Kaskazi kayaks

well, there was this tugboat on Cl not too long ago...............................

jason, did they break that boat in two in a rock race, or is that two boats getting the snot beat out of them?

i like the idea of a harder shelled sot. looked at a hurricane phoenix 120 at the flagship r e i a few months back, decided it wouldnt carry my fat azz. been looking online for a new old stock or good used Current Designs Altura. still, given choices, i usually vote my pocket. kazkazi is way out of my range

That's two boats crashing in the same hole. Paul Kuthe and Bryan Smith at Buttze rapid.

Looking into my crystal ball ... I believe fiberglass (or other hardshell forms) will become more a part of SOT's and kayak fishing. 
-Allen

yep!

the real issue, is that if you care about any performance aspect other than stability initial stability, a stiffer material is preffered.

It's important that you point out that your talking about initial stability as most "real" sea kayaks have MUCH better secondary stabilty than most SOT's. I don't think even you could lay an SOT over on its ear without thigh straps.

Heck, for that matter most trapped-insides have better initial stability as well (lower CG).

once your hull warps in poly, you've lost the lines that make it perform.

Now that, along with the 15 year limit, is horse hockey. HDPE (the stuff of SOT's and Clorox bottles) has a pretty good memory. A bit of time in the sun and most dents and warps come right out.

and the boat pictured below is the original pimped out fishing SOT kayak (circa 1994) and it isn't showing hardly any sign's wear after 15 years of my abuse.



All that said, I like that Kaskazi boat and I'm developing a bad case of the gottahavit's.
Hmmmmm, perhaps its time to break out the vacume bag, some e-glass, and epoxy.

it's the lines of the hull, the big, flat planes of poly that matter, and even the smallest defect in the lines....chine, keel, waterline etc that make a huge difference in how the boat performs.

All you have to do is look at a rack of poly boats on a summer day sitting outside. they ALL sag and end up warping.

Now you know I know primary and secondary, seems you are trying to trap me in a dork off again!

Because we are talking SOT's that don't really have any lines other that blob, it isn't going to make much of a difference if it warps or not...and you're not edging, touring etc. so a blob is a blob. no contest on my end.

As for the FG vs. poly speed thing, it's not about having a fast boat, it's about having energy left to make it back home in less than cooperative conditions. in a SOT, your range is just more limited, you burn more energy pushing a beastly boat around, plain and simple.

As for the FG vs. poly speed thing, it's not about having a fast boat, it's about having energy left to make it back home in less than cooperative conditions. in a SOT, your range is just more limited, you burn more energy pushing a beastly boat around, plain and simple.

I'll give you that for paddle powered, but I think Hobie's mirage drive solved this issue (but to your blob point, their hulls also more closely mimic those of touring boats.)

Different strokes for different folks.

(but to your blob point, their hulls also more closely mimic those of touring boats.)

Not really.

-Allen

Heck, for that matter most trapped-insides have better initial stability as well (lower CG).

I don't think so.  The difference is more than made up for in width.  You need that stability in a SOT fishing kayak because you don't have your paddle in your hands.  Instead, you're holding a fishing rod.

And I agree on you comments on secondary stability.  For the most part it doesn't come into play on SOTs.

-Allen

As for the FG vs. poly speed thing, it's not about having a fast boat, it's about having energy left to make it back home in less than cooperative conditions. in a SOT, your range is just more limited, you burn more energy pushing a beastly boat around, plain and simple.

I'll give you that for paddle powered, but I think Hobie's mirage drive solved this issue (but to your blob point, their hulls also more closely mimic those of touring boats.)

Different strokes for different folks.

The hobies can move, but there still not the greatest for ocean touring. Not bad.....but not the best. And yes, the bow entry point of the hobies does resemble a touring yak, but most like a flatwater touring yak....the rest of the hull after the first foot is blob.

I'm not cutting anything down.....just sayin!

And yes, the bow entry point of the hobies does resemble a touring yak, but most like a flatwater touring yak....the rest of the hull after the first foot is blob.

That's true of most SOT's.  The bow entry resemble what you see on a lot of sea kayaks ... mostly because the front wedge is an easy shape to rotomold and make structurally sound.

-Allen

Looking into my crystal ball ... I believe fiberglass (or other hardshell forms) will become more a part of SOT's and kayak fishing. 
-Allen

yep!

the real issue, is that if you care about any performance aspect other than stability initial stability, a stiffer material is preffered.

It's important that you point out that your talking about initial stability as most "real" sea kayaks have MUCH better secondary stabilty than most SOT's. I don't think even you could lay an SOT over on its ear without thigh straps.

Heck, for that matter most trapped-insides have better initial stability as well (lower CG).

once your hull warps in poly, you've lost the lines that make it perform.

