(Another) Scotty downrigger on a Hobie Outback – the “boomless” variation

Thanks to all who previously shared their downrigger ideas.  Here’s my variation on your theme. 

I tried to achieve what seemed at first to be conflicting objectives; 1) make the spool easily accessible to allow frequent depth adjustments, and 2) minimize adverse yaw by keeping the center of drag as close to the hull’s centerline and as far to the stern as possible...yet keep the ball weight within arm’s reach of the cockpit.  By thinking ‘outside the boom’ I found a (possible) solution.  To my surprise, it required no hull drilling or cutting and only one non-removable hull-side modification (i.e. replacing an existing, unused sonar cable plug with an eye-bolt backed by a piece of MDPE plastic).

Running a downrigger wire in the open may alarm the more sensible anglers among us and it’s still an unproven idea with me.  If I don’t decapitate myself this spring, I’ll post again with my findings.

Happy to field any Qs regarding the how-to details via PM.

Check 6,
Slime

Slime, your set-up looks outstanding!  I really like it.  It's well designed, well made, and looks like it will be comfortable to operate.  Did you make the pulley yourself?

I can imagine a couple of variations on this rig:

1. A Cannon downrigger would also work fine with this kind of rig.

2.  If you wanted to eliminate the section of cable which runs next to the gunwale, you could move the downrigger back to the tray which is next to your left hip, so the dowrigger is closer to the pulley.  This would require you to mount the downrigger pointing down at the pulley at a steeper angle.

3.  If you wanted to eliminate the pulley altogether, you could either (a) mount a Scotty Depthmaster downrigger on its side with the cable reel hanging over the gunwale, so the cable runs straight into the water from the cable reel, or (b) mount a Cannon Lake-Troll downrigger with the nose pointing down over the gunwale so the cable runs straight into the water from the cable reel.

I'm sure your system will work well, but look forward to a report on how you like it.

One suggestion:  If you put your rod in the rod holder in front of the downrigger, you'll be able to monitor the tip of the rod easily, but the rod will be sticking almost straight up and will be bent in order to keep tension on the fishing line.  If you get a strike and it doesn't release the line from your downrigger ball, you'll need to lift the rod straight up out of the rod holder, which will put even more bend in the rod.  Consider mounting a rod holder on the right gunwale which runs across your kayak at a right angle to the left side.  If you need to get that rod out of its holder when the line is under tension, you'll be moving the rod at right angles to the tension on the line, which will be easier.

Another advantage of mounting your downrigger rod at right angles to your kayak is that it will keep your fishing line away from your downrigger cable.  The ideal position for the tip of your fishing rod is a few feet behind the downrigger, so your fishing line will run behind the downrigger cable.  A disadvantage of both of our systems is that the tip of the fishing rod is in front of the downrigger cable.  This makes it easy for us to monitor the tip of our rod, but it has the disadvantage that our fishing line will probably cross from behind to in front of the downrigger cable.  If the tip of your downrigger rod is directly in front of the downrigger cable, your fishing line may abrade against the cable.  If the tip of your rod is several feet further away from your kayak than the downrigger cable, that creates separation between your fishing line and the cable, and reduces the chances of abrasion or entanglement.

PMMPETE,

Thanks for the ideas!  Your post was one of those that inspired me to design something myself.

I like to fish/fight/net/land on the left side of my boat, so I wanted the downrigger on that side, but also wanted to keep as much of that gunwale open as possible - hence I put the spool forward to the base of the rocket launcher.  Also like to cruise/relax with my arms laying on top of the gunwales, so I ruled out the hip position for the spool.  In dry land test, this configuration seems to work for my slouching peddling style, but we'll see.  I also trimmed two inches off the brake handle - when peddling it is not in the way, but if I stop peddling and let my knees flop outboard AND if the brake was in it's maximum position, my knee came in contact with it before the gunwale.  Now its fine.

I tossed around the the no-pulley / direct-to-spool idea for a long time, but ruled it out so I could achieve both of my objectives - easy access to the spool but also putting the center of drag as far aft and as close to centerline as possible.   At times, I want to operate at up to 120' depth, so I didn't want to compromise on the drag/yaw objective.

I fish both vertical and horizontal rod holders, so I'll give your horizontal/cross-pole technique a try too.

Yes, I made the pulley.  It's a hardware store metal pulley sandwiched with MDPE.  I dado cut the MDPE to accept the pulley and create a lip 270-degrees around it to guide the wire to the center of the pulley wheel.  Without it I was concerned the wire could jump the wheel and bind on the axle.  Could have bought an expensive sailing block/pulley with tighter clearances, but this is much cheaper and I'm not sure the plastic intended for sailing lines would hold up with wire.

Again, thanks for the ideas.  Report to follow.

Slime, here's how I mount my downrigging rod, which is pointing to the right.  Even with the rod holder that close to the gunwale, there's plenty of clearance under the rod for my feet when I'm pedaling.



Another suggestion:  If you want to be able to eliminate the cable running next to you along the gunwale, such as when going in and out through surf, you could attach the pulley to the bar with a snap clip of some kind.  When you want to get rid of the cable, you could unclip the pulley from the bar, slide it forward and clip it to a U-bolt or a ring bolt on the base of your downrigger, drop your ball in the left front water bottle holder, and tighten up the cable.

Nice setup! well thought out and constructed...just curious why you chose to go boom-less and have the ball so far behind you...seems like it would be a bit awkward to reach back and grab the ball or clip.
I used a modified pmmpete cupholder design with a really short boom which gives me great access and easy operation.

