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Topic: On Capsizing  (Read 6956 times)

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  • Don't ask me how I know!
  • Date Registered: Nov 2006
  • Posts: 1704
Please Note: Safety Rant Mode Engaged

If we are ever going to be anything other than a fringe lunatic group, capsizing must become a non-issue. One of the scariest things about our sport is that our boats are not very stable. On the other hand, one of the greatest advantages of SOT yakfishing is the ability to capsize and completely recover.

I’m personally trying to kick my level of participation up a notch and do some training and guide work and I’ve found good river safety training for guides, but not much specifically geared toward SOT’s and certainly not SOT fishing. And looking around at what “flatwater” guides offer their clients in safety training scares the heck out me.
 I went on a guided evening tour with my wife’s board of directors (read: older people and grandkids) and there was no mention of how to get out of the boat if it turned over.
  In another anecdote one of my co-worker’s told me about a weeklong sea-kayaking trip in the Gulf of California with a very reputable company and they never practiced a wet-exit.
Perhaps they just didn’t want to scare their clients, but it seems that at least some airline style “how to get out of the boat” speech would have been in order.
  I’ve also read that the number of entry’s in kayak fishing tournaments in Texas and the Northeast have skyrocketed over the last couple of years (from 5 or 10 a couple of years ago to over 100 for Jamaica Bay) and that someone capsized, nearly drowned, and had to be rescued.

Now, capsizing in pretty much any conventional fishing boat is, at best, the end of the day, and at worst, a tragedy that kills you and possibly others in your rescue. But it shouldn’t (can’t) be that way in ours. This has been one of the main arguments I have had to contend with in discussing yakfishing in conventional fishing circles.

“What if your boat turns over?”
My standard response is “I roll it back over, climb back on and check my bait”
 
That might sound a bit smug (because it is) so smile when you say it ;). But it’s also a fact. I don’t get in my boat without expecting to swim. That means dressing for complete immersion and being able to re-board in deep water without loosing your hat.  You must expect to be dumped and then you can be pleasantly surprised when you don’t. In other words you need to more than prepare for that contingency, you have to expect it.

We really need to think about our sport more like white-water kayaking or rafting than conventional boat fishing.  In white water kayaking, capsizing is expected and one of the first skills you develop is a roll (actually, that’d be sometime after you learned how to do a wet exit).  But that’s about where the analogy ends. I’m not suggesting that we all have the ability to crash through rock gardens and develop a bulletproof roll for your SOT, just that you are able to get back on when (not ”if”) you fall off.  Climbing back on requires a bit more effort than falling off, but it’s nowhere near as challenging as learning to roll and as an added bonus, you’ll rarely ever have to pump out the boat (unless your me ::)  )
 I’m not saying that there’ll never be an emergency, but just falling over under “normal” circumstances should not be one of them. 
 Please don’t take this as any kind of personal flame. In fact, BIG kudos’ to you for posting about what has happened to a lot of folks (me), but they were too embarrassed to talk about it.  It just really bothers me when I hear folks who are overly concerned about stability, wakes and getting rolled. That screams to me “under-prepared” and really makes me very uncomfortable.
Deep-water re-entry is a skill, but does not require months of practice to perform adequately. It is waaay too easy to learn to re-board your boat with just a little practice!  It really can be self-taught, but it most certainly is not something your want to learn to perform when you have to do it.
One interesting side effect that I’ve found when I do dump is that I feel WAAAAAY more stable than before I went in. It probably has something to do with trying too hard to “not” dump.  So maybe we should all jump into the water before we go out? Ok, maybe not ;D

The other issue is how we dress. This sport grew up in Southern California where the ocean and lakes are a lot more,,, pacific. The difference between the air and water temp is smaller, and generally currents and tides run smaller as well. But that runs out at about Monterey and by the time you cross the 45th parallel all bets are off. Everything is super-sized up here; currents, tides, surf, and FISH [well, at least the Halibut] and all require a bit more preparation and equipment.  I don’t want to scare anybody off, but fishing up here is at least Kayak Fishing 102 vs. 101 (the entry level course).  That does not mean that everybody can’t play. Just know that it is less forgiving than southern waters and requires a few things that you might be able to get away without in warmer climes.
  You have to dress for the water and not the air. In the Great Pacific Northwest that can be especially challenging in the summer when the air is warm and the water isn’t.

 Dressing for immersion in the summer is something that I’m still working out. I got a breathable drysuit this spring, but that can be a bit much in the summer (in addition to the fact that it makes me do the secret fish dance to get in and out of it)  I usually wear an inexpensive shorty wet suit for most conditions and as base in colder weather.  That’s worked for me in 90 degrees in the marsh in Louisiana and February in the Clackamas (with additional layers). A farmer john would probably be a better base up here though.
  I’ve also been playing with breathable and neoprene waders, but your must have a chest belt and a breathable dry-top to minimize the amount of water that gets in when you do. The belt is especially necessary with breathable waders. No, waders will NOT sink you when they are filled with water. But trying to climb back on board with full waders is like climbing on with big buckets of water strapped to your chest and legs, and swimming with them on is like swimming with a drift chute (again, ask me how I know ::)  )
Whatever you wear, a PFD is an absolute must. I’ve been using an inflatable, but I may need to rethink that after some discussions I've read (and a video that used to be here)


All of this is to say we need to train ourselves not just to recover from a capsize, but to be prepared such that you are comfortable enough to keep fishing (which is why we are there in the first place).

