Help me make a decision

The Trident 13 handles waves well and will do fine on big open rivers.  But because it has a prominent keel it turns slowly, so if you come to an area which requires any fast maneuvering, you better have an elegant line figured out in advance, because you can't whip a Trident around like a whitewater kayak.  It's more like paddling a canoe.

The quality that makes a good white water boat makes an awful flat water boat. You can't have one that preforms well in both aspects.

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The Trident 13 handles waves well and will do fine on big open rivers.  But because it has a prominent keel it turns slowly, so if you come to an area which requires any fast maneuvering, you better have an elegant line figured out in advance, because you can't whip a Trident around like a whitewater kayak.  It's more like paddling a canoe.

The quality that makes a good white water boat makes an awful flat water boat. You can't have one that preforms well in both aspects.

Sent from my Motorola Flip phone.

I think you can have one that performs somewhat well in both aspects.  However, it won't excel in either.  There are some crossover kayaks on the market that do exactly this.  But they are not  fishing kayaks.

Yes, we're throwing fishing into the mix.  When you are in a whitewater boat (in most non-fishing kayaking in fact), you are meant to have your paddle in your hands.  Your ability to control the kayak and brace with your paddle is integral to the experience.  When we're fishing, we have a fishing rod in our hands.  A fishing rod does not a good brace make.

-Allen

How does the Outback do in swift rivers using a paddle? 

How does the Outback do in swift rivers using a paddle?

How does the Outback do on flat water using a paddle? 

-Allen

How does the Outback do in swift rivers using a paddle?

How does the Outback do on flat water using a paddle? 

-Allen

I have had no problems on the Sandy River or on the Clackamas with my Outback. I just use the paddle for manuevering and let the current do the work. Paddling flat water sucks with it though.    However, I have never been in more than Class II with it.  The Revo works well on these same rivers, too.  In fact Ndogg was able to fight a fish and keep from going through rapids at the same time while on the Sandy.  He pointed upstream and kept pedaling while fighting the steelhead and 'hovered' in one spot above the rapids.

As for only buying one Hobie for fishing, I would get the Revo.  Nice and stable, yet much faster than the Outback.  But, buying the Outback and not the Revo gave me a great reason to buy an Adventure.  This way I have the best tool for the job and a spare for a friend.

Wow guys...thanks so much.  Lots to think about here.  I like the Hobbie marrige boats, but really dont want to spend that much.  The keel on the Trident is the only thing that is keeping me leery of it.  No one with any thoughts on the Moken huh?  I'll think more about the Tirdent.  The north fork of the Lewis is probably the only "swift" water I will use it in, and there really is nothing there that's too ugly...Happa's maybe in high water.  I will be using it mostly in still water (Lower Lewis and the like).  Maybe I should go out and see how tough it is to spin a trident?  What about a boat like a Moken, with a rudder?   

Never really paddled my outback anywhere. But I have been VERY impressed with the mirage drive in river conditions.

The accessory that I think that has caused me the biggest problems on the river is my sailing rudder and turbo fins. I wouldn't change them out but having extra long thingies in the water when you hit an eddy or swirl has caused some pucker factor as it almost feels like you are going to tip. When they catch suddenly. 

I think a good depth finder is necessary to run shallower rivers but I used to use my mini x exclusively for rivers. Now I'm not sure when I won't use the outback.


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Sit-on-top fishing kayaks work fine in large easy rivers, but in rivers which are smaller, faster, and more rocky, I don’t like to fish out of a kayak.  You spend too much time spinning around in circles, and if you don’t watch out you can broach on rocks.  I prefer to get out on shore when fishing, or at least beach the kayak on some rocks.

Here we are fishing out of our kayaks in the pool at the top of Ladle Rapid on a four-day low-water early-August kayak trip on the Selway River in Idaho.  You want both hands on your paddle when running this rapid.



Fishing on the upper Middle Fork of the Salmon in Idaho on a six-day kayak trip earlier this September:



Fishing on an early July three-day low-water kayak trip on the Little North Fork of the Clearwater River in Idaho:



But you aren’t going to run these kinds of rivers in a fishing kayak.  Me running Wolf Creek Rapid on a low-water Selway kayak trip:



Typical log dodging in Class IV rapids on the Little North Fork of the Clearwater.  Note the kayaker diving the hole below the log.



Portaging a log jam in Wally's Wallow Rapid on the Jarbidge:

Sit-on-top fishing kayaks work fine in large easy rivers, but in rivers which are smaller, faster, and more rocky, I don’t like to fish out of a kayak.  You spend too much time spinning around in circles, and if you don’t watch out you can broach on rocks.  I prefer to get out on shore when fishing, or at least beach the kayak on some rocks.

+1.

But you still got to run them.

And even on easier rivers, there are still more technical sections you have to deal with.

I wouldn't recommend anyone without a bit of experience running rivers do anything more than an easy Class II.

-Allen

Never really paddled my outback anywhere. But I have been VERY impressed with the mirage drive in river conditions.

