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Topic: Situational: going upwind and upswell  (Read 3150 times)

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polepole

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Per  ... http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=12478.0

OK.  Here's the situation.  There is a 10-15 knot wind  blowing towards you on top of a 6 foot swell at 10 seconds in the same direction.  You're quartering into it, to heading straight into it.  You need to cover 2 miles.

1) What features of kayak design are "better" in this particular situations?
2) Give feedback on the kayaks you have experience on in terms of how they handled these situations, both positives and negatives.

-Allen


Lee

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Length and speed with ability to cut through waves.

Revo and Oasis punch right through this stuff and get you there fast.  It's a bit of a wet right, particularly for the front seater in the Oasis.

Tarpon 160 will punch through, but not as easily, and it's hard to keep that much boat moving in those conditions.  The warmest I've ever been was on a 30 degree day in the sound, paddling through 20-30 mph winds in my old Tarpon.  (yeah, it wasn't the best idea)

I also feel that a rudder is extremely useful in situations like this.
 


rawkfish

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Yup, gimmie my Revo13 for this one.  Like Lee said, it will get you there.  Even when you need to punch through sloppy wind waves.  The Revo13 has a low center of gravity, sleek profile, and great tracking, which make it a great boat for this situation.  I can catch less wind in the Revo because it doesn't have a lot of vertical free board and I sit lower in the water.  I would be bummed if I had to do this in my PA12.  It has a high center of gravity and large profile exposed to the wind so it will make for a slow trip.  It's situations like this that make my Revo my ocean boat.
                
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kardinal_84

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Outback is not ideal but the mirage with it's virtually constant thrust is superb in these conditions. I have to imagine a narrower kayak with mirage drive would excel in these conditions.
Personal Chauffeur for Kokatat & Hobie Fishing Team member, Ryu .

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Justin

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This is why I like not knowing how different kayaks ride.  I have no idea what rides better in different conditions so I'm happy out there  plowing through waves in my Outback.

Ignorance is bliss :) (in this situation)
aka - JoeSnuffy

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Northwoods

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Having ground through similar conditions, with polepole even, at ORC-13 I will say that my P13 is NOT the ideal boat.  Anything with a mirage drive would have been better as the wind made paddling an even bigger chore than it otherwise would have been.  We obviously made it back just fine, but both of us were pretty tired by the end.

That said, the boat itself did pretty well.  All else being equal, a mirage drive in that boat would have been just fine in those conditions.  A bit wet, but that's at least in part what the dry suit is for.  The P13 definitely cuts through the swell.  I've been out in worse swells than 6' @10 and felt perfectly safe in terms of staying right side up, and being able to make good progress.
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polepole

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What do I look for in this situation? Well, up until a 2-3 years ago, I didn't use rudders.  But since I started using one, I can definitely see the advantages in this situation. Though rudders may be a topic of an entirely different discussion.

A couple things to keep in mind.

Is the kayak susceptible to wind or wave cocking?  What is it about them that make them susceptible?

How does the kayak handle "crashing" through or over the oncoming waves?  There is a fine balance here between plowing through them or bouncing over them.  Too much plowing and progress is impeded.  Too much crashing over and you have the issue of getting pushed around.  Hull design, specifically the bow design, affects this.  But so does the weight being carried as it caused the bow to ride differently.  So let me add context to my observations.  I'm ~220#, so my feedback is specific to my weight in the kayaks that I am commenting on.

Of some of the kayaks I've owned, I'd rank them in this order.

1) Ocean Kayak P15.  The Prowler 15 is probably my favorite of the kayaks I've owned for dealing with this situation, maybe tied with the Ultra 4.7, which I have a rudder on.  Without a rudder, the P15 comes out on top.  The P15 tracks well for me and also has a good balance between plowing through and bouncing over.  For the most part, the P15 slices through the water beautifully.  In some case though, like steeper waves, I do take a fair amount of water over the bow. 
2) Ocean  Kayak Ultra 4.7 with rudder.  This is the platform that I discovered the joys of a rudder.  I can stick a line a hold it.  This kayak has less plowing in all situations, so I worry less about setting up on "problem waves" and just go for it.  It also doesn't bounce over waves for me.  Less time correcting and more time paddling straight.  I can get to where I want to go faster than the other platforms.
3) Ocean Kayak Trident 13.  I find this boat better that the Trident 15 in this situation.  See my notes on the Trident 15 below.  Similar in performance to the Prowler 13, although slightly better.  See my notes on the P13 below.  Overall, good balance.  No (or slight) windcocking.  Slight wavecocking.  Decent tracking.
4) Ocean Kayak Prowler 13.  There is less volume in the bow of the P13 than the P15.  The P13 sits a little lower in the water for me.  I take more waves over the bow when I hit the waves head on.  It is also slightly more susceptible to wave cocking and I find myself taking more correction strokes.  That being said, it is more responsive and I can set myself up for the occasional "problem wave" better, taking it at a slight angle instead of head on.
5) Ocean Kayak T15.  More noticeable windcocking.  And more volume in the bow leads to slightly more crashing over the waves.  Relatively little issues with crashing through means I'm not taking a lot of water over the bow.  Good speed.
6) Ocean Kayak Ultra 4.3.  Lots of rocker in this kayak, which leads it to getting pushed around more by the waves in this situation.  That means I spend more time taking correction strokes.
7) Predators.  Big heavy kayaks.  Slower. More correction strokes needed.  But they are drier!

-Allen


craig

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I would use my Adventure for this situation if I got surprised by something like this.  I would never intentionally fish those conditions.  I have before, and haven't done well.  My theory is that just as the fish were about to bite my jig, another swell would come along and rip it 6 feet up away from the fish (ie Sunset Bay AOTD 2012).  :dontknow:  It's days like this that lake or river fishing is appealing. ;)


Fungunnin

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The ideal boat would be an Adventure with the bow of a Prowler/Trident. The flair and rocker on the OK boats are very well suited for rough ocean conditions.


polepole

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The ideal boat would be an Adventure with the bow of a Prowler/Trident. The flair and rocker on the OK boats are very well suited for rough ocean conditions.

But how do the kayaks you have experience with perform in this situation?

-Allen


 

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