NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Events => Topic started by: craig on June 18, 2018, 09:09:57 PM
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We understand that a lot of folks are anxiously awaiting an announcement about how to sign up and pay for the ORC. Well here is what is happening, and we apologize to those who may be unhappy about it. We are having an issue with a way to collect money. The new tax laws which were approved last year, and take affect this year, have put a major kink in the process.
In the past a planner, who was kind enough to collect the thousands of dollars in entry fees via a personal Paypal account, would collect the money, claim it on taxes (that amount will get noticed by the IRS), then donated that exact same amount (minus insurance fees) to HOW and Neighbors for Kids. Essentially for tax purposes, it was a zero sum gain for that person.
Now, in 2018, if one of us were to collect $4000 (for example) and claim it, that person can't write it off when it is donated due to the increase in standard deduction (Apparently none of us are rich enough to itemize under the new law). Then come April 15, they would have to cough up roughly $800 more out of their pocket to pay their increased tax liability. This was not realized until recently, and the person that collected the money for the 2018 AOTY is going to feel it next April. Neither Brian nor I want to take on that tax liability and we hope you understand. If we had sponsor running it, like we did a couple years ago, they could be the collecting entity and provide the insurance. However, many people did not like the fact that the ORC had moved away from being a community run event and therefore it was given back to the community.
So, this year the plan is to just have an ORC "meet-up" like some folks do up in Hobuck, and other places. If people want to put a pot of money together and have a competition, they can.
We also had a recent change in how fundraising is allowed with one of the charities that provided us the "tax deductible" forms to give to sponsors that donated goods. Therefore, without that in hand, we did not attempt to beat down the doors of sponsors. This event will be a get-together for fun, good fishing, and camaraderie. And since there is no one officially in charge, no insurance, and you are basically doing what you would do any other weekend - there are no physical fishing boundaries. You are responsible for yourself. We can start a sign-up on another page for those still interested.
Again, our apologies. We still hope to see a lot of folks there, and we can still use the facilities at Chinook Bend for a potluck afterwards.
Sincerely,
Brian and Craig
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Thank you for clearing it up.
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Awesome!
Thanks for bringing these details to light, as I completely understand the position you and Brian would be putting yourselves in tax wise all for the ORC.
Stupid tax laws have to make everything so complicated.
Lets make a go at refreshing the non official ORC this year and see how it goes.
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Just my $0.02 but each guy could donate direct to HOW PDX and show ya the receipt, won’t help with prizes as my tournament has been seeing the sponsor drop off as well.
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"However, many people did not like the fact that the ORC had moved away from being a community run event and therefore it was given back to the community."
With all due respect, that sounds more like personal perception than fact. From my point of view, the criticism a couple years ago had more to do with transparency & inclusion in decision making than who was running the event. I saw the same problem this year. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that. PM or email me if you want my perception in more detail.
Paul
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Glad to see that communication finally came out. A bummer that the event is being canceled though- I completely understand the reasoning. Hopefully we get a good turn out to make some side wagers and still have a great time. I will be there Thursday- Sunday still. Most likely there will be others who already paid for there accommodations, like myself.
Has anyone looked into a non profit status-501(c)(3) which has a designation for charitable sports competition? I would be happy to assist as some of my work as an accountant deals with tax and i am comfortable dealing with the paperwork. And i am comfortable being a hammer to gather sponsors :).
I am looking forward to this year but will definitely miss the feeling of competition like in years past. Craig and Brian, would you be open to getting other people involved in the planning of the tournament to take the burden off the two of you in future years? This is something i would personally like to be involved in and feel like with a team of people we could get this back up and running next year.
For a 501(c)(3) we would need to fill out an Article of Incorporation with the State of Oregon($100 processing fee). If we file as an S-corp it could be free, Since the tourney is less than 50K a year we would qualify for the form 1023EZ ($275) which is easier and cheaper than the 1023($600). I think we could get this set up with minimal costs($375-400). These fees are tax deductible and competition fees could could offset the fees of startup. This 501(c)(3) designation could be used for smaller tourneys throughout the year as well if we set it up properly and all contributions were less than 50K.
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I'll be there for the experience if nothing else, see ya there.
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Just my $0.02 but each guy could donate direct to HOW PDX and show ya the receipt, won’t help with prizes as my tournament has been seeing the sponsor drop off as well.
Did you provide the sponsors with tax deductable forms? Or were they giving free gear without one?
Zach
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I'm surprised And disappointed with this announcement.
A "meet up" is very different from a fishing tournament as far as inclusion of everyone that shares the kayak fishing passion and enjoys friendly competition. Sure the camaraderie is there for both - at least for the people that are included in the meet-up invite or for those that choose to participate/volunteer for the tournament aspect (in my opinion, you get out what you put in).
ORC isn't like any other NWKA event. Certainly not like a Hobuck "meet-up" (you're dreaming if you think Hobuck is an inclusive meetup that is open for anyone to attend).
The primary reason I like the "organized events" of NWKA is that there is an openness and inclusion in a shared sport. NWKA is also a great community to meet like minded kayak community members and is an opportunity to meet new friends and get together in more exclusive smaller groups (like hobuck). The events tend to and need to have leadership and decent organization and communication. I recognize that takes a LOT of work. Doesn't sound like ORC will fit that bill anymore for being an NWKA event- and it will return to a smaller exclusive "meet up" for only those that are in the know.
