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Topic: Sit on top vs sit in?  (Read 15023 times)

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Dirk1730

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Location: Sumner wa
  • Date Registered: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 306
I am going to have to disagree with you here. First off I am a SOT guy but there are a few principles that apply regardless of your back ground or ability. A SINK relies on a paddler and paddle for most of its primary stability. When you are fishing you do not have a paddle in your hands, you have a fishing pole. In most cases you are going to be fine with the boats great secondary stability but when you rely on the secondary stability you loose the fail safe of extra stability that a SOT affords you.
Basically what it boils down to is if you want to catch big fish from a kayak you better be one hell of a boatsman in a SINK or just buy a fishing specific boat.
Get the right boat and you can hang with nearly any sea SINK.

Does this mean you'll be joining me rounding Cape Flattery? In 10 years I've never seen a SOT fish out there.
I've made it to duncan with my outback.
BETTER TO HAVE A BROKEN BONE, THAN A BROKEN SPIRIT.


Dirk1730

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Location: Sumner wa
  • Date Registered: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 306
If you can't maintain speed and drink a beer, you have lost all respect for fishing.
In a worse case scenario, a sot has to just remount his boat and pick up his gear, a sink has to swim 600lbs of water laden kayak across what ever body of water he is fishing.
But you can always say, That will never happen to me.
BETTER TO HAVE A BROKEN BONE, THAN A BROKEN SPIRIT.


Nangusdog

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Live to fish, fish to live
  • Location: McChord Air Force Base
  • Date Registered: Oct 2012
  • Posts: 442
I am going to have to disagree with you here. First off I am a SOT guy but there are a few principles that apply regardless of your back ground or ability. A SINK relies on a paddler and paddle for most of its primary stability. When you are fishing you do not have a paddle in your hands, you have a fishing pole. In most cases you are going to be fine with the boats great secondary stability but when you rely on the secondary stability you loose the fail safe of extra stability that a SOT affords you.
Basically what it boils down to is if you want to catch big fish from a kayak you better be one hell of a boatsman in a SINK or just buy a fishing specific boat.
Get the right boat and you can hang with nearly any sea SINK.

Does this mean you'll be joining me rounding Cape Flattery? In 10 years I've never seen a SOT fish out there.
I've made it to duncan with my outback.

I've rounded/fished Tatoosh in my Outback.  Duncan Rock is next on my "to do" list. Am I missing something...what would keep a SOT from fishing there?
Gordon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7QYFPLqHbdZIJblTDhgAuQ

Hobie Outback x2 (for fishing)
WS Tsunami 140 (for paddling, wishing I were fishing)
Old Town Dirigo 120 (for rivers)


Dan_E

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Formerly known as Indyflyer
  • Location: McMinnville, OR
  • Date Registered: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 345
a sink has to swim 600lbs of water laden kayak across what ever body of water he is fishing.

Not true, I've practiced self-recovery in a Pungo sink and they don't fill with water when flipped over, there is an air bubble created in the hull, right the hull and there is only a couple of gallons of water inside, easily pumped out after re-entry.  There is a youtube video of a guy doing an eskimo roll in a Pungo with no thigh straps or skirt on the boat.  Only being swamped by a huge wave would the boat possibly fill with water but it will still have floatation while you remove the water.  The thing that I like about my SOT is that I can sit sidesaddle with feet dangling in the water otherwise the sink is a good fishing platform. 


pmmpete

  • Sturgeon
  • *******
  • Location: Missoula, Montana
  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 1989
Not true, I've practiced self-recovery in a Pungo sink and they don't fill with water when flipped over, there is an air bubble created in the hull, right the hull and there is only a couple of gallons of water inside, easily pumped out after re-entry.  There is a youtube video of a guy doing an eskimo roll in a Pungo with no thigh straps or skirt on the boat.  Only being swamped by a huge wave would the boat possibly fill with water but it will still have floatation while you remove the water.

