NorthWest Kayak Anglers
Kayak Fishing => Heroes On the Water => Heroes On the Water - North Oregon Coast Chapter => Topic started by: Mojo Jojo on August 15, 2017, 08:35:21 AM
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So Helium Head has our trailer and two of our boats for measurements. He's been working off an idea that I have been tweaking for quite some time. We would like some input as well as a line on any fabrication companies that would like to help a worthy cause and get a tax write off ;) We will also accept any help or donations to get this put together. I can build it myself if need be but I think it would be faster and easier with a professional and a full fab shop on board so if you know any shops that might want in on it post up or pm me.
Pics coming two at a time.
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Man, you're gonna have to wind tunnel that thing if you go with the enclosed closet design. Light trailer + high center of gravity + large sail area = someone else can haul it!
If you chop the fence off you can look at putting truck boxes on the sides so long as you keep them inside the outside edge of the wheels.
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Top racks no higher then Helium Head's MBZ SUV rack. Boats I believe are 69 pounds. If we build it this way it will be skinned with light weight sheet metal or fiberglass sheets with the heavy parts as low as possible. We won't be toting it in November December when we get our high winds.
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Maybe consider a few on these around the wheels. Should be able to put 4 of them in place.
Dee Zee DZ95P Poly Plastic Tool Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045TWI48/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_qA2KzbA2Q6Q6H
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I can see those hanging waders falling down and getting stuck making it tough to pull out the rack. I don't have a better idea, just can see it becoming problematic.
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Need water tank to rince equipment of after paddle etc
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I can see those hanging waders falling down and getting stuck making it tough to pull out the rack. I don't have a better idea, just can see it becoming problematic.
Was thinking that as well, we're going to make custom heavy duty hangers (think deer or Elk hanger) so I'll have to design a catch on it to prevent that. The box would be 24 inches wide so in theory we could send one of the skinny guys in there, not it!
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Dang! Where's the Tiki Bar and Stripper pole?
HeliumHead has a great nack for rendering, but Mojo I think you are over engineering the concept.
Keep it simple so it is low cost and completely functional.
Look for used truck bed boxes that just need paint and keys for locker boxes.
The waders can always be hung out to dry wherever the trailer is stored. PFD's dry quick enough.
You've already heard my thoughts on plans via email. Could meet up for a beer and chat to discuss more.
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Oh, and I'd recommend you hang waders by their feet, or draped in half over a bar. No need for spendy hangers, just use padded work clamps over a rope or bar.
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Some updated pics, showing fishing pole storage in starboard lower tray and paddles in port lower tray. I love the KISS approach (keep it simple stupid) but there is a lot to fit onto this trailer, so it may take several revisions to get the packaging right.
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Helium, I have a few questions regarding your renderings of the kayak racks mounted off the side of the center locker/closet.
How are these bars/tubes attached to the center box?
What kind of framing is being used behind the closet wall?
Can you stress test your renderings?
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Dang! Where's the Tiki Bar and Stripper pole?
<...SNIP...>
Mojo, surely you're planning to clean the waders when you've finished an outing? And you'll make sure they're dry before you store them between outings, won't you? I'm not seeing any reason for the closet.
That big box up front seems excessive. The renderings suggest it will block the tow vehicle's taillights and the driver's view from the mirrors.
I just think this design will create a number of issues you'll need to overcome.
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INSAYN, I am helping Mojo with the general arrangement of the trailer, just to see how it can be packaged, not the engineering.
Tinker, I agree, the box does look big. Most camping trailers are 7-8' wide, here, other than the kayaks which don't hang past the wheels, I'm trying to keep everything inside the width of the trailer, 6'.
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Dang! Where's the Tiki Bar and Stripper pole?
HeliumHead has a great nack for rendering, but Mojo I think you are over engineering the concept.
Keep it simple so it is low cost and completely functional.
Look for used truck bed boxes that just need paint and keys for locker boxes.
The waders can always be hung out to dry wherever the trailer is stored. PFD's dry quick enough.
You've already heard my thoughts on plans via email. Could meet up for a beer and chat to discuss more.
I know, we're putting out ideas and reeling in more, there's a real possibility that this thing is going to be stored outside on the coast so the boats we'll be tarped and no real way to hang gear long term to dry. Now if you want to toss ideas around over a body of salt water while fishing your talking my speed. Not a beer fan. Wiskeys quicker but I don't drive after two. :spittake:
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INSAYN, I am helping Mojo with the general arrangement of the trailer, just to see how it can be packaged, not the engineering.
Tinker, I agree, the box does look big. Most camping trailers are 7-8' wide, here, other than the kayaks which don't hang past the wheels, I'm trying to keep everything inside the width of the trailer, 6'.
I hear ya.
I'm just playing devils advocate and asking some questions that some may not consider upfront. As much as I love a good trailer build, I cringe when I see something designed backwards with unnecessary features being made a priority over the actual minimum use needs/limits. These needs/limits should to be determined first, designed several ways with reasonable engineering expectations evaluated, and then the unnecessary items added where possible.
Obviously consideration for some unnecessary items can be included in the primary design phase, but not so much that it inhibits the proper engineering of the required needs/limits.
I guess to help give you suggestions, to design a visible layout based off what MoJo wants/needs, we need to see a list broken down a few ways:
-Absolutely must haves.
-Would like to have, but flexible if not incorporated.
-Limitations (ie, towing limits, loading limits, ground clearance, lock-ability, etc..)
-Long term expectations.
-Other
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Dang! Where's the Tiki Bar and Stripper pole?
HeliumHead has a great nack for rendering, but Mojo I think you are over engineering the concept.
Keep it simple so it is low cost and completely functional.
Look for used truck bed boxes that just need paint and keys for locker boxes.
The waders can always be hung out to dry wherever the trailer is stored. PFD's dry quick enough.
