Mirage and Propel: Anything else out on the horizon?

I've been away from the board here for a year or two, and was hoping when I logged back in and re-bookmarked NWKA that I would see some swell new foot-propulsion drive system being "yakked" up (sorry). But noooo ....
Gee it would be nice to have a competitor for price and features to the Mirage Drive and Propel systems.

I saw a prototype of a foot pedal system for santa cruz. I bet they'll have something out this year or next.

When does Hobie's patent on the Mirage drive expire?

Aside from pedal powered yaks there has been an upsurgence of electric kayaks like the OK torque and the motor for the hobies (sorry couldnt remember the name of it...) then there is the wavewalks that you can put either electric trolling motor or a small gas "kicker" on... it will be interesting to see where these kayak designers go from here for sure because things like th propel and mirage drives can only get better, more efficient, and possibly more affordable as time goes on.

It takes a certain size company to produce a peddle craft and there are not many of those around. I would like to see a power to performance comparison of the Mirage with the Propel. I would expect the Propel to be a lot more efficient in turning leg power into forward momentum. The Hobie was designed for durability at the expense of performance. There is nothing less effective than a sculling motion though there is no worry about cavitation with this type of "drive" as evidenced by the Hobie.

I cannot see why a pedal drive kayak hull has to weigh 30% more than a hull for a kayak that will be propelled by a paddler instead of a peddler. I would expect the extra 30 lbs. of weight (before adding the drive and any gear) is a deterrent to ownership of either the Mirage or the Propel. It certainly is for me.

I would expect the Propel to be a lot more efficient in turning leg power into forward momentum. The Hobie was designed for durability at the expense of performance. There is nothing less effective than a sculling motion though there is no worry about cavitation with this type of "drive" as evidenced by the Hobie.

I cannot see why a pedal drive kayak hull has to weigh 30% more than a hull for a kayak that will be propelled by a paddler instead of a peddler. I would expect the extra 30 lbs. of weight (before adding the drive and any gear) is a deterrent to ownership of either the Mirage or the Propel. It certainly is for me.

Those are some interesting assertions. I have nothing but personal anecdotal evidence to go on, but the fin-drive certainly feels efficient when you're using it. I'm sure someone on here has had a mirage drive and a propel to compare...

I'm not sure if you mean 30% or 30lbs, but I could see some extra weight for the drive well, which must be strong and adds some plastic into the mix. A Revo 13 weighs 70lbs dry, and a Trident 13 weighs 67lbs dry.

Oh hey look, we've talked about Mirage Drive efficiency before:

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=9586.0

I would expect the Propel to be a lot more efficient in turning leg power into forward momentum. The Hobie was designed for durability at the expense of performance. There is nothing less effective than a sculling motion though there is no worry about cavitation with this type of "drive" as evidenced by the Hobie.

I cannot see why a pedal drive kayak hull has to weigh 30% more than a hull for a kayak that will be propelled by a paddler instead of a peddler. I would expect the extra 30 lbs. of weight (before adding the drive and any gear) is a deterrent to ownership of either the Mirage or the Propel. It certainly is for me.

Those are some interesting assertions. I have nothing but personal anecdotal evidence to go on, but the fin-drive certainly feels efficient when you're using it. I'm sure someone on here has had a mirage drive and a propel to compare...

I'm not sure if you mean 30% or 30lbs, but I could see some extra weight for the drive well, which must be strong and adds some plastic into the mix. A Revo 13 weighs 70lbs dry, and a Trident 13 weighs 67lbs dry.

A couple of weeks ago I pedalled a Slayer Propel alongside someone in a Revo 13.  I had to do 3 cycles to every 2 of his to maintain pace, and he didn't have the turbo fins either.

One annoying aspect of the Slayer Propel also came out.  It plows quite a bit of water.  If I leaned back, it plowed less.  I think they could have put the seat a bit farther back.

The Slayer Propel needs a better rudder too.  The Revo 13 was able to maintain a turn inside my turning radius on the Slayer Propel, and this without the sailing rudder.

-Allen

Yikes!  I looked up the price of the current Revo 13 and the Slayer 13 on Austin Kayak and there is a $400 price tag difference just for the option of reverse. 

NO THANKS!

I don't find myself needing reverse very often so that alone would never pull me that direction. 

I do however like how the drive unit pivots up and sets back down on a plastic insert. 

I have both a Hobie Outback and a Native Mariner.  I prefer the Outback and my wife prefers the Mariner. 
Positives for The Mariner:
1  It is a little faster
2 requires less effort to maintain speed
3 it has reverse
4 it has a lot more deck space
5 it is more stable than my outback
6  it has a more comfortable seat
  The negatives on the Mariner are
1  it doesn't turn as sharp and with the way the rudder mounts under it I don't think there is any way of modifying it.
2 it does not accelerate as fast, the prop will cavitate if you pedal too fast.
3  With the seat forward (we have short legs) the drive unit hits when raising it, makes it difficult to raise the prop in shallow water.
4 the rudder handle also hits the seat, I've heard of people shaving the handle down for clearance.
5 hatch covers are very difficult to open and I wouldn't trust them to stay dry.
 

I've had my Slayer Propel for about two weeks now, so will chime in.

"I looked up the price of the current Revo 13 and the Slayer 13 on Austin Kayak and there is a $400 price tag difference just for the option of reverse."

Not really.  The Slayer Propel is comparable to the Pro Angler 12/14 IMO.  So it's actually $600 cheaper.  And the Pro Angler doesn't PADDLE well at all.  The Slayer does...albeit slower than say...a WS Tarpon 140.

"One annoying aspect of the Slayer Propel also came out.  It plows quite a bit of water.  If I leaned back, it plowed less.  I think they could have put the seat a bit farther back."

I'm only 150 lbs. so don't really have that problem.  It pushes water a bit on initial start up, but cuts pretty clean once up to speed.  And it maintains speed pretty well.

"The Slayer Propel needs a better rudder too.  The Revo 13 was able to maintain a turn inside my turning radius on the Slayer Propel, and this without the sailing rudder."

Agree, the turning radius is lacking. 


"I had to do 3 cycles to every 2 of his to maintain pace, and he didn't have the turbo fins either."

My FF/GPS marks me at 4.5MPH at a leisurely pace.  Not sure of my pedaling cycles with Propel vs. the Mirage Drive, but I find it much easier to pedal vs. push.  Maybe that's because I bike a lot.

Other thoughts:

Cavitation issues with the Mariner were fixed, and the only instance I've encountered is when quickly changing from forward to reverse, or vice versa.

Reverse is a huge deal if you fly fish a lot.  Even if not fly fishing, I use it a LOT.

I can pull the drive up, flip over the hatch, and make pee pee through the drive hole.

I can stand up and cast with no fear.  The boat is super stable.

The seat is not as comfy as the Hobie Pro Angler seat.

TLDR:  Aside from the turning radius issues, I did a lot of comparing between the Slayer Propel and Hobie Pro Angler, and chose the Slayer Propel. 

Jon, appreciate your comments. I'll take a second look at the Propel boats.

This is on my list of things to develop

I kinda like this idea.

Wow props, just add a hydro foil.