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ORC isn't like any other NWKA event. Certainly not like a Hobuck "meet-up" (you're dreaming if you think Hobuck is an inclusive meetup that is open for anyone to attend).
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I recognize that takes a LOT of work. Doesn't sound like ORC will fit that bill anymore for being an NWKA event- and it will return to a smaller exclusive "meet up" for only those that are in the know.
I dont think that this is the end of the ORC tournament. We could easily all meet up at the campground and have an unofficial tournament for this year. WE can all put it 20 bucks into the pot Friday night and fish Saturday. We can use the same format as last year. Instead of 80 competitors we may have only 15-30.
We can then work on getting competitions up for 2019. I think ther eis just paper work we need to file to cover all future tourneys. I am looking into that now.
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Thanks Zach,
I would be very greatful for any help for next year. At this point I no longer want to do this “under the radar” and would prefer to be a legitimate entity set up with the state. Lack of legitimacy is starting to affect our ability to get sponsors, insurance, tax issues, etc...
Brian
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Thanks Zach,
I would be very greatful for any help for next year. At this point I no longer want to do this “under the radar” and would prefer to be a legitimate entity set up with the state. Lack of legitimacy is starting to affect our ability to get sponsors, insurance, tax issues, etc...
Brian
We need to set up a small board of directors and bylaws per Oregon law haha. Want to meet over beers and create some bylaws. I will record the minutes and bylaws and submit for filing.
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Just my $0.02 but each guy could donate direct to HOW PDX and show ya the receipt, won’t help with prizes as my tournament has been seeing the sponsor drop off as well.
Did you provide the sponsors with tax deductable forms? Or were they giving free gear without one?
Zach
I can’t give tax forms I’m a third party event that benefits HOW... so the few companies that did send me gear.... DID IT FOR THE VETERANS.... not the write off so keep that in mind when shopping for Lancer Jigs, Pro Cure scents, Stealth Rod Holders, Kershaw Knives, The fish Grippers, Next Adventure, Tillamook Sporting Goods,Cannon Beach Artz(Surforegon if you want a custom bone necklace) and the Garibaldi Cannery.... (Plug over) ;D
Just a little heads up next year’s event will have a split 50/50 for the funds raised and the other charity WILL allow the write off donation receipts ( wish someone would have told me there split charity raisers we’re doing that) when I asked how others were getting the donations NONE of them mentioned the Non-HOW charity was writing letters for the prizes? Just saying.... could have told me!
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The ORC started out as bunch of guys, most of whom only knew each other from the NWKA website, getting together for some ocean fishing. That 1st year we called it the Oregon Coast Derby. It was a lot of work to identify a venue, campground etc. but it was a labor of love.
As time went by, the event grew and so did member participation in the planning and execution. It took a lot of hard work and for the years that I ran the event, I could always find someone willing to step up and help shoulder the load. It was the purest manifestation of what NWKA is.
Well, this year, the tax laws are forcing us to take a huge step backward. But, that doesn't have to be a bad thing. It simply presents us with an opportunity to draw on the hearts, backs and minds of our NWKA members to create the solutions needed to continue this 10 year old tradition.
Here are some Ideas/Opportunities:
- Zach it sounds like you've already invested a bit of energy into figuring out how to create a non-profit LLC. If you have the time, this could be instrumental in running future NWKA events (both ORC and others).
- Brian/Allen - Maybe we should set up a planning board in the forum where members can coordinate contest planning efforts.
- I'd like to suggest that anybody who wants to compete, show up at camp or the ramp with a crisp $50 bill. We can throw the money in a pot and split it up as a cash payout for biggest fish/bag etc. Somebody want to step up to coordinate this?
- We can do a collection or raffle to benefit either HOW or the Neighbors for Kids program in Depoe Bay.
What do you guys think?
-Mark-
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We can then work on getting competitions up for 2019. I think ther eis just paper work we need to file to cover all future tourneys. I am looking into that now.
Good on you, Zach!
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I'm surprised And disappointed with this announcement.
A "meet up" is very different from a fishing tournament as far as inclusion of everyone that shares the kayak fishing passion and enjoys friendly competition. Sure the camaraderie is there for both - at least for the people that are included in the meet-up invite or for those that choose to participate/volunteer for the tournament aspect (in my opinion, you get out what you put in).
ORC isn't like any other NWKA event. Certainly not like a Hobuck "meet-up" (you're dreaming if you think Hobuck is an inclusive meetup that is open for anyone to attend).
The primary reason I like the "organized events" of NWKA is that there is an openness and inclusion in a shared sport. NWKA is also a great community to meet like minded kayak community members and is an opportunity to meet new friends and get together in more exclusive smaller groups (like hobuck). The events tend to and need to have leadership and decent organization and communication. I recognize that takes a LOT of work. Doesn't sound like ORC will fit that bill anymore for being an NWKA event- and it will return to a smaller exclusive "meet up" for only those that are in the know.
Barb, the word Hobuck has been thrown around here like a bad apple, but in reality it's not "Hobuck" itself that gives the bad taste to some. Halibut fishing at Hobuck is the issue, not Hobuck.
If you ever make it up to Hobuck for any other gathering, you will see why Craig used it as a reference. If you think the past years of ORC throws down a good Potluck, then you haven't seen anything yet. Nothing is organized at all, it is laid back and things just fall into place. Each and every time I've been to Hobuck I get to meet new faces, and even better, get to sample some really good food.
