Awesome trip to Hobuck beach near neah bay

My Tarpon is "mango."  Shark attracting colors, they say. I wish I would have gotten "sand"  "camo" or something less bright, powerboaters be damned! I wonder if I can spray paint it? "Camo overcast grey" would be good.

Paint the bottom light blue with clouds.  You want it to look like sky from underneath. 

It all looks black or grey from the bottom, it don't matter. It's all silhouetted. You are going to look like a sea lion from below regardless. My hull is red, doesn't seem to deter any fish. The Navy did a study a few years back and discovered that yellow "yum yum yellow" as they call it is the color sharks are most interested in....but it really doesn't matter because it all looks black/grey from below anyway.

The reality is that if a shark confuses you with a sea lion, you are probably going to get test nibbled regardless of what color your boat is. I was in the presence of a big shark last weekend at cascade head. Sea lions were flying out of the water....I strangely felt totally safe, not sure why, but I just knew I wasn't going to have issues, mostly because there was so much food available besides me.

http://www.rollordrown.com/shark.htm

Hey Conehead, I'm with you.  It's not the years in your life it's the life in your years.  I had a great trip out of Depoe Bay today.

... I just have to conquer my cramping. I suspect having ingested two ibuprofen before heading to the beach dehydrated me...Even though I drink plenty of H2O, I think i've noticed a correlation between ibuprofen and getting leg cramps. I hadn't taken any on the times I didn't get cramped, and always seem to get them when I do eat any. So I'm ditching that stuff until after the sessions, and doing yoga more often to keep my leg and ankles more supple.

I've never noticed vitamin I as being dehydrating.  You may want to pay attention to your electrolytes.  Try some Gatorade.

having size 14 1/2 EEEE feet i can relate to the non ergonomic issues. try finding shoes that size isn't easy.

oh man, Fred Flinstone feet eh?

naw,.just the "big house,.big foundation " principle.

doc told my parents to let me run barefoot much as possible. must be why i have so few foot problems other than size.

I thought Gatorade had high fructose corn syrup (hfcs) in it, so I haven't had any in years. I make sure I never ingest any of that crap! When I worked for the UPRR, I used to see tank cars full of hfcs sitting for days in the hot sun on sidings. I read an article once about how some of the RRs don't clean out their tanker cars as well as they should. Its an "industrial sweetener," only good for industry because its widely available and relatively cheap. I prefer honey or cane sugar.
I sincerely believe that hfcs is no good for humans. Whatever else the benefits of Gatorade are, they aren't worth having to ingest the hfcs along with it. Of course, I haven't even read the label on any Gatorade products for years since I quit drinking 'em. Has Gatorade come to its senses and ditched the hfcs yet?

I've seen some electrolyte replenishers in health food stores that are free of hfcs, but they are really expensive! I might break down and try some of those.

A couple of bananas and regular drinks of water and maybe some fruit juice are all I do. Maybe a micro brew with lunch back in the estuary and tidal creeks when in my U-12. But I mainly carry water.
I have had some of my best days of cutthroat fishing with bananas on board or in my belly.

Yep, HFCS in regular and G2 gatorade.  I try to steer clear of that stuff too.  Working on claims for diabetes all day really opens up your eyes. 

It's hard to avoid it completely, they put it in everything.

Guys, sugar is basically sugar, either glucose (blood sugar, dextrose, corn sugar), fructose (fruit sugar, levulose), sucrose (cane/beet sugar), maltose (malt sugar), of combinations of such.  Of the sugars in HFCS, about 1/2 is fructose and 1/2 is glucose.  If you are afraid of High Fructose Corn Sugar, you should know that each molecule of cane sugar (sucrose, a disacharide) is half glucose and half fructose.  Your stomach acid hydrolyzes the bond between the glucose and fructose and frees both.  So cane sugar is also HFCS, Half Fructose Cane Sugar.  Of the sugars in honey, about 1/2 is fructose, 1/3 glucose, 1/10 is maltose, and the rest are higher sugars.  Honey is also HFCS, Half Fructose Critter Sugar.

Worry about other stuff.

Then there is the myth of contaminated railroad cars. 

Guys, sugar is basically sugar, either glucose (blood sugar, dextrose, corn sugar), fructose (fruit sugar, levulose), sucrose (cane/beet sugar), maltose (malt sugar), of combinations of such.  Of the sugars in HFCS, about 1/2 is fructose and 1/2 is glucose.  If you are afraid of High Fructose Corn Sugar, you should know that each molecule of cane sugar (sucrose, a disacharide) is half glucose and half fructose.  Your stomach acid hydrolyzes the bond between the glucose and fructose and frees both.  So cane sugar is also HFCS, Half Fructose Cane Sugar.  Of the sugars in honey, about 1/2 is fructose, 1/3 glucose, 1/10 is maltose, and the rest are higher sugars.  Honey is also HFCS, Half Fructose Critter Sugar.

Worry about other stuff.

Then there is the myth of contaminated railroad cars. 

