Jackson Coosa

ok I'll give up the cowboy boot thing. more like overalls and bare feet

Everybody down here wears crocs and you can't get anymore Southeast than this without swimming.

ok I'll give up the cowboy boot thing. more like overalls and bare feet

Everybody down here wears crocs and you can't get anymore Southeast than this without swimming.

dang you guys are nit-picky . i wear boots and overalls and chew cud. won't do crocs though.

NOOK:

Okay, now we have a baseline to work from.  Put your ideas down on paper/drawings and do something about it.  If you feel that your new SOT kayak design will be a big seller,  then get it to market and reap the rewards of a great design.  However,  if you feel that it would only fit the needs of yourself and/or just a handful of people, well then you just answered your own question as to why "fishing" SOT kayaks are made the way they are....for the masses. 

I do hear what you are saying, but I think you said it clearly yourself that you personally would rather adapt your fishing to your preferred boat than your boat to your fishing.  With that, you would have to deduct that the current array of SOT's available are built just fine for the majority of those looking to kayak fish, no?

Flip side.

If I were into touring in a kayak.. I would probably go with a "touring" kayak, and not bother to tackle the variety of fishing that I like to do while touring.  I don't tour,  thus owning a "fishing" kayak for fishing makes more sense to myself and probably many here.  Like the car/truck scenario I prefer to drive a truck.  Actually have three 4x4 truck/SUV's and zero cars.  I'm not as concerned about going fast, or have great handling and maneuverability in my vehicles.  I want the ability to haul, tow and go off road.
   

dang you guys are nit-picky . i wear boots and overalls and chew cud. won't do crocs though.

That's because its cold in the great Pacific Northwest and they are not properly designed for your conditions. 


BTW: You make this waaay too easy. Are you familiar with the origin of the coveted burro butt sombrero?

Mark: Didn't you mention something about putting this dog to sleep?

Ahh, never mind.  Spirit on debate!

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good afternoon!

 

NOOK:

Okay, now we have a baseline to work from.  Put your ideas down on paper/drawings and do something about it.  If you feel that your new SOT kayak design will be a big seller,  then get it to market and reap the rewards of a great design.  However,  if you feel that it would only fit the needs of yourself and/or just a handful of people, well then you just answered your own question as to why "fishing" SOT kayaks are made the way they are....for the masses. 

I do hear what you are saying, but I think you said it clearly yourself that you personally would rather adapt your fishing to your preferred boat than your boat to your fishing.  With that, you would have to deduct that the current array of SOT's available are built just fine for the majority of those looking to kayak fish, no?

Flip side.

If I were into touring in a kayak.. I would probably go with a "touring" kayak, and not bother to tackle the variety of fishing that I like to do while touring.  I don't tour,  thus owning a "fishing" kayak for fishing makes more sense to myself and probably many here.  Like the car/truck scenario I prefer to drive a truck.  Actually have three 4x4 truck/SUV's and zero cars.  I'm not as concerned about going fast, or have great handling and maneuverability in my vehicles.  I want the ability to haul, tow and go off road.
   

I agree. I see the sport of modern kayak fishing as pretty new. Just like how modern sea kayaking started with Fol-boats and has evolved over the years with modern technology and use from short, wide, flat and ruddered to long, skinny, rockered, and skegged, SOT's will eventually get more niche specific. Because it's young, and mostly mass producers are the only ones manufacturing, they want it to be as general and wide appealing as possible. I get it. I agree.

I don't agree that means things are currently at the peak of their potential, or that we should just stop trying to build a better boat. That's all I'm saying. I don't want to be a boat builder. I do want to push designers to keep thinking.

BTW: You make this waaay too easy. Are you familiar with the origin of the coveted burro butt sombrero?

Mark: Didn't you mention something about putting this dog to sleep?

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good afternoon!

 

I agree there's been too much bitching and whining in this thread but if you can sort thru the garbage, there's some good meat to be had.  Thus, it lives on.   

-Spot-

There isn't much or any secondary stability in Hobies. Doesn't seem to be that much of a problem because primary is so high, but I'd like to see a little more chine. the bow is all sea kayak but the rest of it is pretty flat. I personally prefer more bow rocker than I have seen in any SOT. Other than that, pretty perfect.

For sure. A Prowler/Trident bow on the Addy is what I've been wishing for for years.

Z

took it out for a quick spin this morning and was pleasantly surprised. It paddled alot like a WW boat. Every stroke sent me turning and I had to adjust to more of a WW paddling style to keep it from yawing from back and forth.
 
It was slow, of course, but the bow has good rocker and good volume, and with that responsiveness I really think this might be the perfect moving water/class 2-3 fishing SOT.
 
I did not find the CG to high when the seat was in the lower position, felt really stable, and had good secondary stability on edge, and actually responded well and quickly to edging.
 
stable for standing, some pretty cool features available like their anchor deployement/retraction device etc.
 
I would take this boat steelhead fishing on the clack or sandy any day.

Nanook,   thank you for the solid review on the Jackson boat.
There are a few of us that are VERY interested in this boat for both creekin and bassin and hoping to demo soon.
I saw a few drifter references and I thought of that boat too. It was a pretty good stand up platform but you sat so low you were usually sitting in water and it was tough to get a high blade angle so the boat wanted to wander.
Looks like Jackson did a great job of getting a paddler elevated on a what looks like a very smart creek barge.
I personally would have hoped for a shorter boat but your WW boat comparison is very exciting news!
do you think the seat is too high for legs straps?
class III water? wrong boat
how long was the paddle you used? or would you want to use

while im on the topic of paddles. where is my paddle that easily transforms from SUP stick back to my kayaking paddle?
Please tell me there is more out there than the carlisle.

thanks again for your review and expertise
oh
If your kayak starts to pearl on a wave, its not the boats fault.

took it out for a quick spin this morning and was pleasantly surprised. It paddled alot like a WW boat. Every stroke sent me turning and I had to adjust to more of a WW paddling style to keep it from yawing from back and forth.
 
