Someone didn’t clip their fish...

...or at least that’s the most likely explanation. I landed 5 nice ocean Coho in MA9 this morning and only one was clipped. Ratios from Sekiu over the last couple of weeks have ranged from 5:1 to 10:1. Given those ratios and the mortality rate of released salmon, more Coho are being killed than if the regs were to bonk your first two Coho regardless of clipped/unclipped.

Am I wrong here?

...or at least that’s the most likely explanation. I landed 5 nice ocean Coho in MA9 this morning and only one was clipped. Ratios from Sekiu over the last couple of weeks have ranged from 5:1 to 10:1. Given those ratios and the mortality rate of released salmon, more Coho are being killed than if the regs were to bonk your first two Coho regardless of clipped/unclipped.

Am I wrong here?

Very few fish are clipped manually. WDFW has automated trailers that go to hatcheries which both tag and clip fish.



As far as the Sekiu mark-rate is concerned, your numbers are off. Here are the Coho estimates coming out of Sekiu, mark-rate is ~48% since it opened, which is right where you'd expect it to be. Where are you getting the 10%-20% mark-rate numbers?



 

My ratio range is from multiple first- and second-hand reports and not intended to be interpreted as official or the product of a large sample. I don’t, however, consider it anecdotal and it is consistent with this morning’s experience.

Do all (i.e. WDFW and tribal) Puget Sound hatcheries use automated clipping? What is the error rate?

Sorry to butt in w/ a tangential, -- I'm kinda afraid to ask, but what is the survival rate of released salmon? I released a big chinook in MA10 this morning... it swam away, but it looked pretty tuckered out.

Also, if anyone is aware of the research methods used to ascertain survival rates, that'd be a cool read...

EDIT: Sorry all, that was a lazy question. The google has the goods.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNQV3D4OSB2FTJCG-nASlp_bToAJEw%3A1567900014229&ei=bkF0XbnRDcv3-gTFzK0Q&q=survival+rate+released+salmon&oq=survival+rate+released+salmon&gs_l=psy-ab.3...8486.9425..9672...0.2..0.69.507.9......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i304i39j0i8i13i30.2vPPSkrc1kg&ved=0ahUKEwi5wJDb8r_kAhXLu54KHUVmCwIQ4dUDCAs&uact=5

My ratio range is from multiple first- and second-hand reports and not intended to be interpreted as official or the product of a large sample. I don’t, however, consider it anecdotal and it is consistent with this morning’s experience.

Do all (i.e. WDFW and tribal) Puget Sound hatcheries use automated clipping? What is the error rate?

Nearly all hatcheries use the trailers. I can't speak on the error rates as that's out of my domain, but they're known to be extremely reliable. Also Sekiu is known to have a lower mark-rate as the month of September progresses, usually taking a bit of a dive mid-month, which is probably part of what your seeing/experiencing.

Given those ratios and the mortality rate of released salmon,

What is the mortality rate of released salmon?

I imagine it's highly variable based on species, location, and who is doing the releasing.

Your logic is sound, and you may be correct, but I remain skeptical. I’m skeptical of the accuracy of data derived from fishermen who are incentivized to not report accurately. I’m skeptical of some tribe’s diligence in clipping their fish when they are incentivized to not be diligent.

I’m not trying to stir the pot ...just trying to figure this out.

Your logic is sound, and you may be correct, but I remain skeptical. I’m skeptical of the accuracy of data derived from fishermen who are incentivized to not report accurately. I’m skeptical of some tribe’s diligence in clipping their fish when they are incentivized to not be diligent.

I’m not trying to stir the pot ...just trying to figure this out.

Plenty of people are skeptical of fisheries estimates and that's your prerogative, just don't threaten to run me over with a boat over it. I will say that Puget Sound salmon sport fisheries likely are the most intensively monitored sport fisheries in the world and without a doubt come under the heaviest scrutiny.

Edit: clarifying.

I hereby promise not to run your Outback over with my Outback.

Workhard -- I pulled a couple of hatchery coho this morning. I watched the video you posted and it sounds like some hatchery fish are tagged... I'd like to see if my fish have a tag. Do you have any pointers for finding it? Seems like looking for a needle in a haystack... except a lot messier!

I was being a smart-ass during the ORC earlier this summer when someone said they caught a bunch of coho and eventually caught their limit. I complained and said I only got to catch two to get my limit.  Other years I have had to filter through many fish to get two coho.  This year, I was lucky.  I think I only landed two hatchery fish I couldn't keep and one Tule I didn't want to keep at B10.  Sometimes it pays to be lucky.  If I went by my stats, I would say the ocean is full of only hatchery fish.

Workhard -- I pulled a couple of hatchery coho this morning. I watched the video you posted and it sounds like some hatchery fish are tagged... I'd like to see if my fish have a tag. Do you have any pointers for finding it? Seems like looking for a needle in a haystack... except a lot messier!

Those tags are extremely small and would be an quite an endeavor to get it out visually. If you have access to a sensitive enough metal detector you can probably point it at it's snout and it'll beep if it's there, you can the progressively half the head scanning it each time to get a small enough portion you can get the tag. You would then need a microscope to read the numbers on it.

OR

You can bring it to a sampler at one of the boat ramps. You're probably most likely to find them at Everett or Mulkiteo if you're in 9. They'll scan it and tell if it's tagged, if it is tagged they'll probably want to keep it and ask you a few questions (this tag information is extremely important and informs future fishery modeling). Ask them for a 'receipt' or 'snout label'  and they'll give you a code, in a few months after it's read you can look up information about the fish -- brood year, hatchery etc. I made a post on the topic of looking them sometime last year

Those tags are extremely small and would be an quite an endeavor to get it out visually...

workhard -

As SciGuy put it in another thread: the hatchery fish being caught right now all seem to be "mini-me" versions of Coho, weighing in at around 2 to 4 lbs, while the natives are about twice that size. Is this normal or just coincidental? If it's not normal, would the tag info help the WDFW determine the reason? bogueYaker and I have been launching from the beach at GG but we could start swinging by the marina to have our fish scanned if you think it would help. I still have the frozen bones and heads of both Coho that I caught as well.

.

As SciGuy put it in another thread: the hatchery fish being caught right now all seem to be "mini-me" versions of Coho, weighing in at around 2 to 4 lbs, while the natives are about twice that size. Is this normal or just coincidental?

Smaller coho might be resident and not ocean. I release those this time of year.