Now I'm not saying ORC and Hobuck are ever going to be something equal to each other, as I would be silly trying to do so. Hobuck is a LONG drive for sure, but has A LOT to offer a person that needs something more relaxing than what the tournament style ORC has been. Has a more laid back approach, and lots of sitting around camp fires jaw jacking, making some great food, sharing what you make with each other. It seems like there is non stop camaraderie amongst any and all attending, by sharing beach wheels, swapping parts between kayaks, loaning gear after things break, fixing things for each other as things get broken, running into town for stuff like ice, beer, fingernail clippers, etc for anyone. Nobody is outcasted like it is assumed so.
I think the simple gathering of like minded folks getting together for a weekend of fishing at Depoe Bay (or surrounding areas) rather than a full on tournament would give many of the newbies and shyer folks a chance to wander through camp and meet up with and chat with anyone that has a kayak visible at their camp. The stress of trying to make camp with strangers with the lingering question of what time is everyone launching, who knows where to fish, or what lures will be best for a chance to win the tourney would be set aside to more open communication, as well as chillaxing with some new friends around campfires.
After a refresher with simpler plans, maybe the ORC tourney will be revived and come back raging next year with a solid plan that even the tax man can't hinder.
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Here are some Ideas/Opportunities:
- Zach it sounds like you've already invested a bit of energy into figuring out how to create a non-profit LLC. If you have the time, this could be instrumental in running future NWKA events (both ORC and others).
- Brian/Allen - Maybe we should set up a planning board in the forum where members can coordinate contest planning efforts.
- I'd like to suggest that anybody who wants to compete, show up at camp or the ramp with a crisp $50 bill. We can throw the money in a pot and split it up as a cash payout for biggest fish/bag etc. Somebody want to step up to coordinate this?
- We can do a collection or raffle to benefit either HOW or the Neighbors for Kids program in Depoe Bay.
What do you guys think?
-Mark-
Great ideas Mark. I have been looking into the tax issue all morning. I am wanting to set up an umbrella org that could cover multiple tournaments each year. It will take me a few months and some sidejobs to pay for the fees- but i will look on getting that accomplished.
I would be happy to help coordinate a sidepot for this year. I will be at Chinnook Bend from Thursday-Sunday. We could collect the sidepot entries friday night. Must be back at camp at 3 to weight the fish?
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We can then work on getting competitions up for 2019. I think ther eis just paper work we need to file to cover all future tourneys. I am looking into that now.
Good on you, Zach!
Yes, that is an awesome way to step up and provide a solution!
Although I'm not in Oregon, or even within reasonable driving distance or Portland, I'm happy to help out with things for 2019. Depending on how this all shakes out it may well impact the organization of the taco feed/potluck so I'll want to be involved for the sake of that aspect.
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We can then work on getting competitions up for 2019. I think there is just paper work we need to file to cover all future tourneys. I am looking into that now.
Good on you, Zach!
Yes, that is an awesome way to step up and provide a solution!
Although I'm not in Oregon, or even within reasonable driving distance or Portland, I'm happy to help out with things for 2019. Depending on how this all shakes out it may well impact the organization of the taco feed/potluck so I'll want to be involved for the sake of that aspect.
Your potlucks are legendary! You will be missed this year. Hope you can make it next year.
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We can then work on getting competitions up for 2019. I think there is just paper work we need to file to cover all future tourneys. I am looking into that now.
Good on you, Zach!
Yes, that is an awesome way to step up and provide a solution!
Although I'm not in Oregon, or even within reasonable driving distance or Portland, I'm happy to help out with things for 2019. Depending on how this all shakes out it may well impact the organization of the taco feed/potluck so I'll want to be involved for the sake of that aspect.
Your potlucks are legendary! You will be missed this year. Hope you can make it next year.
It's killing me not to go to Depoe Bay, but we're really struggling to pay for a lot of things that are also really important to us, and something had to give. I've chosen to give up things for myself so my kids can get to do some fun stuff.
Should be in a much better position next year though. Got several hooks in the water to get into a better work situation.
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Personally I'm stoked that this event can go back to what it was. In my view it just isn't reasonable to ask a few people to coordinate and bear the burdens of the event that the ORC has become.
One thing that always gets marginalized in the discussion about this event is liability. I know many will roll their eyes at me bringing this up again but it cannot be said enough. Almost every single year this event has seen a near miss incident which, thank the lucky stars, wasn't worse, but easily could have been. The reality is that the ocean in our region is a cold, unforgiving temptress and in my opinion, is no place for a massive event that welcomes so many participants who lack the requisite experience to navigate it safely. Whenever ANY kind of organization is conducted for an event, no matter how informal, liability becomes a concern. The question then becomes how much liability should the planner(s) be willing to accept? A couple dozen people doing a MBF during a camping and fishing trip is a big difference from a sponsored tournament with 130 competitors. And insurance doesn't prevent lawsuits from happening. It only serves as a POTENTIAL, not guaranteed protection in the event that a lawsuit arises. But I should mention that the fact that this must be considered is a natural consequence of our community growing, which is a good thing.
So I say let's all go camping and do some fishing while we're at it. Additional plans beyond that are best made around a campfire, not put in writing on a public forum, if you catch my drift.
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I see you, Langston. Don't even think about it!! ::)
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As anybody who has fished with me can attest, I am not a competitive fisherman. I attend tournaments for the camaraderie, so I am very happy with showing up Saturday and fishing for fun with friends (old, new and yet to be) and having a potluck afterwards. In fact, if that discourages the few people who are interested only in prizes, I will consider it am improvement. The friendships that started from attending NWKA activities are priceless to me.