At times, I want to operate at up to 120' depth, so I didn't want to compromise on the drag/yaw objective.

With a six pound ball, you won't have any problem trolling at 120 feet deep.  Here is a picture of a couple of big lake trout following my lure which is a couple of feet above the bottom in 143 feet of water. The light line behind the fish return is my ball.



When downrigger trolling near the bottom, I want to be able to see the ball on my fish finder, so I can be sure I'm not about to run it into an underwater obstacle.  I also prefer to be able to see my ball when trolling for suspended fish in deep water, but if there isn't any chance of running my ball into the bottom, I'm willing to operate off the three-digit line meter even if I can't see my ball.

  At times, I want to operate at up to 120' depth, so I didn't want to compromise on the drag/yaw objective.

Ah, missed that in the thread, but I agree with Peter...I troll for blackmouth around 120' frequently and have never had any issue with drag/yaw...with pedals and a rudder it's no issue at all. I did replace the braided steel cable with 100 lb super slick Power pro and it cut the drag down incredibly.

I'm looking forward to your future posts!

Looks great.

You could run the pulley even further back and use one of those downrigger cable keeper thingies.

-Allen

Thanks for the pulley clip idea PMMPete.  I think the components are secure enough that I'd probably risk leaving them installed for surf zone crossings, but detaching and stowing the weight and wire would be a must.  I'd probably put a protective foam cap over the end of the steel crossbar too.  I also took a stab in the dark when I bought a 6# ball, so it's good to know I'll be in the ball park for my intended use.  Do you ever go lighter/heavier and if so when?

Nangsdog, thanks for the Power Pro braid suggestion; it'll be in my hip pocket as a final tweak if needed.  I figured my approach elevated the concern about drag-induced yaw too far for some, but threw it out there in case others share my pet peeve.  Just the yaw from a simple diver-plug combo is a bug for me, so I knew I wouldn't be happy if I didn't try to minimize it with my downrigger.  Despite having the oversized rudder on my Outback,  I've always wanted more untapped rudder authority, especially in crosswinds.  I know it's unrealistic to want it all, but I do...a boat that holds a laser-straight course at all speeds without constant steering, like a touring yak, AND one that can do cartwheels like a squirt boat!

At times, I want to operate at up to 120' depth, so I didn't want to compromise on the drag/yaw objective.

With a six pound ball, you won't have any problem trolling at 120 feet deep.  Here is a picture of a couple of big lake trout following my lure which is a couple of feet above the bottom in 143 feet of water. The light line behind the fish return is my ball.



When downrigger trolling near the bottom, I want to be able to see the ball on my fish finder, so I can be sure I'm not about to run it into an underwater obstacle.  I also prefer to be able to see my ball when trolling for suspended fish in deep water, but if there isn't any chance of running my ball into the bottom, I'm willing to operate off the three-digit line meter even if I can't see my ball.

Thanks for your help...again.  Along with others I'm sure, I REALLY  appreciate this kind of info. I've yet to use a depthfinder, or a downrigger for that matter. Nowhere have I found such useful practical info.

I'm massaging both of your guys ideas on a downrigger setup. Not sure where it will end. Thinking of a boomless verticle spool, low, over the side somehow, and.......

I also took a stab in the dark when I bought a 6# ball, so it's good to know I'll be in the ball park for my intended use.  Do you ever go lighter/heavier and if so when?

I use a four pound ball with the Scotty Laketroller I have on my Trident, which is a pretty lightly constructed downrigger.  As a result of the light ball and the fairly low-end fish finder I have on the Trident, I lose sight of the ball on my fish finder at about 75 feet.  I'm currently using a 6 pound ball with my Scotty Depthmaster, and intend to use that ball with my Cannon Lake-Troll as well.  I can see that ball on my Humminbird 597ciHD down to about 170 feet.  However, I'm thinking about trying an 8 pound ball on the Depthmaster and the Cannon Lake-Troll.  I'd appreciate any feedback from people who have used 8 pound or heavier balls on their kayak downriggers.

I've yet to use a depthfinder, or a downrigger for that matter.

You have to have a fish finder in order to use a downrigger.  You need the fish finder so you can run your ball and lure through schools of suspended fish, so you can work underwater structure with your ball and lure, and so you can avoid running your ball into underwater obstructions and possibly snagging your ball on the bottom.

Here's a picture of my fish finder screen which I took while downrigger trolling last summer.  The left side of the screen shows my GPS track as I was trolling along the side of a bench.  The red boat icon shows where I was.  The loop off to the left of the bench is where I caught a lake trout, floated downwind while playing it in, and then returned to the side of the bench.  The right side of the screen is the sonar.  It shows lake trout near the bottom in 41 feet of water, under a school of small fish.  My downrigger ball is the thick orange horizontal line.

 

My 5xHDI should be here Monday and I hope to be learning on at least Haag Lake stumps next Saturday. Still not sure about the outrigger...leaning towards Scotty 1060 (drawn to 2:1 crank ratio) mounted sideways with the line running straight down without a boom or pulley. I'll figure out a saddle of some sort near or to the rear of my hip to hang the scotty base on. Depends on what works for reaching back for cranking. Probably should just get it and assess the options. The wife had Valentines day last week and her birthday today, so I'm trying to rationalize to her it's my turn     We've both got revos to rig so somebody's got to be the guinea pig, right.

Very nice FF !!!

Can the DR cable on the port side be released from the rear pulley if you are in the water and need to re-enter?