Greenland Paddles?

Thanks guys.

Yarjammer,
It weighs about 35 pounds.

Brian,

I do have photos of the kayak under construction.  However, I have never uploaded them to a website yet.  I may do that soon.   I have to go to New York Sunday morning thru Friday night.  I don't know If I will have it done by then.  However, I did upload photos of the pirogue I built this spring.  There were some similarities in the way they were built, but over all they were two different processes.  The pirogue was much easier. They can be seen here:  http://picasaweb.google.com/craiggamesh/TouringPirogue  but I haven't put any descriptions or notes with the photos yet.

wanderingrichard,

The rack that is holding my rod holders and fish finder in place is only held on by one bolt so i only had to put one hole in the deck.  However, I wouldn't trust it to hold for sturgeon fishing.  Anything smaller and it should be okay.  Of course, I'm not an engineer so, as far as I know, it may not hold a bluegill.

I would love to do custom orders someday, perhaps during retirement (several years down the road).  My fear would be that I would not be able to build them in a timely fashion.  Also, I can't afford to give up the day job, and my wife and kids sure wouldn't want me spending every night in the garage.  That being said, I have six more "perfect" cedar 2 x 4's waiting and I know I don't need eight paddles.  I just need to finish some other projects first.  My wife wants me to build an 18 1/2 foot cedar strip canoe so the whole family can fit.

 If anybody would like to try the paddle and is in the area, I would be happy to meet them and let them try it.  I made it for my hand size and it may not be comfortable for someone else to use over an extended time period.  In fact, I may break out the spokeshave and trim it down a bit because it even feels a little large for me.

Craiggamesh,

No worries.  You're welcome to use the NWKA photo gallery to post your kayak photos and there is no rush.  However if you wanted to write something up someday, I think it would make a great article for the front page of the website.

Brian

I had actually thought of writing something up at one time, time permitting.

I've been chatting with Wali, and he asked me to weigh in on the topic of Greenland paddles for SOT use.  While I've never paddled with Greenland equipment, I can comment on low vs. high angle contemporary touring paddles.  Keep in mind that I am in no way an expert, and am just relaying observations stemming from time spent in guiding and teaching circles.

I suppose I should also state that paddling style and resulting paddle choice should come after one learns basic and proper technique.  It is of my opinion that all "angles of attack" share the same fundamentals in that the torso and legs should account for the vast majority of stored and transferred energy within the stroke.  If this is to be believed, then low angle attacks would use less calories than high angled ones.  Give it a try in your boat, and you'll feel the added energy you are expending with the higher attacks.  Low angle attacks - when done properly - involve less movement/rotation, and can therefore be performed for longer durations of time.  It is for this reason that I believe most kayak fisherman and casual paddlers would be best served by using low angle stroke techniques, which, in turn, are best performed with equipment designed for such actions.  My opinion is that a lot of the high-angle, arm-powered paddling seen in beginners is due to improper paddle selection. More on that later.

There are indeed situations and paddlesports where short bursts of contained energy are more beneficial than long bouts of moderate expendature.  Kayak surfing and white water/creeking come to mind.  You'll probably see some high angles of attack in the K1 and K2 sprint contests in this year's Olympics.  I just don't imagine very many of us are encountering these conditions whilst trolling or moving from reef to reef.  Those of you launching into tubing breakers are in a different category.  Mostly because of your grapefruit sized nads.

Given the increased height of the paddler in a SOT (as compared to an in-cockpit boat), paddle length, (which in all likelihood is an independent variable when it comes to the angle assignment of a given paddle), should be increased.  When taking people on trips in which SOTs were used, I'd start at 230 and adjust from there.  You'd be surprised how many people need 240s.  They weren't all 6'2", either.  After length is established, and the needs of your particular boat are examined (wide beams of 25" or more will probably require more paddle length if you want to maintain a low-angle technique), the next step is to look for paddles designed for this efficient paddling style.  Most are labeled as Low Angle Touring or Recreational.  Most of the latter are simply heavier versions of the former.  The blades have a different shape than those used in high angle styles.  They are made to maximize their shape's efficiency when brought through the water at an angle that is, well, low.  Now, if you've got an obsession or simply lots of money, you will be concerned about weight.  A lot of companies make very nice paddles that weigh next to nothing.  I've never found the need to spend more than a hundred bucks - even on multiple day trips.  But now I'm rambling.

I'd love to blab endlessly on stroke mechanics, but I'll spare you all the pain of reading such typed wankery.  Long story short, if you are paddling at a high angle, getting tired, using your arms, and generally unhappy, borrow your tallest buddy's 240 paddle and go low.

AJ

 

Nice write up AJ!  That made way more sense than some of the "professionally" written material I've seen yet had enough engineering meat to satisfy the "Why?" mechanism.