You've already heard my thoughts on plans via email. Could meet up for a beer and chat to discuss more.
I know, we're putting out ideas and reeling in more, there's a real possibility that this thing is going to be stored outside on the coast so the boats we'll be tarped and no real way to hang gear long term to dry. Now if you want to toss ideas around over a body of salt water while fishing your talking my speed. Not a beer fan. Wiskeys quicker but I don't drive after two. :spittake:
Root beer (and whiskey) works!
Keep in mind, wet waders stored outdoors covered by a tarp, or in a closet will still mold. It will be all the wiser to make the extra effort to rinse off salt water, or scum water from said waders, and hang dry upside down in an environment that allows for proper drying. Then packing them up in breathable bags/boxes and stored indoors or garage to avoid the heavily moist air found around the beach area would be most effective at combating the nasties. Just hanging the waders in a locker on the trailer outside even covered with a tarp, your results will be less than desirable.
Putting a water tank on the trailer would be pretty easy for rinsing gear off. Again keep it simple.
Something like this would work.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200624833_200624833?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Lawn%20%2B%20Garden%20%3E%20Sprayers%20%3E%20Broadcast%20%2B%20Spot%20Sprayers&utm_campaign=Ironton&utm_content=2682050&gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac5jNySk8iDLekbZHoou06egSsl1htI-g_QNl2hp5_xL94be1MIL4oRoC-NEQAvD_BwE (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200624833_200624833?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Lawn%20%2B%20Garden%20%3E%20Sprayers%20%3E%20Broadcast%20%2B%20Spot%20Sprayers&utm_campaign=Ironton&utm_content=2682050&gclid=CjwKCAjw2s_MBRA5EiwAmWIac5jNySk8iDLekbZHoou06egSsl1htI-g_QNl2hp5_xL94be1MIL4oRoC-NEQAvD_BwE)
(http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/2000x2000/268/2682050_2000x2000.jpg)
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Helium, I have a few questions regarding your renderings of the kayak racks mounted off the side of the center locker/closet.
How are these bars/tubes attached to the center box?
What kind of framing is being used behind the closet wall?
Can you stress test your renderings?
Im thinking, out load here, build the rack as an eco-skeleton that bolts to the trailerand sits around the box, again just thinking out load. This is the first idea going on the design block, as we get input and ideas we can modify and change things.
As for needs list:
Hold 8 boats, paddles, and seats
Hold a couple dozen trout rods and salmon rods with reels
Hold 24 pairs of waders
Hold our pfd's 8 (I think) but ideally 12
Hold our camping gear with room to add more
Keep all the above dry and secured if parked outside
Towable by an SUV OR 1/2 ton truck (ideally a Toyota size truck)
Wants list:
A place to hang dry the waders, unless someone volunteers to take that over ( I live in a 40 ft RV) I can't do it.
Wash/rinse station
Changing curtain
Led rigging lights with a 12 volt deep cycle battery
Led upgrade tail lights with additional led strips on the kayak cross bars
List might grow or shrink.
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Now I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't see it working.
I'm right on the coast, and I've learned everything will get moldy if you store it the way you've described unless you can keep dry air circulating around it. Not just the waders and PFD's but also the seats, the bungees, and the rod handles... DAMHIK.
And I don't see a way around metal corrosion issues caused by the salt air.
It's a tough challenge, Mojo. You have to store things outdoors, and I don't see the way around the mold and corrosion problem - but I'm no INSAYN.
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Now I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't see it working.
I'm right on the coast, and I've learned everything will get moldy if you store it the way you've described unless you can keep dry air circulating around it. Not just the waders and PFD's but also the seats, the bungees, and the rod handles... DAMHIK.
And I don't see a way around metal corrosion issues caused by the salt air.
It's a tough challenge, Mojo. You have to store things outdoors, and I don't see the way around the mold and corrosion problem - but I'm no INSAYN.
Well aware of coastal issues, I have lived here on the coast for 8 years. We're looking for indoor storage for everything but Coast storage is premium. It would also be great if someone were to volunteer as our Chapter equipment coordinator and had the ability to rinse, dry, and store it all or at least the "moldables" . Lots of chapters use inclosed trailers just not sure of there environment conditions.
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Now I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't see it working.
I'm right on the coast, and I've learned everything will get moldy if you store it the way you've described unless you can keep dry air circulating around it. Not just the waders and PFD's but also the seats, the bungees, and the rod handles... DAMHIK.
And I don't see a way around metal corrosion issues caused by the salt air.
It's a tough challenge, Mojo. You have to store things outdoors, and I don't see the way around the mold and corrosion problem - but I'm no INSAYN.
Well aware of coastal issues, I have lived here on the coast for 8 years. We're looking for indoor storage for everything but Coast storage is premium. It would also be great if someone were to volunteer as our Chapter equipment coordinator and had the ability to rinse, dry, and store it all or at least the "moldables" . Lots of chapters use inclosed trailers just not sure of there environment conditions.
There's "climate controlled" storage units cropping up now, sometimes marketed as wine storage. No, really. True story !
I have no idea what they cost, or whether they come in sizes large enough to hold the trailer, etc. I also don't think that would necessarily help, since it doesn't really provide air movement.
I imagine a storage unit with electricity is a bit of a unicorn, as the first thing they'd be used for is grow operations.
In terms of useful suggestions, the only one occurring to me this morning is to canvas other chapters for the details of their designs.
Another idea that occurs to me is that you don't need storage on the trailer for EVERYTHING. The "several dozen rods...." thing is excessive to me - you don't need to bring salmon AND trout/bass gear. You need one or the other. So interchangable stores racks/pods, load up the trout pack, or load up the salmon pack. Leave the other behind. One dozen rods of each in the pack gives you enough slack space with 8 boats plus a few boats brought along by volunteers.