Now that, along with the 15 year limit, is horse hockey. HDPE (the stuff of SOT's and Clorox bottles) has a pretty good memory. A bit of time in the sun and most dents and warps come right out.

and the boat pictured below is the original pimped out fishing SOT kayak (circa 1994) and it isn't showing hardly any sign's wear after 15 years of my abuse.



All that said, I like that Kaskazi boat and I'm developing a bad case of the gottahavit's.
Hmmmmm, perhaps its time to break out the vacume bag, some e-glass, and epoxy.

You're right, most SOT's aren't intended for secondary, which is why they are inferior to sea kayaks in the ocean. If you can't control the rock and roll.....eventually you will roll.....upside down.

with thigh straps however, I can get the scupper pro pretty far over, but I can't side scull it like a sea kayak. the secondary on the scupper is very, very small, but it's there. It's pretty easy to roll (compared to the trident).....I think I will bring it this weekend just to horse around. haven't paddled it in over a year, and maybe someone will take it off my hands at ORC! SOT's remind me more of white water boats in that regard. the secondary is there, but the cockpit ergonomics of WW and SOT's aren't super conducive to to using the secondary for anything other than edging. I can't side scull a WW boat either.

Looking into my crystal ball ... I believe fiberglass (or other hardshell forms) will become more a part of SOT's and kayak fishing.  I've paddle a Kaskavi and other hardshell SOT's.  The feel is like nothing you've ever experienced in a plastic SOT.

We don't have to beat up kayaks any more than our SIK sea kayaker cousins do.  So why is this even an issue?

-Allen

I've been begging OK for a composite HP SEA SOT for 3 years! I've heard rumors they're trying to develop one. Even the Tarpon which I like allot has zero bow rocker, and 6 inches of wave buries the bow. I like the semi-upswept  bow on the trident, and it is more conducive to the sea, but the rest of the boat is too wide and flat for me. Most manufacturers haven't caught on to the fact that people do fish in conditions like are present on the OR coast almost every day. This aint the gulf! I think enough of us have complained about that to where we should see some ocean specific SOT's soon.

Poly kayaks can take a beating repeatedly in a single day.  Try that in FG kayak and your day or even week on the water has just been abruptly cancelled.  FG degrades over time too, maybe not as fast but I've got a FG dinghy in my yard that looks like hell.

Guy's in poly SOT's have no illusions of being speedstars, save for the Hobies, and we're fine with that.  Oil-canning is a small price to pay for having a durable and reliable boat that can go places guys FG yaks would cringe over the mere thought of.

Having said all that FG kayaks are definitely sexy looking and have their place, just not in my fleet.

There are different grade of FG and different processes used to lay it. Most American kayaks are made in China, with an infusion process and vacuum bagged. makes them lite, but delicate. Most British kayaks are hand laid in the UK and are super rugged (and heavy). Americans paddle sea kayaks in the lake, Brits paddle sea kayaks in the sea.

I would take a UK FG boat over a poly or American FG any day, hands down.

My GF dropped my carbon boat 6.5ft off the top of the 4-runner onto the pavement, and it chipped a piece of gel smaller than a dime off the stern.....to an hour to fix, and that was really an aesthetic thing, not functional. My carbon boat sailed into a sea wall with the force of 12ft surf behind it and it did NO functional damage. I drag that thing onto/over rock beaches probably 150 times a year with me+100lbs of gear in it. My buddy got high centered on a rock in 3-5ft wind waves with 200lbs of gear+him on my last SJ trip, and it just scratched the gel coat, didn't even get to the cloth.

Yeah my tarpon generally goes through waves, not over them.  It's kinda fun though   

with thigh straps however, I can get the scupper pro pretty far over, but I can't side scull it like a sea kayak. the secondary on the scupper is very, very small, but it's there. It's pretty easy to roll (compared to the trident).....I think I will bring it this weekend just to horse around. haven't paddled it in over a year, and maybe someone will take it off my hands at ORC! SOT's remind me more of white water boats in that regard. the secondary is there, but the cockpit ergonomics of WW and SOT's aren't super conducive to to using the secondary for anything other than edging. I can't side scull a WW boat either.

Aahhhh.... The scupper pro...!!   

You should bring it so those who haven't tried or seen one can. That was my first yak and in my second ever kayak fishing trip I did well over 8 miles that day very easily. Just the thought of doing 8 miles in my X-Factor is enough to make me collapse in exhaustion!

KASKAZI...sorry for opening this old topic , but the dorado for me is ..in a league of it own.. performance , build quality , and if looked after will hold excelent price for sell on ...just a pity you have to go all the way to florida to get one , im really surprised that theres no canada dealer /agent ..cos since ive been in bc ..ave never seen so many people on sit in kayaks ...and they can be very pricey !!


ahh ..miss ma wee hotpiece



if any kind person knows of a safe way to get one up from florida ...or indeed any one who has one for sale a bit closer !!  ..pm me please ..need to get back out ...paddle fitness  has gone ...apart from the work its really the reason i came to this beautifull country ....