NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Waving the Bug Wand => Topic started by: Gone Fishing Again on June 22, 2021, 07:50:23 AM
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Looking into the Fly Rod set up for Rock fishing, Tinker sent me to this section, looking at the redington combos, but they seem to be all out of stock. willing to try other brands but I do like the idea of buying another fishing rod. any thoughts or advice is truly accepted
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I just started talking about it! I gotta learn to type faster.
In this section, uplandsandpiper posted a video titled "Boobies, commando heads, and kayak fly fishing" (https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=21767.0 (https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=21767.0)). With the exceptions (a) he's freshwater fishing, and (b) I use a 9wt fly rod for ocean fishing, he does a fine job of explaining the way I set up a fly rod for deep water fishing. At around 7:05 into the video, he also does a good job of demonstrating how to lift the fly for the next cast, and he's far more entertaining than I'll ever be.
Basically, my ocean fly line is in four parts: (1) the backing, (2) the running line (can be any fly line, monofilament, or a level running line), (3) the sink tip, and (4) the leader/tippet.
I hope others will join in here because there are lots of ways to fly-fish the ocean and one will grab your attention and get you going. It's important to think about how you want to use the fly rod before thinking about what fly rod you buy.
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The two rods I use in the ocean are:
Orvis Clearwater 8wt 4 piece
Lamson guru reel with Rio Outbound T14 custom line. 490 gr, 14 gr/ft
This reel has a sealed drag
I really like this setup for rockfish.
Redington Predator 10wt 4 Piece
Cabelas Tlr4 reel with unk type 6 sinking line
I don’t know if they still make that reel. It is inexpensive and I’m sure doesn’t have a sealed drag.
I use this setup when I’m targeting lingcod
If you are getting one setup for both rockfish and lingcod, I would get a 9 or 10wt. Not all rods are recommended for use in saltwater. Get the best large arbor reel with a sealed drag that your budget allows and spool it with a product like the Rio Outbound custom in T-14 and cut some of the tip section to best fit your rod if needed.
I’m a big fan of use what you have first then see if you need to upgrade. That said I wouldn’t suggest using anything smaller than an 8wt.
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The set up I use is a Beulah Surf rod 11' 9/10 wt. (I know-11 foot -but it was the rod I had to fish off the Jetties before I had a kayak) 9/10 Albright large arbor reel with backing with a inter. running line with 15ft. of T-20 but changing slowly over to 30ft. of T-17(goes through the eyes without hanging up) and then depending on what I'm going for 4ft. of 12lb. or 15lb. and maybe the sometimes 20lb. test straight mono for a leader.
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Nobaddays gave a great explanation and I should have done something similar. DUH!
My primary rod/reel is an Echo 3ti sw 9wt, 9'0" 4-piece paired with a Waterworks-Lamson Litespeed 3.5 reel. I use ~150 yards of 30# Dacron backing, a Scientific Anglers Full Intermediate shooting line, 15 - 32 feet of Airflo T18 sink tip, 18 inches of 20#-30# Maxima Chameleon for the leader's butt section, and 3 - 5 feet of 8#-15# Maxima Chameleon as the leader/tippet.
I like this rod for everything in the ocean, save maybe sharks and halibut.
My other saltwater rod is a Echo ION XL, 8wt, 9'0" 4-piece paired with a Waterworks-Lamson Guru HD 3.0 reel. Everything else is the exactly the same except it works best with 15 - 20 feet of Airflo T-18.
It would work equally well for rockfish and lingcod.
Both reels have fully sealed drags. I have a reel that's not sealed and when it gets wet, there's zero drag.
Both of my rods are rated as Moderate-Fast action, but the Echo 3ti is a true saltwater rod and has a somewhat stiffer tip than the Redington Echo ION. You'll notice both of Nobaddays rods are also Moderate-Fast action. The Vice you're interested in is rated as Ultra-Fast.
When I'm sitting in a kayak, tossing heavy lines and weighted flies, a fast action rod simply doesn't work. I need to make a slow, smooth cast and that doesn't match up with fast action rods. It's hard to control where the fly will land when cast with a fast action rod - as many a tree and piling can testify to.
Rod? The Redington Echo ION XL 8wt is what I bought for when the kids come to visit. It's well-made, rated for saltwater, reasonably priced - and it doesn't require expert casting skills to use.
Reel? Maybe the best bang-for-the-buck in saltwater fly reels is the Redington Behemoth. They're close to bulletproof and have one of the strongest sealed drags available. Lots of folks use them in saltwater and they're a favorite with some guides.