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The good news is we can take some pressure off of the ramp by launching at Fogarty Creek .
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Here are some Ideas/Opportunities:
- Zach it sounds like you've already invested a bit of energy into figuring out how to create a non-profit LLC. If you have the time, this could be instrumental in running future NWKA events (both ORC and others).
- Brian/Allen - Maybe we should set up a planning board in the forum where members can coordinate contest planning efforts.
- I'd like to suggest that anybody who wants to compete, show up at camp or the ramp with a crisp $50 bill. We can throw the money in a pot and split it up as a cash payout for biggest fish/bag etc. Somebody want to step up to coordinate this?
- We can do a collection or raffle to benefit either HOW or the Neighbors for Kids program in Depoe Bay.
What do you guys think?
-Mark-
Great ideas Mark. I have been looking into the tax issue all morning. I am wanting to set up an umbrella org that could cover multiple tournaments each year. It will take me a few months and some sidejobs to pay for the fees- but i will look on getting that accomplished.
I would be happy to help coordinate a sidepot for this year. I will be at Chinnook Bend from Thursday-Sunday. We could collect the sidepot entries friday night. Must be back at camp at 3 to weight the fish?
Great idea Zach. I like being incorporated. I will gladly help and even front the money if necessary. My biggest fear these last few years is someone I do not know showing up, getting hurt, and suing me. I can retire in 4 years if I want. But, not if I blew my savings on defending myself in a law suit. I work with a lot of lawyers. They all have told me I am stupid for opening myself up for the liability, but I rolled the dice because I enjoy the event and the people.
The good news is we can take some pressure off of the ramp by launching at Fogarty Creek .
Shhhhhhhh! That was my plan.
I'm surprised And disappointed with this announcement.
A "meet up" is very different from a fishing tournament as far as inclusion of everyone that shares the kayak fishing passion and enjoys friendly competition. Sure the camaraderie is there for both - at least for the people that are included in the meet-up invite or for those that choose to participate/volunteer for the tournament aspect (in my opinion, you get out what you put in).
ORC isn't like any other NWKA event. Certainly not like a Hobuck "meet-up" (you're dreaming if you think Hobuck is an inclusive meetup that is open for anyone to attend).
The primary reason I like the "organized events" of NWKA is that there is an openness and inclusion in a shared sport. NWKA is also a great community to meet like minded kayak community members and is an opportunity to meet new friends and get together in more exclusive smaller groups (like hobuck). The events tend to and need to have leadership and decent organization and communication. I recognize that takes a LOT of work. Doesn't sound like ORC will fit that bill anymore for being an NWKA event- and it will return to a smaller exclusive "meet up" for only those that are in the know.
Barb, in no way is their any intention of making the ORC exclusive. I wish there was a larger facility to handle the traffic so we could allow more participants.
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Thank you for the updates Craig. I have a lot of respect for you guys taking time out of your lives to put something like ORC together for so many others to enjoy. Judging from the replies on this thread, it sounds like a path is being cleared to make next year's ORC one for the ages!
Despite ORC not being a 'tournament' this year, I still plan on fishing on July 7th. Instead of targeting bottomfish, I'll likely troll around for coho and may try for inshore Pac halibut if the conditions are conducive for it. Would be cool to have a crew trolling or drifting for halibut. I also plan on visiting the campground and hanging with some of NWKA's finest.
At least I don't have to worry about being de-throned as ORC champ for another year :laugh:.
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As anybody who has fished with me can attest, I am not a competitive fisherman. I attend tournaments for the camaraderie, so I am very happy with showing up Saturday and fishing for fun with friends (old, new and yet to be) and having a potluck afterwards. In fact, if that discourages the few people who are interested only in prizes, I will consider it am improvement. The friendships that started from attending NWKA activities are priceless to me.
Dilly Dilly!! :headbang:
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Personally I'm stoked that this event can go back to what it was. In my view it just isn't reasonable to ask a few people to coordinate and bear the burdens of the event that the ORC has become.
One thing that always gets marginalized in the discussion about this event is liability. I know many will roll their eyes at me bringing this up again but it cannot be said enough. Almost every single year this event has seen a near miss incident which, thank the lucky stars, wasn't worse, but easily could have been. The reality is that the ocean in our region is a cold, unforgiving temptress and in my opinion, is no place for a massive event that welcomes so many participants who lack the requisite experience to navigate it safely. Whenever ANY kind of organization is conducted for an event, no matter how informal, liability becomes a concern. The question then becomes how much liability should the planner(s) be willing to accept? A couple dozen people doing a MBF during a camping and fishing trip is a big difference from a sponsored tournament with 130 competitors. And insurance doesn't prevent lawsuits from happening. It only serves as a POTENTIAL, not guaranteed protection in the event that a lawsuit arises. But I should mention that the fact that this must be considered is a natural consequence of our community growing, which is a good thing.
So I say let's all go camping and do some fishing while we're at it. Additional plans beyond that are best made around a campfire, not put in writing on a public forum, if you catch my drift.
As accurate as you are with all that, I would say that you must "work" for a lawyer or something? ;)
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I will absolutely be there to fish on the 7th, probably the 6th too.
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Personally I'm stoked that this event can go back to what it was. In my view it just isn't reasonable to ask a few people to coordinate and bear the burdens of the event that the ORC has become.