Finally, think about what is going to be towing this. I think you're beyond something that can be pulled by a car like your Outback anyway, and you were talking about a truck. Some of the gear doesn't need to live and ride on the trailer. Kitchen stuff, PFD's, rods could be in the truck bed or back of an SUV.
Which brings another thing to mind. You can't run one of these events solo, so maybe a smaller enclosed trailer holds/carries the wetsuits/pfd's/kitchen ? A 4x6 or 5x8 enclosed trailer could be towed by an Outback or similar car while a truck hauls the boats.
An enclosed trailer with a solar vent/fan might be the answer to moving air around a trailer stored outside.
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Now I understand what you're trying to do, but I don't see it working.
I'm right on the coast, and I've learned everything will get moldy if you store it the way you've described unless you can keep dry air circulating around it. Not just the waders and PFD's but also the seats, the bungees, and the rod handles... DAMHIK.
And I don't see a way around metal corrosion issues caused by the salt air.
It's a tough challenge, Mojo. You have to store things outdoors, and I don't see the way around the mold and corrosion problem - but I'm no INSAYN.
Well aware of coastal issues, I have lived here on the coast for 8 years. We're looking for indoor storage for everything but Coast storage is premium. It would also be great if someone were to volunteer as our Chapter equipment coordinator and had the ability to rinse, dry, and store it all or at least the "moldables" . Lots of chapters use inclosed trailers just not sure of there environment conditions.
There's "climate controlled" storage units cropping up now, sometimes marketed as wine storage. No, really. True story !
I have no idea what they cost, or whether they come in sizes large enough to hold the trailer, etc. I also don't think that would necessarily help, since it doesn't really provide air movement.
I imagine a storage unit with electricity is a bit of a unicorn, as the first thing they'd be used for is grow operations.
In terms of useful suggestions, the only one occurring to me this morning is to canvas other chapters for the details of their designs.
Another idea that occurs to me is that you don't need storage on the trailer for EVERYTHING. The "several dozen rods...." thing is excessive to me - you don't need to bring salmon AND trout/bass gear. You need one or the other. So interchangable stores racks/pods, load up the trout pack, or load up the salmon pack. Leave the other behind. One dozen rods of each in the pack gives you enough slack space with 8 boats plus a few boats brought along by volunteers.
Finally, think about what is going to be towing this. I think you're beyond something that can be pulled by a car like your Outback anyway, and you were talking about a truck. Some of the gear doesn't need to live and ride on the trailer. Kitchen stuff, PFD's, rods could be in the truck bed or back of an SUV.
Which brings another thing to mind. You can't run one of these events solo, so maybe a smaller enclosed trailer holds/carries the wetsuits/pfd's/kitchen ? A 4x6 or 5x8 enclosed trailer could be towed by an Outback or similar car while a truck hauls the boats.
An enclosed trailer with a solar vent/fan might be the answer to moving air around a trailer stored outside.
A good point on not all needing to be in there, but do you have room to store what we're not using? Or gear needs a place to reside, We live in tight quarters by choice and we love it. As we acquire more gear we need somewhere to store it all dry. I'm scouring the area to see if someone wants to donate a place to park it indoors, as for paid storage units if we got on a long waiting list, I don't see us lasting long paying $150 a month it would drain our resources rapidly.
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Oops! Sorry, Mojo, in my head that sentence was, "I live on the coast, TOO" because I know you live right on the Bay, and I know you haven't a square inch to spare for storing any of this.
It's a tough dilemma to solve, for sure.
You might be better off using one of those picnic shade/tents to keep rain off everything than you will be using a tarp - assuming you can stake it down when the Winter storms blow through. And that's as far as my little brain is going to carry me.
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Mojo, you have a dilemma that you will need to work through.
Clearly this requires a LOT of resources, be it the trailer, gear, volunteers, etc...
Being the great guy that you are and tackling the HOW chapter is most commendable. Hats off to you for taking the leap.
Living on the coast, and it being a coast chapter, it brings with it another layer of issues that must be overcome.
Cold wet weather most of the year can wreak havoc on anything stored outside, regardless if it is under a tarp or enclosed trailer.
I know of zero cargo trailers within a HOW budget that will mitigate the follies of wet misty conditions dished out by the coastal weather systems.
The idea of storing the soft stuff inland, and inside a garage might be a really good idea to consider.
How you go about this is another task in itself.
The trailer itself can be painted with materials that will severely reduce rusting especially if rinsed occasionally to remove salty air contaminants. A regular dose of WD40 or Silicon spray on the axle, hubs and springs will keep them from rotting away on you.
The kayaks themselves will be fine, they're plastic.
I don't know what rods and reels you are using now, or plan to get, but highly suggest two piece so you can break them down for better storage. Heck the rods and reels could ride in the hull of the top kayak on the trailer to and from the events. Nobody would know or have time to grab them if you were to stop at a store or gas station along the way to try and steal them. No need for a locker box for them specifically.
Rinsing down the gear properly will have to be a priority regardless of who does it, even if that's you.
If gear was used in fresh water, then it will be a simple rinse. However, salty gear will need to be addressed without much wiggle room.
The final thought I want to raise is regarding usage.
Will you be hosting HOW events during the winter months? If not, securing your gear inland (preferably garaged) would be a best case scenario for long term quality/reliablility.
The summer months can be off and on at the coast so it's a crap shoot there.
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Mojo, have you looked into this?
Secure storage, heated and close to you.
Looks like you can get into a 10x10 heated unit for under $50 a month, regularly $97 a month.
Just store the gear there, not the kayaks/trailer.
https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated (https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated)
Maybe they would cut you a deal being this is for HOW, and help you fit the trailer as well for a deal?
Currently, they have a 10 x 20 for $69.50 a month, regularly $139 a month.
