NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Don't Ask Me How I Know => Topic started by: crabbycabby on September 16, 2014, 03:28:39 PM
-
I've lost several larger fish due to knots breaking at my dropper loop while jigging for bottom fish. I like running 3 hooks - one large swimbait for lings/cabs, and two shrimp fly/squid for blacks. Is the dropper loop the standard knot you guys use for this, and any trouble with line breaks on large fish? At 1st I thought I had a bad spool of leader, but this is my 2nd spool with same problem. 1st was 25# fluorocarbon and 2nd spool is 25# mono.
I've considered going with 3 way swivels - but that's a lot of gear to snag. And I certainly would not rule out my lack of finesse as the cause.
-
do you lube your knot before tightening? It's important not to get friction or strain on the line when tying that knot. Consider going up to 30lb? You could also consider tying Surgeon Knot loops instead of the Dropper Loop -- maybe you strain the line just by the way you tighten it. Here's an alternate to your dropper setup: Used for Pompano www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrI7Mha86bM Good Luck.
-
I personally prefer double over hand knots aka slip knots. I have never had one come out I have broke them but never had them untied. Are you wetting the mono before pulling it tight believe it or not the knot can produce enough heat to compromise the line just my $0.02
-
I hate dropper loops, no matter what kind. Whenever I uses them, and they do have their place, I work it like I'm using line that is 1/2 the breaking strength. So I fish 40 pounds like like it is 20.
-Allen
-
I like using 80 and 130 pound leader for bottom fish dropper loops .... When I'm targeting halibut I step up 200-400 pound mono
-
+1 on the higher test for dropper loops.
I use 20# mono for my main line, and minimum 50# mono for droppers, and upwards of 100#. Not only does this thicker mono bring the line strength closer to remaining as strong as the 20# main, it is also stiffer than the main and doesn't get as tangled up when not loaded with weight.
-
It is that reason that made me stop using dropper loops all together and only use a jig instead of a jig and one or two dropper loops. I found it was easier to just catch fish one at a time than deal with losing my entire setup because my dropper loop hook snagged up.
-
I use a dropper loop almost exclusively when bottom fishing to keep my hook out of the rocks but also use a surgeons knot and heavy mono (I like 40 lb)...I've caught some pretty big fish off them and never lost one to a failed knot but I check my rig often to ensure it's not getting nicked up.
Here's a video I made showing my setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8EQG_QYqRs
-
Great video!
-
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like I'll be dialing up the poundage and giving the surgeons knot a go. Might even consider running two rods, one rigged for blacks when the FF is marking them, and one for lings/cab with just a jig when all I see on the FF are rocks.
-
+1 on the higher test for dropper loops.
I use 20# mono for my main line, and minimum 50# mono for droppers, and upwards of 100#. Not only does this thicker mono bring the line strength closer to remaining as strong as the 20# main, it is also stiffer than the main and doesn't get as tangled up when not loaded with weight.
+2. I run 50# mono leader on all my setups now (with 30# mainline and a 20# "weak link" at the top of the leader). If I have dropper loops on them I treat them like 20#. I did some tests in my living room one night, and they were not scientific, but when pressure was applied quickly I felt that all dropper loop styles (I tested traditional, overhand, and kiwi-style) broke at about half strength. They are significantly stronger if pressure is applied gently (this is how most tests are conducted, but not how most fish fight).
I'll throw this out, though, similarly to rawkfish's comment: why bother with the droppers? Do you really hook up double that often? I rarely use my dropper rigs anymore as I catch plenty of rockfish with the same jigs I use for lingcod and cabezon. The exception for me are the kelp beds; if I'm dropping right beside kelp I've found the black rockfish like the shrimp flies or other small, shrimpy offerings better than the fat jigs. YMMV.
-
How in the world are u breaking off 50# mono from a kayak when you snag the reef? I run 40# and I have to put everything into it to break it off.
-
How in the world are u breaking off 50# mono from a kayak when you snag the reef? I run 40# and I have to put everything into it to break it off.
I paddle my boat , have you tried breaking it with your legs ? :banjo:
-
How in the world are u breaking off 50# mono from a kayak when you snag the reef? I run 40# and I have to put everything into it to break it off.
Me? See my comment - I run a 20# "weak link" stretch at the top of my leader. For my setup it's the perfect "I can pull it hard but I can break it off as needed" test. When I snag up on the reef I can usually get my jig back by going back over where I snagged. When I can't, 90% of the time my weak link breaks, and I pull up my mainline, loop a new pre-tied leader onto my swivel, and I'm fishing again in 2 minutes.
I consider myself a light gear fisherman compared to average in the salt, and so the 50# leader may seem like overkill. I've found that the target species are not leader-shy at all, and it makes a nice handle when lingcod swallow my jigs.
Edit: If anyone is curious, my general rockfish setup is, from jig to mainline:
jig/bait > clinch knot > 3 feet of 50lb. mono > albright knot > 1 foot of 20lb. mono > surgeon's loop > heavy stainless swivel > surgeon's loop > 30# braid mainline
-
Has anyone tried the "long liners" knot to make droppers instead of loops?
