Dry Suit Safety Questions

This year's a huge improvement over last, safety-wise for me in that I actually HAVE a dry suit (thanks Zee), a Kokatat Tropos SuperNova.  I've been going out alot fishing and also doing some testing (getting wet) and there's a some big questions I have about using it...

First, I understand the idea of the dry suit to be that wearing it, with proper insulating layers underneath, will considerably slow the reduction of your core body temperature in the (hopefully unlikely) event you end up in the water.  I also understand that it's not meant to keep you warm indefinitely, it's just meant to buy you some extra time to get back on a kayak, be rescued, or get to shore.

Kokatat says their tropos material is waterproof and breathable, which I guess is true if there's no physical exertion.  But when your paddling/pedaling out there you get sweaty, and in effect your body is inside a ziploc bag.  There's no "waterproof, breathable" fabric in the world that would allow that kind of moisture out, even gore-tex.  If you are wet on the *inside* of the dry suit and then end up in the drink...the "action" of the dry suit is effectively compromised because there is no longer a dry barrier between you and the water.  So, therein lies the rub.  The very waterproof nature of the dry suit seems to make it somewhat unsafe under normal kayaking conditions.  In my experience, it's impossible to kayak without sweating.  *Especially* during warm weather.

Now, I do understand that the insulating layers worn underneath should be synthetic, to "wick away" moisture from your skin.  And those I do have, but without fail, when I remove my dry suit after kayaking I am soaked with sweat despite the action of these synthetic fibers.  The waterproof layer just doesn't let out enough moisture.  The problem will exacerbate when the warm layers are reduced in summer.

One might say I need to reduce the exertion level, not sweat so much...but that would defeat the entire purpose of kayaking for me.  One of the big reasons I do it is because I like the exercise.  Otherwise I'd just get a boat.  And even if I did reduce my exertion level, warm sunny weather will sweat you even without exertion.

Am I using the drysuit incorrectly, or maybe reading the situation wrong?  Perhaps there is no perfect solution.  I know that even with sweat and all, I'm still way better off with the drysuit on.  But I was wondering if people out there have pondered the same issues and maybe come to some conclusions.

Second question is, do you tether yourself to your kayak?  It seems to me that the biggest issue isn't how warm you stay when you're in the drink (because a dry suit won't keep you warm forever), but how quickly you can get out of the water in the event of a capsize.  And if you do capsize, it's probably due to strong wind/waves/tide rips that are also going to do their damndest to separate you from your kayak if you're overboard.  Obviously we try our best to avoid these conditions, but we should also be prepared for them in case we're caught be surprise.

I have a 50' towline wound up in a hip pack that I wear, the end of which I snap to something secure on the kayak.  If I go over and get separated from my kayak I know I can just tug on that line and get back to the yak.  However, I don't know if this is considered a no-no or not.  The one danger I see is that if you go over in wild conditions, the towline could unravel and tangle you up.  The way I see it now, the benefit outweighs the risk.  But I wanted to see what you guys did.

Any thoughts appreciated!

While synthetic fabrics do in fact wick the moisture away, they ALSO retain insulation properties when wet.  Particularaly polyester fleece.  So, even though you are wet with prespiration inside the 'dry' suit, it's still going to work, because you don't have direct contact with ocean/lake water, the sweat inside will retain some heat as it isn't exchanged with the water your swimming in, and the insulating clothing underneath will still insulate.

Tethering yourself to a kayak sounds really dangerous to me.

Tethering yourself to a kayak sounds really dangerous to me.

Depends on the conditions.  Have you ever seen the videos that Aloha Dan put together showing how fast a kayak can get beyond your reach even in a just a little bit of wind?

-Allen

Depends on the conditions.  Have you ever seen the videos that Aloha Dan put together showing how fast a kayak can get beyond your reach even in a just a little bit of wind?

