DIY - building a mast *step*??

Has anyone tried building a mast step into a boat that didn't come with one?  I had poor luck with my home-built sail rig (a vee sail that strapped onto the front deck), so it got scrapped.  I'd still like to build a sail rig for it, but one with a real mast this time. 

Have to reinforce the decking probably, secure the base of the step to the hull, not sure what else.  Boat's an Elie Gulf 120XL.  The pic is a 120XE but it's damn close:



At least the front hatch would give plenty of access to the relevant areas inside the hull... 

Thoughts, laughter, suggestions, all welcomed. 

Jim

Hmmm.  Either I'm crazy to even think about this project, or everyone has spring(er) fever!     

We have springer fever, but you should get yourself checked out just to be sure.

Sounds like you already tried a mastless system, which if I understand sailing at all (unlikely) would only take you downwind, where a mast would allow you to sail at something approaching 60deg or even better close to the wind.

Maybe part crazy... But your question was asking whether anyone has done this before. Due to the lack of response, I'm guessing probably not. I would venture to say this is a modification most folks wouldn't consider doing. But that doesn't make you crazy, just "unorthodox".

My suggestion is to take a look at a boat that has a sailing option and look at how the mast hole is re-enforced and see if you can do something like that. You might be able to mount a rod holder in a strategic location to start and add some PVC or other type of bracing underneath. I am actually surprised how little re-enforcement there really is on the Hobies.

Or you could just buy a Hobie...

I did figure it was a long shot that anyone had tried it, but with the number of DIY types around here, figured it was worth a try...    

Yes, I had built a rig that strapped on over the deck, for a down-wind vee sail.  It worked reasonably well, *if* I could get the sail up.  The problem was getting the masts raised from stowed position, they would all too often flop over sideways or over the bow, and once the fabric was soaked it worked *poorly*   Lack of a solid mounting structure was why I ended up scrapping "Sail 1.0" :/

The Interwebz do have many many drawings and pictures of masts, but surprisingly few on the step.  It doesn't look like it'd be that hard to do a basic one suitable for 'light-duty' usage.  Main question would be on hte best way to secure the base to the hull inside the boat - weld it, epoxy, etc - and putting braces of some sort inside the hull.  Might keep playing with it.

There's a local guy with a CL ad for a Tandem AI with full sail/amas/trailer rig-out, but I can't spare the $6K for it (we're forced to replace our deck this summer, OUCH!)

Jim

For the step at the base would something akin to a closet rod end holder be something useful?   Likely the inner diameter's wrong, and there'd be holes to drill (or mount it on a substrate you can weld to the hull).

Dunno, it does seem the INSAYN Fishing Team may have another candidate.

For the step at the base would something akin to a closet rod end holder be something useful?   Likely the inner diameter's wrong, and there'd be holes to drill (or mount it on a substrate you can weld to the hull).

Dunno, it does seem the INSAYN Fishing Team may have another candidate.

I was thinking about a solid tube extending thru deck and secured to the hull, but yeah, same basic idea.  A solid tube would reduce the chances of water getting inside that way.   There's a pretty deep vee to the keel at the desired location, so it would require shaping a good solid block of something (cutting boards maybe) into a substrate, glue/weld that in place, and mount the tube on it.

My wife might agree on that last part.  She'd laugh about the "fishing" part, though...  Of course, the fish laugh just as loud (I can hear 'em, every time I take a rod out!)


Jim

Have you thought about trying a Pacific Action kayak sail kit?   It looks like it would be a start to sailing until you can get a kayak that has the mast base tube already designed into the hull.  It looks like it is strapped on, but if you wanted to, I don't see why the base couldn't be secured with hardware.

Design of the PA vee is almost exactly what I tried to replicate.  Their base construction might be more stable than what I created, but it would still have similar issues.   The hardest part on mine was keeping the bases of the two masts properly tensioned across the deck, which is where that style gets its resistance (such as it is) to flopping over sideways.

I will probably end up fiddling around with this idea until I can afford to trade up to a pedal boat...  The way my hand and shoulder are doing lately with nerve issues, paddling is getting to be a (literal) pain.  Hobies would obviously have choices with mast rigs, but the Native Propel 10 sure looks enticing - but no masts 

Jim

You've got me thinking, which can be a dangerous thing...

I picture something like this:

1. Crack open a brew.
2. Reinforce a circular area (inside hull) to accept a "flush mount" style tube of some sort that the mast will be inserted into.
3. Reinforce 4 separate areas surrounding the center. This reinforcement should go OUTSIDE the hull.
4. Attach "guy wires" (stainless cable) with turnbuckles between the bottom of the mast tube and the four reinforced areas.
5. Adjust the four turnbuckles until the whole thing feels tight.
6. Drop in a sail.
7. Enjoy!

See sketch below.

Hmmm interesting concept!  Especially step 1 👍

Design of the PA vee is almost exactly what I tried to replicate.  Their base construction might be more stable than what I created, but it would still have similar issues.   The hardest part on mine was keeping the bases of the two masts properly tensioned across the deck, which is where that style gets its resistance (such as it is) to flopping over sideways.

That is why I suggested instead of strapping the base to the kayak, use hardware. 

1. This could be adding a 4 pad eyes equal distances from the center of the base no more than 6" from the center of the base.  Attach the base via 1" webbing straps, attached to brass swivel eye snap hooks on the ends, and then clipped to the pad eyes.   That base won't be going anywhere.

2. Or just find a way to attach the PA style sail base a bit more solid, like using Geartrac.  I don't know what your current base looks like or is made of, so I can't really add much more to that idea.  Maybe post up a picture?

When I said "Sail 1.0" got scrapped I was being literal...     It's completely disassembled and most of the pieces got tossed.  Have to dig around my computer(s) and see if I have any pics of the old setup.

Basically, I had installed padeyes at the edges of the decking about 18 inches from the bow.  The masts are PVC with a T on the lower end.  I had a piece of garden hose threaded thru each T, a rubber ball/dog toy between them as a spacer, and then nylon cord thru the garden hose.  I had a brass marine clip on each end of the nylon cord that secured to the padeyes, so there wasn't a piece of webbing going all around the hull like the PA kit uses.  Control lines from each mast back to pulleys and cleats by the seat, and a bungee-cord arrangement that was supposed to pull them forward against the control lines.

One issue I had is that the nylon cord stretched more than I thought it would, and so there was less tension to keep the masts properly aligned.  Another issue was that the bungee didn't do a good job of pulling the masts forward, so the control lines were not tensioned. 

I did enough experimenting on the setup that I think a real mast will be much more effective...

Jim