18650 Battery Box

Nice job Rawk! I'll bet you could run an electric trolling motor with that thing! Seriously though...Those 18650's are capable of high peak AMP loads, but curious how they will do with your low AMP draw for longer periods for REAL world AMP hours. One of the biggest advantages I see is to be able to charge your batteries to at least a full 14.X Volts with a good charger. Points for ingenuity!

You have a beautiful mind Rawk, but I'm going to do what I do best, so humor me whilst I play devil's advocate.

It just doesn't seem worth the potential risks to save a measly 4 pounds.

I just weighed my 10.5 ah sla + Peli box and got 8.5lbs. A good morning dump and your boga grip vs. my fish grips and it's close to a wash. My sla is 5 years old and I can still fish an action packed weekend. I have no solder connections to let loose and no volatile gasses.

Also, you have a great deal of professional training and you're showing off shit you have yet to test in the field. Maybe you shouldn't encourage the general public to follow in your footsteps when the parts are not UL listed/certified and most folks here are not even amateur EE's.

Lastly, recycling sla's is super easy and any battery shop will pay you the core charge. While li-ion is a headache to recycle at the end of their life cycle they can present a myriad of problems if disposed of improperly.

(end of my rant)

Definitely don't stop doing what you are doing , brosephus. If nobody tried to push the envelope of innovation we would be still be scraping/chewing the fat off of sea lion skins and boiling tree sap to float our wooden frames.

I just never want to hear Mojo screaming over the VHF for anyone with an extinguisher to render aid because his wetsuit has melted into his lush forest of back hair.

You have a beautiful mind Rawk, but I'm going to do what I do best, so humor me whilst I play devil's advocate.

It just doesn't seem worth the potential risks to save a measly 4 pounds.

I just weighed my 10.5 ah sla + Peli box and got 8.5lbs. A good morning dump and your boga grip vs. my fish grips and it's close to a wash. My sla is 5 years old and I can still fish an action packed weekend. I have no solder connections to let loose and no volatile gasses.

Also, you have a great deal of professional training and you're showing off shit you have yet to test in the field. Maybe you shouldn't encourage the general public to follow in your footsteps when the parts are not UL listed/certified and most folks here are not even amateur EE's.

Lastly, recycling sla's is super easy and any battery shop will pay you the core charge. While li-ion is a headache to recycle at the end of their life cycle they can present a myriad of problems if disposed of improperly.

(end of my rant)

Definitely don't stop doing what you are doing , brosephus. If nobody tried to push the envelope of innovation we would be still be scraping/chewing the fat off of sea lion skins and boiling tree sap to float our wooden frames.

I just never want to hear Mojo screaming over the VHF for anyone with an extinguisher to render aid because his wetsuit has melted into his lush forest of back hair.

No worries as my back be mostly hair free, and if my wetsuit melted I'm betting the VHF in my PDF will be FBAR and I'll be SOL FOTS (floating out to sea) also my 2 SLA's cost less then 25% of that price. But the fireworks show would be a good one to see if it's on someone else's yak. 

Wired and strapped 4 of these packs together and I have a battery rated at 14.8 volts and 13.6 Ah.  I haven’t tested it but I did get great performance out of using only 3 parallel packs of four cells in my first configuration.  I’m thinking I’ll get at least 15 hours of run time, maybe 20 with my Garmin sonar that pulls about 0.5 amps on average.

I'm running 18650 Casung 6000 mAh in both my 5mW laser and a 100m UV diver's light and they have held up very well. These weigh in at 39.1 grams which is 7 grams less than your 3400s. You could drop down to a bank of 3 sets of these and end up with 18Ah capacity with even less total weight and space. The battery protection circuits at $10 a whack is the main deal breaker for me. And too, I've seen Li-ion meltdowns on YT with drone batteries and they burn like magnesium. Like the hover board batteries on the news.  I can just envision a "core meltdown" going right through the bottom of your yak.    Protect those family jewels if you put those batteries between your legs!