I wholeheartedly agree with Nobaddays about using what you have until it no longer works for you. Remember a big fish will tow you around in your kayak. It's not like standing on the shore, and you're not going to stop it in it's tracks - so size your gear with that in mind. If I thought my freshwater 4wt could turn a lingcod away from its rocks and lift it to the net, I'd use it.
Rockfish on a 4wt would be a hoot.
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Excellent info..Big Thanks
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This is what all the info transpired into:
Redington Coastal Coldwater 990-4 Fly Rod Outfit Field Kit : 9wt 9'0"
REDINGTON BEHEMOTH 9/10 FLY REEL
I am looking so forward to playing with it, I think I will call her Mary Beth
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This is what all the info transpired into:
Redington Coastal Coldwater 990-4 Fly Rod Outfit Field Kit : 9wt 9'0"
REDINGTON BEHEMOTH 9/10 FLY REEL
I am looking so forward to playing with it, I think I will call her Mary Beth
I think you are really going to enjoy Mary Beth. I plan to be at ORC. If you make it there bring her with you and look me up. We will see what we can get into.
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Yes Sir look forward to it and yes I will be at ORC
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Funny, Klondike Kid and I were just talking about this 2 weeks ago...I referred him to the FF threads here as well as one or two members ,,whom I suggested he contact in private.
So, I have this question, partly in jest, partly just because: If I load my reel with 80lb gel spun, then a straight running line, then a section of T15-18 , then a 20-30 lb leader butt and end it with a section of 20lb mono at the fly, is it still considered fly fishing, or just dredging?
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This is what all the info transpired into:
Redington Coastal Coldwater 990-4 Fly Rod Outfit Field Kit : 9wt 9'0"
REDINGTON BEHEMOTH 9/10 FLY REEL
I am looking so forward to playing with it, I think I will call her Mary Beth
I hadn't seen that outfit before. Good choice! I'm sure you and Mary Beth will be together for a long time.
So, I have this question, partly in jest, partly just because: If I load my reel with 80lb gel spun, then a straight running line, then a section of T15-18 , then a 20-30 lb leader butt and end it with a section of 20lb mono at the fly, is it still considered fly fishing, or just dredging?
And the point is? What I use and what you describe is a scaled-down version of a Spey-casting line - if we replace the gel-spun backing with Dacron to ensure we don't saw off a finger when we're into the backing. Spey-casting has been around since the mid-1800's, and as far as I know, no one thinks of it as dredging.
All we've done is adapt a style of fly-fishing most often used to catch salmon and steelhead in fast-moving rivers into a way to fish deeper water.
In my simple-minded opinion, I could cast your theoretical rig 40-50 feet all day, so, as long as I'm casting it, I'll call it fly-fishing.
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I agree with Kevin it's still fill fly fishing. What you describe has been used on the West Coast for a long time. The steelhead fly guys started using it in the 20's and it is still used today. When I first started chasing steelhead in the late 70's and early 80's my set up was a full sink 8 with 32 ft. of leadcore line.
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Ok, that went a bit sideways... Wasn't trying to rile anyone up. I've seen the same question posed across different fora and quite often the stiff necked purists lose their minds over it. And Spey?? Oh shit, in some places, in some circles, you've insulted a person's heritage if the word even comes up. I never understood that.
That obviously doesn't include you two. Given your responses, it seems like you're as comfortable as I am with having a fly rod, fly reel and line that works and doesn't necessarily have to have a "fly line" as we know it now, in the system. Good grief, if anything, what I described is probably the epitome of early fly fishing gear in general. And I just now noticed that it kind of also redundantly describes the rigging you mentioned. D'oh!!
Tinker, I don't think of you as simple minded. Every time we've corresponded, you've been well spoken, well educated, and willing to share. That's not a simple minded person in my book. It's also why I jumped in here and asked the question.
By way, those seem like really great deals on those new combos. I'm tempted to break out the credit card and pick one up.
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I assure you there was not the least bit of offense taken from your question and I have proof that I am, without question, simple-minded.
If you think back, there was a time when using beaded nymph flies to catch trout was called "dredging", and while I haven't heard that said lately, I'd guess there are still the dry-fly-only purists who think anyone fishing below the film is dredging. It's not taken as a pejorative, it just reflects a strange old argument between fellow anglers.