I defiantly need to learn more about paddles and the proper way to select one.  I bought cheapest one just to get started and after a while on the water it does seem to beat me down.  I just wasn't comfortable in spending a good amount of money on a paddle I wasn't sure I'd like.  I feel it's about time to up grade so thanks for the information AJ.  You referenced a 240cm for a person of about 6'2".  Where would be a good place to start for 6'6"?

Hi Gatorbait,

For your size, I'd probably look into a 240 or 250 cm model with a longer but narrower blade.  Some companies (I like Bending Branches) make ones that are really quite lengthy, but offer the same surface area as typical rounded blades.  I am assuming you paddle mostly for fishing and therefore require equipment tailored for duration rather than power. 

Most generic sizing charts say that, when gripped at shoulder-width, your hands should be 2/3 of the way between the paddle's center and the shoulder of the blade.  This varies slighty with boat beam and paddling style, but that'll give you a good starting point.  Given your height, I'd guess you have significant beef and can deal with a weightier paddle.  So there's probably not a lot of need to buy something in the expensive range.  You'll be able to find a great model for around a hundred bucks.  I'd try and find a usable size over something that'll shave a few grams off of your total weight.  Adjustable angle (in small increments) feathering is another option worth looking into.

If you are indeed "getting beat down" with your current paddle, I'd also suggest examining the technique, too.  Although if the paddle is too short, you may be trapped with whatever technique it forces you to use.

Let me know if you wanna talk more about this.

AJ

Hi Gatorbait,

For your size, I'd probably look into a 240 or 250 cm model with a longer but narrower blade.  Some companies (I like Bending Branches) make ones that are really quite lengthy, but offer the same surface area as typical rounded blades.  I am assuming you paddle mostly for fishing and therefore require equipment tailored for duration rather than power. 

Most generic sizing charts say that, when gripped at shoulder-width, your hands should be 2/3 of the way between the paddle's center and the shoulder of the blade.  This varies slighty with boat beam and paddling style, but that'll give you a good starting point.  Given your height, I'd guess you have significant beef and can deal with a weightier paddle.  So there's probably not a lot of need to buy something in the expensive range.  You'll be able to find a great model for around a hundred bucks.  I'd try and find a usable size over something that'll shave a few grams off of your total weight.  Adjustable angle (in small increments) feathering is another option worth looking into.

If you are indeed "getting beat down" with your current paddle, I'd also suggest examining the technique, too.  Although if the paddle is too short, you may be trapped with whatever technique it forces you to use.

Let me know if you wanna talk more about this.

AJ

Interesting recommendation on the longer paddles.  It is NOT common in the SOT world for people to use longer paddles.  Usually because we're sitting higher up and we tend to have a higher angle paddling style.  230 is the typical "starting" point.

I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong here, as personal preference and paddling style feeds into this.  The paddle style itself also feeds into the equation.  For "regular normal" paddles I personally reach for a 230.  But I have a crankshaft carbon paddle that is shorter ... like 225 or even 220.  Rarely do I go longer.  I've tried it, but I feel like I have to work  harded.

Of course paddle blade size also enters this discussion ... or perhaps it is a different discussion?

-Allen

Like I said, I am in no means an expert.  I've just seen some folks get some relief from pairing a longer paddle with a low-angle technique.  I guess I haven't seen a lot of people (from a pool of mostly beginners) have much luck with high-angle techniques over a duration of many hours and days.  But Allen is right - it's all personal preference.  Try a bunch out, and well, if something short, tall, fat, long, or carbon fiber feels right, then it's the one for you.

Like I said, I am in no means an expert.  I've just seen some folks get some relief from pairing a longer paddle with a low-angle technique.  I guess I haven't seen a lot of people (from a pool of mostly beginners) have much luck with high-angle techniques over a duration of many hours and days.  But Allen is right - it's all personal preference.  Try a bunch out, and well, if something short, tall, fat, long, or carbon fiber feels right, then it's the one for you.

I am by no means an expert either ... and have very little knowledge on the mechanics of things.  Just stating what I see as more common and what my personal preferences are.

I will say that I started my paddling life doing mostly whitewater, and in that case it is mostly a high angle thing, so my paddling preferences developed in that scenario and carry on to my paddling style on the SOTs.  Also I am on the taller side of things (6'3") with a longer torso, so that forces a higher angle.

I am lucky enough to have been able to try out many different styles for longer periods of time, so I do know what my personal preferences are.  They may not apply to you.

-Allen

Paddle....what's a paddle? 

Paddle....what's a paddle? 

its that thing you back-up with 

oh yeah, reverse..Or, if your not in a hurry you could just put the mirage drive in backwards.

If you had the "Greenland Mirage Drive"^TM you wouldn't have to take the time to put it in backwards.   

-Allen

last time i had to use my alternate drive system, my shoulders hurt for a week.

Sorry for the hijack...really