I've been using this for a couple years to run my FF... I'm not so Tech savvy.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I was using the same Anker battery, but after wires started corroding, I switched back to SLA.  They're pretty damn sturdy and I'm rough on gear.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

I was using the same Anker battery, but after wires started corroding, I switched back to SLA.  They're pretty damn sturdy and I'm rough on gear.

In my mind with all things considered the 12 volt SLA will always be king for powering electrical stuff in a kayak.  They're cheap, durable, dependable, and simple. 

I'm running 18650 Casung 6000 mAh in both my 5mW laser and a 100m UV diver's light and they have held up very well. These weigh in at 39.1 grams which is 7 grams less than your 3400s. You could drop down to a bank of 3 sets of these and end up with 18Ah capacity with even less total weight and space. The battery protection circuits at $10 a whack is the main deal breaker for me. And too, I've seen Li-ion meltdowns on YT with drone batteries and they burn like magnesium. Like the hover board batteries on the news.  I can just envision a "core meltdown" going right through the bottom of your yak.    Protect those family jewels if you put those batteries between your legs!

The following site is outrageously helpful when it comes to comparing the performance of Li-Ion cells, like the 18650.  Some cells are better for higher currents, some are better for lower draws.  Some live up to their ratings, some don't.  According to this set of testing, the performance of the Panisonic NCR18650B is very hard to beat.
http://lygte-info.dk/
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html

You have a beautiful mind Rawk, but I'm going to do what I do best, so humor me whilst I play devil's advocate.

It just doesn't seem worth the potential risks to save a measly 4 pounds.

I just weighed my 10.5 ah sla + Peli box and got 8.5lbs. A good morning dump and your boga grip vs. my fish grips and it's close to a wash. My sla is 5 years old and I can still fish an action packed weekend. I have no solder connections to let loose and no volatile gasses.

Also, you have a great deal of professional training and you're showing off shit you have yet to test in the field. Maybe you shouldn't encourage the general public to follow in your footsteps when the parts are not UL listed/certified and most folks here are not even amateur EE's.

Lastly, recycling sla's is super easy and any battery shop will pay you the core charge. While li-ion is a headache to recycle at the end of their life cycle they can present a myriad of problems if disposed of improperly.

(end of my rant)

Definitely don't stop doing what you are doing , brosephus. If nobody tried to push the envelope of innovation we would be still be scraping/chewing the fat off of sea lion skins and boiling tree sap to float our wooden frames.

I just never want to hear Mojo screaming over the VHF for anyone with an extinguisher to render aid because his wetsuit has melted into his lush forest of back hair.

Yeah, I should probably add a warning or something.

I was using the same Anker battery, but after wires started corroding, I switched back to SLA.  They're pretty damn sturdy and I'm rough on gear.

In my mind with all things considered the 12 volt SLA will always be king for powering electrical stuff in a kayak.  They're cheap, durable, dependable, and simple. 

I'm running 18650 Casung 6000 mAh in both my 5mW laser and a 100m UV diver's light and they have held up very well. These weigh in at 39.1 grams which is 7 grams less than your 3400s. You could drop down to a bank of 3 sets of these and end up with 18Ah capacity with even less total weight and space. The battery protection circuits at $10 a whack is the main deal breaker for me. And too, I've seen Li-ion meltdowns on YT with drone batteries and they burn like magnesium. Like the hover board batteries on the news.  I can just envision a "core meltdown" going right through the bottom of your yak.    Protect those family jewels if you put those batteries between your legs!

The following site is outrageously helpful when it comes to comparing the performance of Li-Ion cells, like the 18650.  Some cells are better for higher currents, some are better for lower draws.  Some live up to their ratings, some don't.  According to this set of testing, the performance of the Panisonic NCR18650B is very hard to beat.
http://lygte-info.dk/
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html

You have a beautiful mind Rawk, but I'm going to do what I do best, so humor me whilst I play devil's advocate.

It just doesn't seem worth the potential risks to save a measly 4 pounds.

I just weighed my 10.5 ah sla + Peli box and got 8.5lbs. A good morning dump and your boga grip vs. my fish grips and it's close to a wash. My sla is 5 years old and I can still fish an action packed weekend. I have no solder connections to let loose and no volatile gasses.

