Jackson Coosa

Drew,

I had a good feeling that's what those threaded holes were for. I'd like to see pics of the accessories. I saw the anchor system and thought that was really smart. the rod storage, lots of things on this boat are really well thought out in my opinion. I can see your point about leaning forward, I guess I'm thinking more of getting hit by metal corners when I get crushed in surf or WW carnage. Worst case type stuff.

No doubt the most interesting SOT to come out in a long time, and one I'm personally really happy to see because it's the first true niche fishing SOT. White water fishing SOT.....check. I'm sure as this boat catches on you guys will make one with a larger capacity. Have you had some 250+lb dudes + gear paddle it in WW? How did it do? What is the largest size person you could put in this and still get ideal performance out of the boat?

My critiques are really just questions and ideas. It's nice to have a designer respond directly, even if it's a guy who got molested by a goose.. I've got a couple more for you:

1: Have you thought about an adjustable skeg option, you will increase flatwater tracking in windier conditions and it won't interfere with the anchor stuff at the stern....
2: Is there a trolley option for the anchor system Jackson is offering?
3: All of the mounts are molded for RAM. isn't there a mold that would work for both RAM and Scotty?

Thanks for your response!

one more question:

Which plastic is the coosa made from linear or crosslink?

The only real modification I would make would be an actual anchor davit/roller.  After watching the anchor function in the video's it is a neat concept but would not cut it in your average NW steelhead river, not enough weight and not enough drag, for anything but very slow water.  Most folks I know use a 10lb or even a 15 lb lead pryamid.  The design does look like it would be slick in very slow river flows and lakes/ponds.

To me the seat set up looks fine for most water conditions encountered on typical NW rivers (while fishing).

The only real modification I would make would be an actual anchor davit/roller.  After watching the anchor function in the video's it is a neat concept but would not cut it in your average NW steelhead river, not enough weight and not enough drag, for anything but very slow water.  Most folks I know use a 10lb or even a 15 lb lead pryamid.  The design does look like it would be slick in very slow river flows and lakes/ponds.

To me the seat set up looks fine for most water conditions encountered on typical NW rivers (while fishing).

yup. I just keep rolling down the river with a 5lb claw and 15mph wind....just in portland harbor in a low pro sea kayak. the chain idea is cool, it kind of reminded me of when I was a kid in CO, we'd fill inner tubes with rocks and drag them behind the raft to slow our drift. I think that was more the idea than actually anchoring.

my other concern with the anchor system was having to clip a cable rather than cut a rope in the event of needing to ditch. I think in reality for bigger water you will still have to rigg your own anchor system. how do you toss that anchor free anyway?

it would be nice to see something beefier than the pad-eyes I'll be installing for attaching thigh straps.

it would be nice to see something beefier than the pad-eyes I'll be installing for attaching thigh straps.

How many of you guys (other than NANOOK) actually use thigh straps when on the river?  Short of getting a new kayak, this is probably the single biggest thing you can do to improve your river yak handling.

-Allen

I bought some at the end of last summer, but I have yet to install them.

Not currently for the "river yak" (FishnDive) but I really want to get some for the Adventure in the salt. I think it would allow me to tackle some larger surf with more control.   If I were to pick up a Coosa or other dedicated river boat I would add them for sure. 

If any of you have had the opportunity to watch "Yaknitup" move around on top of his X-Factor, this Drew Gregory has nothing on him!

If you say so...    To me its just about getting on the water and having a good time, not "who is better than who."   

It's all about being on the water for sure.
Both you and Yaknitup have some great balance, way more than my unstable body could muster on a sheet of plywood.   

Bring that yak out here for the Oregon Rock fish Classic and we'll see if we can get some friendly Mini Olympics going for added entertainment. 
- Some kayak monkey antics between you and Yaknitup in the bumpy swells.
- A long awaited offshore race between NANOOK and Pelagic Peddler.
- Puking contest.
- Maybe a drysuit shimmy shimmy dance.