Also, what's the secret on keeping double droppers from tangling around each other or the mainstem of the leader? Have tried more distance between the legs and also shortening one leg but still get wrapped up. Even tried varying the rate of drop on the way down and that didn't work too well either.
-
Has anyone tried the "long liners" knot to make droppers instead of loops?
Also, what's the secret on keeping double droppers from tangling around each other or the mainstem of the leader? Have tried more distance between the legs and also shortening one leg but still get wrapped up. Even tried varying the rate of drop on the way down and that didn't work too well either.
I haven't tried that knot.
I haven't had too much trouble with tangles on my double-droppers. I usually tie the loops with nothing on them, then slip the shrimp flies, etc. onto the loop, so it's just pressure keeping them on, but it makes them stick out from the leader pretty good. This is with fairly stiff 50lb. mono. For finesse applications I use 10lb. flouro and I use palomar knots, which holds the hook close to the leader.
-
I tried experimenting with the Prusik knot a few years ago in my off season, but never got around to actually using it on the water. If I remember correctly (a search here might yield something), mono to mono seamed to work, but braid to anything was too slick.
The idea was that I could make up a handful off pre-tied loops of line that could be added to my main line in the form of a Prusik knot at any time, a hook added to this portable loop, and adjusted easily up or down my line as needed. For the most part the harder it is pulled on, the harder it gripped where it was located on the mainline. If it slipped, it would just slide down to the main jig at the end of the line.
On the flip side.....I too, rarely use anything more than one rig per rod at a time anymore. Mostly because I am not in a big hurry to catch a limit of fish. With my past dropper loop setups, I don't remember ever having a one fail on me as I use less drag and thumb the spool when yarding up a big fish.
With that said, I am fully on board with Ndogg and Bluewrx02, and really like the Barbie poles for all bottom fish in 60 feet of water or less (mostly due to spool capacity). Bluewrx02 pulled in a 35" (14 lb) Lingcod on his Barbie pole,and I a 34.5" (14 lb ) Lingcod on my Tinkerbell pole up at Hobuck last week. Then proceeded to yard in several other big fish of different denominations each day we were out there.
-
I'm new to the group, so forgive me if I just don't get it, but is the Barbie pole thing an inside joke or personal challenge or something? Either way, I think it's awesome.
-
Barbie poles are a PNW secret wepaon. Most old salts dont leave home without them.
-
I'm new to the group, so forgive me if I just don't get it, but is the Barbie pole thing an inside joke or personal challenge or something? Either way, I think it's awesome.
It is a sub-category at the Oregon Rockfish Classic (ORC). Biggest fish caught on a kiddie pole won the pot of money kicked in by the entrants. Some have not only won that prize but have placed highly in the regular competition with the same fish.
-
This year, the craze is the Princess rod. They were sold out when I went to get one.
-
It is that reason that made me stop using dropper loops all together and only use a jig instead of a jig and one or two dropper loops. I found it was easier to just catch fish one at a time than deal with losing my entire setup because my dropper loop hook snagged up.
+1
better to big or go home...
Ha. Plus I bring an extra rod for smaller jig rigs.
-
Princess rod?
I use a double surgeons knot for two hook setups - no jigs - and make the working end the end closest to the pole (makes a "Y" shape). Keeping the working end pointing up seems to keep the second hook from tangling with the leader when casting. Not sure it would be any help if I used jig heads, but it works well with hook and bait.
Berkley makes a three way swivel that's T-shaped instead of the typical Y-shape. Only used them on white bass runs but they tangled a lot less when tossing light two-jig rigs a long ways, and the T-shape slipped through weeds much better than the Y-shape.
Princess rod? I can't keep up...
-
Princess rod?
Princess rod? I can't keep up...
I'm just jigging your hook, Kevin! There's no such thing as a "princess" rod, but with all the merchandising that has come along with the movie "Frozen"..oh wait, lookie here: 'http://www.amazon.com/Shakespeare-Princess-Lighted-2-Feet-6-Inch/dp/B003D5VN3C (am I allowed to link to amazon? :police:)
Good Luck with the ORC and some good strong knots!
-
I'm new to the group, so forgive me if I just don't get it, but is the Barbie pole thing an inside joke or personal challenge or something? Either way, I think it's awesome.
No, seriously! These little rods make it a freaking blast to catch anything on them.
They actually have just enough backbone to yard up a big ling, cabby and any rockfish.
It's easy enough to carry a few spares, as they do have some weaknesses here and there.
So, just peel off the factory 2lb mono and spool up with 15-30# braid. Tie on a single lure of anything from 1/8th ounce to a full 8 ounces. Jig away!
They can even cast pretty dang far too!
The biggest bonuses is that they can be stored below deck very easily for surf launches, and they are usually under $20, so carrying a few is not an issue.
-
I'm just jigging your hook, Kevin! There's no such thing as a "princess" rod, but with all the merchandising that has come along with the movie "Frozen"..oh wait, lookie here: 'http://www.amazon.com/Shakespeare-Princess-Lighted-2-Feet-6-Inch/dp/B003D5VN3C (am I allowed to link to amazon? :police:)
Good Luck with the ORC and some good strong knots!
Now that's a rod!
-
Now here is a successful Barbie Pole....... ;D
-
No ORC category for a Spiderman kit? They're under $10...