Ok, Rant Mode Disengaged.

NOTE 2/3/2011 the video links that were oringally in this post dissapered here are a couple more :

http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,4219.0.html




« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 11:47:16 AM by Fishesfromtupperware »
"For when sleeping I dream of big fish and strong fights"


boxofrain

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Good points made FFTW!,
 I am gaining more experiance in re-boarding almost every time I hit the Ocean! I can stand a 13'-4" yak on its nose in the surf (probably a hoot to see from the beach!). I can now plan my BAIL at the shallows near the shore and avoid the yak from taking me out at the knees, which is better than when I started this sport.
 The first time I dumped it in the Ocean I had on all my gear, full wetsuit, booties, and an inflatable PFD. I had to lunge twice to get up and over the boat from the unexpected weight of that gear. However, with the thought of GW's frequent our area from time to time, I seemed to have an energy burst, The FEW SECONDS I was in the water was just that , a fewe seconds only.
 I now have no fear of dumping in open water and after the experiance I do feel more comfortable with the thought of dumping and it doesn't worry me at all, I expect to!!
 I am also replacing my inflatable PFD after reading a post on the NCKA site with about 20 good reasons NOT to have one!
 Thanks for the tips, good read.
the memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime.


polepole

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Excellent post FFTW.  I'm going to let it sink in for a while before adding my own thoughts.

-Allen


Wannabe

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Thanx Wali. Your cautionary note provides impetus for us noobies to de-condition ourselves to what comes natural: avoiding capsizing. Gotta admit, I've only practiced re-entry one time, and that was many moons ago, back when I was a bit more spry.

If we end up in the bay this weekend (or even in the salt for that matter) I've gotta make sure I still have re-entry mastered.

--
Mike
--
Mike

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Spot

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Amen FFTW! 

A friend of mine passed along some words of wisdom to me recently:
"The ocean is out to kill you.  Be prepared for the attack."  He went on to elaborate, saying:  "Even now, it's eroding the cliffs and beaches slowing working it's way toward your home......To KILL YOU".
 :o

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Pisco Sicko

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A great post, FFTW. Off the top of my head, I can't see anything to quibble about. I very much agree with your assessment of personal gear.


polepole

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"What do I wear?" is probably one of the most asked questions I get.  FFTW says it best when he says "dress for immersion".  That means different things to different people.  Next time you go out, jump in the water and immerse yourself for 15 minutes and tell me how you feel after that.  If you're shivering too hard to talk, well, you weren't dressed appropriately.  There are so many choices as to what is best and no right answers.  Add to that the complexities of staying comfortable in the air as well as the water and it becomes downright hard to decide.

What gear do I have hanging in my garage?  Well, let me first state that I've collected this gear over the better part of 15 years so don't be overwhelmed with my list.  I'm sure some of you have more that I do.

1.5 mm equivalent diveskin
2 mm shorty farmer john wetsuit
2 mm long farmer john wetsuit
3 mm long farmer john wetsuit
3/4 mm full wetsuit
7 mm farmer john wetsuit
breathable chest waders
full dry suit (just got this year)
And various paddle pants, paddle jackets, and booties.

I've worn almost all of the above at various times this year.  I'd have to say that the best all around piece would be the 3 mm long farmer john wetsuit.  If I had to pick only one of the above, it would be this.  I think I've only worn the 7mm farmer john once.  I bought that for diving.  The 2 mm shorty gets most of it's use on lakes, although I've layered it under the waders before.  The 3/4 wetsuit is a surf suit.  It's pretty good on cooler days.  I bought the dry suit specifically for AK, where we were in big water far away from any help.  I wasn't taking any chances there.  However it was pretty comfortable in all but hottest, windless days, so I'll probably be wearing it more.  I did spend extra for the Goretex which is lighter weight and does breath more than other alternative.  The waders were a stepping stone to me getting a drysuit.  I like to stay dry, especially on long days or multi-day trips.  Being wet and slightly cold can sap the energy from you very fast.  On "big" days I'll go more conservative.  On calm days I'll dress more for comfort.  I usually have paddle pants and jackets over the wetsuits.

I don't practice deep water re-entry nearly as much as I should.  Heck, I haven't done it once this year.  Shame on me.  Next time I go kayaking I'm jumping in at the end of the day.  I think at Moutcha we'll have a practice session, ok?  I will say that I have in the past done a fair amount of ab diving off a yak so I'm very much at ease in the water and re-entering a kayak.

Practicing water skills?  At Sombrio a few weeks ago I spent some time just playing in the surf.  It's actually a lot of fun.  I used to white water kayak and surf kayak, however I will tell you that breaking waves on a beach is very challenging.  I still get caught off guard by the hydraulics of it.  So next time you go through surf, please spend a little bit of time practicing as part of your day.

