ORC Safety Concerns/Issues

I thought it would be good to start a thread to discuss the safety issues you witnessed or were involved in at ORC. I'd say overall it was another fantastic NWKA event but with 60-70 people on the water there was bound to be an issue or two. Let's try and keep this focused on what you witnessed (the facts) and how we as a group can use it as a learning experience (your opinion). If you happened to be one of the guys that ended up in the water and are willing to share, I think there would be a lot of benefit to the group.

On Saturday, I think around 9:00 am, I heard a call on the radio that two guys were in the water off Government Point and couldn't get back in. The person making the radio call was attempting to assist them. It might have been John Hayashibara, but I'm really not sure. I responded and asked if he thought they needed assistance from the coast guard. He responded he wasn't sure. At that point I flagged down one of the whale watching boats that was heading in that direction and asked them to assist. I then asked the nwka guy to flip to channel 80 and direct the whale boat to the kayakers in need. I followed the whale boat to the scene from my position off Pirate's cove. It probably took me about 15 minutes or so to get up there. When I arrived I found Dino working to get a guy re situated in his outback. He was out of the water but appeared to be wearing just waders and a rain jacket. He decided he wanted to stay out and after checking with him and Dino I got back to fishing. The second guy had been given a lift back to the ramp from the whale boat. I heard second hand from the guys there that kayaker one had flipped, and kayaker two had attempted to assist him and also went in. I believe neither of them were able to get back into their kayaks without assistance. A huge thumbs up to Dino and the other guys that helped them at the scene.

On my way back in I talked with someone else that mentioned there was third guy that went in and needed assistance to get back into his boat. I can't however recall who it was. I was pretty tired at that point 

I did not witness the full event first hand, so I don't want to get overly judgmental on what anyone should have done, but I will share my thoughts on going out on the Ocean in general.

1-You should be dressed for immersion any time you are in the Ocean. My FF showed a 46 degree water temperature and it wouldn't take long before your muscles start to weaken and it becomes more and more difficult to re-enter your kayak.
2-You should be very comfortable with reentry into your kayak. With practice it should be fluid and easy.
3-Fishing with an experienced buddy is always the best approach. Especially if you are new to the salt.
4-Carry a VHF and know how to use it. If you don't have one, stay within earshot of your buddy at all times. Ask them to always make sure they have eyes on you.
5-Know your limits. Follow the advice of your salty buddies and don't push beyond your abilities.

Does anyone else want to share?

Noah it was me you talked to about the 3rd guy. I was looking the other way when he went in, but I was there for the aftermath. Poor guy lost a ton of gear. Looked like everything but his leashed rod.
He was having issues getting back in to his Revo. Roy (Coosbayer)  was there to offer step by step instructions assisting the kayaker in getting back in, but the guy was really struggling. You don't realize just how cold that water is until you're in neck deep. The rolling swells and wind made re-entry very difficult. The guy was completely exhausted when he finally made it back in with the help of a few NWKA members.
I don't know if the guy had practiced self rescue much. A few important takeaways I made mental note of having witnessed the guy bobbing around helplessly:
1) practice re-entry as much as possible and in different waters like lakes, rivers, and the ocean. Do it while accompanies by someone in case you need help.
2) layer properly. Dry gear are great at keeping you dry. But suck at keeping you warm.
3) leash everything you want to continue owning long term.
4) carry a waterproof radio, keep it charged, keep it clipped to your PFD. It that guy didn't fall out next to half a dozen other kayakers, I'm not entirely convinced he could have caught his boat and gotten back in alone. Those seas were rolling. Having a waterproof radio can help you hail assistance even when it gets wet.

I saw at least 4 people clustered around the channel bouy... fishing.  This was around 11am, and I was watching from up on the cliff.

Thinking long term on how to mitigate the threat of serious consequence; It's extremely difficult to regulate things like appropriate under-layering, re-entry ability and swimming ability but we can introduce a buddy system and group VHF requirement.

I'd love to hear from the people involved to understand what went wrong and what they think might have helped in their situation.

One thing was obvious though.  NWKA members take each other's safety very seriously.  As I listened to the VHF and watched from a distance, I could clearly see that everybody close enough to offer assistance did so without hesitation and leaders took charge to coordinate the efforts.

-Spot-

I thought it would be good to start a thread to discuss the safety issues you witnessed or were involved in at ORC. I'd say overall it was another fantastic NWKA event but with 60-70 people on the water there was bound to be an issue or two. Let's try and keep this focused on what you witnessed (the facts) and how we as a group can use it as a learning experience (your opinion). If you happened to be one of the guys that ended up in the water and are willing to share, I think there would be a lot of benefit to the group.

