Mirage Drive 180!

I can see wanting reverse to hold myself in gentle current and backtroll a plug, or hold against a wind in quiet water.

But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it. Pedaling a Native in reverse is an immediate shift.

what a great thread, there are some great comments on how this 180 drive might not be worth the cost.

I agree but consider this- if you like fishing in close proximity to big nasty bridge pilings with sharp growths and rusty metal things sticking out*...in tidal current with flow and eddies...and wind sometimes...and a rapidly changing bottom structure going from sand to rocks (eyes watching sonar, rod in hand, no appendages available for a paddle)**...you might agree, that in this situation, instantly clicking between forward and reverse might just seem really great thing...and did I mention you were in an inflatable boat?   )

* see recent video I posted at NWKA showing some 'relaxed, far away from the pilings' fishing...

** another potential example would be ocean fishing near reefs and rocks...

I can see wanting reverse to hold myself in gentle current and backtroll a plug, or hold against a wind in quiet water.

But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it. Pedaling a Native in reverse is an immediate shift.

just curious if you watched the Hobie video?  you just put your feet together and pull the 'cord' that is further back (closer to you).  it is basically instantaneous.

I can see wanting reverse to hold myself in gentle current and backtroll a plug, or hold against a wind in quiet water.

But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it. Pedaling a Native in reverse is an immediate shift.

just curious if you watched the Hobie video?  you just put your feet together and pull the 'cord' that is further back (closer to you).  it is basically instantaneous.

I never click on internet links, especially when the poster says it takes you to an awesome video.

Besides, if I was THAT athletic anymore, I'd still be paddling.

I'm totally buying one, though.

"But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it."

 its not on the market yet so how can this statement be said?? and said as fact?  so u know this how? pull a cord u have reverse seems pretty immediate.

"But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it."

 its not on the market yet so how can this statement be said?? and said as fact?  so u know this how? pull a cord u have reverse seems pretty immediate.

It looks pretty quick, once you get your reflexes and muscle memory trained to it, but it is a two-step process involving both feet and hands.  Yes I watched the video.  Even if the feet don't need to be positioned 'just so' to make the change (not clear from what I saw), it would still require pulling the cord.  The Native drive only requires pedaling backwards, no arm usage involved.  So it really depends on how you define "immediate" when arguing whether or not the drive would be suitable.  Me, I could have gone either way, but my knees get along way better with the bicycle style motion than the push-pull motion so the speed of reverse wasn't a big deal.

Face it, guys (& gals) who like Mirage drives will probably end up liking it. Guys who like Propels will mostly end up not really worried about it, and guys in the market have another option to try out.  Not worth getting into a Holy War over it.

"But yeah, if you really want/need immediate reverse this won't do it."

 its not on the market yet so how can this statement be said?? and said as fact?  so u know this how? pull a cord u have reverse seems pretty immediate.

I can say it because a bicycle style pedal you just reverse direction with your pedaling. You can change back and forth easy as one-two-one-two. Reaching down to pull a cord in between just won't be as fast and requires more coordination. It just does.

This is a silly debate to say the least.

"Who can switch from forward to reverse faster."  Really?   

Being the quickest at anything on a kayak isn't the point of kayak fishing, or did I miss something?

This is a silly debate to say the least.

"Who can switch from forward to reverse faster."  Really?   

Being the quickest at anything on a kayak isn't the point of kayak fishing, or did I miss something?

Thanks for spoiling it for me, guess I'll cancel the order for the 150 hp merc I was going to put on the big tuna. 

pin u r right. so is insayn.

One thing the new Mirage Drive reverse mechanism may do is discourage other kayak manufacturers from beginning to produce Mirage Drive kayaks when Hobie's patents for the original Mirage Drive expire, because Hobie will be able to say "Sure, Manufacturer X is now manufacturing a kayak with a pedal drive which is very similar to the original Mirage Drive, but this product is much inferior to Hobie's current Mirage Drive, which has a reverse."

I don't know when the various patents which currently protect Hobie's Mirage Drive expire.  But they are going to expire eventually, which will permit other manufacturers to start producing pedal drives which incorporate the claims which are currently protected by the patents.  In theory, this competition could drive down the retail price of both Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks and the competing pedal drive kayaks.   However, it seems like so far the competition from various propeller-drive kayaks hasn't driven down the price of Hobie Mirage Drive kayaks.

I'm hoping that competition from other pedal drive kayaks will force Hobie to start producing kayaks with the kinds of features found on many competing kayaks.  For example, it isn't easy to mount fishing accessories on the narrow gunwales of a Revolution.  It would be nice if competition forced Hobie to start producing kayaks with gear tracks installed as original equipment.

Why wouldn't Hobie just apply for a patent renewal? 

I'm liking the idea of a reverse even though I've probably only paddled in reverse a half dozen times over the past 5 years.

First situation is lake fishing right up against thick weeds. 

The second and the one I think will be the best use is bottom bouncing or back trolling plugs in fairly swift current.  it would be interesting to be able to face down stream, but to be able to quickly change back to forward to escape sweepers and such.  I still think facing upstream may be the safer way to go in rivers because you can keep an eye on debris coming downstream plus the fact that pedaling upstream, the rudder grabs and turns the kayak away from any danger faster than going with the flow since relative motion against the water is what allows you to turn...I think....

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I'm liking the idea of a reverse even though I've probably only paddled in reverse a half dozen times over the past 5 years.

First situation is lake fishing right up against thick weeds. 

The second and the one I think will be the best use is bottom bouncing or back trolling plugs in fairly swift current.  it would be interesting to be able to face down stream, but to be able to quickly change back to forward to escape sweepers and such.  I still think facing upstream may be the safer way to go in rivers because you can keep an eye on debris coming downstream plus the fact that pedaling upstream, the rudder grabs and turns the kayak away from any danger faster than going with the flow since relative motion against the water is what allows you to turn...I think....

Using a Mirage Drive with reverse or a propeller drive to back a kayak a few feet away from weeds or a dock will probably be fine.  But going for extended distances in reverse, or back pedaling against current for any period of time, will probably not be as fine.  I suspect that the rudder will cause the stern of the kayak to veer out of line, and the kayak to spin sideways.  There is a reason why rudders are always located at the stern of watercraft.

I'm liking the idea of a reverse even though I've probably only paddled in reverse a half dozen times over the past 5 years.

First situation is lake fishing right up against thick weeds. 

The second and the one I think will be the best use is bottom bouncing or back trolling plugs in fairly swift current.  it would be interesting to be able to face down stream, but to be able to quickly change back to forward to escape sweepers and such.  I still think facing upstream may be the safer way to go in rivers because you can keep an eye on debris coming downstream plus the fact that pedaling upstream, the rudder grabs and turns the kayak away from any danger faster than going with the flow since relative motion against the water is what allows you to turn...I think....

I've done it with the Mirage drive installed backwards in current on the Umpqua near Scottsburg to back troll, it isn't too difficult once you practice for a while and get used to how the steering works in reverse and provided you keep the kayak fairly straight, but if it does start to swing off to the side, you just stop pedaling, let the current take you a bit, get straight and then pedal again to back against the current.    I guess it's sort of like backing boat trailers down a launch, takes some practice and some people sort of can do it naturally and others would say it is a challenge...