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Mojo, have you looked into this?
Secure storage, heated and close to you.
Looks like you can get into a 10x10 heated unit for under $50 a month, regularly $97 a month.
Just store the gear there, not the kayaks/trailer.
https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated (https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated)
Maybe they would cut you a deal being this is for HOW, and help you fit the trailer as well for a deal?
Currently, they have a 10 x 20 for $69.50 a month, regularly $139 a month.
Im working with a gal from the port currently as well as one of there veteran volunteers to see what we can do there. Still $834 a year will eat at our budget way too fast. I would have no problem storing the gear inland all year as long as we have several volunteers (5-6) that would be willing to tow it here and someone there has the room. . We only need once a month but we all got families and obligations so we would need plenty of options. Anyone interested and have indoor storage for gear crates we already have two plastic totes,I have to move them every time I need to get into my rolling tool chest in storage ;)
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I think the inland storage will end up creating problems, simply because Shannon won't be able to run into town before each event to check on or address some issue. And especially in the winter with the passes and chain requirements.
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I didn't hear where coastal HOW events were held in the winter months.
Doable, but feasible?
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Mojo, have you looked into this?
Secure storage, heated and close to you.
Looks like you can get into a 10x10 heated unit for under $50 a month, regularly $97 a month.
Just store the gear there, not the kayaks/trailer.
https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated (https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated)
Maybe they would cut you a deal being this is for HOW, and help you fit the trailer as well for a deal?
Currently, they have a 10 x 20 for $69.50 a month, regularly $139 a month.
Im working with a gal from the port currently as well as one of there veteran volunteers to see what we can do there. Still $834 a year will eat at our budget way too fast. I would have no problem storing the gear inland all year as long as we have several volunteers (5-6) that would be willing to tow it here and someone there has the room. . We only need once a month but we all got families and obligations so we would need plenty of options. Anyone interested and have indoor storage for gear crates we already have two plastic totes,I have to move them every time I need to get into my rolling tool chest in storage ;)
I would still suggest you take the time to see what they (and all other storage places near you) can do to help you, given your tight budget, resources, and location. No reason to avoid them as an option up front.
Right now it makes sense to work with you have. You have a trailer, you have kayaks, you have fishing gear. Not sure what else you have regarding PFDs, waders, etc.
If you need more resources, like HOW members to assist you on a regular basis, a tow vehicle, and a place for dry storage, then it makes sense to rally your troops and work on these speed bumps before going hog wild on a trailer design.
Get together and come up with ways to encourage more folks in your local area to support the North Coast HOW Chapter, once, monthly, yearly, physically, etc.
Crank up your Facebook page and make it pop with motivation for others to join you with your chapter needs.
As a group, do some fund raising.
Here is just a small start to options for fundraisers.
-Car wash
-Bake sale
Rummage sale
-Garage sale
-HOW donation jars placed in establishments
-Silent auctions
-Amazon Smile
-BINGO night
-Corn Hole tournament
-Scavenger Hunt
-Applebee’s Pancake Breakfast
-Coffee Donation Kiosk
-Bottle/Can Deposit Donation
-Facebook Donate Now Feature
-Dodgeball Tournament
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Mojo, have you looked into this?
Secure storage, heated and close to you.
Looks like you can get into a 10x10 heated unit for under $50 a month, regularly $97 a month.
Just store the gear there, not the kayaks/trailer.
https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated (https://www.selfstorageoni5.com/self-storage/or/tillamook/port-storage/storage-unit-sizes#/units?category=Heated)
Maybe they would cut you a deal being this is for HOW, and help you fit the trailer as well for a deal?
Currently, they have a 10 x 20 for $69.50 a month, regularly $139 a month.
Im working with a gal from the port currently as well as one of there veteran volunteers to see what we can do there. Still $834 a year will eat at our budget way too fast. I would have no problem storing the gear inland all year as long as we have several volunteers (5-6) that would be willing to tow it here and someone there has the room. . We only need once a month but we all got families and obligations so we would need plenty of options. Anyone interested and have indoor storage for gear crates we already have two plastic totes,I have to move them every time I need to get into my rolling tool chest in storage ;)
I would still suggest you take the time to see what they (and all other storage places near you) can do to help you, given your tight budget, resources, and location. No reason to avoid them as an option up front.
Right now it makes sense to work with you have. You have a trailer, you have kayaks, you have fishing gear. Not sure what else you have regarding PFDs, waders, etc.
If you need more resources, like HOW members to assist you on a regular basis, a tow vehicle, and a place for dry storage, then it makes sense to rally your troops and work on these speed bumps before going hog wild on a trailer design.
Get together and come up with ways to encourage more folks in your local area to support the North Coast HOW Chapter, once, monthly, yearly, physically, etc.
Crank up your Facebook page and make it pop with motivation for others to join you with your chapter needs.
As a group, do some fund raising.
Here is just a small start to options for fundraisers.
-Car wash
-Bake sale
Rummage sale
-Garage sale
-HOW donation jars placed in establishments
-Silent auctions
-Amazon Smile
-BINGO night
-Corn Hole tournament
-Scavenger Hunt
-Applebee’s Pancake Breakfast
-Coffee Donation Kiosk
-Bottle/Can Deposit Donation
-Facebook Donate Now Feature
-Dodgeball Tournament
I have been canvasing all the storage places local unfortunately there all "managers" so they relay to the owner and I never hear back from them. We aren't allowed to fundraisers as a chapter it all has to be done 3rd party. Biggest thing we can use is volunteers for events as well as continue spreading the word to get our Heroes out.
We aren't set on the design it is just first out the gate, my moto is go big then go home?!? I think??? Something like that either way I'm tired just replaced a 2 week old hub assembly on TLW's car. Second rendition coming up.
