Big Game and Mailbu comparison

It's been recommended that I look into the BG and Malibu for fishing, and as a new guy, Ihere's what I'm thinking:

I’m sure most all the kayaks are “wet” since that is their nature, but when you say the Big Game is wet, is that because of lack of drainage and it holds water, or because waves hit the outside hull and lap over, or does is come over the bow… to me, it's holding water. 

I’d get the Malibu, but after looking at it side-by-side, I’d guess the drain issue is significant, especially in the solo mode (middle seat has NO drains around it at all, and the heel wells in the foot rest hold about 2 cups of water each). 

Also, the foot wells in the BG are flat.  Not that I’d do a lot of standing, but just to kneel while grabbing rods from the holders, or kneeling to access gear in the bow, there is nowhere comfortable/level to kneel.  It seems you’re always on an uneven surface in the Malibu, whereas the BG has a cockpit area with flat hatch area under the thighs, and the flat foot wells, the console cover is flat for a working surface, and in front of the footwell it’s got that flat area for mounting whatever.  Sounds like I’m a BG commercial. 

I keep going back to the Malibu because I have kids that could fish or paddle, but after the side by side, I think it’s apples(a multi-use platform in the Malibu) being compared to oranges (fishing layout of a BG/Prowler).  The obvious solution is 2 boats to cover it all.

For fishing and work surface, I don't really see the Malibu as an option for me...but then I'm just a new guy too!

SO:
Is the BG significantly faster than the Malibu, or are they in the same class for 1-3 mile paddles?
The hulls below the waterline really differ.  Is one much more stable than the other?
Do the molded foot wells bug the Malibu users (not in pressing against the calf, but in terms of non-flat kneeling surfaces for standing/kneeling/gear)?

 Well I just bought a Malibu two XL today. I really like the Prowlers and Tridents for fishing (and plan on buying one eventually), but we decided to go with the Malibu two so the whole family could go out on the water together when we wanted to.
 I am not planning on going over board with rigging the Malibu two, just a couple of rod holders and a fish finder. I will post results of how well it works for fishing in the near future.

Is there a particular reason someone recommended the Malibu and the Big Game?  There are a lot of other fishing kayaks out there that might suit your needs.  Ocean Kayak Alone has many fishing kayaks other than the two you mentioned (Caper, Drifter, Prowler 13, Prowler 15, Scupper Pro, Trident 11, Trident 13,  and Trident 15).  Then there are various other makers of fishing kayaks, each with their own line of models. 

What do you want out of a kayak?  Do you want speed or stability?  Deck space or rigging options?  Hatches?  There are a lot of choices and everyone has their own opinions.  Do you want to paddle or peddle?   Personally, the Big Game and Malibu II would be near the bottom of my choices, but that's just me.

Where you located MHL?  Just like with car buying, the best option is to test drive (paddle) a few models before making the big purchase.  Maybe a member from this forum lives near you and they might arrange for you to test paddle their kayak.  Maybe there is local kayak shop that will let you test paddle a few kayaks.

Brian

Brian

Hi Brian, thanks for the comments.  I don't want to go back to the start of my search and rehash my choices, but originally the BG and Malibu were suggested because I'm 6'4", and have kids, but as I reviewed options, I found I probably need 2 boats to cover everything.
BTW I'm outside Seattle, and anticipate all saltwater use.

Back to the original questions:  Do you think boats are going towards flat footwells/surfaces, or it doesn't matter that much? Whether you fish or tour, people still kneel and crawl around, and I'm wondering if non-flat surfaces are an annoyance or not.  Are the Malibu footwells a problem for people in that they hold water, or is that insignificant?

 We bought the Malibu yesterday and I can tell you that at 6'4" you will have a hard time paddling the Malibu while it is in tandem mode. I am 6'2" and my knees are bent and about 6 inches off the yak while my feet are in the farthest foot well. However in solo mode there is plenty of leg room, my feet couldn't even reach the last foot hole.
  Other then that the Malibu is great. Very fast for a tandem. Handled great in the ocean today.

guys, look in the classifieds under ocean kayak, they have an accidental listing of a hobie odyssey which is a tandem, in bellingham.. call the lady and talk to her. sure it may not be new but it's a tandem and a good make.

I have not paddled the Malibu Two, but I  own a Big Game.  I can offer a few observations.  I think I may have been on of the folks recommending boats you should check out... if so, I was suggesting the X-Factor by the boat maker Malibu Kayaks (with it's "gator hatch" kids seat), not Ocean Kayak's tandem called the Malibu Two.

First, I'm not sure how the Big Game could possibly be classified as a wet ride.  From everything I read before I got mine, and personal experience paddling it, it is one of the driest rides you can find in a fishing kayak.  No water from chop, boat wakes, or waves up 1-2' has ever come over the bow of mine.  The bow is so wide, combined with a very steep flare to direct water away, that it is hard for me imagine water coming over.  Really, the only situation I could see that happening in is during surf launches, or in extreme wind waves (which will make any sit on top a wet ride).  If the weight you have in it is not balanced, you can get some small amount of standing water from your paddle drip, feet, etc... in the foot wells because it can't drain down the scuppers properly, but this water is nothing in comparison to the 2" or 3" my P-13 has in the foot wells, or my old Hobie Outback had.