Well, that was my original thinking too.  And I've seen some naaaaasty tide rips, like out by deception pass.  Doesn't seem like it'd be hard to lose your kayak if you went over in that (obviously better to avoid it altogether).  I figure the tangle risk is reduced since it's a very loose tether (50') and if worse comes to worse comes to worse I could pull the safety knife on my PFD, which has both a very sharp side and a serrated side, and get thru it.  Did some self-rescue testing at samish and didn't get tangled, but then again, that's very different than wild conditions.

Most people don't tether to a kayak, but most surf skiers do....It's best to train yourself to hang on to the boat and paddle. Typically people will have a spare paddle for stuff like that.

Mostly, it's probably better to seperate from the boat if it's at that point. you are like a sea anchor, the boat like a feather. It will slam into rocks much easier than your dead weight.

Really you just have to train yourself to hang on when you dump it.

Jason

PP

Can you throw up a link to that Aloha Dan vid please? I recognize the mechanics of the situation. I was crabbing in Siletz Bay a few years back and a dude that was kite boarding had both the wind and tide working against him. He couldn't get enough tension on the line to stand up. We heard his screams and my bro pulled him aboard much to close to the mouth for my liking. My 15 hp honda got us all back to the dentist's office where we dumped his grateful ass and we went back and kept pulling pots. However, I can see where tether makes not much difference when wind is pulling faster than you can swim. Good case for carrying fins if catch up is the issue?

In general, it sounds like a bad idea.  If you're inclined to go out in conditions like that, then I reckon a tether is a decent idea, but then again, not going out in conditions like that is a good idea too.

I've kayaked D pass at 8kts. It's actually a pretty mellow as far as rough water goes if you have good skills/experience. We teach classes there called "tides & currents"

The thing we teach in basic skills kayaking is the wet exit, and the biggest part of that is holding on to your boat and paddle. Of course when you can roll, it's not much of an issue.

If D pass seems intimidating, you're not ready to venture there without someone who is.

But please trust me on this one, a tether is not the way to go.

Jason

OK - thanks for the feedback guys!

As far as your breathability question, it's about temperature differential. If it's 20F outside and 99F inside your suit, you can bet your bottom it's going to breathe. if it's 65 outside and 99 inside the suit, it's going to breathe much less. 80 out and 99 in, you're going to fill the suit with sweat.

Experimenting with base layers is the key. You'll find that you have certain set ups that work better with different weather. For me, if the sun is out, even if it's cold I layer less. Solar radiation gives us 15 extra degrees. If it's cloudy I dress warmer. If it's raining warmer still.

In July in the SJ's, I wear shorts and short sleeves under the suit if it's sunny.

awesome...good to know

Tethering yourself to a kayak sounds really dangerous to me.

This has been a sticking point for me for a while. It's always sounded like a bad idea to me as well, but I've found that "feather" of a boat can go a lot faster than I'm can swim in surprisingly light winds and conditions. I tried it up at Timothy Lake a couple of years back and the boat can get scooting pretty good very quickly. The wind was clipping along pretty good that day but I have fished in worst conditions.

On the other hand, current only driven boats and paddles travel at about the same relative speed as the swimmer downhill, but wind, rocks, strainers and low head dams can quickly change that relationship. I don't think I'd want to be tethered in any of those last three scenarios.

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,393.msg3408.html#msg3408

It will slam into rocks much easier than your dead weight.

Really you just have to train yourself to hang on when you dump it.

Jason

Would I stay teatherd on my way to the rocks? No

 But in open water where the choice is to have a boat to float on or a looooong swim, tethering does not seem like such a bad option.

The other situation that we probably should not be in in the first place is anchored in current. I took a dip a OC during Shad Madness a few more years back and I guess I have "trained" myself to hang on to the boat, but I would not want to count on that. If I'd missed my catch, I would have been down to Clackamette Park before I made the bank. Swimming against the current is for salmon and other anadromous fishys.

 But at least that was in a river with a bank in the neighborhood, being swept out of the jaws of a river into the big briny sounds like even less fun without a boat. 

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=55154&highlight=shad+madness  (read posts 12, 20  and 24)