One thing that always gets marginalized in the discussion about this event is liability. I know many will roll their eyes at me bringing this up again but it cannot be said enough. Almost every single year this event has seen a near miss incident which, thank the lucky stars, wasn't worse, but easily could have been. The reality is that the ocean in our region is a cold, unforgiving temptress and in my opinion, is no place for a massive event that welcomes so many participants who lack the requisite experience to navigate it safely. Whenever ANY kind of organization is conducted for an event, no matter how informal, liability becomes a concern. The question then becomes how much liability should the planner(s) be willing to accept? A couple dozen people doing a MBF during a camping and fishing trip is a big difference from a sponsored tournament with 130 competitors. And insurance doesn't prevent lawsuits from happening. It only serves as a POTENTIAL, not guaranteed protection in the event that a lawsuit arises. But I should mention that the fact that this must be considered is a natural consequence of our community growing, which is a good thing.
So I say let's all go camping and do some fishing while we're at it. Additional plans beyond that are best made around a campfire, not put in writing on a public forum, if you catch my drift.
As accurate as you are with all that, I would say that you must "work" for a lawyer or something? ;)
Close enough. :D
Also, I don't see why we couldn't coordinate a potluck.
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I'm actually more stoked to attend now, than before. Fishing and chilling with like minded people is what it's all about. The essence of the ORC lives on!
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Also, I don't see why I couldn't coordinate a potluck.
I agree. Own it like a boss!
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Also, I don't see why I couldn't coordinate a potluck.
I agree. Own it like a boss!
Just wait until someone gets food poisoning, who is liable in this case? Did I open a can of worms?
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Anyone want to bring some Barbie rods for friendly competition?
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Hey everyone,
CoastalChief has now turned into AuroraChief (lol). I have just moved from Depoe and now live in Canby. I am super bummed about the news. Regardless of what goes on Ill be there for the classic. I learned how to fish the ocean from people here on this site and event.
I am more than willing to help in anyway that I can for the future. I have a lot of local contacts in the DB are and can call upon them anytime. Now... I need help fishin the river!!
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It wouldn't be horribly complicated to have each competitor send a screenshot of the receipt for an online donation to HOW or Neighbors For Kids (their choice.) That acts as the registration, then everyone pays a crisp $5 (or $10 can't recall) bill at registration for the insurance. It's really not THAT complicated in the grand scheme of things.
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Hey everyone,
CoastalChief has now turned into AuroraChief (lol). I have just moved from Depoe and now live in Canby. I am super bummed about the news. Regardless of what goes on Ill be there for the classic. I learned how to fish the ocean from people here on this site and event.
I am more than willing to help in anyway that I can for the future. I have a lot of local contacts in the DB are and can call upon them anytime. Now... I need help fishin the river!!
Can you reach back out to them and let them know there will be a lot of us? Also, if we could use the parking lot above as overflow, that would be great. Thanks.
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Also, I don't see why I couldn't coordinate a potluck.
I agree. Own it like a boss!
If you want some assistance with organization let me know.
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We check into our timeshare at Worldmark on Thursday, hoping the ocean cooperates fully. I really want to catch a number of species, halibut, Chinook, silver, ling etc. So hopefully get a lot of time on the water in good conditions. I would also love to meet up with more yakkers. Last year was my 1st ORC, and I really enjoyed it, so not much to go off of. I do hope the ORC can continue to be a event.
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Anyone want to bring some Barbie rods for friendly competition?
Last 2 ORCs I only fished with barbie poles.
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The good news is we can take some pressure off of the ramp by launching at Fogarty Creek .
I was thinking of bringing the AI and sailing and finding some flat fish.
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What is launch time Saturday morning?
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What is launch time Saturday morning?
Well since this is just a bunch of people meeting up, I would say whenever you want.
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It's all depth halibut fishing on Friday and Saturday, so the boat launch will be packed. This happened several years ago and there wasn't any parking spaces after 4:30am. There were rigs with boat trailers parked on the access road all the way to 101 by 5:00am.
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Oi! Hopefully folks will carpool. It is a good thing we do not have 120 people coming.
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Best of luck to everyone today, be safe.
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Here are some Ideas/Opportunities:
- Zach it sounds like you've already invested a bit of energy into figuring out how to create a non-profit LLC. If you have the time, this could be instrumental in running future NWKA events (both ORC and others).
- Brian/Allen - Maybe we should set up a planning board in the forum where members can coordinate contest planning efforts.
- I'd like to suggest that anybody who wants to compete, show up at camp or the ramp with a crisp $50 bill. We can throw the money in a pot and split it up as a cash payout for biggest fish/bag etc. Somebody want to step up to coordinate this?
- We can do a collection or raffle to benefit either HOW or the Neighbors for Kids program in Depoe Bay.
What do you guys think?
-Mark-
Great ideas Mark. I have been looking into the tax issue all morning. I am wanting to set up an umbrella org that could cover multiple tournaments each year. It will take me a few months and some sidejobs to pay for the fees- but i will look on getting that accomplished.
I would be happy to help coordinate a sidepot for this year. I will be at Chinnook Bend from Thursday-Sunday. We could collect the sidepot entries friday night. Must be back at camp at 3 to weight the fish?
Wish I could've made the meetup, but was still on the road from SoCal. Looks like the weather cooperated. Who launched from Fogarty?