You can't count on air bubbles as a source of floation for swamped kayaks.  I've had to struggle with rescuing too many sit-inside kayaks which didn't have floatation and ended up completely full of water, and sometimes ended up floating vertically in the water with only a foot of the bow or stern sticking out of the water.  I think all kayaks should contain floatation in areas which aren't needed for storing gear.  Air bags are a good way to provide flotation for sit-inside kayaks.   I have stuffed inexpensive pool noodles from Walmart into both my 13' Trident and my 13' Revolution.  In addition to providing floatation, pool noodles or other lightweight closed cell foam can be positioned to keep loose items of gear from sliding into inaccessible areas of a kayak.  However, you need to be careful to install foam in locations where it won't interfere with rudder lines.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:21:12 PM by pmmpete »


Dirk1730

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Location: Sumner wa
  • Date Registered: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 306
a sink has to swim 600lbs of water laden kayak across what ever body of water he is fishing.

Not true, I've practiced self-recovery in a Pungo sink and they don't fill with water when flipped over, there is an air bubble created in the hull, right the hull and there is only a couple of gallons of water inside, easily pumped out after re-entry.  There is a youtube video of a guy doing an eskimo roll in a Pungo with no thigh straps or skirt on the boat.  Only being swamped by a huge wave would the boat possibly fill with water but it will still have floatation while you remove the water.  The thing that I like about my SOT is that I can sit sidesaddle with feet dangling in the water otherwise the sink is a good fishing platform.
I think self recovery works until you pull up your skirt:). The average fisherman in 6 ft waves three miles out with a 15ft sink flipped over trying to get back in it and drain the water.I think we can both agree that it would take substantially more skill to get that done in open ocean, than it would take to climb on your sot.
I will agree that sinks have their benefit, however self recovery is not one of them.
I have watched a group of sea kayakers do it at hoebuck and it took 4 boats to get the guy in and secured.
BETTER TO HAVE A BROKEN BONE, THAN A BROKEN SPIRIT.


Dan_E

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Formerly known as Indyflyer
  • Location: McMinnville, OR
  • Date Registered: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 345
I wasn't saying that an air bubble is providing floatation, just that a sink doesn't fill with water when upside down.  Most quality sinks have bulkheads and floatation in them.  And on the salt miles off shore a skirt would be something a sea kayak would be expected to use. 


Harvey

  • Herring
  • **
  • Thats right, I am an RT
  • Location: Spokane Valley, WA
  • Date Registered: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 31
OK, To the original post I will add a couple thoughts..

Where are you fishing most of the time?

What type of water/weather?

I run a 10 ft SINK, but mostly fish in lakes, and large rivers.   I have had no problems with stability because I bought an angler version sink.  Great for trout lakes and controlled flow big rivers.  I am looking into getting a SOT mainly to take out to the coast and fish, but that is not the majority of what I do.  I think there are benefits to both.  I stay dry in my SINK, and did not need to purchase much in the way of extra rigging, etc.  If I were going into bigger lakes with bigger swells I would probably go with a SOT just for the ease of re-entry if something not fun happens.   Either way, once you get one, you will find a reason for more.....

I joke to my spouse about my need for a "plastic fleet".  Also strongly recommend you go to a dealer and test run a few different types, and ask questions.  Gook dealers do this quite a bit, and you will get lots of useful information.
When in doubt, throw a line out!


craig

  • Sturgeon
  • *******
  • Location: Tualatin, OR
  • Date Registered: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 3814
Wow! Somehow I missed this thread.  I am glad I read it because now I know I need to wear safety glasses in my mirage drive kayaks because apparently, a guy who doesn't use them says the drive will blow up if I hit a rock.  I must have got a dud because I routinely run the Clackamas and the Sandy for steelhead in my Outback and I have yet to have one blow up.  Must be because the drive got wet.   :dontknow:  Oh, and if you think there are large boulders you may hit, or the water will be too shallow, you can always pull the drive and use a paddle.  It is really not difficult to do at all on the stretches of the rivers I fish.