On Saturday, I think around 9:00 am, I heard a call on the radio that two guys were in the water off Government Point and couldn't get back in. The person making the radio call was attempting to assist them. It might have been John Hayashibara, but I'm really not sure. I responded and asked if he thought they needed assistance from the coast guard. He responded he wasn't sure. At that point I flagged down one of the whale watching boats that was heading in that direction and asked them to assist. I then asked the nwka guy to flip to channel 80 and direct the whale boat to the kayakers in need. I followed the whale boat to the scene from my position off Pirate's cove. It probably took me about 15 minutes or so to get up there. When I arrived I found Dino working to get a guy re situated in his outback. He was out of the water but appeared to be wearing just waders and a rain jacket. He decided he wanted to stay out and after checking with him and Dino I got back to fishing. The second guy had been given a lift back to the ramp from the whale boat. I heard second hand from the guys there that kayaker one had flipped, and kayaker two had attempted to assist him and also went in. I believe neither of them were able to get back into their kayaks without assistance. A huge thumbs up to Dino and the other guys that helped them at the scene.

On my way back in I talked with someone else that mentioned there was third guy that went in and needed assistance to get back into his boat. I can't however recall who it was. I was pretty tired at that point 

I did not witness the full event first hand, so I don't want to get overly judgmental on what anyone should have done, but I will share my thoughts on going out on the Ocean in general.

1-You should be dressed for immersion any time you are in the Ocean. My FF showed a 46 degree water temperature and it wouldn't take long before your muscles start to weaken and it becomes more and more difficult to re-enter your kayak.
2-You should be very comfortable with reentry into your kayak. With practice it should be fluid and easy.
3-Fishing with an experienced buddy is always the best approach. Especially if you are new to the salt.
4-Carry a VHF and know how to use it. If you don't have one, stay within earshot of your buddy at all times. Ask them to always make sure they have eyes on you.
5-Know your limits. Follow the advice of your salty buddies and don't push beyond your abilities.

Does anyone else want to share?

Was me that radio it in. First the guy in the Red kayak fell out and was yelling for help. The blue kayak and I turned to go help, then I saw both of them in the water.  The blue kayak was closer, so I headed over and radioed because I couldnt deal with 2 people.  Its hard to be dealing with someone and use the radio, so my information I was giving out was basic (sorry)  I was at the blue outback trying to flip it back over and have Jim I think stay calm when I think Ou went to help out the Red kayak where the zodiac came.  Justin came to help stabilize my kayak as I pulled Jim into his kayak.  We made sure he was okay then you and I went north.

I thought it would be good to start a thread to discuss the safety issues you witnessed or were involved in at ORC. I'd say overall it was another fantastic NWKA event but with 60-70 people on the water there was bound to be an issue or two. Let's try and keep this focused on what you witnessed (the facts) and how we as a group can use it as a learning experience (your opinion). If you happened to be one of the guys that ended up in the water and are willing to share, I think there would be a lot of benefit to the group.

On Saturday, I think around 9:00 am, I heard a call on the radio that two guys were in the water off Government Point and couldn't get back in. The person making the radio call was attempting to assist them. It might have been John Hayashibara, but I'm really not sure. I responded and asked if he thought they needed assistance from the coast guard. He responded he wasn't sure. At that point I flagged down one of the whale watching boats that was heading in that direction and asked them to assist. I then asked the nwka guy to flip to channel 80 and direct the whale boat to the kayakers in need. I followed the whale boat to the scene from my position off Pirate's cove. It probably took me about 15 minutes or so to get up there. When I arrived I found Dino working to get a guy re situated in his outback. He was out of the water but appeared to be wearing just waders and a rain jacket. He decided he wanted to stay out and after checking with him and Dino I got back to fishing. The second guy had been given a lift back to the ramp from the whale boat. I heard second hand from the guys there that kayaker one had flipped, and kayaker two had attempted to assist him and also went in. I believe neither of them were able to get back into their kayaks without assistance. A huge thumbs up to Dino and the other guys that helped them at the scene.

On my way back in I talked with someone else that mentioned there was third guy that went in and needed assistance to get back into his boat. I can't however recall who it was. I was pretty tired at that point 

I did not witness the full event first hand, so I don't want to get overly judgmental on what anyone should have done, but I will share my thoughts on going out on the Ocean in general.