BTW - the WW video you posted shows the drainage of the tank well really good.  Cool concept!

Ooops, guess I should have been paying more attention to this thread! 

Kayak jousting is certainly something we need to try out.  I'm thinking Hagg Lake would be perfect.

Drew, that is one siiiiiiiiick 'yak! Keep up the good work!

Not currently for the "river yak" (FishnDive) but I really want to get some for the Adventure in the salt. I think it would allow me to tackle some larger surf with more control.   If I were to pick up a Coosa or other dedicated river boat I would add them for sure.

Then you should definitely try it.  Back in the mid-90's we used to take SOT's with thigh straps down Class III waves with the same effectiveness as more normal WW kayaks.  Shoot ... I can't recall the brand anymore.  I'll have do dig up some pics to see.

Nanook keeps talking about chine and edges.  But the chine and edges don't really come into play much if you can't get the kayak over on them.  Thigh straps are necessary to do this.

-Allen

1: Have you thought about an adjustable skeg option, you will increase flatwater tracking in windier conditions and it won't interfere with the anchor stuff at the stern....
2: Is there a trolley option for the anchor system Jackson is offering?
3: All of the mounts are molded for RAM. isn't there a mold that would work for both RAM and Scotty?

1.  Yes, we have thought about a skeg option.  We have one on our new touring boat called "The Journey" that works well and we may try to incorporate it as an option.  A lot of the accessories and options on the boat will be determined by what you guys say during the first 6 months of this boat being on the market so keep up the feedback. 

2.  We do not offer a trolley system because since we are touting it as the first boat with features that cater to the river angler we did not want to put something on the boat that is not as safe in the river.  A trolley usually does not reach all the way to the end of the stern nor the front of the bow.  If anyone that doesn't know any better drops anything (chain, anchor) off a trolley that is not coming off the exact end of the boat then when it catches it will wobble and they will be going in the drink!  Having said all that obviously you could add one of your own. 

3.  The mounts are not molded for RAM or Scotty.  They are recesses for a receiver called Tallon Systems, which has an adapter for both RAM and Scotty.  You can go to their website and see that.  So, no matter if you are a RAM or Scotty guy all of your stuff will work on the Coosa, and can be taken off whenever you are fishing an area when the accessories are not needed so your deck can be clean and flush.  Like maybe you are just taking the family on a recreational trip, fishing a small pond, or like a lot of river anglers here east of the rockies the mounts and accessories are not needed, and in fact are a hazard.  So, using the Tallons in essence make the boat a little more versatile for targeting different species in different environments. 

4.  The Coosa is made from the linear, which is not as "hard" and can be plastic welded God forbid you get a hole in your Coosa. 

5.  I agree something beefier for thigh straps would be nice.  However you get to a point in production with small things like this and as a manufacturer you have to ask yourself will this tip the needle in sales?  How many people will actually use thigh straps with this boat?  My guess is maybe 5-10% and that is just not enough too add something for it, due to what it would do to the overall price which everyone (whether they use thigh straps or not) will have to pay.  The parts probably don't cost too much but you also have to take into account the time it takes to install them.  Then, think about 4 or 5 more little things like that and the price is no longer $1000 for the elite and $800 for the standard but $1300 for elite and $1100 for standard.  With that big an increase in pricing you may lose sales, when the whole time those who really want these other things (anchor trolley, skeg, thigh strap attachments) would just do it themselves anyway.  So, that is our logic anyway - to give the anglers a healthy base of features to work with, but not too specific that it ups the price to much and turns some people off because they don't even need or want those features.  So, although in theory it sounds nice for a boat to pop outta the factory exactly as an angler may want it, you really don't want that because it will cost you and the manufacturer more money. 

I do think most anglers out there should give all companies a break because A.) when assessing them you probably are always only considering your needs and your type of water and think "why don't they do this, or that" but fail to realize "this" or "that" could be the opposite of what some other angler would want.  It makes designing a boat tough because you want it to be broad enough so that it sells, but niche enough that it stands out from the rest of the generic, broad kayaks that really aren't helping anglers. 