That may be, but in my opinion, there is a definite difference in the taste of products made with Cane Sugar.  Take Coke for example.  Pre-HFCS Coke was awesome.  It still is in central america 'cause they use cane sugar.  The modern US crap is just that.


Here's another reason to be concerned about HFCS "Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html

I have to disagree with you.

Please see:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322121115.htm

High-fructose corn syrup and sucrose are both compounds that contain the simple sugars fructose and glucose, but there at least two clear differences between them. First, sucrose is composed of equal amounts of the two simple sugars -- it is 50 percent fructose and 50 percent glucose -- but the typical high-fructose corn syrup used in this study features a slightly imbalanced ratio, containing 55 percent fructose and 42 percent glucose. Larger sugar molecules called higher saccharides make up the remaining 3 percent of the sweetener. Second, as a result of the manufacturing process for high-fructose corn syrup, the fructose molecules in the sweetener are free and unbound, ready for absorption and utilization. In contrast, every fructose molecule in sucrose that comes from cane sugar or beet sugar is bound to a corresponding glucose molecule and must go through an extra metabolic step before it can be utilized.

Well, I'm back, and in one piece at that.  After what was supposed to be a long weekend at hobuck with the whole family, and girlfriends in tow, I had a disappointing time. To make a long story short, things don't always go as planned, and you can't always put the fish first.

First travesty:  Forgot my wetsuit at the house, only to remember two hours into the drive "duoh!" 

Second (and worst): We took three cars, which I thought was stupid.  But halfway out on the 5 hour drive my brother calls me and says he's just totalled the car!  Had to drive all the way back to Bremerton to pick him up, added another three hours that day and stayed the night in Bremerton.  Didn't leave till the next day and had to deal with the car and fire department.  All in all we lost another day! 

We finally got there and it was beautiful, sunny, hot.  There were birds chasing huge baitballs left and right.  I was itching to get out and fish.  But the family wants to hike, and the girlfriend doesn't want to sit around and watch me fish, so I put it off. 

Still no wetsuit so the next morning I sneak out before anyone wakes up and do a walk down the Sooes river where I hear there is a King run.  Fog is THICK Every other cast I hook up with Bullheads and finally a 19" Sea Run Cutthroat, which I released   Locals said the Kings won't come in for another week.

Went back to camp, fam wants to hike again, but at least I found a guy to rent a wetsuit from http://www.wavehoundssurf.com/

By the time we got back from the hike to Shi Shi, I only had an hour on the Yak, in dense dense fog.  It was all I could do to keep my bearings with the sunset, and get back in before dark.  Didn't catch a thing!  So disappointing after so many hours of driving and knowing how many fish are down there.  Still fun as it was my first ocean going kayak experience, but next time I will go with more time, people who want to fish, and less car accidents

Hobuck is Awesome!

That may be, but in my opinion, there is a definite difference in the taste of products made with Cane Sugar.  Take Coke for example.  Pre-HFCS Coke was awesome.  It still is in central america 'cause they use cane sugar.  The modern US crap is just that.

Here's another reason to be concerned about HFCS "Study Finds High-Fructose Corn Syrup Contains Mercury"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/26/AR2009012601831.html

Taste is a different issue from safety.  I don't like asparagus, but I don't think it is dangerous.

The link never says at what level mercury was found.  Today's detection technology is so good, one can detect heavy metals such as mercury down to the femto level (that's 15 places past the decimal point).  Interestingly the study was released by The Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, a "small agriculture" advocacy group.  I found and read the original article.  

http://www.ehjournal.net/content/pdf/1476-069X-8-2.pdf

If you are worried about mercury you better stop eating fish.  From the reference below, 8 ounces of non-farmed salmon was found to contain as much as 22.7 ug of mercury.  From the reference above, if you drink a boat load of pop and other sweetened drinks you are getting a maximum 28ug/day.

http://allenpress.com/pdf/i1552-8618-27-6-1361.pdf

I have to disagree with you.

Please see:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100322121115.htm

I didn't find this as a surprise.  If you eat a bunch of empty worthless calories you are going to get fat.  I didn't see any mention of a control group of rats eating the equivalent calories of honey nor cane sugar and not getting fat.  Here is a rebuttal of the above study pointing out the same flaws I found.  And, yes the Corn Refiners Association has an axe to grind.  In this case they are correct.

http://www.corn.org/princeton-hfcs-study-errors.html

My point is not that a lot of HFCS is good for you, or that it tastes good, but that it is no more "dangerous" than other sweeteners.  We live in a world of hype and everyone has an axe to grind.  Detection technology has gotten so good that you can quite literally find anything you are looking for anywhere at some minute level.  There are detection systems that can detect single molecules and atoms.  Those grinding axes can say, "this horrible toxin was found in this evil product", and it will literally be true, but the question is, does it matter and is that horrible toxin actually a danger at that level?  The link below is to an interview with one of my heros, Dr. Bruce Ames, the developer of the "Ames Test" for toxicity and carcinicity.  Ames puts all the alarmist hype in proper perspective.  Did you know your body safely processes about a gram of carcinogens a day?  Did you also know that the vast majority of carcinogens you eat are NATURALLY OCCURRING in the fruits and vegetables you eat?  Plants are stationary beings, so how do they compete and protect themselves?  They all create a retinue of noxious chemicals with which they try to poison the ground, the air, and their predators - us.  We eat these noxious, dangerous substances every day. 