Further, in terms of water coming up through the scuppers into the cockpit, you'd have to load the Big Game down with some serious weight (think 350# or more) to do that.

Now, my Big Game does have a problem with the center hatch not sealing well, and paddle drip finding its way into the hull of the yak.  That's a problem, but not the same thing as a wet ride.

I can't speak to wet/ride or the scuppers draining in the Malibu Two.

Kneeling is a bad idea in any kayak, even one as stable as the Big Game.  I generally don't use my main hatch when I'm out on the water, but if I need to I scoot forward and dangle my legs on either side of the boat.  Keeps your center of gravity low.  Kneeling is awkward in any kayak, and makes it quite unstable.  Plus it is really hard on the knees.  To me, the advantage of the Big Game's flat foot wells are that they stay dryer than the molded foot wells on a boat like my Prowler 13.

I don't think either the Big Game of the Malibu Two will every be called fast boats.  Paddling them solo, I'd imagine the Big Game would be less slow than the tandem, and easier to handle in the wind.  The hull design of the Big Game is all about stability and the ability to handle surf and big waves while providing a dry ride.  The Malibu Two strikes me as more of an all-around recreational design, with a pontoon-style hull that should also be very stable, but with more rocker that should make it easier to maneuver (at least when paddled by two people.)

The molded foot wells in my P-13 work great, and again, you don't want to kneel in them anyway.  The only draw back to them is that they will hold standing water more than the flat foot wells.  Not an issue if you are wearing waders or a dry suit, but it is an issue on those summer days when you want to fish wearing sandals and shorts.  2 or 3" of cold lake water in the foot wells gets old fast.

Again though, to clarify, if you are a big guy looking for a fishing kayak, the Big Game and Malibu X-Factor are among the boats most likely to fit you well.  The Ocean Kayak Malibu Two is not a boat I'd consider unless your normal paddling will be you plus a passenger.
 

 The Malibu two is a VERY dry ride. Even loaded down with two adults, a 9 year old and a 1 year old there is no water coming up through the scupper holes, and even on a windy day out in the ocean I did not have any issues with water coming over the sides.
 The Malibu two paddles well solo or tandem (I actually prefer it solo) and even against strong head winds yesterday on lake Marie it handled nice.
 I would agree with threeweight that unless your main use is going to be tandem I would go with the big game or X factor. 

THREEWEIGHT:  I've read that with more than 210 lbs in the BG, the footwells don't crain to scuppers, but rather slope back towards the paddler.  Is this so for you?

And to throw in the mix, I read in Kayak Angler mag that Malibu was releasing a Stealth, with a flat casting platform.  Any news on that?  No pic in the mag, so I emailed them.  It's 14'4" /33" same as the XFactor, but with a new deck layout.  I'll post their reply, but at $1300?? 

THREEWEIGHT:  I've read that with more than 210 lbs in the BG, the footwells don't crain to scuppers, but rather slope back towards the paddler.  Is this so for you? 

I don't have this problem on the BG I had.  I'm 220#.  Even at that water doesn't come in the scuppers so any water that might accumulate is just dripping in during use.  Hmmm, I think someone here had some issues with water collecting like you are saying.  Unlike the P15's which more or less just freely flows in for me at my weight.  But hey, you're kayaking, it's a wet sport.

-Allen

The foot wells not draining the scuppers is because the weight in the kayak is not balanced, too much in the back, not enough in the front.  Scupper holes in the Big Game foot wells are located in the front.  In mine, this can lead to maybe 1/4 or 1/2" of water in the back of the foot wells... this may seem significant, but really, you should paddle a couple boats for comparison.  That's nothing, and actually a lot dryer than most.  When we talk about boats being a "wet ride" it generally means water coming over the bow and into your lap in rough water, or the cockpit itself holding water in its low areas all the time because the boat rides low and water comes up through the scuppers (this is the case with my P-13). 

At 210#, the BG is only halfway to its weight capacity.  I believe Stealhdr (Jay) was the guy who had this issue, and we determined it to be the result of a lot of weight in his tank well and milk crate at the back of the boat, and none in his forward hatch compartment.

$1300 bucks is a lot of money.  I'd stick with the X-Factor or Big Game myself, unless you plan on doing a lot of fly fishing where you need to stand.  Even so, the Big Game and the X have pretty large flat areas to stand on as well.  There's a X-Factor on Craigslist for $800 right now.  Were I in the market, I'd offer the guy $600 cash and see if he'd take it.

If you are in the Portland area, you'd be welcome to test drive my BG sometime.

Thanks for the info.  Those were just the opinions I was looking for. I agree about the price on the Stealth.  Only problem with test driving is the malinu rep is 3 hours away/ ain't gonna happen.  I saw that one on  craigslsit, but I'm gonna let it season a bit, he's 3 hours away too, and he's also where Oceans are made, so I think there msut be better deals up that way.  Soon though, as I don't wanna miss the coho run over the next 6 weeks.
Thanks again,
Mark