2019: From my somewhat limited experience, organizing as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit charitable organization will help with gaining sponsorships and allow for organizing multiple events. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/exemption-requirements-section-501c3-organizations
As for liability insurance, we'll need it. There's this for quotes: https://insurancefornonprofits.org/coverages/
Needless to say, this will probably take considerable advanced planning & some direction from members who've organized this event previously. I'm willing to attend organizational meetings & volunteer for a delegated duty as needed. Any lawyers out there with non-profit experience willing to advise?
https://www.doj.state.or.us/charitable-activities/laws-guides-for-charities/your-rights-roles-and-responsibilities-as-a-nonprofit-officer/
Your Personal Liability as a Member of a Nonprofit Board
To encourage citizens to serve as board members for charities, the law cloaks volunteer board members with qualified immunity. They cannot be sued for negligent acts. They may, however, be subject to lawsuits alleging that a loss was due to their gross negligence, or willful or fraudulent acts.
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I was the only one to launch from Fogarty. I went out with my 8 year old daughter in my tandem and it was probably the easiest beach launch and landing I've had in awhile. However, once we got out to Government Point the swell picked up a bit and my daughter started feeling queasy and we went back in.
Insurance isn't too much of a problem with the American Canoe Association (that's what I've used the past few years). It requires a bit of paperwork and enough volunteers to fill out the requisite safety roles.
Non-profit status might help with our issues. It might also mean a lot of extra paperwork and more restrictions on what we can and can't do. Hopefully someone can sort this out.
We've also had a couple offers from outside NWKA to help run the event. We tried this once with Next Adventure, but it went south. However, I still think it's the best option and alleviates a lot of the headaches with paperwork (taxes and insurance) on our part. I think the trick it to find a partner that will work closely with us and listen to our input.
Brian
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I was the only one to launch from Fogarty. I went out with my 8 year old daughter in my tandem and it was probably the easiest beach launch and landing I've had in awhile. However, once we got out to Government Point the swell picked up a bit and my daughter started feeling queasy and we went back in.
Insurance isn't too much of a problem with the American Canoe Association (that's what I've used the past few years). It requires a bit of paperwork and enough volunteers to fill out the requisite safety roles.
Non-profit status might help with our issues. It might also mean a lot of extra paperwork and more restrictions on what we can and can't do. Hopefully someone can sort this out.
We've also had a couple offers from outside NWKA to help run the event. We tried this once with Next Adventure, but it went south. However, I still think it's the best option and alleviates a lot of the headaches with paperwork (taxes and insurance) on our part. I think the trick it to find a partner that will work closely with us and listen to our input.
Brian
Bold for the biggest issue. The biggest complaint about NA, as I recall, was a perceived lack of transparency, and poor communication. I don't believe there was anything going on other than the NA guys being too swamped with other NA work to give ORC the attention many on here felt it deserved. Given the size of the event and the amount of money involved I think some of those complaints were warranted, though some were unreasonable.
I think that if we could get a more dedicated degree of attention it can work with NA or someone similar running ORC. What is probably needed if we go this route is to have a company like NA or ODP that is large enough to have at least 1 person that is dedicated to running such events. Having someone do it in their otherwise down time didn't work out all that well.
Short of that ORC should remain a volunteer run event, and that probably means a 501c3 organization. To alleviate the expense of maintaining a 501c3 I think adding $3 or $5 or $10 or whatever the appropriate amount is to registration fees for ORC, AOTY, TBKD, etc. would be appropriate.
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Chinook Bend Resort (CBR) was very excited to see us this year even though we didn't do the official ORC.
They also made it very clear that they love us, the tournament, the crowd of money it brings their way, and the salmon season kickoff that usually gets things rolling for them after someone in a kayak lands a salmon off their launch.
CBR got wind of the ORC not happening this year, and the are absolutely on board to be the "corporation" we need for the tax burden. They went on to say that they really want to help run the whole thing, but I made it clear that we tried that with NA and it flopped by letting NA run it without much of NWKA in the decision making process. CBR completely understands that this is a NWKA event and not a CBR event, so it would make sense if we (NWKA) played the big role in the planning and decision making.
It might be a good idea for those interested in putting together the next ORC, to meet up and go over this and other ideas while it's fresh in the mind. Including CBR might be a solid move.
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What, exactly, was the problem with NA? From an out of area conpetitor standpoint the NA run event was the best one. So I’m assuming it was some back of house behind the scene problem?
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I like a lot of things about CBR. What I'm not such a fan of is their price for the cheapest tent spots. 2017 it was closing in on $35/night after the ORC discount. Maybe that's the right amount given supply/demand dynamics, but it seems incredibly high for a super basic tent camping spot. It's certainly gotten to the point of impacting how long I stay when I do attend ORC. Max is 2 nights, and if I could figure out a reasonable way get away with just 1 night I would. If it was $20-25/night (I think Hobuck charges $25 with no discount) I might try to work 3 nights into my plans so I could get a solid 3 days of fishing in.
Anyway, if they're enthusiastic about helping with ORC I don't see much of a reason to not use that resource. Even if we don't ultimately need their corporation for tax purposes it seems like we should find a way for them to help out in a meaningful way.
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Maybe we can get them to negotiate lower ORC site prices?
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What, exactly, was the problem with NA? From an out of area conpetitor standpoint the NA run event was the best one. So I’m assuming it was some back of house behind the scene problem?