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This still doesn't change the height it moves the bottom kayaks onto sail position and lifts the deck height for truck bed boxes these are 70X18X14 we could move the boats down to within an inch of the boxes requiring the bottom boats to be removed to open them.
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Why dont you go with a enclosed trailer
Can conf the inside any way
Solves storage and weather issues also
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Why dont you go with a enclosed trailer
Can conf the inside any way
Solves storage and weather issues also
Enclosed trailers are way more expensive to go with. And even more so for something large enough to enclose kayaks and gear. Probably need at least a 16' trailer.
Requires a much larger vehicle to tow with.
And gear will still have issues staying dry unless the trailer is insulated (= more money/weight).
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This still doesn't change the height it moves the bottom kayaks onto sail position and lifts the deck height for truck bed boxes these are 70X18X14 we could move the boats down to within an inch of the boxes requiring the bottom boats to be removed to open them.
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19727.0;attach=36242;image)
I think this rendering looks very functional. The only suggestion, would be to have a front box across the front instead of the two boxes you have there. This way you have access to it regardless if kayaks are loaded or not.
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So here’s our final design idea, remember these are all ideas and suggestions from our good friend heliumhead. This will be custom built from 1-1/4 square tube steel... 0.64(?? I think).... it will be built around our boxes and boats. Anyone interested in coming to my buddies shop in Idaville (between Tillamook and Bay City) and help out from time to time let me know. Hopefully we will have the steel next week and be starting on it Thursday or Friday, Cosmo is interested in coming down Saturday or Sunday to help out as well as learn to weld .... yes I’m pointing him in the direction of the scrap steel and letting him learn! We will be posting updated pictures as we work on it. We may make the front cage box bigger to hold crates and gear secured by lock.
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Out of curiosity how come you have the supports for the kayaks level and not at an angle?
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Out of curiosity how come you have the supports for the kayaks level and not at an angle?
They will be slightly angled on the trailer to prevent slipping if were unleveled while loading or unloading. The pictures are strictly for layout.
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Have you rerun the weight calculations ? With boats loaded and all the gear on, I worry we my be near the capacity of the axle or tires.
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Have you rerun the weight calculations ? With boats loaded and all the gear on, I worry we my be near the capacity of the axle or tires.
Of all the things in this world that you can/should over-engineer a trailer's suspension is near the top of the list.
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Have you rerun the weight calculations ? With boats loaded and all the gear on, I worry we my be near the capacity of the axle or tires.
Of all the things in this world that you can/should over-engineer a trailer's suspension is near the top of the list.
+1
Absolute truth!
When I built my kayak camp trailer, I immediately went with a 3500# trailer axle and E rated tires. The heaviest I've ever had this trailer is about 1800#s.
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1800 lbs axles I doubt we can load it heavier then the catamaran that it was built for.
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What's the empty weight, including all the build-out you're doing ?
Add 800# just for the kayaks, then however much you think the gear will weigh...4 boxes with wetsuits ? I bet 50# each easy.
That's 1000# right there just in cargo. I'm betting you're over the axle rating from the get-go.
Part of your build should be an axle upgrade.
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What's the empty weight, including all the build-out you're doing ?
Add 800# just for the kayaks, then however much you think the gear will weigh...4 boxes with wetsuits ? I bet 50# each easy.
That's 1000# right there just in cargo. I'm betting you're over the axle rating from the get-go.
Part of your build should be an axle upgrade.
Since I can lift a back corner if needed as well as the tongue I doubt it is that heavy of a trailer empty. The boats are around >640 lbs, the boxes are aluminum, we’re not hauling the waders that we don’t need, the paddles and poles are not that heavy. I still doubt we will be over weight on the trailer.
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Actually I stand corrected 504 lbs of Jackson Cruise 12 kayaks with all 8 on board.
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What is the trailer rated? We are not rying to nitpick just worry about he safety of you and others who may drive. It looks like you guys are doing a great job tho. Thanks for doing this for such a great cause!
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What is the trailer rated? We are not rying to nitpick just worry about he safety of you and others who may drive. It looks like you guys are doing a great job tho. Thanks for doing this for such a great cause!
I’ll let ya know tomorrow, since it was built custom at a trailer manufacturer in 2013 it has all the stickers still intact on the tongue. ;D
Updated if we use every inch of the steel we already purchased that’s 196 lbs plus a little for the welds 1lb maybe?!?!
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1800 lbs axles I doubt we can load it heavier then the catamaran that it was built for.
Says the guy that is building a kayak hauler with more storage space than a Boeing 747. :happy8:
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What is the trailer rated? We are not rying to nitpick just worry about he safety of you and others who may drive. It looks like you guys are doing a great job tho. Thanks for doing this for such a great cause!
I’ll let ya know tomorrow, since it was built custom at a trailer manufacturer in 2013 it has all the stickers still intact on the tongue. ;D
Updated if we use every inch of the steel we already purchased that’s 196 lbs plus a little for the welds 1lb maybe?!?!
Once you get the framing all done, go tow it over to a weigh station and weigh it. And you will use way more than a pound of wire to weld all that together.
It's the small stuff that ends up in all the storage areas that will add up quickly!
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What's the empty weight, including all the build-out you're doing ?
Add 800# just for the kayaks, then however much you think the gear will weigh...4 boxes with wetsuits ? I bet 50# each easy.
That's 1000# right there just in cargo. I'm betting you're over the axle rating from the get-go.
Part of your build should be an axle upgrade.
Since I can lift a back corner if needed as well as the tongue I doubt it is that heavy of a trailer empty. The boats are around >640 lbs, the boxes are aluminum, we’re not hauling the waders that we don’t need, the paddles and poles are not that heavy. I still doubt we will be over weight on the trailer.
That is not a great way to judge the weight of something. If you laid on the ground face down, I am sure I could lift one of your legs off the ground pretty easy.