Yes, y'all have found one of my pet peeves and personal buttons   Here's the interview with Ames:

http://reason.com/archives/1994/11/01/of-mice-and-men

Demonick, thanks for the link to the interview with Ames. Pretty good interview, and I think he has his head on straight.
I still will try to avoid eating any HFCS. The interview with Ames had nothing in it that would either support or dis your claims that eating it is no different than eating any other sugars.
I don't buy organic veggies, but when i grow them myself, I use organic techniques. For example broccoli doesn't require much at all (if any!) in pesticides, so anybody paying more for organic broccoli is really wasting their money. Grapes get heavily sprayed with all kinds of chemicals. I don't buy 'em any more, and I think the people who sneak a few off the bunches in the supermarket are getting their just reward.
I do tend to avoid the stuff that i know is heavily sprayed.

I like fresh meat. I have quit eating any meat products with too much salt or preservatives, like bacon, sausage, luncheon meats, jerky, ham, etc. Only exception is a little bit of smoked salmon on occasion.
I prefer only to eat stuff that I either: kill myself (fish), know who killed it (elk meat etc gifted from a hunter friend), buy fresh, or buy fresh-frozen stuff like flash-frozen (on the boat) halibut.
You won't find anybody who won't agree that too much salt, sodium nitrate, sodium nitrite, msg, etc are bad for you, unless they sell the stuff. I don't hardly ever eat in restaurants (too expensive, and don't know the ingredients), either, and never at fast food joints.
But I don't consider myself a fanatic at all. Just eddycated a bit.
Too much of anything isn't any good. Drinking too much fresh pure water all at once can kill you.

Just a couple of decades ago, people thought that carbaryl insecticide was OK to use nearly anywhere and everywhere. Its now one of the most heavily used insecticides worldwide. Its not nearly as "harmless" as they once thought. May not be that harmful to mammals, but its toxic to fish, the aquatic bugs they live on, other invertebrates, and is responsible for lots of honeybee deaths! Big problems coming down the pike on that one, I predict!

Unlike other carbohydrates, HFCS does not stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin, which acts to quench hunger. It is processed by the liver similar to metabolism of ethanol.   Leptin is a hormone which is released by the insulin spike resulting from intake of glucose. Leptin signals a feedback loop in the brain to stop sending hunger signals, so absence of of leptin can leave you still hungry, or craving another "Big Gulp".
"Fructose  skips glycolysis (normal carbohydrate metabolism). Because of this, fructose is an unregulated source of “acetyl CoA,” or the starting material for fatty acid synthesis. This, coupled with unstimulated leptin levels, results in increased triglyceride and fatty acid levels.

  Here's from Wikipedia:
"Carbons from dietary fructose are found in both the free fatty acid and glycerol moieties of plasma triglycerides. High fructose consumption can lead to excess pyruvate production, causing a buildup of Krebs cycle intermediates.[33] Accumulated citrate can be transported from the mitochondria into the cytosol of hepatocytes, converted to acetyl CoA by citrate lyase and directed toward fatty acid synthesis.[33][35] Additionally, DHAP can be converted to glycerol 3-phosphate as previously mentioned, providing the glycerol backbone for the triglyceride molecule.[35] Triglycerides are incorporated into very low density lipoproteins (VLDL), which are released from the liver destined toward peripheral tissues for storage in both fat and muscle cells."

  I don't think fructose is bad---I love fruit, especially cherries and berries, which are rich in fructose. But they also contain other carbs, which stimulate insulin, which stimulates leptin, which tells you "stop now, you've had enough".  I rarely drink or eat HFCS, though, I like fresh food, not processed foods.  Glad Ben and Jerry use sugar in their ice creams!!  I think what's bad about HFCS is the quantity people , especially kids, ingest. I keep bees, and the fructose/glucose balance is similar to that of HFCS, but there are a lot of other elements and minerals in honey that make it a healthier choice than processed sweeteners, including raw sugar from beets or cane. The problems with HFCS, including the rise in obesity in kids  related to fructose is due to the fact that  the amount being consumed is so large, and HFCS  is highly refined and has been stripped of natural antioxidants and other phytochemicals that are present in natural honey or fruit.  But a Barq's root beer once in a whie ain't gonna kill anyone....if you're drinking 6 to 8 soft drinks a day, you're gonna get fat.  Seems obvious.

AUGUST 11, 2009

Ummmmmm, this thread has definitely gone on a tangent!  From Hobuck to Shark Food to High Fructose Corn Syrup!