Because of Drifter's heroic effort to find fly-fishing-related prizes, there are, right now, seven folks on the board in the fly-fishing category of ATOY. That's never happened before, not since I've been part of NWKA. I think it's great!
But fly fishing in the ocean is misunderstood and folks approach me all the time, see my fly rod, and start asking what fish are feeding in the top water, which leads to an explanation of what I'm doing and how I'm fishing down around 30 feet. My purpose in even answering your question wasn't to be surly, but instead was to explain to anyone who's interested how the strange lines/setups we're using allow us to both fish deeper water and still make pretty casts.
Guys, I saw an opportunity to pontificate and I took it, I was not offended when I swallowed the bait you dangled, and if you recall, it was me who called me "simple-minded", not you. You have always been much to much the gentleman to suggest it's so.
If, for any reason, you felt I snapped at you, I owe you the apology. And that goes out just as sincerely to the Klondike Kid.
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We're good. Check your mail.
And I seriously doubt KK will be offended.
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Received the Kit today, Awesome. My plan was to take it down to Fin & Fire and give them a copy of what you all suggested to fill the real with. very simple, but oh no it came spooled and not wanting to waste anything and it does not state what backing is on it, I can only say it is green..and then there is a pink colored line and then it does say is that it has "Rio Coastal Quickshooter XP line" and then they threw in a 7ft 20lbs Striper bass leader
So after typing this out I see I should probably go down to Fin & Fire (Local Fly Shop)
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That line will work in shallow water, you just will need to let it sink a while. When I was in Fin and Fire, they didn’t stock the Rio outbound custom but could order it. I’m sure the backing is adequate wether it is 20# or 30#. Eventually I would get the faster sinking line.
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Thanks, I will order a roll of T-11 and bring it
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The sink tip should probably be heavier than T11 for your rod. And grab a small spool of Maxima Chameleon monofilament line for leaders - the leader included in your kit is fine but it will eventually need to be replaced. Straight, non-tapered, plain old monofilament works fine in the ocean.
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You can also get a spare spool and spool it up with the line you need. Now you have two outfits, one for rockfish in the ocean and one for estuary salmon and such.
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You guys are awesome, love a good fishing community.
Going to date myself some back in the 80's I made my own fishing lures, because I wanted to show my sons that you do not always need the top of the line fancy fishing lures. And this was great because we always caught fish and they always thought it was neat that they could make their own and name it what ever they wanted. Which as a 10 year old boy was proud of. Well about 5 years later I got into fly fishing and again made my own fly's and I would incorporate them into some of my spinners that I made.
Well now years later I find myself in a 1 bedroom apt with 14 fishing poles and a Yak and now wait for it wait for it. I get to start tying Saltwaters fly's for lings.
I owe this to Tinker, Nobaddays, and Surf12foot so;
Thanks Gentleman Let the fun begin
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Just wait for that 1st hit of something out the depths to smash your fly and then the fun factor will be totally off the charts.
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I owe this to Tinker, Nobaddays, and Surf12foot so;
Don't you go blaming this on me! It's those other guys I tell ya'! I'm innocent!
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I just received my order for Rio Custom T11 and T14 for my 8 and 10 weight rods. Will be spooling up my reels with fresh backing this week. Thinking of trying the setup with white or chartreuse Zonkers for Lakers as it will be a while before I am able to visit the salt. Good practice.
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There is a long post on NCKA on fly fishing for ling that may be useful to you:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=71344.0
Best of luck!
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And especially look at post #6 in the thread which will send you right back here to learn how to do it. ::)
There is a long post on NCKA on fly fishing for ling that may be useful to you:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=71344.0
Best of luck!
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I ordered the book will arrive Saturday, trying to get a few from work here to get out at Pacific City on a Friday in a couple weeks by then I should have a few flies tied up, and yes going to keep it simple with all the guidance from this forum, no reason to invent a wheel that already works.
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If you're catching fish, the flies will seldom last for a second trip so don't get fancy feathers and exotic furs.
Nobaddays is doing a heck of a job on marine species this year while I sit around waiting for the wind to drop below 20 MPH, darn it, and I defer to his dumb luck superior skills for what flies to use and how to use them.
Have a great time out there.
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Yes I anticipate that I will lose most or all of what I tie, so i ordered 100 size 3/0 and 100 6/0 hooks, Tying Fly's is Therapy Right? because I probably will need a lot of Therapy
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Hey! Rockfish with a fly rod can feel like you've hooked a marlin. You can tie smaller flies, too...
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And lets not forget ocean salmon and estuary salmon on the fly too!