how much water inside the outback hull is acceptable

Merz, take as good of pictures as you can of the crack as well as the serial number because Hobie is going to want to see that information. You'll then give those pictures to your dealer where you got the boat. After the dealer shows those pictures to Hobie and "if" they get the approval your new hull will be ordered. It's between Hobie and your dealer whether or not they replace your boat from the dealers inventory or if Hobie will send a new boat on the next order. That's between hobie and your dealer. Please don't mark my words on all this is only what I've seen happen in the past but is not a guarantee. Hope this helps

Thanks for the info. I will take some pictures and let him know what i have learned through others experiences. I'll let you guys know what happens.

I found mine by sticking my head inside the hatch. The crack is very hard to see from the outside, but from inside the hatch i can see light shining in through the crack. Drive well cracks are common on the front and back of the well. I would set your kayak out in the sun or have someone shine a light on it while you stick your head in the hatches and look around.

Thanks Merz! Going do that now seeing how the Outback has not been on the water since the incident......will we be seeing you Wednesday and Thursday?

I will be out there wednesday or thursday. Maybe both days if conditions are really nice. I will be fishing tomorrow also.

I will be out there wednesday or thursday. Maybe both days if conditions are really nice. I will be fishing tomorrow also.

SWEET!

Merz, skim through the thread concerning my drive well crack on my 2006 Outback.

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11038.0

It started with a little water but progressed to gallons in a very short time. I took photos and worked directly through Hobie since my "dealer" wasn't inclined to help me.
I ended up paying shipping for a brand new 2013 hull and they let me keep my old one...I purchased a V2 drive for the new hull and ended up with two boats.

I performed the repair that's in my thread to both the cracked forward well and proactively "repaired" the aft well on the old boat and even "beefed up" those areas of the new boat to prevent future damage. The old boat is bone dry after almost a year and dozens of fresh and salt water trips. In fact, my old boat is still my favorite and I use it more than the new one...It's got much stronger Mojo than the new boat for some reason.

If you go that road and have any questions about the repair, PM me and I'll send you some better pictures and description.

Good luck

If you locate a crack, you can reduce the chances that the crack will get longer by drililng a small hole, perhaps 1/8" in diameter, at each end of the crack.  If Hobie refuses to replace the hull, but the crack doesn't appear to be getting longer, you can seal the crack temporarily with duct tape, or permanently with raft repair fabric glued down with vinyl glue.  I'd cover both the inside and the outside of the crack.  If the crack is on the bottom of the kayak where the patch is exposed to abrasion, I suggest that you cover the patch with a layer or so of duct tape.  If the duct tape starts getting ground off or peeled up, you can replace it before the abrasion or peeling gets into the patch itself.

To locate the crack, you could try turning off the lights in your garage and running a trouble light around inside the kayak.  That would be easier than sticking your head into the front hatch, or trying to view the inside of the kayak with a mirror held inside one of the round hatches.

This is concerning to me as my Outback was a demo.......is the warranty any different being a demo?

Langcod........Jammer.......anybody have an answer for my above question???

If Hobie refuses to replace the hull, but the crack doesn't appear to be getting longer, you can seal the crack temporarily with duct tape, or permanently with raft repair fabric glued down with vinyl glue.  I'd cover both the inside and the outside of the crack.  If the crack is on the bottom of the kayak where the patch is exposed to abrasion, I suggest that you cover the patch with a layer or so of duct tape.  If the duct tape starts getting ground off, you can replace it before the abrasion gets into the patch itself.

Unfortunately these cracks develop due to the stress loads of the mirage drive. Usually the cracks are really hard to see and don't leak statically...once you start kicking the drive the crack "opens up" and allows water in...not sure how effective duct tape would be. 
 
The repair I elude to in my prior post consists of reinforcing the structure with glass-reinforced G-flex epoxy...for good measure, I "laid up" the repair area with a couple layers of glass mat.

If you locate a crack, you can reduce the chances that the crack will get longer by drililng a small hole, perhaps 1/8" in diameter, at each end of the crack.   If Hobie refuses to replace the hull, but the crack doesn't appear to be getting longer, you can seal the crack temporarily with duct tape, or permanently with raft repair fabric glued down with vinyl glue.  I'd cover both the inside and the outside of the crack.  If the crack is on the bottom of the kayak where the patch is exposed to abrasion, I suggest that you cover the patch with a layer or so of duct tape.  If the duct tape starts getting ground off, you can replace it before the abrasion gets into the patch itself.

Unfortunately these cracks develop due to the stress loads of the mirage drive. Usually the cracks are really hard to see and don't leak statically...once you start kicking the drive the crack "opens up" and allows water in...not sure how effective duct tape would be. 
 
The repair I elude to in my prior post consists of reinforcing the structure with glass-reinforced G-flex epoxy...for good measure, I "laid up" the repair area with a couple layers of glass mat.