What is so challenging in this process is this...How many different types of motor boats do we have for fishing in all the waters in the world for so many different species?  Bass boats, large offshore boats, flats and inshore boats, canoes and other small boats etc.  So, trying to make a kayak that can actually do several of those tasks, in 1/50th of the space is daunting to say the least!  Good news for you guys is that with boats like this that are more niche specific it will force other brands to counter and in the end the consumer is the winner.  I applaud Jackson for taking the risk they did in not just believing in me to put together a product that would sell, but just in general actually taking a kayak angler (not an engineer) to design the boat.  This will surely be duplicated by other brands and if a pure NWKA dude gets on board with someone then his design will surely be heavy on being a great NW boat, but I guarantee you the powers that be at his factory will not allow it to be only for that niche, and he will have to make sure it excels in other areas as well so that it makes enough financial sense for them ever to make it. 

Rawkfish, and everyone who has posted any appreciation of what Jackson and I have done on this boat, thanks for the kudos.  It is our pleasure to see anglers out there enjoying their time on the water to the fullest.  Now, about that kayak jousting competition! 

About the heavier weights being used in the rivers there.  I suppose this is due to them being a very high volume of water that is just really driving you downstream?  If so, that is a tough call because it really sounds even dangerous to be dropping anything off the stern (of bow) of the boat.  Do you not sway back and forth when the weight catches?  Do you have something to cut your rope with handy if need be?  We really advise (as you can see on the video during that segment) against dropping it in rapids or high volume of water.  Of course, we just advise of this and people will do what they will do. 

As far as the weigh vs. losing performance question I am not even positive on exactly if there is an exact number that I can mention.  I do know that it takes more than 250lbs for water to come up through the scuppers and that plenty of 6'5, 240lbish folks are standing and fishing out of it with no problem.  How they are doing in WW I am not sure.  Most around these parts don't really even run the whitewater over class II, but rather portage.  The weight capacity for this boat is around 375 due to how much volume we have added to it.  I would just assume the more weight you put in, the more you start to lose in performance in a very incremental way per each pound.

Drew,

Most people don't use the trolley system for anchoring on a river.  A lot of guys here make up a drift boat style anchor that goes straight out the back, which minimizes swaying.  For example, see ... http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,3905.0.html

-Allen

ya know, guys, you really gotta give Drew some respect. He's learned to be objective and not biased towards the Coosa as being a do all end all solution, and he's got thick enough skin to handle to barbs and off handed comments you've thrown at him without blowing up at everyone for disagreeing or tossing him crap.

the more this boat gets discussed the more interested i'm getting in it too.

another nice thing, he's willing to put one out for demo/ testing. or at least ask the maker to do so. ( i may be wrong, but i think that was hinted at) that's more than a certain north of the border maker has done with it's pontoon yak that's finally in production, but only available thru REI 

Drew,

Most people don't use the trolley system for anchoring on a river.  A lot of guys here make up a drift boat style anchor that goes straight out the back, which minimizes swaying.  For example, see ... http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php/topic,3905.0.html

Allen, I agree and that is exactly the point I was bringing up.  We are touting the boat as a good river boat, so why would it have a trolley if no one in the river that I know of uses one?  It can only be a liability and lawsuit waiting to happen if we included something that was hazardous to the river angler. 

WR, thanks.  I am certainly not too proud or naive enough to think that I have designed some ultimate, perfect fishing boat.  If you can't take criticism and learn how to improve from it then you'll never make it in any area.  Anyway, I strive to get the boat as perfect as possible and that is why I am on numerous forums across the country gathering feedback and trying to listen to the consumer myself.  You never know if we might make some other versions and if so I want to know where I can improve, especially in the areas of kayak fishing I am not as familiar with.

We are definitely offering for any kayak angler to test one out.  All our dealers carry a demo and it sounds like Nanook will know where you might could test it out.  I can only assume he is with Alder Creek?