It was slow, of course, but the bow has good rocker and good volume, and with that responsiveness I really think this might be the perfect moving water/class 2-3 fishing SOT.
 
I did not find the CG to high when the seat was in the lower position, felt really stable, and had good secondary stability on edge, and actually responded well and quickly to edging.
 
stable for standing, some pretty cool features available like their anchor deployement/retraction device etc.
 
I would take this boat steelhead fishing on the clack or sandy any day.

Nanook,   thank you for the solid review on the Jackson boat.
There are a few of us that are VERY interested in this boat for both creekin and bassin and hoping to demo soon.
I saw a few drifter references and I thought of that boat too. It was a pretty good stand up platform but you sat so low you were usually sitting in water and it was tough to get a high blade angle so the boat wanted to wander.
Looks like Jackson did a great job of getting a paddler elevated on a what looks like a very smart creek barge.
I personally would have hoped for a shorter boat but your WW boat comparison is very exciting news!
do you think the seat is too high for legs straps?
class III water? wrong boat
how long was the paddle you used? or would you want to use

while im on the topic of paddles. where is my paddle that easily transforms from SUP stick back to my kayaking paddle?
Please tell me there is more out there than the carlisle.

thanks again for your review and expertise
oh
If your kayak starts to pearl on a wave, its not the boats fault.

ZING! got me in my own BS. It's not the boat. you're right. some boats do make some things easier though. I think mostly what happens to me is I get used to the little bit of effort it takes to make my boat do what I want it to do, then I hop in another less HP, I'm not used to it, and I get clobbered a few times, get frustrated, and go back to what's comfortable to me. I do believe that with almost every boat on the planet, if you spent enough time in it and got used to it, you could handle it with relative ease.....most of the time, not always.

I think the Coosa is plenty short. I would really like to see them add a drop skeg, like the LL Coupe or Remix XP.....any shorter and the capacity would likely be to light for the GP.

I think thigh straps would work totally fine. The only thing that concerns me is that the seat is held on by a cam strap, and leaves a little room for wiggling. I would maybe shim the sea with foam or something so it really stays put in WW. There are no attachment points for thigh straps, but you could add them pretty easy. There are some recessed screw holes along the gunwale by the cockpit that I think might be for outfitting the cockpit with Jackson specific padding, but not really sure what that's for yet. Bottom line is yes. with the seat in the low position thigh straps would work great.

I think this boat would be fine in class 3 WW, but it mostly depends on the person driving it. It's super maneuverable, responds to edging/carving and has a highly rockered/volumed bow, so, without having run any WW in it, it's flat water performance and hull shape seem to indicate it would do well in WW. I'm not really sure how the hull sits in the water, it's not a planing hull, but it's not really V'd either. mostly flat on the bottom with multi chines.

In theory, it should do better than other SOT's in WW. The Liquid Logic coupe was pretty good too though, and had a drop skeg. the coosa is way better for fishing than the coupe though.

I used a Werner Camano 230CM and would really have liked a 240 or 250cm. I felt I was reaching with the 230cm. My ideal paddle for this boat would be a 240cm Werner Cypress.....has more surface area than the camano, but not so much that you'd feel like you were paddling in pudding.

All I've seen for a convertible yak/sup paddle is the carlisle, but I haven't been looking that much. I'm sure there is something better out there at this point.

If you ever want to risk giving an Adventure a test run let me know. 

I've tried them and they are sweet. If we are ever at the coast at the same time, I'd love to take it in and out through the break to put some of my personal questions to rest. It really made me realize I have no lower body strength because I was petered out after a few minutes of fast pedaling.

wow. Now im even more stoked to try this boat. Im hoping I dont have to sell my mini-X to make room for a new creeker but if its that nimble with all the features....
I cant speak anymore about the boat until Ive paddled it (with a 240) but Im still stuggling with the classIII thing. I agree that its the paddler at the helm that really matters and I realize that folks interpret WW differently, but to paddle a barge like this in the chaos that is III? hmmmm  not me, but Ill be at the ready with the camera.
here is a retro photo of some III. Im on the left, panicking.
thanks again Nanook  very inspiring

that looks especially gnarly for class 3. The pucker factor would be super high, and swimming likely, but as far as SOT's go, I think it would be the best bet. an aire inflatable would be better still

Great thread, please don't deep-six it.  Healthy debate is fine, we don't need consensus.
   BTW---I saw a wild design SOT by some cat who designed his ideal boat, and made it
out of stitch&glue marine plywood. Bizarre design, but it was just what he wanted.

that looks especially gnarly for class 3. The pucker factor would be super high, and swimming likely, but as far as SOT's go, I think it would be the best bet. an aire inflatable would be better still

Naw.  If that's the hole I think it is, it looks a little more gnarly than it really is.  It is very short, has an S turn into it which messes people up, but then flattens out below it.

Terry, that's the Troublemaker at the end of the Chili Bar to Columa run, right?

-Allen

Great thread, please don't deep-six it.  Healthy debate is fine, we don't need consensus.

Exactly!

-Allen