they can sell or maybe make another run of these ???
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long shot but don`t suppose someone has a set they can sell or maybe make another run of these ???
I have a new set some place. Not sure I want to sell them though.
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long shot but don`t suppose someone has a set they can sell or maybe make another run of these ???
I have a set I will sell. I'll shoot you a PM.
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long shot but don`t suppose someone has a set they can sell or maybe make another run of these ???
I found an extra set of two when cleaning out the garage. Let me know if you want them.
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pm sent fungunnin thanks noah, uplandsandpiper
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They are well worth the money! Got mine a few years ago and they've been going strong!
Fred "True" Trujillo