As for the various yaks, I too have used and own various styles of yaks (SINKs and SOTs) and other paddle craft. The next cedar strip build will be a SINK for surfing.  However, if I am fishing, I am using a SOT. Not only can I fish from them, but I can easily stack three crab pots on the back to drop as I head out to fish.  I also find the SOT to be so much more comfortable for fishing. You can hang your legs over the side, easily pee in a scupper hole, stand up (in some), etc.   I have never found a SOT to limit my range.  I don't know why it would.  Unless, I had the wrong one for the mission.  I would not try to paddle 15 miles on open water in an 8 foot white water yak (SINK or SOT).  It can be done, by why try if there is a better tool in the shed.  As for the statement of not seeing a SOT fishing Cape Flattery, I have never seen a SINK fishing Buoy 10 on the Columbia or doing a cast and blast around Sauvie Island in January either.  But that doesn't mean they can't. 

Disclaimer:  I base my remarks on my life experiences not on assumptions of things with which I have no experience.  I have not paddled every SOT and SINK made, nor have I done side by side comparisons of every model in every possible condition.  In fact, I have paddled and pedaled a very small percentage but I have paddled representatives of each type.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:21:10 PM by craig »


Yaktrap

  • Salmon
  • ******
  • Location: Seattle WA
  • Date Registered: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 712
I like fruit. At times I like bananas and other times I like apples. Don't ask me to choose one. I have 4 kayaks I fish from, 2 are SINK and 2 are SOT. I pick the kayak based on the conditions I'm likely to encounter. It's simple if you don't box yourself into a corner. Life's short don't give up options.
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ballardbrad

  • Salmon
  • ******
  • Kayak Fishing Washington
  • Location: Ballard, WA
  • Date Registered: Aug 2010
  • Posts: 626
Better yet, come down to Lake Sammamish State Park May 9th & 10th for the Northwest Paddling Festival www.northwestpaddlingfestival.com .  For $7, you can demo Sit On Top & Sit Inside Kayaks as well as SUPs.  It's a huge event.

We'll also be doing a fishing clinic at 10am on May 10th to talk kayak rigging and fishing for cutthroat on the lake.  Those wanting to fish after the clinic must have their own kayak and gear.


demonick

  • Sturgeon
  • *******
  • Domenick Venezia, Author
  • Date Registered: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 2835
If you are an experienced kayaker transitioning to kayak fishing, you might prefer a SINK. 

If you are a fisherman transitioning to kayak fishing you will likely prefer a SOT.

For me, personally, a SOT all the way.  And a Hobie Revo13 to boot. 
demonick
Author, Linc Malloy Legacies -- Action/Adventure/Thrillers
2021 Chanticleer Finalist - Global Thriller Series & High Stakes Fiction
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Ray Borbon

  • Lingcod
  • *****
  • Hook em and cook em
  • Location: Kirkland,WA
  • Date Registered: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 474
Quote
Disclaimer:  I base my remarks on my life experiences not on assumptions of things with which I have no experience
Yes, assumptions were made on your part. Your Mirage drive will explode on some of the rivers I have run. Into thousands of tiny pieces. I hope it doesn't break your safety glasses in the process. LOL


pmmpete

  • Sturgeon
  • *******
  • Location: Missoula, Montana
  • Date Registered: Jul 2013
  • Posts: 1989
If I want to do a kayak trip with a little fishing on the side, I use a sit-inside kayak.  I do a lot of multi-day wilderness whitewater kayak trips, sometimes with some fishing on the side.

If I want to go fishing out of a kayak, I use a sit-on-top kayak.  I used a paddle kayak (13' Trident) for years, but as soon as I got a pedal kayak (13" Revolution) I mostly quit using the paddle kayak for lake fishing.  For river fishing, unless the river is reliably deep, I use a paddle kayak.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 09:11:30 PM by pmmpete »


jasperg

  • Herring
  • **
  • Location: Portland, OR
  • Date Registered: Oct 2013
  • Posts: 25
Cant believe this thread is still going on! For me it is quite simple:
I tried SOT's and some of them are great boats, and there is nothing wrong with that. I love boats!

My sea kayak on the other hand is not a boat. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it becomes an extension of myself. Like a well tailored suit, or maybe like a prostheses for the sea creature i'm really meant to be.
.
An SOT is probably a much more efficient fishing platform, has a much lower learning curve, and is probably safer for most. Maybe even for me.

However, nothing makes me feel in my element, a part of my environment, like edging, bracing and rolling my kayak. So I keep sliding my legs in that keyhole cockpit and closing that skirt. And I still get to bring home a meal!