Highly doubt I could easily pick your entire body off the ground in the same position.
Good example...I could lift my baja bug front end at least a foot off the ground by myself, and the car weighed 1550#s. No way in hell I could lift the entire car.
(http://www.blindchickenracing.com/Photo_Album/trip_photos/ricks9-18-03/ricks9-18-0311.JPG)
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Ok there is a 2000 lb axle under it the tongue weight is 160 lbs the empty weight is 720 this is from the log scale at the Garibaldi Hardwood mill this morning. We dropped the rails quite a bit and at 1/8 inch thick or so we lost some weight but the scale was closed so I can weigh what we cut off this weekend or weigh the whole thing next trip to the shop. We’re guessing we cut off 40-50 lbs cuz the tongue boat crank arm also came off. More pics to come.
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Action shots.
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We used a larger diameter square tube as a guide for our cuts, and yes that’s a full face respirator .... I don’t like breathing metal and paint dust. Hdwipmonkey got a welding lesson since Cosmo didn’t make it.
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Ok this is just "back of the napkin at Biscuits Cafe" calculation.
700 trailer weight current (taking your 760 and giving you credit for 60# or cutting off)
200 steel I'm picking up today
500 the 8 boats
200 the 5 truck boxes, empty (4 aluminum at 37 each, plus Mark's steel one)
You're at 1600# before the sheet steel, or any gear.
We need to plan for an axle and spring upgrade. I'd also like someone who knows what they're talking about assess if the frame itself and tongue can handle.
Also, at this weight you really should be thinking about electric brakes. This will be particularly important for those who might tow with a smaller vehicle.
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Ok this is just "back of the napkin at Biscuits Cafe" calculation.
700 trailer weight current (taking your 760 and giving you credit for 60# or cutting off)
200 steel I'm picking up today
500 the 8 boats
200 the 5 truck boxes, empty (4 aluminum at 37 each, plus Mark's steel one)
You're at 1600# before the sheet steel, or any gear.
We need to plan for an axle and spring upgrade. I'd also like someone who knows what they're talking about assess if the frame itself and tongue can handle.
Also, at this weight you really should be thinking about electric brakes. This will be particularly important for those who might tow with a smaller vehicle.
It's good to evaluate what will be going on the trailer and plan for it, rather than "wing it" and do a "let's see what happens" and then find out what happens.
Interesting numbers.
I do agree a heavier axle/spring combo should be considered down the road, and possibly tires (don't remember what those were rated at).
However, I don't feel electric brakes are necessary...yet. Proper loading could elevate any overloading issues, like spreading out the load within other vehicles on events where everything has to go. On events where minimal gear is needed, don't take it. Easy as that!
Usually electric brakes are better suited for dual axle trailers, and or for trailers above 3000#. It wouldn't be a bad idea for brakes if the trailer was to exceed the weight of the tow vehicle, as critical mass could pass the tow vehicle at the most inopportune time. Now, unless they plan to tow this with a VW Rabbit, or Mini Cooper I doubt they would ever get this trailer heavier than MoJo's 'bru'bru, and certainly not Ray's Jeep.
If brakes are deemed necessary, then any vehicle towing this trailer fully loaded should have a trailer brake controller installed.
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One note on using cardboard to control spark fling.
Not usually a good practice, due to obvious reasons like catching it on fire.
The not so obvious reasons can burn a place down.
Back in high school, I had a friend completely destroy his dads shop by welding on the exhaust of his Ford Pinto. Hours after he was done, and the car had been taken for a test drive and parked in driveway, the shop lit up and exploded!!!
Fire department determined that the fire started with the cardboard that was off to the side of where Shawn was welding, and caught a spark. The spark just hung out there completely out of site and smoldered until it got the cardboard hot enough to ignite.
It was always suggested to use metal sheet, fiberglass sheet, wet towels or even soaked cardboard if that was all that was available to contain sparks.
HOWEVER!!!
The wet towels, or wet cardboard is to be put outside in a barrel, or placed on concrete nowhere near anything flammable when done with the spark making.
Any welding or grinding inside a shop/garage should be monitored for several hours after work has finished to make sure no other
flammable items where hiding a smoldering spark nugget.
Let's practice "safe sparking", guys! :thumbsup:
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19727.0;attach=37011;image)
(http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19727.0;attach=37023;image)
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The cardboard wasn't our idea. The shop owner had a car in the next Bay with an open engine block and was trying to mitigate any metal flying that way. I told him we could hang plastic between the two bags but he said just to put the cardboard there to knock the sparks down...
As far as welding we had a welding blanket that we used.
We finished welding when I left around 3pm and Mojo was still there painting for probably another 2 hours along with the shop owner so we should have been good for any flare ups if somehow a spark from the grinder finally caught fire.
Thanks for the PSA though. I know you're watching out for us. [emoji106]
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Lookin' good Mojo!
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All the boxes are aluminum, once the rack and yaks are on this won’t be towable with anything smaller then hdwipmonkey’s Jeep Cherokee regardless of who thinks they want too tow it we won’t allow it. I have a scale 3 blocks from we’re we park the trailer so we will know exactly how much the trailer weighs after the racks on. The sticks are 6 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 29.4 lbs (176 lbs) each and one piece of angle not sure on the weight. Trailer is 720 lbs TOTAL. 2000 lbs axle 1800 gvrw. I’ll know approximately what we lopped off later tonight. Don’t worry we’re not using receiver grade 2 inch steel to hold kayaks! :o
I used to drive garbage truck for 17 years with a commercial drivers license and I’m well aware of weight, weight distribution and towing capacity. I live in a 40 ft fifth wheel and my previous trailer was triple axle 38ft both over 10,000 lbs with trailer brakes, never hauled anything that big with anything short of my F350. I’m not a Dolt and I’m pretty sure Hdwipmonkey isn’t one either (INSAYN may argue that one). If you look real careful in the background of the shop you’ll see the full size 1984 Ford Bronco I’m rebuilding ($1200 just in the engine rebuild) to use as our pull rig. Desert camo once complete and on my dime and time. With 1 ton rear leaf springs I’m pretty sure it can handle the trailer and 75% of the heavy gear in the back keeping the trailer 100 -<+lbs under its 1800 gvrw. I’ll keep weights updated as we build. I also have my trailer that can haul gear if everything must go!
