Bottom fishing setup - Rods and Reels

I honestly don't see the purpose behind anything heavier than 20-25# for typical inshore bottomfish while angling from a kayak.

Halibut, sturgeon, shark sure, maybe up to 55# braid.

Properly set drag and you'll be fine.

Like Beer Run, I'm trying to piece all these opinions together - not for me but for my Grandson-in-Law who'll be moving to Oregon next month.  He's a bona-fide fishing fanatic, but he's not a fly-fisher, mores the pity.

I thought jigging for ground fish meant you only lifted a 2-6 ounce jig a foot, maybe 18 inches, and if true, I'm still not seeing why one would use a heavy rod and reel that puts the weight right at your wrists and forearms and magnifies the perceived weight of the jig.  My confusion comes from searching for the absolute minimal weight for rods and reels  - it's a fly-fishing thing.  Some fly-fishing folks honestly believe they can feel the difference between a rod weighing 3-1/8th ounces and another rod weighing 3-5/16th ounces.  Some folks, you understand, but not me.

I'm still not sure I understand why folks would choose to use a line with a breaking strength rated several pounds or several times greater then the maximum drag their reel can put on it.  I know that's a bit contradictory because the strongest drag I can set with any of my fly reels is about 14 pounds while  most fly lines are rated at 28 pounds - and although I can get stronger, specialty fly lines for much bigger fish, I don't have much of a choice in line strength for common fly lines.  I use what's there but I wouldn't choose a 28# fly line if a 20# line was availalble.

I'm also unclear on why such heavy leaders - or are 30# or 40# or stronger leaders not all that heavy on conventional gear?  I never go  heavier than 18# Maxima Chameleon with my fly gear and most often stay with either 12# or 15# tops because it seems to me, maybe erroneously, that lingcod have pointy teeth that don't serve them well for biting through monofilament and 12# leader has proven to be strong enough to allow a lingcod to tow me around for a while and to free every fly I've jammed into the rocks, so I don't understand why I would use a heavier leader.  Well that, plus even my heavy flies are so light they suck at uncoiling heavy monofilament - and maybe that's my answer, right in front of my nose.

Anyway, as I said, I'm curious, and I understand the concern about losing a trophy fish, but for those who aren't trying to land a trophy every time they go fishing, I'd like to understand this so I can help my Grandkid's husband get started while not sounding like a total punkinhead.

The reason folks use loops to attach jigs (and flies) is because a loop is thought to allow the jig to move in a more natural manner.

I have a 1970's book by Rapala that strongly suggests we use Uni knots to attach their lures, then gently slide the knot back from the eye of the lure far enough to form a loop.  According to Rapala, the knot will allow their lure to wiggle better, then slide down and tighten against the lure when fighting a fish.  I use a Uni knot most often and so far it hasn't damaged the leader when the knot slides forward to tighten against the fly.  YMMV.

If I'm fishing a single jig, I run 20 pound braid as a mainline, attach a ball bearing swivel, then add 2 feet of 20 to 25 pound mono.  The swivel helps to counteract line twist (important when using metal jigging spoons), and provides more abrasion resistance as it scrapes over rocks.  The 25 pound P-Line CXX provides amazing abrasion resistance, I highly recommend it.

I don't do dropper loops much anymore, but when I do, I use 40 pound leader.  The heavy line is utilized for its stiffness more than its breaking strength.  When using dropper loops for shrimp flies or other weightless artificials, you want a stiff line to keep the dropper loop sticking out and away from your main line.  If you use lighter line, the dropper loop can sag, and often wraps your lure around the main line.  This is the same reason why I use 30 pound leader for tying dropper loop leaders for surf perch: if I use a lighter line, the loops wrap my Gulp sandworms around my main line and I'm no longer fishing.  I'm not using the 30 pound leader for a 30 pound perch  .

If I'm drifting big baits for lingcod (I usually drift herring, squid, octopus, greenling, etc.), I prefer 30 pound mono straight to a kidney sinker, then about 3 feet of 60 pound mono from the sinker to my 2-hook mooching leader.  Obviously the 30 pound main line is weaker than the 60 pound leader, but I'm only using the leader for its abrasion resistance.  Lingcod can sometimes inhale a bait, leaving your leader line at the mercy of lingcod teeth.  I've had enough lings saw through 40 pound leader to convince me to bump it up to 60 pound, and so far the results have been great.  The additional stiffness of the 60 pound also helps to keep the bait from wrapping around the main line or sinker.

And of course, if a big Pac halibut or thresher sharks chomps on that bait, I have a better chance of withstanding those teeth with the 60 pound leader than I would with 40.

I think rawkfish's suggestions echo my own pretty closely. I've gravitated towards using a couple feet of 50lb. flouro leader for abrasion resistance, but I have a 20lb "weak link" right above it, and only 30lb mainline. I have never broken the 20lb. link while fighting a fish (5 years now using that, talking lingcod, rockfish, and cabezon here). To each their own, but I prefer the ability to quickly snap off 20lbs with no hassle. If you pre-tie your leaders you can be back fishing inside of 60 seconds.

Clayman, I agree with the 30# mono for the dropper loops for the same reasons you noted with the added note that a traditional dropper loop is at best a 50% strength knot, and will always break at the knot somewhere around 15# give or take a few lbs.

Clayman, I agree with the 30# mono for the dropper loops for the same reasons you noted with the added note that a traditional dropper loop is at best a 50% strength knot, and will always break at the knot somewhere around 15# give or take a few lbs.

If anyone is interested in some numbers to go along with that, check this out:
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/dropper-loop-knots-on-the-ghetto-tensile-tester.44850/

Clayman, I agree with the 30# mono for the dropper loops for the same reasons you noted with the added note that a traditional dropper loop is at best a 50% strength knot, and will always break at the knot somewhere around 15# give or take a few lbs.