Yeah, duct tape (or even raft repair tape) won't even come close to cutting it.

That said, drilling out the end of the crack, and then performing Nangusdog's repair would probably be a good idea.  The end of any crack is basically a super sharp corner.  You can think of it as a corner with an infinitesimal radius.  Since the smaller the radius in a corner the higher the stress concentration factor (K), that not-quite-zero radius drives K up towards infinity and causes the crack to grow even with relatively low loads.  Drilling out the end of the crack increases that effective radius and reduces K to something the material might be able to tolerate.

This is concerning to me as my Outback was a demo.......is the warranty any different being a demo?

Langcod........Jammer.......anybody have an answer for my above question???

You'll obviously get a better answer from Langcod or Fiskari as they're employees of Hobie dealers, but I think that demos get sold with the same warranty as new boats.  Depends though on the contract between the shop and Hobie I'd imagine.

If you locate a crack, you can reduce the chances that the crack will get longer by drililng a small hole, perhaps 1/8" in diameter, at each end of the crack.   If Hobie refuses to replace the hull, but the crack doesn't appear to be getting longer, you can seal the crack temporarily with duct tape, or permanently with raft repair fabric glued down with vinyl glue.  I'd cover both the inside and the outside of the crack.  If the crack is on the bottom of the kayak where the patch is exposed to abrasion, I suggest that you cover the patch with a layer or so of duct tape.  If the duct tape starts getting ground off, you can replace it before the abrasion gets into the patch itself.

Unfortunately these cracks develop due to the stress loads of the mirage drive. Usually the cracks are really hard to see and don't leak statically...once you start kicking the drive the crack "opens up" and allows water in...not sure how effective duct tape would be. 
 
The repair I elude to in my prior post consists of reinforcing the structure with glass-reinforced G-flex epoxy...for good measure, I "laid up" the repair area with a couple layers of glass mat.

Yeah, duct tape (or even raft repair tape) won't even come close to cutting it.

That said, drilling out the end of the crack, and then performing Nangusdog's repair would probably be a good idea.  The end of any crack is basically a super sharp corner.  You can think of it as a corner with an infinitesimal radius.  Since the smaller the radius in a corner the higher the stress concentration factor (K), that not-quite-zero radius drives K up towards infinity and causes the crack to grow even with relatively low loads.  Drilling out the end of the crack increases that effective radius and reduces K to something the material might be able to tolerate.

The kayak repair kit which I carry on multi-day whitewater kayak trips includes several pieces of raft repair fabric and vinyl glue, and I’ve used these materials to repair several cracked kayaks with excellent success.  Because the fabric and the glue are flexible, If you drill holes at the ends of the crack to keep the crack from getting longer, the repair holds up under considerable banging over rocks.  Here are a couple pictures of us repairing a whitewater kayak with raft repair fabric and vinyl glue.  This kayak developed a crack on a four-day unsupported kayak trip on the Jarbidge and Bruneau Rivers in Idaho.  The patch didn’t leak at all, and the owner continued to use the kayak for some pretty aggressive creek boating for a month or so after the trip until he got the kayak replaced under warranty.





Here's the patch running Wally's Wallow Rapid.



For another example, on the second day of a nine-day kayak trip on the Rio Atengo in Mexico, the borrowed kayak I was using developed a hole underneath its seat from grinding over rocks.  I had to take the seat out (a big deal with a whitewater kayak) and patch the inside of the hole with raft repair fabric.  Pictures I took on that trip are on the Sierrarios.org website at http://www.sierrarios.org/SlideshowPages/SlidesAtengo1.html , http://www.sierrarios.org/SlideshowPages/SlidesAtengo2.html , and http://www.sierrarios.org/SlideshowPages/SlidesAtengo3.html.  I think it would be fair to say that the trip was a good test of the effectiveness of raft fabric patches and vinyl glue.

This is concerning to me as my Outback was a demo.......is the warranty any different being a demo?

Langcod........Jammer.......anybody have an answer for my above question???

You'll obviously get a better answer from Langcod or Fiskari as they're employees of Hobie dealers, but I think that demos get sold with the same warranty as new boats.  Depends though on the contract between the shop and Hobie I'd imagine.

Thank you sumpNZ

pmmpete - Not doubting the efficacy of your repairs.  But Hobie drive drivewells are subject to a very different loading environment.  A repair that works well on the bottom of a boat might not work as well elsewhere.

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=44141

The responding comment is from Jacques Bernier one of The two Hobie warranty guys.

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=47840&p=211618&hilit=demo+warranty#p211618

Also Matt Miller the parts director.

Yes, warranty is valid on demos, which is supremely bizarre in the Paddlesports world. Jammer has perfectly outlined the warranty process. More documentation is always good!

Patching a drive well crack is next to impossible!!!
The area affected is subject to high stress and almost completely unsupported.
I fought a drive well crack for nearly a year before I nearly sank my boat. I got a replacement hull and couldn't be happier.