So sit back relax and enjoy the show (P.S. there’s a lot of math and calculations going on as we are placing the gear and boats on and off and deciding where and what we’re adding. If need be upgrading to a 3500 lbs axle with breaks is “easy peasy rice and cheesy”..... if and or when we need to. :happy1:
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All the boxes are aluminum, once the rack and yaks are on this won’t be towable with anything smaller then hdwipmonkey’s Jeep Cherokee regardless of who thinks they want too tow it we won’t allow it. I have a scale 3 blocks from we’re we park the trailer so we will know exactly how much the trailer weighs after the racks on. The sticks are 6 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 29.4 lbs (176 lbs) each and one piece of angle not sure on the weight. Trailer is 720 lbs TOTAL. 2000 lbs axle 1800 gvrw. I’ll know approximately what we lopped off later tonight. Don’t worry we’re not using receiver grade 2 inch steel to hold kayaks! :o
I used to drive garbage truck for 17 years with a commercial drivers license and I’m well aware of weight, weight distribution and towing capacity. I live in a 40 ft fifth wheel and my previous trailer was triple axle 38ft both over 10,000 lbs with trailer brakes, never hauled anything that big with anything short of my F350. I’m not a Dolt and I’m pretty sure Hdwipmonkey isn’t one either (INSAYN may argue that one). If you look real careful in the background of the shop you’ll see the full size 1984 Ford Bronco I’m rebuilding ($1200 just in the engine rebuild) to use as our pull rig. Desert camo once complete and on my dime and time. With 1 ton rear leaf springs I’m pretty sure it can handle the trailer and 75% of the heavy gear in the back keeping the trailer 100 -<+lbs under its 1800 gvrw. I’ll keep weights updated as we build. I also have my trailer that can haul gear if everything must go!
So sit back relax and enjoy the show (P.S. there’s a lot of math and calculations going on as we are placing the gear and boats on and off and deciding where and what we’re adding. If need be upgrading to a 3500 lbs axle with breaks is “easy peasy rice and cheesy”..... if and or when we need to. :happy1:
:headbang:
What engine is the 84 Bronco getting? A tuned 351 Windsor?
The Bronco will be more than capable of a beasty to pull that tiny trailer.
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All the boxes are aluminum, once the rack and yaks are on this won’t be towable with anything smaller then hdwipmonkey’s Jeep Cherokee regardless of who thinks they want too tow it we won’t allow it. I have a scale 3 blocks from we’re we park the trailer so we will know exactly how much the trailer weighs after the racks on. The sticks are 6 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 29.4 lbs (176 lbs) each and one piece of angle not sure on the weight. Trailer is 720 lbs TOTAL. 2000 lbs axle 1800 gvrw. I’ll know approximately what we lopped off later tonight. Don’t worry we’re not using receiver grade 2 inch steel to hold kayaks! :o
I used to drive garbage truck for 17 years with a commercial drivers license and I’m well aware of weight, weight distribution and towing capacity. I live in a 40 ft fifth wheel and my previous trailer was triple axle 38ft both over 10,000 lbs with trailer brakes, never hauled anything that big with anything short of my F350. I’m not a Dolt and I’m pretty sure Hdwipmonkey isn’t one either (INSAYN may argue that one). If you look real careful in the background of the shop you’ll see the full size 1984 Ford Bronco I’m rebuilding ($1200 just in the engine rebuild) to use as our pull rig. Desert camo once complete and on my dime and time. With 1 ton rear leaf springs I’m pretty sure it can handle the trailer and 75% of the heavy gear in the back keeping the trailer 100 -<+lbs under its 1800 gvrw. I’ll keep weights updated as we build. I also have my trailer that can haul gear if everything must go!
So sit back relax and enjoy the show (P.S. there’s a lot of math and calculations going on as we are placing the gear and boats on and off and deciding where and what we’re adding. If need be upgrading to a 3500 lbs axle with breaks is “easy peasy rice and cheesy”..... if and or when we need to. :happy1:
:headbang:
What engine is the 84 Bronco getting? A tuned 351 Windsor?
The Bronco will be more than capable of a beasty to pull that tiny trailer.
300 in-line 6 with a few mods to run old school ;) with a 1 barrel carburetor it gets around 30+mpg and with the 3 speed on the floor and granny gear it can walk out most muddy situations as long as both axle aren’t buried halfway up the pumpkins (DAMHIK) it rides on 33/9.50/15 BFG all terrains. Stock height except for the rear spring being a tad higher. INSAYN you would LOVE the dashboard.
Short story $150 12 years ago from a tow yard in the sticks with no doors, no windshield, no hard top, rolled into a tree... was a farm truck ... drove it onto my buddies flatbed tow truck on 3 flat tires. :banjo:
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My folks had a 91 EFI bronco with a 302 in it. Pulled a 23' Mako power boat with two outboards without breaking a sweat out of some steep boat ramps. I'm sure you'll be more than OK :) The clearance for getting through the bumpy bits at PC beach will be helpful too.
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Daylight outside shot of the trailer, and we removed approximately 34 lbs is steel so the first stick and a half we use don’t count :bootyshake:
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Trailer looks fine in your picture MoJo. That axle sure is back a long way but I don't want to argue building specs. I am sure there is a plan.