From a competitor standpoint, I don't know all the issues as I wasn't there. However, the following year I had a LOT of people very happy that I was back to running the taco feed as that was apparently a disappointment to quite a few people when NA ran it.
IIRC the main issue was complaints about transparency with the money (IIRC it took them a long time afterwards to make the donation to HOW and NFK, plus just lack of communication about how much money came in vs. out for expenses, etc). Plus other communication related issues.
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Chinook Bend would be a great resource but cannot offer us a non profit letter for donations. I still think long term getting our own NP status would help. It just costs roughly $850 to get that all set up and a lot of time and effort making sure it goes smoothly.
In regards to an outside company running it, I think it is a great idea. With our current model it is a lot of burden on a dew individuals to organize such an event. Having a brand behind us would also help with getting sponsors. I would like to see us work with a sponsor for future events. I also think adding a few more volunteers may help improve the event.
I second that amn open meeting for planning at a local pub would be a good idea.
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Chinook Bend would be a great resource but cannot offer us a non profit letter for donations. I still think long term getting our own NP status would help. It just costs roughly $850 to get that all set up and a lot of time and effort making sure it goes smoothly.
In regards to an outside company running it, I think it is a great idea. With our current model it is a lot of burden on a dew individuals to organize such an event. Having a brand behind us would also help with getting sponsors. I would like to see us work with a sponsor for future events. I also think adding a few more volunteers may help improve the event.
I second that amn open meeting for planning at a local pub would be a good idea.
$850/yr, or $850 to set it up, then something less yearly for maintenance?
Even if it's $850/yr if you assume, say, 200 cumulative registrations between ORC and AOTY and TBKD $4.25 added to registration fees would cover that expense. Round it up to $5, and I'd even be OK paying Zach the $150 left over as a fee for all the work involved (that would probably still be a lot less than minimum wage effectively).
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It is 850 as an initial start up fee and an additional 50-100 dollars the following years. to maintain the name and status.
I would not need any compensation i just want to make sure we have good events in the future. Each year i meet new people at the tournament and i also learn a lot of new tactics.
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What, exactly, was the problem with NA? From an out of area conpetitor standpoint the NA run event was the best one. So I’m assuming it was some back of house behind the scene problem?
From a competitor standpoint, I don't know all the issues as I wasn't there. However, the following year I had a LOT of people very happy that I was back to running the taco feed as that was apparently a disappointment to quite a few people when NA ran it.
IIRC the main issue was complaints about transparency with the money (IIRC it took them a long time afterwards to make the donation to HOW and NFK, plus just lack of communication about how much money came in vs. out for expenses, etc). Plus other communication related issues.
There were several issues that struck me as poor planning, lack of planning, or purely failed execution (each person may look at these differently than I do).
-Sponsor donated prizes were down due to them not wanting to use Jammers awesome list that he offered them up front. Less than a month out from the event, they finally wanted his list.
-The entry fee was bumped up to $50. NA said this covers launch fees, shuttle service fuel, safety boat fuel, food and drink (oil, fryers, plates, utensils, and non alcoholic drinks. Hmmm...read on.
-Launch time was set at 0600, and we could not launch until we were signed out. NA didn't show up until just after 0600, and still needed to get through the 50+ kayaker's lined up and waiting for their safety check out.
-The safety check out really pissed me off, as they didn't actually check people. Rather they had a number system and all was needed was to say something like I'm #14 and my buddy down at the launch is number #7 and we are ready to go. Buddy down at the launch is wearing shorts, T shirt and water shoes! Not the required attire that was listed in the rules. This put many of us in a sticky situation where if these IDIOTS that dress that way get knocked over and can't get back in and we are the closest to help them.
-The fish fry was a miss! Several folks including myself, asked NA if we could help with the fish fry well before the event. Was told "no need" as they have this under control. So, I left it at that. Well about 5pm on game day several non-NA staff (rather, NWKA volunteers) came up to my camp begging John and I to help out with the fish fry as NA was MIA. Didn't see that coming. :bs:
-Then the raised sponsor tally. The event was on July 11th. NA didn't post the financials until August 27th which is completely unnecessary to have it take that long. For example, that same year CBY had his AOTD event on August 22nd and had his results on August 25th (still ahead of ORC results). It was just Roy and Dude running it, and they had to leave early at the crack of dawn to go out of state for a day or so on top of that.
Did I miss anything? :icon_scratch:
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be/is? a dam shame to see the orc to be a thing of the past.
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Brain is failing me, did the Hobie Worlds qualifier and the NA event happen at the same ORC?
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Brain is failing me, did the Hobie Worlds qualifier and the NA event happen at the same ORC?
Nope.
Hobie Fishing Worlds Qualifier was 2014.
NA was 2015 .
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Who gets the $850 start-up fees? I've started two 501(c)(3) corporations - not in Oregon, for sure - and it cost $25 each. Holy cow! What's it cost to transfer an existing non-profit's corporate registration to Oregon?
If Next Adventure or anyone else wants to "run" ORC, couldn't NWKA Volunteers do the on-site grunt work to keep it running smoothly?
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Who gets the $850 start-up fees? I've started two 501(c)(3) corporations - not in Oregon, for sure - and it cost $25 each. Holy cow! What's it cost to transfer an existing non-profit's corporate registration to Oregon?
If Next Adventure or anyone else wants to "run" ORC, couldn't NWKA Volunteers do the on-site grunt work to keep it running smoothly?