I want to stress one point that FFTW makes that is very wise.  If you're worried about boat wakes, you ARE under-prepared.  Practice, practice, and practice until you get comfortable with this.

I want to make a point of my own.  It's a pet peave of mine whenever someone says there is safety in numbers.  While there is a little bit of truth to this, in reality, we might be fishing together, but I might be 1/4 mile away from you.  I might as well be on shore at the closest bar, tossing back a beer, and perhaps watching you through binoculars, although I'll probably be watching the game on TV.  While I won't hesitate to help out anyone in need, please make sure you are capable of taking care of yourself in any situation you put yourself in.  It's a whole other thread to talk about safety gear on board, so I'll leave that for another day.

Now, I hope we haven't scared y'all too much.  Go out, have some fun, push yourself a little (how else do you learn), and have some more fun.

FFTW, I love this line “I roll it back over, climb back on and check my bait”.  I hope you don't mind if I use it every now and then.  I'll give you full credit.   ;)

-Allen


Tom B

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I really appreciate all of the input on safety and dressing properly. Per an earlier post, I capsized recently and wasn't properly prepared. Experience is a great teacher, not only personal experiences, but also listening to experienced folks like many of you.

I learned a great safety lesson several years ago when I visited the shipwreck museum at Whitefish Bay on Lake Superior in Michigan. When you enter the building, they play the old Gordon Lightfoot song "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald," which describes a freighter sinking during a winter storm in the 60's, killing all of the Sailors. They describe the cold, windy weather that makes Lake Superior one of the most dangerous bodies of water in the world. But as you start looking at the many wrecks, it turns out that over 50% were collisions that occurred in calm conditions during the summer. The primary causes for almost all shipwrecks, even the storm-related ones, were pilot error and mechanical failure, and could have been prevented with proper preparation.

I'm thinking about a farmer john wet suit rather than my usual breathable waders. When I'm out on the Sound, I like to get off my kayak and fish from the beach. Is a wet suit OK for wading in the winter? What kind of footwear do you wear?

Thanks to all

Tom

 


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bump

Figured it was time to bring it up again.
"For when sleeping I dream of big fish and strong fights"


bsteves

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Thanks Wali, a very timely bump given the upcoming safety clinics.
“People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”

― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh


amb

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Thanks for all the information.  It came in rather timely as I capsized for the first time yesterday.  ( I'm kind of new to this...)  Sure didn't plan on it, but tried to be prepared in that I had on a life jacket, nothing in the boat to loose, and the paddle on a leash.  This wasn't deep water but some good current.  Anyway, it was good that it happened the way it did because now maybe I'll pay alittle more attention.

The video on re-entry into the kayak was very helpful.  This whole forum has been helpful.  I appreciate it - amb


kallitype

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The video is no longer playable.
  Great post, good food for thought, thankS!!!
Never underestimate the ability of our policymakers to fail to devise and implement intelligent policy


bsteves

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I wonder why the user took down the video?

Here's a decent video of some self rescue..
[youtube=425,350]QA4ueYubnBE[/youtube]

If you have knee braces you can actually eskimo roll a SOT kayak..
[youtube=425,350]UTcBE8PXwwg[/youtube]

and

[youtube=425,350]cOVmv_KYZnA[/youtube]

And finally another good skill to have is learning to get into a kayak from a dock
[youtube=425,350]r4sMRNiwPnU[/youtube]
“People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”

― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh


goldendog

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I Finally did it!

I took the Caper, along with the seat and paddle, out to Woahink Lake today to work on capsize recovery. I was wearing my Bare farmer john, booties, and a NRS paddling jacket, along with my PFD.  Oh, and also a hat. I started out by swimming out into the lake to try and get drenched. I was surprised on how long it took for the water to get inside the suit. I started out next to shore, and eventually ended up out in the middle of the lake. Over a period of about and hour, I fell out, tipped over, and stood up and jumped out of the kayak at least a dozen times. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get back in the boat. Really a piece of cake! I also crawled around from the bow to the stern and tested just how far I could go before the boat went over. It's amazing how stable the little yak really is! Granted it was a calm day, and the water was about 65 degrees, it was a good first time experience. The only problem I had was with one of the factory tie down cleats. Every time I pulled myself back on the boat, that cleat ended up hitting my thigh in the same spot. It feels like someone hit me in the leg with a hammer. The cleat has to go!. Also, I learned that a sponge would be very useful in removing the extra water that didn't drain out the scuppers. All in all it was a lot of fun and I would encourage anyone who hasn't done it to go out and give it a try. It's much easier than it looks in the videos!

Dave

PS I didn't even lose my hat!
Fishing is much more than fish.  It is the great occasion when we may return to the fine simplicity of our forefathers.  ~Herbert Hoover


bsteves

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Good job testing out your gear and getting some safety practice in Dave.  It's amazing how a little practice will really help you stay calm and collected when and if you ever need to perform a real life self rescue.

Brian
“People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.”

― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh


 

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