Sounds like either motor will pull that trailer around , might depend on who puts it together. An old Bronco with a nice 300 inside can go almost any where. That could be a great project car for someone. Have fun with it.
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We just found out that or $207.90 worth of supplies (graciously delivered by Pinstriper at no cost) was donated by Cosmo way to go Mr. & Mrs. Cosmo. Got a good start on the center box still need gussets and some grinding on the welds but it’s a good start.
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Ok there is a 2000 lb axle under it the tongue weight is 160 lbs the empty weight is 720 this is from the log scale at the Garibaldi Hardwood mill this morning. We dropped the rails quite a bit and at 1/8 inch thick or so we lost some weight but the scale was closed so I can weigh what we cut off this weekend or weigh the whole thing next trip to the shop. We’re guessing we cut off 40-50 lbs cuz the tongue boat crank arm also came off. More pics to come.
Just checking, is the tongue 160 and the axles 720? (total 880 pounds)? Or is the 720 the combined weight?
If you're building on a torsion axle instead of springs you don't want to be near the axle limit. For quite a few years I thought my dual axle enclosed cargo trailer had two #3500 axles, but I found out after wearing tires they were actually two #2000 torsion axles. Big oops but aside from tires, a storage rental in a remote town and an extra 2,000 mile round trip, no harm done. :o That trailer's gone now.
Just my caution but I'd not count on carrying weight on the tongue. My gut feel is the axle should rate at least 20% over your max loaded trailer weight.
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Ok there is a 2000 lb axle under it the tongue weight is 160 lbs the empty weight is 720 this is from the log scale at the Garibaldi Hardwood mill this morning. We dropped the rails quite a bit and at 1/8 inch thick or so we lost some weight but the scale was closed so I can weigh what we cut off this weekend or weigh the whole thing next trip to the shop. We’re guessing we cut off 40-50 lbs cuz the tongue boat crank arm also came off. More pics to come.
Just checking, is the tongue 160 and the axles 720? (total 880 pounds)? Or is the 720 the combined weight?
If you're building on a torsion axle instead of springs you don't want to be near the axle limit. For quite a few years I thought my dual axle enclosed cargo trailer had two #3500 axles, but I found out after wearing tires they were actually two #2000 torsion axles. Big oops but aside from tires, a storage rental in a remote town and an extra 2,000 mile round trip, no harm done. :o That trailer's gone now.
Just my caution but I'd not count on carrying weight on the tongue. My gut feel is the axle should rate at least 20% over your max loaded trailer weight.
Tongue weight is just that how much is on the hitch, the total weight of the whole trailer is 720 single axle with leaf springs not torsion (never was a fan of that style). I have a strong feeling we will be under our weight limit fully loaded with the chapters gear and boats.
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Don't know if this helps at all at this stage, but saw this trailer...
(http://)
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Ray and I got a little farther on the rack for the trailer today since he had to come pick up a chapter boat for the Newport Stand down.
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For our spacing of the bars Ray cut me a piece that I used on the inside to tack the bar then two magnets at the top to ensure our spacing and ever so slight angle stayed the same on each bar.
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Cosmo came out today for a little bit and we got our side stabilizer bars cut and welded in, I also got all 18 of the bar caps rounded off and ready to weld on ( boy was that a pain in the back) and cut a few of the 1 inch tubes from the rail lowering job as 5 inch gussets for the boat bars. Coming along a little at a time.
If anyone has an “in” with a body shop or manufacturing place that has a paint booth or “spray bay” we are in need of a dry place to paint everything (rust preventative paint), I have my own paint gun and think my compressor should handle the gun although a shop compressor would be ideal.
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Good news! We have secured a place to paint our rack and the trailer. The manager at the Port of Garibaldi asked around and the Big Tuna Marina said we’re welcome to use there spray booth. With any luck the rack will be finished up soon and get a fresh coat of paint.
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Welding and grinding is all done! Moving it to the Big Tuna Marina for paint. Not sure how soon it will get the paint but it’s getting moved tomorrow.
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Here’s the unpainted rack in place. Scaled it on the way to the marina and we’re at 840 with the rack on and no boats, boxes, or gear..... so we’re good.
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Looking like next Thursday is painting day for the chapter trailer. I’ll update the pictures once it’s done.
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Looking great! Not an easy job.
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Looking like next Thursday is painting day for the chapter trailer. I’ll update the pictures once it’s done.
No.
No, man....No. That's not good enough.
I want some pictures NOW.
You can't just lay a teaser out there like that.
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That is looking real good MoJo! You have put lot of thought into this, to see it come to fruition is great.
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Painted
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3 of the 4 boxes on, 2 of the 8 boats (need more straps) and sticker’d up.
No I don’t want to hear that one of the stickers isn’t straight unless you want to drive here and put them on yourself!
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Seems like a lot of work just for 2 boats.
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Seems like a lot of work just for 2 boats.
What you only come on here for the pictures? That’s why you read one particular kinda magazines or something.
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My goodness, you didn't paint it good old red, white, and blue! All this fuss and effort to create the perfect HOW kayak trailer and it's not painted red, white, and blue..? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
(Good work, Mojo and crew.)
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My goodness, you didn't paint it good old red, white, and blue! All this fuss and effort to create the perfect HOW kayak trailer and it's not painted red, white, and blue..? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
(Good work, Mojo and crew.)
This is the guy who put the stickers on crooked - and also upside down...and you're want to give him more than one color of paint ?
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This is the guy who put the stickers on crooked - and also upside down...and you're want to give him more than one color of paint ?
Why yes, indeed I do. Mr. Jojo has two hands, he should be able to manage at least two colors, and if he uses his toes, four colors should be easy enough.
(Still thinking you did good, Mojo).
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if he uses his toes, four colors should be easy enough
I'll cover that bet.
But he HAS TO USE HIS TOES !!