I'm not sure about the fees for setting a nonprofit in Oregon. I've heard and seen various numbers from $50 to $1000+. I think it comes down to a range of choices between how much you are willing to navigate the complex requirements by yourself to save some money and hiring a law firm to do things for you.
As for having an outside group run ORC... I guess how that works would be up to them. I certainly would prefer the involvement of NWKA members. I think a companies insurance might dictate some of that.
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To set up a 501 c 3 in Oregon you need to file for your corporations name- cost approx=50. You also need to complete a 1023 or a 1023ez. Since we will donate less than 50,000 a year we would qualify for the 1023ez. This form has a 750 dollar filing fee(this may have been lowered to 400-500 as I heard talk that it would but have not followed up to check). If we were to donate more than 50,000 the cost doubles.
Please double check my amounts though through the IRS literature. I am an accountant by trade but I am no expert in tax and non profit- my focus has been on capital expenditures and government reports. However tax and government reports are pretty similar in terms of understanding what is required for filing . I have heard that someone may already have the paperwork ready to file so I am holding off on getting anything started or
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I won't check up on it Zach. I've filed non-profit taxes without a filing fee but the last time I did that was in a different century. Geez, life is expensive these days, even if you're a poor, penniless charity.
Brian, I agree that a corporate sponsorship is the way to go, but after reading INSAYN's remarks about how FUBAR it was with a sponsor, it seemed that NWKA members did most of the heavy lifting the day of the event anyway.
I'll hush now, thanks for the explanations...
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I was the only one to launch from Fogarty. I went out with my 8 year old daughter in my tandem and it was probably the easiest beach launch and landing I've had in awhile. However, once we got out to Government Point the swell picked up a bit and my daughter started feeling queasy and we went back in.
Insurance isn't too much of a problem with the American Canoe Association (that's what I've used the past few years). It requires a bit of paperwork and enough volunteers to fill out the requisite safety roles.
Non-profit status might help with our issues. It might also mean a lot of extra paperwork and more restrictions on what we can and can't do. Hopefully someone can sort this out.
We've also had a couple offers from outside NWKA to help run the event. We tried this once with Next Adventure, but it went south. However, I still think it's the best option and alleviates a lot of the headaches with paperwork (taxes and insurance) on our part. I think the trick it to find a partner that will work closely with us and listen to our input.
Brian
That sounds good to me. I'd like to help out in some way. Please let me know about any upcoming planning meetings.
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What, exactly, was the problem with NA? From an out of area conpetitor standpoint the NA run event was the best one. So I’m assuming it was some back of house behind the scene problem?
From a competitor standpoint, I don't know all the issues as I wasn't there. However, the following year I had a LOT of people very happy that I was back to running the taco feed as that was apparently a disappointment to quite a few people when NA ran it.
IIRC the main issue was complaints about transparency with the money (IIRC it took them a long time afterwards to make the donation to HOW and NFK, plus just lack of communication about how much money came in vs. out for expenses, etc). Plus other communication related issues.
+1
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What, exactly, was the problem with NA? From an out of area conpetitor standpoint the NA run event was the best one. So I’m assuming it was some back of house behind the scene problem?
From a competitor standpoint, I don't know all the issues as I wasn't there. However, the following year I had a LOT of people very happy that I was back to running the taco feed as that was apparently a disappointment to quite a few people when NA ran it.
IIRC the main issue was complaints about transparency with the money (IIRC it took them a long time afterwards to make the donation to HOW and NFK, plus just lack of communication about how much money came in vs. out for expenses, etc). Plus other communication related issues.
There were several issues that struck me as poor planning, lack of planning, or purely failed execution (each person may look at these differently than I do).
-Sponsor donated prizes were down due to them not wanting to use Jammers awesome list that he offered them up front. Less than a month out from the event, they finally wanted his list.
-The entry fee was bumped up to $50. NA said this covers launch fees, shuttle service fuel, safety boat fuel, food and drink (oil, fryers, plates, utensils, and non alcoholic drinks. Hmmm...read on.
-Launch time was set at 0600, and we could not launch until we were signed out. NA didn't show up until just after 0600, and still needed to get through the 50+ kayaker's lined up and waiting for their safety check out.
-The safety check out really pissed me off, as they didn't actually check people. Rather they had a number system and all was needed was to say something like I'm #14 and my buddy down at the launch is number #7 and we are ready to go. Buddy down at the launch is wearing shorts, T shirt and water shoes! Not the required attire that was listed in the rules. This put many of us in a sticky situation where if these IDIOTS that dress that way get knocked over and can't get back in and we are the closest to help them.
-The fish fry was a miss! Several folks including myself, asked NA if we could help with the fish fry well before the event. Was told "no need" as they have this under control. So, I left it at that. Well about 5pm on game day several non-NA staff (rather, NWKA volunteers) came up to my camp begging John and I to help out with the fish fry as NA was MIA. Didn't see that coming. :bs:
-Then the raised sponsor tally. The event was on July 11th. NA didn't post the financials until August 27th which is completely unnecessary to have it take that long. For example, that same year CBY had his AOTD event on August 22nd and had his results on August 25th (still ahead of ORC results). It was just Roy and Dude running it, and they had to leave early at the crack of dawn to go out of state for a day or so on top of that.
Did I miss anything? :icon_scratch:
+1 again. I could probably come up with a few other things that annoyed me, but I'm unwilling to continually beat a dead horse. Hopefully these replies answer the question & the lessons are learned.