Dressing for immersion, Oregon style

I like Hooksnspears argument for.
 That is why I got my wetsuit before the boat. The most important thing is like FFTW says, being able to get back on and have fun, not freeze or cut short a good day of fishing.
 I wear shoes when I go out,
 I wear a coat when it is cold.
 Seems the logical thing to do in my mind.....wear a wetsuit and PFD while on the Big Pond. (at the least)

 Having grown up here on the PNW Coastline, I have a great respect for the Ocean, as she has taken a few Friends through the years. That respect is matched only by my love for the Ocean.
 No better way to see/do it all than from a Yak
 Stay warm and safe out there!

Hmmm. More to think about for the new guy ...
So maybe Mysterioso "underwear," a 7mm wetsuit, a jacket of some sort and then the PFD?

I don't think I agree with the Jim Sammons video though about breathable waders for our conditions. As I've said before, Kayak fishing south of Big Sur is waaay different than up here (we have a lot less sailfish).

A lot of guys at NCKA use waders.  It's north of Big Sur and has water conditions similar to the NW.  The trend got going there a long time before Jim made the video and the debate has raged the whole time.  But I'd say it leans more towards the "it's ok provided it's done right" side of the argument.

One thing we can agree on ... I don't want to see you all out there wearing jeans, ok?   

It's a fine balance wearing something that is comfortable both in and out of the water.  Some say you can't satisfy both. I was reading recently about farmer johns and how they might not be sufficient do to armpit exposure (a major source of heat loss).  I've tried 7 mm FJs and their uncomfortable on the yak.  I've tried 3 mm FJs and for the most part it will be cold in the water.  I've tried a 4/3 surfing wetsuit.  That was ok.   I've tried many combinations in between.  I've tried breathable waders, even jumped in the water with them.  Did get a little seepage.  If you're not able to get back on your kayak quickly, it will be a problem.  I now wear a drysuit, but boy can that thing heat up.  I sometimes don't wear correct insulation under it.  Shhh!!!

The point of this rant was not to give advice on what to do. There is no golden rule.  It's a balance ... between personal comfort, expense, the weather conditions that day, the water conditions, your skill, your mental comfort level, etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if you could layer up and effectively remove and replace layers when needed.  Like when you go on a hike, you start at 3 layers, take one off as the morning warms up, down to 1 as you start up a hill, back to 2 when you stop for a break.  Not going to happen, because you need to be prepared for immersion which is the worst case scenario, and can happen at any time.  Hmmm, how many of you go skiing in clothes that you can survive the night in?   Or even be comfortable for 4 hours stuck in a hole at the base of a tree.  I'm guessing not many.  Again, it's a balance.

Find that balance for you.  But please, practice in controlled conditions.  Jump in the water in what you're wearing while your partner stands by.  Please don't do this in 8 foot seas and 20 knot winds, at least not if you're new.  Reserve that for the guys trying to prove the myth that your kayak will blow away form you and that a leash is a necessary piece of equipment?  How many leash yourselves to your kayak at all times?  Yeah, I thought so.     Balance!!!

-Allen

I wear a 7mm farmerjohn without the jacket. Instead, I wear a paddling jacket. If it's really cold, then I have a 1/2 mm long sleeved hydroskin shirt I wear under the paddling jacket. I also wear 7mm booties, and hydroskin socks. You get lots of extra flotation from the wetsuit, and it makes it really easy to get back on the yak. Sometimes I also wear a pair of rain pants over the wetsuit. If it's raining, this helps with the wind chill. Hydroskin gloves are also nice if it's cold out. I have fished when it's in the forties and raining, and still was comfortable. Being in the water isn't too bad either! Another advantage of the 7mm wetsuit is the extra cushion under your butt!

Wouldn't it be nice if you could layer up and effectively remove and replace layers when needed. 
-Allen

I think the breathables probably give you the closest chance of adjustable layering. But my "need" for adjustment is more on my upper body.  My "balance" is a wicking long sleeved  undershirt against my skin, a rash guard, a fleece undershirt, the neoprene waders, another fleece layer, then the breathable (now blue) drytop. I can get rid of everything down to the bottom undershirt without too much grief on the water (assuming less than small craft advisory conditions) and put the dry top back on (worked the same way with the pink one too).  For me (emphasis on ''me") that works from air in the 30's to creeping up on 70^o. I try hard not to fish in slush, but the Clackamas can get pretty cold. The neoprene "bottom" is still pretty comfortable in fairly warm air, but I'll sit side saddle or straddle my boat to cool off plus I find those fishing positions to be really stable.

Actually, I'm guilty of wearing jeans under the breathable waders, but not often   I vary that layer according to how cold the water is. I'll usually use either fleece long johns, sweat pants, or some other quick drying/wicking material, or some combination of those. What ever it is, that layer is on for the day.