1-You should be dressed for immersion any time you are in the Ocean. My FF showed a 46 degree water temperature and it wouldn't take long before your muscles start to weaken and it becomes more and more difficult to re-enter your kayak.
2-You should be very comfortable with reentry into your kayak. With practice it should be fluid and easy.
3-Fishing with an experienced buddy is always the best approach. Especially if you are new to the salt.
4-Carry a VHF and know how to use it. If you don't have one, stay within earshot of your buddy at all times. Ask them to always make sure they have eyes on you.
5-Know your limits. Follow the advice of your salty buddies and don't push beyond your abilities.

Does anyone else want to share?

Was me that radio it in. First the guy in the Red kayak fell out and was yelling for help. The blue kayak and I turned to go help, then I saw both of them in the water.  The blue kayak was closer, so I headed over and radioed because I couldnt deal with 2 people.  Its hard to be dealing with someone and use the radio, so my information I was giving out was basic (sorry)  I was at the blue outback trying to flip it back over and have Jim I think stay calm when I think Ou went to help out the Red kayak where the zodiac came.  Justin came to help stabilize my kayak as I pulled Jim into his kayak.  We made sure he was okay then you and I went north.

You did a great job relaying the necessary information, especially while working to help the two guys in need.

I heard the distress call on the radio and was able to determine that the location of the overboard guys was just behind me. It was difficult to spot where exactly they were due to the swells, but eventually I saw a kayak that was missing it's safety flag and its human cargo. I did my best to provide moral support and stood by trying to figure out how to solve the problem of getting a kayaker back into his kayak without getting my hair wet. I had never really thought of this so I had a duh moment when I saw one of the rescuers hand a paddle to the distressed kayaker across the empty kayak. I knew that any other attempt to assist would likely end up with extra upside down yaks. Kudos to the gentleman that knew how to assist. The Zodiac picked up the other kayaker that was south of us a hundred yards or so. The Ocean shows no mercy and I know how different this outcome could have been if there wasn't the right people in the right place. Good learning experience for me in how to assist in that situation for the future.

Thinking long term on how to mitigate the threat of serious consequence; It's extremely difficult to regulate things like appropriate under-layering, re-entry ability and swimming ability but we can introduce a buddy system and group VHF requirement.

I'd love to hear from the people involved to understand what went wrong and what they think might have helped in their situation.

One thing was obvious though.  NWKA members take each other's safety very seriously.  As I listened to the VHF and watched from a distance, I could clearly see that everybody close enough to offer assistance did so without hesitation and leaders took charge to coordinate the efforts.

-Spot-

 A buddy system requiring at least one VHF might need serious thought.

 Thank goodness the outcome was not a fatality. Good job guys.

I didn't witness any unsafe incidents, but I want to add my thoughts on carrying a VHF radio. I have only been on the ocean once without one - it was my first time on the salt, and in conditions very similar to what we had at ORC. My buddy had a VHF, and I thought that I was OK if I stayed with him. The fact is that it is difficult to stay in earshot, because earshot with a 10 knot wind and 4' swells is a lot closer than you may think. I had a hard time staying within shouting distance of my buddy (who is hard of hearing anyway), and it really became clear to me that with the large swells hiding me from sight and the wind carrying away my voice, I was effectively alone out there. I went out a bought my own VHF radio when I got home.

If you are going to be on dangerous waters - get a VHF radio, keep it charged, keep it attached to you, and have somebody on the receiving end!

I didn't witness any unsafe incidents, but I want to add my thoughts on carrying a VHF radio. I have only been on the ocean once without one - it was my first time on the salt, and in conditions very similar to what we had at ORC. My buddy had a VHF, and I thought that I was OK if I stayed with him. The fact is that it is difficult to stay in earshot, because earshot with a 10 knot wind and 4' swells is a lot closer than you may think. I had a hard time staying within shouting distance of my buddy (who is hard of hearing anyway), and it really became clear to me that with the large swells hiding me from sight and the wind carrying away my voice, I was effectively alone out there. I went out a bought my own VHF radio when I got home.

If you are going to be on dangerous waters - get a VHF radio, keep it charged, keep it attached to you, and have somebody on the receiving end!

+1.

Relying on a buddy to carry a VHF radio is impractical in real life conditions where you won't always be in shouting distance of your buddy.  The best person to look out for you is YOU.  Be prepared.  Any questions?  Ask here, there will be more than enough people to help point you in the right direction.