If anyone is interested in some numbers to go along with that, check this out:
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/dropper-loop-knots-on-the-ghetto-tensile-tester.44850/

Interesting find. I do not use droppers.  I had to many bigger fish break off.  Now I make leaders with a couple swivels in them along their length.  I can attach flies or other lures to them with a snap swivel.  The only break offs I have had since doing this are intentional when I snag the bottom and can't get my gear back. I use 25 pound mono for the leader.

I make leaders with a couple swivels in them along their length.  I can attach flies or other lures to them with a snap swivel.  The only break offs I have had since doing this are intentional when I snag the bottom and can't get my gear back. I use 25 pound mono for the leader.

I really like that idea. It gives you a lot of options. Thanks for the tip.

Now what am I going to do with all of the pre-tied dropper rigs I have? 

Interesting find. I do not use droppers.  I had to many bigger fish break off.  Now I make leaders with a couple swivels in them along their length.  I can attach flies or other lures to them with a snap swivel.  The only break offs I have had since doing this are intentional when I snag the bottom and can't get my gear back. I use 25 pound mono for the leader.

I think you and I chatted about this at one point for one reason or another when I mentioned in conversation why I moved away from tied dropper loops in favor of swivels.

Would you believe I actually started with a roll of 30# mono and tied two dropper loops about 12-18" apart with a 36" length between those and the next two dropper loops.  I made a run of about 20 sets like this where I spooled this back onto separate line spool for storage on deck.  I just unspooled a set, clipped it off, tied on appropriate terminal tackle, flies and bottom jig and went about my business.  Then came across the idea of just pre-tying 12-18" of 20# mono and attaching swivels on each end and wrapping them onto a slitted pool noodle for use.  If I chose to attach one or more to my rig, I just added a small Duo-Lock snap to the connection points.

Somewhere along the years of fishing, I experimented with Prusik knots for dropper loops.  They actually do work, but only with mono to mono lines.  Braid would not bite and hold and merely slipped.  I never did try fluorocarbon, it may or may not work.

This winter I was working on halibut leaders using “bead gear” then I figured why not downsize this to Lincod gear using 50-60 lb main leader with higher strength tippets for the bait.

https://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?p=12372218

This guy Mark Mc has a lot of great ideas.

With the breakaway at the bottom for lead this should work great for a single or double rig.  Here’s a sample tippet at top and the 60 lb leader with sleeves for 2 attachments

This winter I was working on halibut leaders using “bead gear” then I figured why not downsize this to Lincod gear using 50-60 lb main leader with higher strength tippets for the bait.

Another good idea. I've never done the crimping thing on mono. I assume you keep most of the line strength that way?

That is an interesting setup. Couple dumb questions. If you are fishing 2-4oz jigs do you need the weight dropper at the bottom? With the inline swivels, what are you attaching and how? Shrimp flies?

On the crimping thing, I have only done it for 200# bumpers for Pro Trolls because they cost $16 (Addicted Fishing video). They have been great and assume if done right would be equally effective on lighter gear.

While I am at it. Braid to Mono/Fluro connections. I have been using double Uni knots, but have been watching a ton on the FG knot and it looks to potentially be an even better connection with an even lower profile. Has/does anyone use that?

Interesting find. I do not use droppers.  I had to many bigger fish break off.  Now I make leaders with a couple swivels in them along their length.  I can attach flies or other lures to them with a snap swivel.  The only break offs I have had since doing this are intentional when I snag the bottom and can't get my gear back. I use 25 pound mono for the leader.

I think you and I chatted about this at one point for one reason or another when I mentioned in conversation why I moved away from tied dropper loops in favor of swivels.

Would you believe I actually started with a roll of 30# mono and tied two dropper loops about 12-18" apart with a 36" length between those and the next two dropper loops.  I made a run of about 20 sets like this where I spooled this back onto separate line spool for storage on deck.  I just unspooled a set, clipped it off, tied on appropriate terminal tackle, flies and bottom jig and went about my business.  Then came across the idea of just pre-tying 12-18" of 20# mono and attaching swivels on each end and wrapping them onto a slitted pool noodle for use.  If I chose to attach one or more to my rig, I just added a small Duo-Lock snap to the connection points.

Somewhere along the years of fishing, I experimented with Prusik knots for dropper loops.  They actually do work, but only with mono to mono lines.  Braid would not bite and hold and merely slipped.  I never did try fluorocarbon, it may or may not work.

Yup. We did talk about it.  I do something similar with short lengths and additional snap swivels.  I did make the mistake of attaching a shrimp fly to the highest up snap -the one connected to the braid.  That was a mistake I only made once after it snagged and I had a heck of a time breaking off. 

My younger brother and I were using the FG knot for a while for inshore fishing in Florida.  If you get it right, it is really good, but it is a real pain to tie at the kitchen table, let alone on a kayak.  We both gave up on it for the easier double uni since we would go through a lot of leaders due to abrasion from barnacles and oyster shells. 

While I am at it. Braid to Mono/Fluro connections. I have been using double Uni knots, but have been watching a ton on the FG knot and it looks to potentially be an even better connection with an even lower profile. Has/does anyone use that?

I use the FG knot anytime I'm attaching a fluoro topshot to braid, usually when I'm fishing clear water for large trout with jigs or minnow plugs.  When tied correctly, they're great knots and flow through the guides much easier than the double uni.  But it was one of those knots that I would only tie at home the night before a trip.  It's kind of a PITA to tie on the water.  On those rare days where I wanted to swap out for a fresh topshot while OTW, I would just do a double uni.