Also, you have a great deal of professional training and you're showing off shit you have yet to test in the field. Maybe you shouldn't encourage the general public to follow in your footsteps when the parts are not UL listed/certified and most folks here are not even amateur EE's.

Lastly, recycling sla's is super easy and any battery shop will pay you the core charge. While li-ion is a headache to recycle at the end of their life cycle they can present a myriad of problems if disposed of improperly.

(end of my rant)

Definitely don't stop doing what you are doing , brosephus. If nobody tried to push the envelope of innovation we would be still be scraping/chewing the fat off of sea lion skins and boiling tree sap to float our wooden frames.

I just never want to hear Mojo screaming over the VHF for anyone with an extinguisher to render aid because his wetsuit has melted into his lush forest of back hair.

Yeah, I should probably add a warning or something.

Nah, those of us that don't fully understand will probably just continue using what we're familiar with. My Sheetrock hanging ass isn't going to do all that [emoji6]
Thanks again for sharing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did (I think) a thorough review of all the Anker battery bricks offered in their current product line and it appears they have discontinued a brick with a 12vdc output with the exception of their "as seen on tv" vehicle jump starter with alligator clips. The form factor of Islandson671's power supply definitely looked like the most compact power solution in the smallest profile. But because they no longer make that style it gives pause to the possibility of a faulty product line that wasn't worth continuing.

As I browsed a couple of Anker 5vdc bricks on Amazon I noticed one description included an exploded view of the interior of the current Anker product line showing what appears to be the 18650 batteries rigged as rawfish has done in this DIY.

From the links you provided, I noticed there was no listing of any 6000mAh batteries and only a single GTL 5KmAh in the list. So perhaps Casung (if they are the actual mfg) is a new player in the game. At 39 grams for a 6K battery its lighter than nearly every battery on the list which all have lesser capacities. That could be interpreted two ways: either a shortcut in the mfg process cutting corners in material content/quality or an improvement in the technology and/or materials performance.

I'm an old camp supporter for now with my SLAs being cheap, easily replaceable and pretty rugged.

Awesome DIY and something to keep you busy over this cold winter    I'll be interested to hear more about the 3d printer as well since it's on my list for this year.

Awesome DIY and something to keep you busy over this cold winter    I'll be interested to hear more about the 3d printer as well since it's on my list for this year.

NOT sure on prices for those things but my toy list has a plasma cutter on the top of it, of course it's been on the list for over a year. 

LingBanger, I'm sure Rawky isn't to concerned with the added weight of the SLA batteries compared to his little battery condo, being that he is only 5 foot nothing and has 18 rod holders on his Revo, 12 of which are mounted on one Gear Track along with his topside sonar setup.   



Nice battery bank, and use of your 3D printer Rawky. 

LingBanger, I'm sure Rawky isn't to concerned with the added weight of the SLA batteries compared to his little battery condo, being that he is only 5 foot nothing and has 18 rod holders on his Revo, 12 of which are mounted on one Gear Track along with his topside sonar setup.   

 

I have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and a M.S. in Power Systems and even I let the smoke out of the wires sometimes.
DISCLAIMER:  I am not responsible if you hurt yourself or others while messing around with this kind of stuff.

Perhaps you had mentioned your credentials in a post / thread somewhere in the past and I had missed it.   From your input on past battery / kayak electronic threads, I have always concluded you knew your stuff.   I may be tapping into your knowledge for some future kayak power ideas in the future.
 I had started experimenting with battery packs based on combining 18650 cells.  By comparison my setup looks primitive so I am very humbled. 
Many seem to feel utilizing new lithium battery technology is an unnecessary risk since SLA's are proven effective and safe.   Then again there is a world of conventional boat enthusiasts that see Kayak fishing out in open waters as a similar risk when there are other means of flotation to fish from that is proven to be much more safe. 

I just never want to hear Mojo screaming over the VHF for anyone with an extinguisher to render aid because his wetsuit has melted into his lush forest of back hair.

Ugh - I can't get that picture out of my mind.  Thanks a lot, Ling Banger.