-Allen

1-You should be dressed for immersion any time you are in the Ocean. My FF showed a 46 degree water temperature and it wouldn't take long before your muscles start to weaken and it becomes more and more difficult to re-enter your kayak.
2-You should be very comfortable with reentry into your kayak. With practice it should be fluid and easy.
3-Fishing with an experienced buddy is always the best approach. Especially if you are new to the salt.
4-Carry a VHF and know how to use it. If you don't have one, stay within earshot of your buddy at all times. Ask them to always make sure they have eyes on you.
5-Know your limits. Follow the advice of your salty buddies and don't push beyond your abilities.

Does anyone else want to share?

I agree with all five.  I strongly feel that the proper immersion gear (dry suit or wet suit) are life savers.  Without radios nobody could have helped these guy's or last years.  Our radios are what has kept a bad situations from getting worse.

bluewxr02  you did a great job on the radio I new I was to far to help and watched the whale watching boat go to your location and come back.
Did anybody thank the charter company that helped out?  Was that a Trades winds boat or the other charter company?

Dana

I wasn't at ORC but I'll chime in on the safety aspect. First off I understand ORC is a different animal than most other situations because you have a pluthera of other kayakers within close distance.
A VHF should be considered a last ditch resource.
You should not count on your radio to bring you help under most circumstances. I believe that every kayaker should have the ability and be confident that you can self rescue should need arise. It is a skill that needs to be practiced. And taking your kayak down to the local lake during the summer and rolling it over a few times does not count.
You must be able to self rescure even once you are tired.
Go for a quick run. Do some push ups. Paddle a couple miles. Then sprint in your kayak. Now that you are tired start practicing your self rescue.

I wasn't at ORC but I'll chime in on the safety aspect. First off I understand ORC is a different animal than most other situations because you have a pluthera of other kayakers within close distance.
A VHF should be considered a last ditch resource.
You should not count on your radio to bring you help under most circumstances. I believe that every kayaker should have the ability and be confident that you can self rescue should need arise. It is a skill that needs to be practiced. And taking your kayak down to the local lake during the summer and rolling it over a few times does not count.
You must be able to self rescure even once you are tired.
Go for a quick run. Do some push ups. Paddle a couple miles. Then sprint in your kayak. Now that you are tired start practicing your self rescue.

I don't think "last ditch" is the correct wording.  I wouldn't hesitate to issue a pan-pan call immediately, just to put the Coast Guard on alert.  I was about to on this incident, but it sounded like the Coast Guard was in the loop coordinating with the whale boat and the kayak anglers on the water lending assistance.  At last year's incident, it took quite awhile for the Coast Guard to get a boat ready to even leave the harbor as the one on duty was out to sea on another call.  IMO, just alerting them to the possibility of an issue is time well spent.

But yes, we should all know how to self rescue in ANY situation.

-Allen

I wasn't out there for any of that, but wanted to chime in and say, for anyone possibly reading this next year for 2014 ORC, safety is literally life and death - you don't realize it until you feel how cold the water is and see six feet of it coming at you sideways because you weren't watching.  I had been out in the salt a couple times prior, and a ton in choppy lakes / rivers, but this was a completely foreign environment.

I was in a Revo 11 that I was only really comfortable going out in because I had the ama kit - which one side failed on me out in those (six?) foot swells, which lead to a few thoughts:

1) How well do I really know this boat?
2) How cold is the water?  MY GOD THAT'S COLD.  How long could I stay dunked in that?
3) I've seen a ton of videos on self rescue - pretty sure I could do it in a lake - what about with these swells?  Most likely not.
4) I have dry socks/pants... but this rain jacket is *not* a dry top.  How long could I survive floating in that water?
5) Could I handle a fish dragging me around in these conditions?  Could I handle a boat sneaking up on me and putting me through the washing machine?

Once I realized I was actually in a pretty dangerous situation, I high tailed it to shore.  Yes, I missed out on the big competition, and I had to fess up to everyone back at camp that I "wimped out", but I didn't die... and next year I'll be much better equipped.

Once I realized I was actually in a pretty dangerous situation, I high tailed it to shore.  Yes, I missed out on the big competition, and I had to fess up to everyone back at camp that I "wimped out", but I didn't die... and next year I'll be much better equipped.

Kudos to you. It goes back to what Noah was saying about knowing your limits and it sounds like you found yours for that particular day. I applaud your awareness and knowing when to call it a day. By next year, I'm sure you'll have a lot more experience being out in the swells and you'll be able to expand your comfort level.