The accessory that I think that has caused me the biggest problems on the river is my sailing rudder and turbo fins. I wouldn't change them out but having extra long thingies in the water when you hit an eddy or swirl has caused some pucker factor as it almost feels like you are going to tip. When they catch suddenly. 

I think a good depth finder is necessary to run shallower rivers but I used to use my mini x exclusively for rivers. Now I'm not sure when I won't use the outback.


AlaskaKayakFisher.com
Guidesak.blogspot.com
My personal pages...I'm not a guide.

The problem I have with Mirage Drives on rivers, well a few problems.

First ...exactly what you describe.  Anything hanging in the water offers a bit or randomness as current can catch you in crazy ways.

The second issue is that when running rivers, you'll likely spend a lot of time back paddling, but there is no such thing as reverse with a Mirage drive.

The third issue I have is that it is hard to brace with a Mirage Drive.

Yes, you can and should still use your paddle, probably more than you pedal.

-Allen

Wow guys...thanks so much.  Lots to think about here.  I like the Hobbie marrige boats, but really dont want to spend that much.  The keel on the Trident is the only thing that is keeping me leery of it.  No one with any thoughts on the Moken huh?  I'll think more about the Tirdent.  The north fork of the Lewis is probably the only "swift" water I will use it in, and there really is nothing there that's too ugly...Happa's maybe in high water.  I will be using it mostly in still water (Lower Lewis and the like).  Maybe I should go out and see how tough it is to spin a trident?  What about a boat like a Moken, with a rudder?

Funny thing is I don't think of Trident as having that much of a keel.

Moken ... I don't know anyone here that has one.

Rudder?  IMO, it's not going to help much on a river.

-Allen

I don't think I qualify as one with much river experience in my T13... However, I have had it in the river. I find it turns very well when I want it to. Ymmv.

Never really paddled my outback anywhere. But I have been VERY impressed with the mirage drive in river conditions.

The accessory that I think that has caused me the biggest problems on the river is my sailing rudder and turbo fins. I wouldn't change them out but having extra long thingies in the water when you hit an eddy or swirl has caused some pucker factor as it almost feels like you are going to tip. When they catch suddenly. 

I think a good depth finder is necessary to run shallower rivers but I used to use my mini x exclusively for rivers. Now I'm not sure when I won't use the outback.


AlaskaKayakFisher.com
Guidesak.blogspot.com
My personal pages...I'm not a guide.

The problem I have with Mirage Drives on rivers, well a few problems.

First ...exactly what you describe.  Anything hanging in the water offers a bit or randomness as current can catch you in crazy ways.

The second issue is that when running rivers, you'll likely spend a lot of time back paddling, but there is no such thing as reverse with a Mirage drive.

The third issue I have is that it is hard to brace with a Mirage Drive.

Yes, you can and should still use your paddle, probably more than you pedal.

-Allen

Well certainly swift tight rivers like those in the pics. But from a fishing perspective I've yet to take my paddle out on medium to larger rivers. Back trolling down the river gives me amazing amount of control and sliding down the rivers slowly, it's fairly easy to dodge sweepers and such.

But for true running the rivers, I'd be scared a bit in the outback. Maybe put thigh straps on my mini-x   I think rounding a corner to see a sweeper and having the paddle strapped to your kayak with no reverse would likely be a start of a really bad day. Lol.


AlaskaKayakFisher.com
Guidesak.blogspot.com
My personal pages...I'm not a guide.

Hey guys,
I'm new to fishing from a kayak, but very experienced as a kayaker. So let me know if I am being completely ignorant. I noticed no one has mentioned the Perception Triumph 13. This boat paddles very well (pretty fast while still fairly maneuverable, 13'6"). It comes in an angler version, but I have after some research found that it is much more cost effective to purchase non-angler edition and mount you own fittings and rod holders. It retails for around $600 but can be found at REI for less on sale. I may have some insider REI info if you ask  . The angler edition is a couple hundred extra. I paddle this boat and like it a lot and mounted all my own stuff on it for less than $50. I too would love to have a Mirage Drive boat but can't afford it at this time. The Triumph has lots of good surface for mounting accessories on it. Just my 2 cents. I can post pics of my boat if wanted.
-Josh

Hey guys,
I'm new to fishing from a kayak, but very experienced as a kayaker. So let me know if I am being completely ignorant. I noticed no one has mentioned the Perception Triumph 13. This boat paddles very well (pretty fast while still fairly maneuverable, 13'6"). It comes in an angler version, but I have after some research found that it is much more cost effective to purchase non-angler edition and mount you own fittings and rod holders. It retails for around $600 but can be found at REI for less on sale. I may have some insider REI info if you ask  . The angler edition is a couple hundred extra. I paddle this boat and like it a lot and mounted all my own stuff on it for less than $50. I too would love to have a Mirage Drive boat but can't afford it at this time. The Triumph has lots of good surface for mounting accessories on it. Just my 2 cents. I can post pics of my boat if wanted.
-Josh

I should add that the Triumph has almost the identical hull as the Wilderness Systems Tarpons.