BTW: I have found all of the insulating layers at Andy and Bax on the cheap (<$20). Usually military surplus polypro.

http://www.andyandbax.com/

  I sometimes don't wear correct insulation under it.  Shhh!!!

  I'm sorry, couldn't quite hear you, what'd you say? Hmmmm,  You'll be nice and dry as you bounce along the bottom frozen solid on your way to Japan.
The only time I felt cold shock or pain from cold water was with the drysuit without enough insulation.  Again, that's exactly why I like the neoprene waders. They provide enuf insulation to allow you to get away with that kind of irresponsible behavior.    (and without having to perform the secret fish dance)

 Again, I want to emphasize that I'm not saying that the drytop/neoprene waders is the best, safest combo. I think that honor goes to a drysuit with a proper bunny suit insulation and a hood (possibly topped with insayn's survival suit), but for Oregon Stylee conditions (and NCKA for that matter) the drytop/waders can work safely and comfortably.

Reserve that for the guys trying to prove the myth that your kayak will blow away form you and that a leash is a necessary piece of equipment? 

-Allen

I resemble that remark

Wouldn't it be nice if you could layer up and effectively remove and replace layers when needed. 
-Allen

I think the breathables probably give you the closest chance of adjustable layering. But my "need" for adjustment is more on my upper body.  My "balance" is a wicking long sleeved  undershirt against my skin, a rash guard, a fleece undershirt, the neoprene waders, another fleece layer, then the breathable (now blue) drytop. I can get rid of everything down to the bottom undershirt without too much grief on the water (assuming less than small craft advisory conditions) and put the dry top back on (worked the same way with the pink one too).  For me (emphasis on ''me") that works from air in the 30's to creeping up on 70^o. I try hard not to fish in slush, but the Clackamas can get pretty cold. The neoprene "bottom" is still pretty comfortable in fairly warm air, but I'll sit side saddle or straddle my boat to cool off plus I find those fishing positions to be really stable.

If the water is 45 degrees and the air is 75 degrees, you're not removing any of those layers, right?  Dress for immersion!!!  But of course you're burning up.  That's my point, it's an unsolvable equation.

BTW, nothing says you can't wear wetsuits under waders.  You get to stay dry until you dump and then the wetsuit will provide insulation.  I don't think you'll overheat with 3mm wetsuit under breathable waders.  Combined with a paddling jacket that you can take on and off.  This is the closest I can think of right now to being able to layer.

-Allen

BTW, nothing says you can't wear wetsuits under waders.  You get to stay dry until you dump and then the wetsuit will provide insulation.  I don't think you'll overheat with 3mm wetsuit under breathable waders.  Combined with a paddling jacket that you can take on and off.  This is the closest I can think of right now to being able to layer.

-Allen

I may go with the 3mm farm john and the breathable waders with the shoulder straps removed, and the dry top and waders rolled together like dry pants do. 

BTW: I have found all of the insulating layers at Andy and Bax on the cheap (<$20). Usually military surplus polypro.

http://www.andyandbax.com/

That store rocks!  They have dry bags, lash straps, knifes, etc..... all for reasonable prices.

I have used a full body 3 mil for years and most of the time I COOKED in it.  Paddle any distance and I felt roasted alive..  I have jumped in offshore several times just to cool off I was so hot..  On the other hand get it wet (immersion or sweat) with a little breeze and you get cold quick.
   I'm going with a dry suit this year and poly pro or fleece underneath depending on conditions. I know from experience (today for instance) that I can stand waist deep for hours in the cold Wilson river in breathable waders with expedition weight long underwear and not be cold.  The Wilson is colder than the ocean in summer by about 10-15 degrees so I'm guessing polypro under the drysuit will be plenty.. If I get really hot I will take the risk and unzip the dry suit to vent heat for a few minutes.  Also without a relief zip you can be miserable!.  The thought of waders and a wetsuit makes me sweat just thinking of it.   

Is a relief zip what I think it is? This gets mighty important for older guys ...

It's exactly what you think it is!

-Allen

This gets mighty important for older guys ...

It's might important for us all. Trust me. I'm talking about women too. They make a special relief zipper for the women's drysuits.

Z

This gets mighty important for older guys ...

It's might important for us all. Trust me. I'm talking about women too. They make a special relief zipper for the women's drysuits.

Z

In a non perverted way, I'd like to see how this works in a real scenario.  Something about non moving hardware seems a bit messy.

ya gotta buy this with the woman's relief system....

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=22516

If you guys want to try a surfing wetsuit (built with extra flex in the shoulders) before you buy, you can rent them at any of the surf-shops on the coast for about $20 per day.